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        Team Games >> 2007 One vs TheMob >> Move 10
        
(Message started by: RonWeasley on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 8:20am)

Title: Move 10
Post by RonWeasley on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 8:20am

I have to go help Harry for two weeks. I can peek in during the week August 12-18, but I'm completely out of the floo next week. I'm looking for a volunteer to run the voting during this time. I can give you the TheMob account info, the voting site link, and the list of mobster e-mails. To be qualified you should be someone who lurks around the site most days.

To volunteer, simply post to this topic and I will send you the info with my thanx. If you are not yet a mobster, follow the directions in the About topic and I will get everything to you.

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 8:40am

I'll hold the reins for a move or two ... if you can trust a Slytherin!

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by The_Jeh on Aug 3^rd, 2007, 4:36pm

Chessandgo chooses 10w Eb5e Mc4s Mc3e Ec5w.

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 3^rd, 2007, 7:17pm

Thanks for noticing and posting chessandgo's move, John. I'd like to shoot for five days of discussion and 36 hours of voting, unless anyone requests an extension. It works well with my schedule to open the voting 01:00 GMT Thursday August 9, and close voting 13:00 GMT Friday August 10. I will be voting, but I will limit my participation in the discussion to suggesting possible moves. To get things rolling:

10b eb4e ec4e ed4w Md3n
10b eb4e Db3n ec4e Db4e
10b eb4e Ha4n ec4e Hb4e
10b rb7w cc7w mb6w mc6n

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by The_Jeh on Aug 3^rd, 2007, 8:24pm

I'll assume you mean:

10b eb4e ec4e ed4w Md3n
10b eb4e Db3n ec4e Db4e
10b eb4e Ha4e ec4e Hb4e
10b rb7w cc7w md6w mc6n

On the proposal 10b rb7w cc7w md6w mc6n - why would we want to back off the camel after just putting it forward? If you need a piece behind c6, what about using the d8 dog? 10b rb7w cc7w dd8s dd7w

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by RonWeasley on Aug 3^rd, 2007, 8:34pm

I like pulling the dog to c4 best. Our maybe it just won't let go of my leg.

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 3^rd, 2007, 11:20pm

on 08/03/07 at 20:24:27, The_Jeh wrote:

I'll assume you mean:
10b eb4e Ha4e ec4e Hb4e

Right, thanks for the correction.

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by arimaa_master on Aug 5^th, 2007, 3:51am

Pulling the dog or the horse to c4 looks fine but I have already my favorite:

Here is my proposal:

10b hb6w rb7w cc7w md6e

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by mdk on Aug 5^th, 2007, 3:03pm

on 08/05/07 at 03:51:32, arimaa_master wrote:

Here is my proposal:

10b hb6w rb7w cc7w md6e

I'm worried that this move gives chessandgo a positional advantage. How do you respond to 11w Eb5e Ec5e Ed5n Md3e?

Right now my favorite move is the dog pull to c4 although further analysis could or other move proposals could certainly change my ming

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by Janzert on Aug 5^th, 2007, 10:12pm

Fritzlein, I hope you aren't staying out of the discussion because you happen to be running the vote this time. Cause I'd certainly like to here your opinions too if you have the time and I really don't expect that you'll be corrupting a 3rd parties voting website by doing so. ;)

Janzert

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 5^th, 2007, 10:45pm

Hrm, yes, I was staying out of the discussion because I am running the vote. The coordinator has a certain amount of influence already by setting the schedule, deciding whether to delay the vote, describing the moves to be voted on, and deciding whether to extend the vote or to re-vote if some move was mistyped or accidentally omitted. That doesn't amount to getting my own way, but it could at least create the appearance of dominating the vote.

Also I'm low on reserve and in a ticklish position in my postal game against chessandgo. Maybe in a few weeks when Ron is back that position will have clarified, and I will cut loose in this discussion again. In the mean time, I expect the Mob can make a fine choice without my influence. We've done great so far; indeed I think we have been hanging on to a small advantage for the last several moves.

Title: Re: Move 10D
Post by arimaa_master on Aug 7^th, 2007, 2:35pm

on 08/05/07 at 15:03:01, mdk wrote:

I don´t think so (abou positional advantage): 11b eb4n Db3n eb5e Db4n must be good enough.

Title: Re: Move 10D
Post by mdk on Aug 7^th, 2007, 10:09pm

on 08/07/07 at 14:35:13, arimaa_master wrote:

I don´t think so (abou positional advantage): 11b eb4n Db3n eb5e Db4n must be good enough.

What if chessandgo then plays 12w Ha4n Db5s Ha5e Hb5n ? I would certainly prefer chessandgo's position at this point.

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 7^th, 2007, 10:38pm

Voting begins in less than 24 hours, with a current ballot of

hb6w rb7w cc7w md6e (shift west, camel east)
rb7w cc7w dd8s dd7w (shift west, dog behind trap)
rb7w cc7w md6w mc6n (shift west, camel behind trap)
eb4e Ha4e ec4e Hb4e (pull horse to c4)
eb4e Db3n ec4e Db4e (pull dog to c4)
eb4e ec4e ed4w Md3n (pull camel to d4)

Corrections, comments, and additions are welcome.

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by arimaa_master on Aug 7^th, 2007, 11:30pm

on 08/07/07 at 22:09:07, mdk wrote:

What if chessandgo then plays 12w Ha4n Db5s Ha5e Hb5n ? I would certainly prefer chessandgo's position at this point.

