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Topic: 2015 Move 6 (Read 6195 times) |
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ikalyoncu
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2015 Move 6
« on: Sep 15th, 2015, 9:10am » |
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5s has been finally played
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deep_blue
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Re: 2015 Move 6
« Reply #1 on: Sep 15th, 2015, 12:26pm » |
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Before I forget it, this is the list of moves that are so far considered interesting enough to be included in the vote (will be modified while the discussion):
- Mb3n Ra2n Ra3n Ra4n
- Ee5e mg5e Ef5e Rb1n
- Ee5e mg5e Ef5e Ra2n
- Ee5e mg5e Ef5e De2n
- Ee5e mg5s Ef5e Ra2n
- Ee5e Ra2n Ra3n Ra1n
- Ee5e Ra2n Ra3n Rb1n
- Ee5e Ra2n Ra3n De2n
- Ee5e Ra2n Ra3n Rg1n
- Ee5e Ra2n Ra3n Ra4n
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| « Last Edit: Sep 20th, 2015, 3:10pm by deep_blue » |
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Hufflepup
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Re: 2015 Move 6
« Reply #2 on: Sep 15th, 2015, 5:47pm » |
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What about Mb3n Ra2n Ra3n Ra4n? The camel threatens a pull and replace on the horse, whilst the advanced rabbit makes it difficult for the silver elephant to threaten our camel.
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clyring
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Re: 2015 Move 6
« Reply #3 on: Sep 15th, 2015, 8:02pm » |
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I don't have time to look carefully soon, but it occurs to me that the silver camel and rabbit look very uncoordinated if we push the former to h5. Thought I'd throw that out there.
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I administer the Endless Endgame Event (EEE). Players welcome!
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ikalyoncu
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Re: 2015 Move 6
« Reply #4 on: Sep 16th, 2015, 1:00pm » |
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I like clyring's idea. It seems that silver would be forced to protect f3 with its elephant quite soon, after which our attack in the west would be much stronger. The fourth step could be either Ra2n or De2n.
About Hufflepup's suggestion, even though the steps are in accordance with our plan of attacking northwest in general, I feel timing is a bit off. After something like 6s ed4w mg5n hh4n Rh3n, silver seems OK to me. I am not sure if this is silver's best reply or sharp would play in this fashion, though.
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SilverMitt
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Re: 2015 Move 6
« Reply #5 on: Sep 16th, 2015, 7:19pm » |
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Pinning the camel to the edge is interesting. I'm not sure that the silver elephant would have to defend f3, though. It might be able to make counterthreats in the west.
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browni3141
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Re: 2015 Move 6
« Reply #6 on: Sep 16th, 2015, 8:55pm » |
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I like aspects of all moves suggested so far. Another that should be evaluated is pushing the camel south.
A sequence like
6g Ra2n Ra3n Ra4n Mb3n
6s hh4n Rh3n mg5n ed4w
does not worry me. This is exactly the type of position we were looking for when we played Rh2n Rh1n, right? We are giving up an easy rabbit pull and likely eventually a rabbit for the sake of attack.
Against the mh5 a2n idea, d4www b3n is an annoyance. We would have to save the camel and silver would have some options to continue such as attempting a horse trade which we need to evaluate.
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Hufflepup
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Re: 2015 Move 6
« Reply #7 on: Sep 17th, 2015, 3:21am » |
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Pusihing the m east shuts down silvers immediate attack, but I can't see it forcing silver to defend f3 any time soon. If anything pushing the m east makes it more difficult to threaten a capture in f3. With browni3141 proposed response by silver d4www b3n we would need to spend the next couple of turns at least defending against silvers threats to the camel, whilst being unable to create any counter threats of our own. Our elephant may well be forced to move w in order to protect the M in which case pushing the m east has just wasted a move.
Pushing the m south with Ee5e mg5s Ef5e Ra2n would allow silver to reply with Hg3s mg4s ed4e ee4e. Silver now has a good attack on the f3 trap, and it is difficult to see how we could take a good hostage in that position.
If silver played ed4w mg5n hh4n Rh3n in response to Mb3n Ra2n Ra3n Ra4n we could reply with Dd2n Dd3n Ee5e Ef5e. Our threats to the silver camel now look significantly stronger than golds threats to ours.
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ikalyoncu
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Re: 2015 Move 6
« Reply #8 on: Sep 17th, 2015, 8:49am » |
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After 6g Ee5e mg5s Ef5e Ra2n 6s Hg3s mg4s ed43 ee4e, I think we can get good hostage prospects at g2 with 7g Eg5s De2n Cf2w Hg2w. So I don't think diving into g3 with the camel is silver's best option at 6s.
After 6g mh5 Ra3, 6s d4www b3n spotted by browni seems really awkward and I don't like that 6g anymore.
I liked Dd2n Dd3n steps by Hufflepup, which enables a safe retreat for our camel. So, 6g Ra5 Mb4 seems much better to me. But we should also prepare something against 6s mg5s mg4n Hg3n ed4w.
