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NIC1138
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The killer app!
« on: Jun 28th, 2007, 6:01pm » |
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Guys, I went to a great lecture today about the Mozilla Firefox browser, and I had this great idea: we must try out to develop an arimaa client based on a mozilla extension!!
I'm suspecting that with SVG and javascript we could perhaps create a great application. It would be awesome!...
I never programmed an extension before, and I loathe java and javascript. But on the other side, I love SVG, and I love mozilla... So the idea looks fantastic to me right now.
I know some other folks here program in java... And Omar of course knows one thing or two about programming arimaa clients in flash. And they say that the mozilla + SVG + javascript combination will be totally able to replace flash for good by the end of the year. My guess is that it is already capable for our case!
This is great because perhaps it unites everyone... I'm a C++ programmer, but I'm totally hooked on to this idea. I guess java and flash developers might perhaps give it a try too. It's also great because this thing would be completelly multiplataform, automatically avaiable to windows, that is a totally alien platform to me, but seems to be extremelly popular in the arimaa community.
What do you say? Who wants to give it a try??... If this is possible, and if this time we get more then one person working on a single client, I believe we can finally create the Awesome and Robust Arimaa Klient! (ARAK is my first name suggestion already  )
Plus, it has the awesome side effect giving and incentive for you guys who still don't use Mozilla, to finally stop using Micro$osft IE!... Forget about this junk, boys!!... It's time for some XXI century technology here!!! 
Who is with me?? It's now or never!!!  As we say in Brazil, "now it either goes, or it cracks"!!
PS: I don't have the faintest idea if this is even possible yet!!!
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nbarriga
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Re: The killer app!
« Reply #1 on: Jun 29th, 2007, 4:50am » |
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I would really prefer a multi-platform multi-browser client. I don't think everybody here uses mozilla. Remember there is also opera, and lately safari is catching a lot of attention, and I like the variety. If everybody switches to firefox, for me it would be /almost/ as bad as now that everybody uses IE.
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arimaa_master
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Re: The killer app!
« Reply #2 on: Jun 29th, 2007, 5:21am » |
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Mozilla firefox RULEZ 
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nbarriga
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Re: The killer app!
« Reply #3 on: Jun 29th, 2007, 7:13am » |
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If this is going to turn into a flame war I'll start by stating that Opera is the greatest browser ever and all the others sucks!!!
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NIC1138
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Re: The killer app!
« Reply #4 on: Jun 29th, 2007, 12:52pm » |
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Well, the idea is not to replace the official flash client... It's just like any other platform-restricted client would be (as my GTK++ client almost was, and others...) It's just an alternative. But an alternative that runs in many OSs, just needing to install a browser that is fully compatible with the existence of other browsers in your machne.
By the way, Flash was incompatible with my machines for a long time, only in the last years this thing started working allright (altough we've been discussing exactly about wether it is actually working or not! ). SVG + JS + DOM + XUL tends to be web standars that IE and Opera should adopt sooner after Mozilla.
Plus, it's not about having a big one-for-all official client, but a (small) set of clients that work 100% for few platforms... Should this client get done, we would have a large number of machines able to run arimaa. (even Commodore64, they say!  ) And I would be free to remove flash from my machine!!...
Of course, being just an alternative, as many other projects tried to be, the official client will still tend to get new improvements sooner, dictate the paradigms, and etc... I don't want the responsability of doing an official client like Omar, it's too much for my young shoulders!
I do confess that part of my motivantion is creating such a great client that would make everybody fall in love for Firefox, SVG and JavaScript! This is becoming the ultimate alternative for Flash, and is all based on XML stuff... And you don't have to MIGRATE to Firefox...
I didn't know anything about JavaScript. I tought it was a dumbed-down version of Java. These links here and here that I read yesterday after posting the last message just changed my life, and now I'm even more excited about learning this stuff!! 
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nbarriga
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Re: The killer app!
« Reply #5 on: Jun 29th, 2007, 1:58pm » |
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Well, if it was my choice(and it's not because I won't code a single line of code ) I'd go for Java webstart. Like the KGS go server does. Links for the ones that don't know it:
Official site:
http://www.gokgs.com/
Java webstart application: (you need Java 1.5 or higher I think)
http://files.gokgs.com/javaBin/cgoban.jnlp
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| « Last Edit: Jun 29th, 2007, 1:58pm by nbarriga » |
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NIC1138
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Re: The killer app!
