Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register.
Dec 10th, 2019, 4:59am

Home Home Help Help Search Search Members Members Login Login Register Register
Arimaa Forum Move 3


   Arimaa Forum
   Team Games
   2007 One vs TheMob
(Moderators: supersamu, RonWeasley)
   Move 3
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1 2 3  Reply Reply Notify of replies Notify of replies Send Topic Send Topic Print Print
   Author  Topic: Move 3  (Read 3553 times)
99of9
Forum Guru
*****




Gnobby's creator (player #314)

  toby_hudson  


Gender: male
Posts: 1412
Re: Move 3
« Reply #30 on: May 4th, 2007, 6:24am »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

on May 2nd, 2007, 2:05pm, Fritzlein wrote:
2. 3b hb7s ed4s ra7e rh7w
I quite like this move, too.  {...}  I rank it second only due to personal preference to avoid sharp lines.  I hate to race when I am not sure I will win the race, and moving our elephant out of the center commits us to racing if that's what chessandgo decides to do.

 
Here's one line that might follow if he decided to race without defending his camel:
 
3b hb7s ed4s ra7e rh7w
4w Ed6n me7s Ed7e Hb3n
4b ed3e Md2n Md3n ee3w
5w me6s Ee7s Hb4e Md4e
5b ed3n ed4n me5e mf5n
 
That would leave us roughly even by my reckoning (since he has the next turn and can also retreat his forces if he wants).
IP Logged
99of9
Forum Guru
*****




Gnobby's creator (player #314)

  toby_hudson  


Gender: male
Posts: 1412
Re: Move 3
« Reply #31 on: May 4th, 2007, 7:41am »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

on May 2nd, 2007, 2:05pm, Fritzlein wrote:

6. 3b hb7s dd8s hg6s hg5s
This can't be correct unless the elephant-horse attack is sound in general.  If the elephant-horse attack were generally sound, then the opening would be all about who could get in the first shot.  This would be a great way for us to be the attacker rather than defender.  If you simply must play around the opponent's traps rather than around your own, then by all means take the fight to the other side.   However, even if some elephant-horse attacks are sound, I don't believe this one is.  I think chessandgo would get the advantage simply by bringing back his elephant to f4, taking our horse hostage.

I would reply:
4b ed4s ed3e Md2n me7s
 
I don't see any clear way he can take our horse hostage with his camel (which is the main risk to EH in my view).  We could then send our dog up behind our horse, and play like chessandgo!  The main upside is targetting the h2 rabbit.
IP Logged
Fritzlein
Forum Guru
*****



Arimaa player #706

   
Email

Gender: male
Posts: 5928
Re: Move 3
« Reply #32 on: May 5th, 2007, 4:34pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

Well, this may be too late with voting already underway.  Do we really need 2.5 days of voting?  My inclination would be to cut the voting down to only 1.5 days, and if we have another spare day, use it for extra discussion instead.
 
In any event, Katie and I have moved out of our apartment and into our house.  It suddenly occurs to me that there is no deadline on unpacking.  I can live nicely in the middle of piles of boxes, thank you, as long as the computer is set up so I can get my daily Arimaa fix.
 
on May 3rd, 2007, 12:00am, NIC1138 wrote:
Allright! Last-hour candidate! (the rc8e one lost the primaries)
 
3b me7w ce8s df7s hb7s

This move keeps things safe for the immediate future, but it seems to leave chessandgo with a path to improve his position at no risk.  A move like 4w Ed6e md7s Db1n Cf2e develops gold's position without committing to anything yet.  Although it took only two steps for him to threaten our camel, we would need more than two steps on defense, and would have trouble keeping our camel in position to scare off gold horses from both wings.  Indeed, if our camel became restricted to the west, Gold is immediately threatening an EH attack on f6.
 
Yes, we could taunt chessandgo a bit by moving our camel next to his elephant in a way that is safe for us, but unless it provoked him into a poor move, it would just let him quietly gain tempo and/or position.
 
on May 4th, 2007, 7:41am, 99of9 wrote:

I would reply:
4b ed4s ed3e Md2n me7s
 
I don't see any clear way he can take our horse hostage with his camel (which is the main risk to EH in my view).  We could then send our dog up behind our horse, and play like chessandgo!  The main upside is targetting the h2 rabbit.

But don't forget the other threat to the exposed horse, namely a frame.  After your move, 5w Cc2n Md3s Ef4w hg4w threatens a horse frame before our dog is ready to come to our horse's rescue.  We would have to bring up our camel to unfreeze our horse, and leave our camel on an awkward square in the process.  I think chessandgo could get plenty of play before we got our forces organized.
 
