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Topic: Bot_Loc not on bot ladder (Read 1531 times) |
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mistre
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Bot_Loc not on bot ladder
« on: Aug 20th, 2008, 9:48am » |
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All of the Bot_Locs are gone from the bot ladder. I don't know if that was a conscious decision or there is something wrong.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Bot_Loc not on bot ladder
« Reply #1 on: Aug 20th, 2008, 11:26am » |
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I hope that they are being replaced by bot_Loc2008. The old versions were always a pain because Loc could get despondent and time out. The new version (supposedly) gets despondent and resigns instead. That will prevent considerable confusion and annoyance to newcomers working up the ladder, because a win by time doesn't count for the ladder, but a win by resignation does (should).
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aaaa
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Re: Bot_Loc not on bot ladder
« Reply #2 on: Aug 20th, 2008, 11:56am » |
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Relevant thread
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Tuks
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Re: Bot_Loc not on bot ladder
« Reply #3 on: Aug 20th, 2008, 1:20pm » |
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wow, how did i miss that !
i did notice how few blitz bots there were and now i know why, two are gone 
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BlackKnight
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Re: Bot_Loc not on bot ladder
« Reply #4 on: Aug 20th, 2008, 2:10pm » |
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Loc 2007 and 2008 are basically the same, except that the 2008 version has an "opening book". It tries to find a "relatively" similar position in the data base of all games played by humans before the date of the 2008 championship, and then tries to make a move that creates a position as close as possible to the position that resulted after the human player made his move. From time to time this leads to strange moves like deliberately sacrificing pieces (not as handicap) or missing one-move captures.
I think this is the only difference between the two versions, and therefore the 2007 version might actually be stronger. And so, both of them should not time out. I'm happy if the older versions disappear from the server.
I will not make any changes on Loc anymore but instead - like Omar also suggested - Rat will play in the next championship.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Bot_Loc not on bot ladder
« Reply #5 on: Aug 20th, 2008, 2:17pm » |
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on Aug 20th, 2008, 2:10pm, BlackKnight wrote:| I think this is the only difference between the two versions, and therefore the 2007 version might actually be stronger. |
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Oh, then it is too bad Omar accidentally mislaid Loc2007. It would be nice to have the stronger of the two in the ladder, if not both so that we can experience the difference.
Quote:| I will not make any changes on Loc anymore but instead - like Omar also suggested - Rat will play in the next championship. |
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That's great news! I'm sure Rat will be very different from any engine out there today, and that is more fun than two slightly different versions of the same bot anyway.
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BlackKnight
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Re: Bot_Loc not on bot ladder
« Reply #6 on: Aug 20th, 2008, 2:50pm » |
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on Aug 20th, 2008, 2:17pm, Fritzlein wrote:
Oh, then it is too bad Omar accidentally mislaid Loc2007. |
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I just checked, I still have the original code that I submitted in the end of December 2006. I could either send it directly to Omar or upload and compile it again. Whatever would be easier for Omar would be fine with me.
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omar
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Re: Bot_Loc not on bot ladder
« Reply #7 on: Aug 21st, 2008, 1:15pm » |
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I had made some changes to the ladder about a week ago. Forgot to announce it. Basically took out bots that were losing on time. The ladder does not allow you to advance if the bot times out.
It just occurred to me that since 3rd repetition is now ignored by the server rather than being a condition for lose, the bots which don't know about the repetition rule could appear to time out now.
I might need to change the ladder rule so that even if the bot times out you can advance past it.
Gerhard, I also have a copy of Loc2007; initially I thought I had lost it, but just found it in a backup directory. I will set it up.
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| « Last Edit: Aug 21st, 2008, 1:17pm by omar » |
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BlackKnight
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Re: Bot_Loc not on bot ladder
« Reply #8 on: Aug 21st, 2008, 10:33pm » |
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Thank you, Omar!
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omar
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Re: Bot_Loc not on bot ladder
« Reply #9 on: Aug 28th, 2008, 12:52pm » |
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I added Loc2007 to the bot ladder. Also reorganized the bot ladder. Took out the CC bots since they take long time to move. Took out Clueless2005 to reduce the number of bots in the ladder and also since the ladder already has Clueless2006. The whole ladder appears on one page now rather than being divided into sections. Also changed it so that if the bot loses on time the player gets to advance.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Bot_Loc not on bot ladder
« Reply #10 on: Aug 28th, 2008, 3:17pm » |
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I like the streamlined and unified bot ladder. It was an interesting idea at one time to have all previous version of all bots available for all history, but that put a lot of near-repetition into the ladder, and would in any case be unsustainable after ten or twelve computer championships.
I look forward to seeing the 2008 versions of Zombie, sharp, and OpFor appear in the ladder.
It will be interesting to see what level BombP1 finds when it is no longer privileged by being on Level2. Will it settle in higher or lower than, say, LocBlitz?
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mistre
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Re: Bot_Loc not on bot ladder
« Reply #11 on: Aug 28th, 2008, 5:29pm » |
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on Aug 28th, 2008, 12:52pm, omar wrote:| I added Loc2007 to the bot ladder. Also reorganized the bot ladder. Took out the CC bots since they take long time to move. Took out Clueless2005 to reduce the number of bots in the ladder and also since the ladder already has Clueless2006. The whole ladder appears on one page now rather than being divided into sections. Also changed it so that if the bot loses on time the player gets to advance. |
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You might want to reconsider and use the Clueless2005 bots instead and take the 2006 version off. The 2006 version is either really slow (P2) or timeouts frequently (Blitz). Clueless2006p1 is a decent bot that plays fast and differently enough from the 2005 version, so I would leave that one on the ladder in addition to the 2005 version.
I agree that Zombie, Opfor, and Sharp would make nice additions to the ladder, but can they play at decent speeds (move every 10-15 seconds?) I personally don't like to wait a minute between moves when playing bots...
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aaaa
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Re: Bot_Loc not on bot ladder
« Reply #12 on: Aug 29th, 2008, 4:52am » |
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The idea of having the script delay the response of a bot doesn't make any sense to me. I suggest getting rid of it or at least setting it to 0 by default and with the bots on the server so as to speed up the P1 bots.
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| « Last Edit: Aug 29th, 2008, 5:08am by aaaa » |
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omar
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Re: Bot_Loc not on bot ladder
« Reply #13 on: Aug 29th, 2008, 8:31am » |
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on Aug 29th, 2008, 4:52am, aaaa wrote:| The idea of having the script delay the response of a bot doesn't make any sense to me. I suggest getting rid of it or at least setting it to 0 by default and with the bots on the server so as to speed up the P1 bots. |
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If the bot moved in less then 5 seconds (or whatever value is set in the bot config file; I usually set them to 5 seconds) then a delay is added by the script so that the move appears to take 5 seconds. If the bot took more thinking time than this, no delay is added by the script.
This is to prevent two very fast bots from hitting the server too fast. Also it makes the games viewable by humans.
If you have two bots that you want to play against each other without any delay, I would suggest using the matchOffline script which is available from the downloads page.
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mistre
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Re: Bot_Loc not on bot ladder
« Reply #14 on: Sep 10th, 2008, 7:36am » |
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Still missing are Zombie2008P1 and Zombie2008P2. Were you planning on adding those?
I like how Zombie and Sharp both play more reckless with their camel. And then their is OpFor who has its own unique style.
It is nice to have these new bots on the bot ladder.
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