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Topic: Bot Ladder (Read 3083 times) |
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Victorwss
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Arimaa player #5012
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Bot Ladder
« on: Feb 19th, 2010, 10:12pm » |
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Hi people.
I am stuck in the bot ladder, I lost to bot_OpFor2008P1 ten times and this is very frustrating. This was enough to momentainly made his ranking be swapped with bot_Arimaazilla.
I played bot_Arimaazilla just one time and won.
So, I want to suggest an enhancement in the bot ladder, to avoid frustration in cases like mine.
Instead of being forced to defeat them in the order, why not keeping the bottom three undefeated bots open to play? This way, when a human is particularly weak against one bot, he/she does not get stuck and may skip that bot. Some games does this, you always have three open levels to try out.
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Isaac Grosof
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Re: Bot Ladder
« Reply #1 on: Feb 19th, 2010, 11:30pm » |
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I know exactly what you mean, and I think that it should be 100 rating points, instead of 3 bots. This will have a similar effect, but will ensure people don't play up too high when there is a large rating gap between two consecutive bots.
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Sorry about that one thing.
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novacat
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Re: Bot Ladder
« Reply #2 on: Feb 20th, 2010, 6:59am » |
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Ironically, limiting the rating points between the top and bottom playable bots to 100 will make Victorwss have to play only bot_OpFor2008P1 again. The next bot after bot_Arimaazilla is more than 100 rating points higher. 
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Eltripas
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Re: Bot Ladder
« Reply #3 on: Feb 20th, 2010, 11:13am » |
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Oh, the memories, I lost 13 times against opfor before defeating it, and won against arimazilla on my first try too, we must have a similar game style, well, maybe not anymore but a similar game style that the one I used at that time.
Advice: use all the time you got to think, be careful, specially don't do moves that can be undone with less steps than the steps you used.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 20th, 2010, 11:17am by Eltripas » |
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omar
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Re: Bot Ladder
« Reply #4 on: Feb 20th, 2010, 2:18pm » |
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Thanks for that suggestion Victorwss. Sometimes the bots do move up and down in ratings and change positions on the ladder anyways, so allowing to play a few bots above you seems like a good idea.
Unless someone points out something that can go wrong with doing this, I'll make this change.
Also I recently added a link next to the bot to show games that the bot recently lost. This could be used to study the bots weaknesses and learn how to beat it.
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Victorwss
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Arimaa player #5012
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Re: Bot Ladder
« Reply #5 on: Feb 21st, 2010, 9:20am » |
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omar: Thank you. I hope to see this implemented soon.
722caasi: As novacat said, the 100 rating points would not be so effective like 3 bots. I think that the 3 bots rule is very simple and you never get stuck on a particular single bot.
omar and Eltripas: Yes, I studied some games against OpFor. Apparently it is weak against Horse Elephant attacks. However I never managed to make one such attack that worked correctly.
I played arimaazilla again yesteday and lost. However the game was very equilibrated. Different from the usual shameful humilhation massacre against OpFor.
I don't understand why OpFor is not rated higher, maybe because there are so many people exploiting its bug against Horse Elephant attacks? If so, I wonder what would be its ranking if that bot did not have such weakness or if somebody did not wanted to exploit it?
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| « Last Edit: Feb 21st, 2010, 9:21am by Victorwss » |
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Eltripas
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Re: Bot Ladder
« Reply #6 on: Feb 21st, 2010, 1:42pm » |
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The bot is not underrated it is all about the game style, I have a friend 1porkesi, he started playing time after me, he is not more skillful in arimaa than me (at least not much), but he won its first game against opforp1, he didn't checked other games, he didn't know of the HE attack, and he won, but when he played arimaazilla he lost twice before winning...
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Victorwss
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Re: Bot Ladder
« Reply #7 on: Feb 21st, 2010, 11:28pm » |
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on Feb 21st, 2010, 1:42pm, Eltripas wrote:| The bot is not underrated it is all about the game style, I have a friend 1porkesi, he started playing time after me, he is not more skillful in arimaa than me (at least not much), but he won its first game against opforp1, he didn't checked other games, he didn't know of the HE attack, and he won, but when he played arimaazilla he lost twice before winning... |
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I finally defeated bot_OpFor2008P1. 
