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Topic: Endgame Puzzle 8 (Read 1107 times) |
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Hippo
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 8
« Reply #1 on: Apr 7th, 2011, 9:23am » |
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I hope gold moves in the longest variant would be Rb5 Rf5 Rc5 Rg5 Rh8 ... grrr no Rc5 is losing to counterthreat  I have read the solution so no more fun... very nice puzle indeed.
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| « Last Edit: Apr 7th, 2011, 9:29am by Hippo » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 8
« Reply #2 on: Apr 7th, 2011, 11:06pm » |
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Nice puzzle, thanks, jdb. Five minutes for me to find the complete (and for a change, also correct) solution. I had the exact main line until 5g when more than one move wins. But since the solution is already posted as part of the puzzle, there is no hidden text for me to post. 
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ginrunner
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 8
« Reply #3 on: Apr 8th, 2011, 2:58am » |
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there are multiple ways to win this due to momentum of a single advanced rabbit. though I like this one alot since it does create forced moves for the defense which doesnt make finding a line nearly impossible.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 8
« Reply #4 on: Apr 8th, 2011, 9:47am » |
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on Apr 8th, 2011, 2:58am, ginrunner wrote:| there are multiple ways to win this due to momentum of a single advanced rabbit. |
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At what point does Gold have more than one winning move? From the initial position, or only deeper in the tree, and if so, how deep?
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ginrunner
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 8
« Reply #5 on: Apr 8th, 2011, 12:33pm » |
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The way I forced a win was by going east with my rabbit on the first move. more: The puzzle is winnable from many different perspectives. The only rule is don't move the gold rabbit past row 5 until the silver rabbits have been forced into a position that once you commit the gold rabbit past the 5th row the silver rabbits can't surround you. Basically silver needs gold to mess up first so that silver can use three (2 if gold REALLY messes up) to block goal/immobilize and the last rabbit to goal on its own. If gold keeps moving east and west silver 1) never gets a chance to attack 2) is forced to move out of position to defend properly.
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| « Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2011, 12:38pm by ginrunner » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 8
« Reply #6 on: Apr 8th, 2011, 1:12pm » |
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on Apr 8th, 2011, 12:33pm, ginrunner wrote:| The way I forced a win was by going east with my rabbit on the first move. |
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To what square? Are you sure you have a forced win? For example:
2g Rd3nnee 2s rd7eee rc8s
3g Rf5e 3s re8eee rc7w
or
3g Rf5wwww 3s rc7w rd8www
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ginrunner
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 8
« Reply #7 on: Apr 10th, 2011, 2:58pm » |
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ah ... my solution is just a prolonged version of the actual solution I hit the same spots but a move behind. forced win for gold with multiple ways to do nearly the same thing.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 8
« Reply #8 on: Apr 10th, 2011, 5:17pm » |
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on Apr 10th, 2011, 2:58pm, ginrunner wrote:| ah ... my solution is just a prolonged version of the actual solution I hit the same spots but a move behind. forced win for gold with multiple ways to do nearly the same thing. |
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Would you be willing to post some lines? I managed to convince myself (see hidden analysis above) that the alternate first move was not a slower win for Gold, but a win for Silver instead. Did you have a different first move in mind?
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ginrunner
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 8
« Reply #9 on: Apr 11th, 2011, 1:15am » |
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im going to make this cryptic enough that I dont need to hide it. take the first move you suggested for me fritz. then move west to the place that the original solution says to go. then move 2 east. the move still should not be completely forced but you get the picture of what I am trying to do. gold has it as long as they don't make a mistake and move north too soon. eventually the silver rabbits will get in each others way or won't be able to move east and west fast enough.
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jdb
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 8
« Reply #10 on: Apr 11th, 2011, 8:32am » |
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There is only one winning move. All others lose.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 8
« Reply #11 on: Apr 11th, 2011, 10:13am » |
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on Apr 11th, 2011, 1:15am, ginrunner wrote:| im going to make this cryptic enough that I dont need to hide it. take the first move you suggested for me fritz. then move west to the place that the original solution says to go. then move 2 east. |
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I'm pretty sure that plan loses, as my hidden text above was trying to suggest. Extending the line one more move:
2g Rd3nnee 2s rd7eee rc8s
3g Rf5wwww 3s rc7w rd8www
4g Rb5ee 4s rb7ee rg7ss
And Silver goals on 5s. Gold holds out a little longer with a different 4g, but I think it still doesn't work:
2g Rd3nnee 2s rd7eee rc8s
3g Rf5wwww 3s rc7w rd8www
4g Rb5eee 4s rb7ee re8s rg7s
5g Re5ee 5s re7ee rd7e rg6e
5g Rg5ww 6s re7w rg7ww rh6s
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Fritzlein
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 8
« Reply #12 on: Apr 11th, 2011, 10:18am » |
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on Apr 11th, 2011, 8:32am, jdb wrote:| There is only one winning move. All others lose. |
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Thanks for clarifying, jdb. That means that any move other than the one in given in the puzzle must lose, including ginrunner's move. Nevertheless, it may be more instructive to see how other moves lose than to see how the correct move wins. I think I solved the puzzle quickly in the first place only because the winning line is so forcing, while the losing line is more subtle due to the difficulty of finding the exactly correct defense for Silver. In other words, I got lucky.  May I ask if I have the correct 2s after ginrunner's proposed 2g? I think I have it right, but this position is tricky enough that I can't be too confident.
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ginrunner
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 8
« Reply #13 on: Apr 11th, 2011, 11:03am » |
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ya my problem is finding the defense. in my head I want myself to win and so finding how I lose doesnt always work lol
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