In general, I think the soundness of an EH attack depends not merely on the position of the enemy camel, but also on the position of the friendly camel and supporting dog.  If we want to launch an EH attack, then let's get our dog in the right spot first, so our camel doesn't have to end up in the wrong spot.
« Last Edit: May 5th, 2007, 4:36pm by Fritzlein » IP Logged

RonWeasley
Forum Moderator
Forum Guru
*****




Harry's friend (Arimaa player #441)

   


Gender: male
Posts: 882
Re: Move 3
« Reply #33 on: May 7th, 2007, 7:13am »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

12 of 15 voted.  Tucked rabbits wins!  This was unexpected to me from the discussion as defensive west and M half pull seemed to have the most vocal backers.  But this is mob rule!
 
For the next moves I am going to try to lay out a schedule early for discussion and voting so that we make our move in less than 7 days.  It seems like mobsters need a 2 day window to vote, based on the last two moves.  We will continually refine this.
IP Logged
Fritzlein
Forum Guru
*****



Arimaa player #706

   
Email

Gender: male
Posts: 5928
Re: Move 3
« Reply #34 on: May 7th, 2007, 10:54am »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

Very interesting.  Like Ron, I'm surprised the M pull didn't win the vote.  I thought folks would go for the most tangible objective rather than dinking around like I wanted to with my first choice.
 
Maybe folks picked 99of9's move just because they were tired of me trying to dominate the conversation.  Tongue  Or maybe it was a case of a compromise candidate coming out ahead of two extremes.
 
I think we may have already equalized, despite having the Silver pieces.  Will chessandgo take the offered lone-elephant race, or will he launch a premature elephant-horse attack?  Either way, I think we are fine.
 
For the record:

    .    .    .    .    .    .    .  .  1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9.
1. hb7s ed4s ra7e rh7w (tucked rabbits)  -  7  7 10 10  9 10 11 11
2. hb7s cc7w dd8s dd7w (west defensive)  5  -  8 10 10  9  9 11 12
3. hb7s ed4s ed3e Md2n (M half pull)  .  5  3  -  9  9  9  9 11 11
4. hb7s ed4n dd8s ce8w (E cap)    .   .  2  2  3  -  8  8  9 11 11
5. hb7s ed4s dd8s ce8w (e d up)   .   .  2  2  3  3  -  6  6 11 11
6. hb7s dd8s hg6s hg5s (immediate eh)    3  3  3  4  5  -  6 10 10
7. hb7s me7w ce8s df7s (catdog up)    .  2  3  3  3  4  3  -  7  9
8. hb7s me7s dd8s dd7e (m up)    .    .  1  1  1  0  0  0  3  -  7
9. dd8s rc8e me7s df7w (dogs behind m)   1  0  1  0  0  0  0  1  -

 
This was my ballot, except I reversed 1 & 2 and 6 & 7.  I wonder whether, a year from now, I will be more sold on the E-H attack.
IP Logged

aaaa
Forum Guru
*****



Arimaa player #958

   


Posts: 758
Re: Move 3
« Reply #35 on: May 7th, 2007, 12:13pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

on May 7th, 2007, 10:54am, Fritzlein wrote:
I think we may have already equalized, despite having the Silver pieces.

Strange hearing you say that considering this. My own personal research also supports the extremely tentative hypothesis that if anyone is supposed to have an advantage, Silver currently has the better claim.
IP Logged
Janzert
Forum Guru
*****



Arimaa player #247

   


Gender: male
Posts: 1014
Re: Move 3
« Reply #36 on: May 7th, 2007, 4:09pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

That's because Fritzlein is a firm believer in his own intuition rather than the contrary statistical evidence that he himself has presented. Wink
 
Janzert
IP Logged
Fritzlein
Forum Guru
*****



Arimaa player #706

   
Email

Gender: male
Posts: 5928
Re: Move 3
« Reply #37 on: May 7th, 2007, 4:11pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

Heheh.  You have me pegged, Janzert.  In the past I leaned towards explaining the data as a pure statistical fluke.  Today my favorite theory is that we are so far from a correct understanding of Arimaa theory that Gold typically uses the advantage of the first move to hurt himself.  Shocked
« Last Edit: May 7th, 2007, 10:16pm by Fritzlein » IP Logged

Pages: 1 2 3  Reply Reply Notify of replies Notify of replies Send Topic Send Topic Print Print

« Previous topic | Next topic »

Arimaa Forum » Powered by YaBB 1 Gold - SP 1.3.1!
YaBB 2000-2003. All Rights Reserved.