It was my hardest game that I won. I was in very large disvantage, have lost half of my pieces and captured just one dog, but I managed to cross a rabbit to the other side, while trying to hold and slow down his camel, his two horses and two advanced rabbits using just a horse and my elephant. Luckly, he sent his elephant to the other side of the board to kill my abandoned other horse, just like a HE, though not planned.
The game: http://www.arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=135580&s=b
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| « Last Edit: Feb 21st, 2010, 11:33pm by Victorwss » |
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Re: Bot Ladder
« Reply #8 on: Feb 22nd, 2010, 9:57am » |
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on Feb 21st, 2010, 11:28pm, Victorwss wrote:| I finally defeated bot_OpFor2008P1. |
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Congratulations!
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Isaac Grosof
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Re: Bot Ladder
« Reply #9 on: Feb 22nd, 2010, 3:34pm » |
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on Feb 21st, 2010, 11:28pm, Victorwss wrote:
I finally defeated bot_OpFor2008P1.
It was my hardest game that I won. I was in very large disvantage, have lost half of my pieces and captured just one dog, but I managed to cross a rabbit to the other side, while trying to hold and slow down his camel, his two horses and two advanced rabbits using just a horse and my elephant. Luckly, he sent his elephant to the other side of the board to kill my abandoned other horse, just like a HE, though not planned.
The game: http://www.arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=135580&s=b |
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That reminds me of this game:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/showGame.cgi?gid=101059&s=w&clien t=1
Good Job!
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Sorry about that one thing.
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omar
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Re: Bot Ladder
« Reply #10 on: Mar 3rd, 2010, 12:43pm » |
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on Feb 21st, 2010, 9:20am, Victorwss wrote:| omar: Thank you. I hope to see this implemented soon. |
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Made the change. Best of luck.
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Victorwss
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Arimaa player #5012
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Re: Bot Ladder
« Reply #11 on: Mar 5th, 2010, 4:54pm » |
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on Mar 3rd, 2010, 12:43pm, omar wrote:
Made the change. Best of luck.
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Thanks
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Hippo
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Arimaa player #4450
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Re: Bot Ladder
« Reply #12 on: Mar 7th, 2010, 5:01am » |
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on Feb 20th, 2010, 2:18pm, omar wrote:Thanks for that suggestion Victorwss. Sometimes the bots do move up and down in ratings and change positions on the ladder anyways, so allowing to play a few bots above you seems like a good idea.
Unless someone points out something that can go wrong with doing this, I'll make this change.
Also I recently added a link next to the bot to show games that the bot recently lost. This could be used to study the bots weaknesses and learn how to beat it.
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 I did it myself when climbing the ladder ... if you lose several times with bot in a short time, it went's up with rating so you can/must play another but I'ts probably no problem to allow that.
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Sconibulus
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Re: Bot Ladder
« Reply #13 on: Mar 8th, 2010, 9:33pm » |
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A slight bit of oddness with this near the top of the ladder.
I've got only Bomb-Blitz left to beat, and it shows up in line with the center of the three play now buttons. Lined up with the second, the problem with this is that the first and second buttons give me the following message:
"Need First Bot
The first bot was not found."
I need to click the third to start my game with Bomb.
I don't know if this can be duplicated easily or not, because I was already stuck on Bomb-Blitz when the option to play three different bots was implemented, which might just have been an uncaught special case.
Edited to add: This happens with Firefox and Chrome.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 9th, 2010, 6:20am by Sconibulus » |
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Hippo
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Arimaa player #4450
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Re: Bot Ladder
« Reply #14 on: Mar 9th, 2010, 2:35am » |
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on Mar 8th, 2010, 9:33pm, Sconibulus wrote:
I don't know if this can be duplicated easily or not. |
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omar (as anybody else) can look on your profile, so he can easily checked it.
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