« Reply #6 on: Jul 1st, 2007, 11:56pm » |
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Well, don't hijack my thread then please!...  Make a "looking for Java programmers" thread somewhere else!! Good bye! So long!...  Gonna miss you!... 
Allright, I had never programmed with this thing, but managed to do something in these last days. Now I'll have to stop for a while. But here is a screenshot so perhaps I can cheer up someone else.
first ARAK screenshot
It's a Firefox extension. When installed, the "tools" menu gets a new option. When clicked, this option brings this "board window"... this window has 4 stone pictures, and has the official arimaa patented colour... When the bottom left elphant is clicked, it prints the message 'oi!', that protuguese speakers will identify as a common salute.
I found it pretty fun to program!!... The interface is a XUL file, which is an XML document that describes the page, just like HTML. The programming part is Javascript, that gets loaded inside the XUL. Many of the characteristics can also be in a separate CSS file... I'm setting the size of the stones there, for example (I set it for 12 milimeters!) The color is set there too...
Anyway, it would be great if somebody else was willing to try out... It requires a bit of knowlege, of course... But it looks pretty fun to me to use this thing!...
Plus, it's intended for this kind of application! Silly graphical interface that talks to webpage!... Only that it's not a proprietary and "closed" protocol like flash, but an open-standards XML thing that works Right Now, with the (arguably ) best browser in the Solar System!...
No programmer candidates?? I won't be able to develop this thing alone for some weeks now... I might come back just when Firefox 3 comes out!
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omar
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Re: The killer app!
« Reply #7 on: Jul 2nd, 2007, 12:37am » |
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I alway perfer trying to do things in a platform/browser independent way. I really hope that eventually Javascript + SVG provides a platform and browser independent solution for the Web. But I don't know if it will happen soon. I still see flash going strong for at least a few more years.
Last year I wanted to do the next Arimaa client using only Javascript. I was able do the animation of the pieces in Javascript, but for sound I still had to use a Flash stub since Javascript has no native support for sound. Also for maintaining a socket connection back to the server I was going to have to use another Flash stub. I tested that out a bit with the javascript chat client, but it wasn't working too well. I've finally decided to do the next Arimaa client in Flash again and am working on it now.
One thing you should test out is to see if you can control starting/stoping sound files from the program and if you can use sockets for exchanging bidirectional data with the server. Also check to see how easy/difficult it is to control animation (and how smooth it looks). If you can find a solution that can do all of these things in a platform/browser independent way and is also an open standard, please let me know. I've been waiting for it for years.
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NIC1138
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Re: The killer app!
« Reply #8 on: Jul 2nd, 2007, 2:13am » |
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on Jul 2nd, 2007, 12:37am, omar wrote:| If you can find a solution that can do all of these things in a platform/browser independent way and is also an open standard, please let me know. I've been waiting for it for years. |
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It's coming!... And the more people like us fight for it, the faster it will come! I'm serious, I started this project because I went to a lecture by Asa Dotzler, one of the guys from Mozilla!... He told me Firefox 3 will be the "Flash Killer"!!... 
By opening sockets you mean using that http-based communication, or another way to talk to the server??...
I wasn't even thinking about nice sounds and animation yet... My idea was really to make just an alternative for the Firefox / Linux enthusiasts amongst us (me and... ehr hummm.. )...
Anyway, I'm trying to do this. Expect my report in like 2 months from now. Agent NIC over.
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omar
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Re: The killer app!
« Reply #9 on: Jul 26th, 2007, 1:20am » |
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on Jul 2nd, 2007, 2:13am, NIC1138 wrote:
By opening sockets you mean using that http-based communication, or another way to talk to the server??...
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The current client uses http, but it not the best way to do it since http is based on a request response paradigm; and the response is expected to be returned fairly quickly. I would like the future client to use a persistent socket connection where both sides can send data to the other at any time.
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PMertens
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Re: The killer app!
« Reply #10 on: Jul 26th, 2007, 5:00pm » |
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that way we at least will immidiatly know about discos
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