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chessandgo
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Re: 2015 Move 6
« Reply #9 on: Sep 17th, 2015, 10:44am » |
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After
6g Mb3n Ra2n Ra3n Ra4n
6s ed4w mg5n hh4n Rh3n
we might be able to ignore silver's threat:
7g Ee5e de6s de5s Ef5w
In any case we should be fine, the rh6 in particular prevents silver's perfect flip to g5.
Clyring's idea is interesting. To achieve anything from there, we would have to play Eg5sn hh4w Rh3n (assuming silver's elephant can't do any damage in the west), with the hope to force silver's elephant to cover f3, and then place our Elephant on g4 if silver's camel pushes to h4 to make progress towards f3. Something like:
6g Ee5e mg5e Ef5e Rb1n
6s re8s
7g Eg5s Eg4n hh4w Rh3n
7s ed4e ee4s Rh4s mh5s
8g hg4w Eg5s Rg1n Mb3n
For browni's answer, we're looking at:
6g Ee5e mg5e Ef5e Ra2n
6s ed4w ec4w eb4w Mb3n
7g Rb1n Rb2n Mb4e Mc4s
7s ea4e eb4e ec4w Mc3n
8g Dd2n Dd3w Mc4e Md4s
8s hb6s hb5w eb4n eb5n
and seriously not liking the horse trade? How about 9g Ec5? We could also prepare for 6s with:
6g Ee5e mg5e Ef5e Rb1n
6s ed4w ec4w eb4w Mb3n
7g Rb2n Mb4e Mc4s Mc3e
7s hb6s hb5s ea4n hb4w
We're still not liking the horse trade (?) but Ec5 is still an option?
It seems to me that 6g pushing the camel south might lose 4 steps, two for us playing a camel south step that sharp will play anyway, and 2 for the east-west Elephant dance when we have to move back to f4 to defend f3. In a similar vein I think I'd rather play something like 6g Ee5e Ra2nn (Rg1n/Rb1n/Ra4n). If sharp commits to f3, we have our b-file attack ready. If sharp flips the Rh3 to g4 on 6s we can flip the camel to f4?
Overall, I'd say we're still in a position where both sides are flexible and not wanting to over-commit. If we still think our Ha6 is an advantage over sharp's hh4, then a slow move like Ee5e x x x makes sense.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 17th, 2015, 10:58am by chessandgo » |
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chessandgo
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Re: 2015 Move 6
« Reply #10 on: Sep 17th, 2015, 10:58am » |
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on Sep 17th, 2015, 8:49am, ikalyoncu wrote:| After 6g Ee5e mg5s Ef5e Ra2n 6s Hg3s mg4s ed43 ee4e, I think we can get good hostage prospects at g2 with 7g Eg5s De2n Cf2w Hg2w. So I don't think diving into g3 with the camel is silver's best option at 6s. |
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silver's elephant would go to e3, not f4 on 6s.
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SilverMitt
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Re: 2015 Move 6
« Reply #11 on: Sep 17th, 2015, 4:38pm » |
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I like the Ef5 step generally. I can also see the reasoning behind advancing the a2 rabbit to a4, but not a5, on this move. For the 4th step, though, I might prefer advancing the a1 rabbit over b1 or g1.
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Heyckie
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Re: 2015 Move 6
« Reply #12 on: Sep 18th, 2015, 12:56pm » |
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I'm not even registered to vote in this, but I've been following the game and would like to ask how about De2n as a fourth step? Say 6g Ee5e Ra2n Ra3n De2n? (or 6g Ee5e mg5e Ef5e De2n). Maybe it's bad; if so I'd like to know why.
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Hufflepup
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Re: 2015 Move 6
« Reply #13 on: Sep 18th, 2015, 2:15pm » |
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Quote:| I liked Dd2n Dd3n steps by Hufflepup, which enables a safe retreat for our camel. So, 6g Ra5 Mb4 seems much better to me. But we should also prepare something against 6s mg5s mg4n Hg3n ed4w. |
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Something like Dd2n Dd3n Ee5e Ra1n looks like it would stop this attack.
An alternative countermove by silver would be:
6s: ed4e ec4e Mb4n X.
After this is we run away with the camel silver is going to gain several steps on us. If we played
7g: Mb5e hb6s Ha6e Dd2n
silver can recover control of b6 fairly easily, so I'm not sure if we would accomplish anything.
I'm thinking a slower developing move like Ra2n Ra3n Ra1n Ee5e might be better.
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ikalyoncu
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Re: 2015 Move 6
« Reply #14 on: Sep 18th, 2015, 2:16pm » |
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on Sep 17th, 2015, 10:44am, chessandgo wrote:
It seems to me that 6g pushing the camel south might lose 4 steps, two for us playing a camel south step that sharp will play anyway, and 2 for the east-west Elephant dance when we have to move back to f4 to defend f3. In a similar vein I think I'd rather play something like 6g Ee5e Ra2nn (Rg1n/Rb1n/Ra4n). If sharp commits to f3, we have our b-file attack ready. If sharp flips the Rh3 to g4 on 6s we can flip the camel to f4?
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I want to point out that after 7s ed4e Rg4n mf4e hh4s, silver horse reaches h3. Given that a couple of moves ago we considered placing our horse on a6 and preventing silver horse to h3 a slight advantage to us, flipping the camel to f4 doesn't help us in this variation.
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