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Topic: New Botbasher Challenge : Worst set up (Read 1540 times) |
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frostlad
Forum Senior Member
Arimaa player #1704
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Posts: 46
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New Botbasher Challenge : Worst set up
« on: Apr 25th, 2006, 2:46pm » |
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Alright everyone. I'm curious to see how much of a handicap that the setup really is.
I want to see how far people can get up the ladder and how quickly you can win using the following setup:
MHDCRRRR
EHDCRRRR
Intuitively I think this would be the worst set up or does anyone have anything they think is worse?
Unfortunately I have no money so I can't offer anything like IdahoEv.
I also wouldn't mind seeing if people can do that with material handicap as well.
I know if the bot doesn't think much you can win ( see game 29805 ) but I haven't tried any high up bots yet.
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nbarriga
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Almost retired Bot Developer
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Re: New Botbasher Challenge : Worst set up
« Reply #1 on: Apr 25th, 2006, 2:53pm » |
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I think something like
RRRRRRRR
EMHHDDCC
would be much worse
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Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
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Posts: 5928
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Re: New Botbasher Challenge : Worst set up
« Reply #2 on: Apr 25th, 2006, 3:01pm » |
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on Apr 25th, 2006, 2:53pm, nbarriga wrote:
I agree that this is the worst setup. I'm also pretty sure I beat bot_Bomb2005CC with that setup once, although I don't recall the game number. I figure it's about equivalent to a material handicap of two rabbits, or at most three, i.e. not as much as I expected.
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frostlad
Forum Senior Member
Arimaa player #1704
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Posts: 46
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Re: New Botbasher Challenge : Worst set up
« Reply #3 on: Apr 25th, 2006, 3:20pm » |
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That surprises me.
With
RRRRRRRR
EMHHDDCC
you at least have noble pieces on that side to help move around traps.
I'm not sure if I agree with you guys on that.
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Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
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Posts: 5928
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Re: New Botbasher Challenge : Worst set up
« Reply #4 on: Apr 25th, 2006, 3:29pm » |
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on Apr 25th, 2006, 3:20pm, frostlad wrote:| ...you at least have noble pieces on that side to help move around traps. |
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It's true that is a disadvantage to have no pieces whatsoever on one side, but a misplaced piece is easier to fix than a misplaced rabbit. With your setup you aren't tripping over your own rabbits so much, thus your pieces should have an easier time re-organizing themselves. Also, with your setup, you are in danger of rabbit pulls on one side only, instead of on both sides.
Of course, I'm just guessing about your setup until I try it. If you try out both against Bomb or Clueless, I'd be interested in your impressions of which was more difficult and why.
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IdahoEv
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #1753
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Re: New Botbasher Challenge : Worst set up
« Reply #5 on: Apr 25th, 2006, 9:03pm » |
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I just played a quickie against ArimaaScoreP2 to see what the position was like.
The totally asymmetrical position is actually pretty annoying; it might be as bad as all-rabbits-forward.
I think, though, that you want to bury the higher officers deeper. Assuming you want to keep the asymmetry, something like
DCDCRRRR
EMHHRRRR
Might be even a tad worse. An immediate EH attack would be devastating then; you couldn't even fend off the H.
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clauchau
Forum Guru
bot Quantum Leapfrog's father
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Re: New Botbasher Challenge : Worst set up
« Reply #6 on: Apr 26th, 2006, 1:37pm » |
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I tend to think all the rabbits on the second rank is worse.
I don't know about humans or gods, but bot Bomb is confused when the rabbits are all on one flank.
It's like bot Bomb thinks the rabbit wall is real solid while the other flank is easy to go through. It likes files with no blocking rabbit of yours on your first rank.
And bot Bomb doesn't know much about rabbit pulling.
Maybe another bot would be tougher.
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PMertens
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #692
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Re: New Botbasher Challenge : Worst set up
« Reply #7 on: Apr 28th, 2006, 5:19pm » |
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how about
CRCRRMRR
EHHDRRRD
This might trigger bombs camel-hunting instinct a little more.
...
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Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
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Posts: 5928
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Re: New Botbasher Challenge : Worst set up
« Reply #8 on: Nov 28th, 2008, 10:42am » |
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99of9, what is the setup with the lowest total score (relative to expactations based on ratings) over the history of Arimaa? I'm curious because it would have to be something popular enough that many games have been lost with it, but not so obviously bad that nobody plays with it.
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