I am sorry, I was kind of sleepy yesterday so the right one 11b is:
11b me6 dd8s dd7w cb7s

but it starting to look not so very good for us, so maybe I will vote for some pull to c4. Thus thanks for pointing out to that strong 11w.

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by 99of9 on Aug 8^th, 2007, 4:51pm

10b Ha4n eb4w hb6w rb7w

This puts us in position to pull a rabbit very soon. Jean can't pull our rabbit, because if he does, he will get blockaded. I think he will go after our camel, but it looks safe enough to me.

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by mdk on Aug 8^th, 2007, 5:23pm

I don't know how other mob members feel but I would appreciate delaying the voting for a bit in order to allow more time for analysis of the position, even if this means we end up eating into our reserve a bit.

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 8^th, 2007, 6:15pm

I was going to start the vote in a couple of hours, but due to the late-breaking suggestion by 99of9, and an extension request by mdk, I will delay the start of voting by 24 hours. Further extensions are possible, but only if folks are actually discussing. In case of apathy, I will open the election whether we are ready or not.

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by arimaa_master on Aug 9^th, 2007, 2:16am

on 08/08/07 at 16:51:35, 99of9 wrote:

It is interesting move, but I don´t think that it is better than any pull to c4 (especially due to our decentralized elephant and exposed camel).

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by 99of9 on Aug 9^th, 2007, 7:59am

I think the c4 pulls just tread water. What are we actually hoping to achieve?

Jean doesn't look like he's going to give us his camel. We don't want his horse, because it becomes a threat. What we want is a rabbit. Which rabbit are we going to get? I don't see any hope of getting anything other than a wing rabbit, so temporary decentralization is a necessary part of that. There's a pretty clear path back to the center anyway.

Regarding the camel, what move in particular are people worried about? I've tried a few and in each case I was able to get the camel safe without too much fuss.

This might be a big chance, so personally I'd value a few other contributions here (including Fritz's).

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by arimaa_master on Aug 9^th, 2007, 8:22am

on 08/09/07 at 07:59:49, 99of9 wrote:

Ok, but what about: 11w Eb5e Ec5e Ed5w md6s now only viable safe option for us is: 11b ea4e eb4e ec4e md5n

but from this perspective (we are back with our "e" centralized and no rabbit pull is on horizon) what it the purpose of "10b Ha4n eb4w hb6w rb7w" then?

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by jdb on Aug 9^th, 2007, 8:31am

on 08/08/07 at 16:51:35, 99of9 wrote:

This move looks good to me too. Gold's ability to go after the camel is limited by his horse on a5.

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by 99of9 on Aug 9^th, 2007, 4:22pm

on 08/09/07 at 08:22:16, arimaa_master wrote:

Ok, but what about: 11w Eb5e Ec5e Ed5w md6s now only viable safe option for us is: 11b ea4e eb4e ec4e md5n

We could instead play:
11b ce7s ce6s md5n ce5n
or
11b dd8s dd7s md5e me5n
or some variant.

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 9^th, 2007, 4:33pm

Excellent, the one-day extension garnered a few more posts. Would anyone like a further extension? If someone squawks in the next few hours, I'll extend again. Otherwise the voting shall begin.

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by 99of9 on Aug 9^th, 2007, 4:39pm

I'm still keen to hear your opinion Fritz. This could be an important opportunity/mistake.

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by The_Jeh on Aug 9^th, 2007, 5:48pm

Yes, please brief us, Coordinator pro tempore. Despite the reasons you gave, I detect that you are testing our level of dependency on you. ;)

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 9^th, 2007, 10:23pm

OK, three requests for my opinion, and I will bow to popular demand. Thank you guys; it's very flattering.

I feel 10b Ha4n eb4w hb6w rb7w is fine tactically but not best strategically. After 11w Eb5e Ec5e md6e Ed5n, we have a horse hostage, but it is no good to us due to the position of our camel. The fact that our elephant on a4 would be closer to a rabbit pull looks nice, but I doubt we will ever be able to afford the necessary steps given what chessandgo will be able to threaten. In short, I would expect chessandgo to be very satisfied with the resulting position.

My top two votes are going to be for the horse pull and dog pull. Neither is exciting, but they limit chessandgo's options and (I hope) keep a small initiative for us. It's too bad that we don't have anything more forceful than pulling a piece that can retreat, but sometimes Arimaa is a game of patience.

This opinion isn't based on deep analysis; it's merely my $0.02 because you asked. I hope the team doesn't feel compelled to play boring moves just because they are most comfortable to me. :-)

I have opened the election, and will close it at 13:00 GMT Saturday.

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by mdk on Aug 9^th, 2007, 10:51pm

Thanks Fritz for delaying the vote and i'm glad to see that people actually used the extra time to discuss the move options. sorry i havent posted earlier after being the one who requested for the delay. I personally feel that our best option is to pull the horse or the dog but i'm not sure which one i like more.

Title: Re: Move 10
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 11^th, 2007, 9:25am

The Mob dips 18 hours into reserve, and pulls the horse to c4. There were nine voters this time, up one from last time. Yay!

For the record
. . . . . . . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
1. eb4e Ha4e ec4e Hb4e (pull horse to c4) . . - 5 7 6 9 9 9
2. eb4e Db3n ec4e Db4e (pull dog to c4) . . . 3 - 6 5 8 8 8
3. Ha4n eb4w hb6w rb7w (shift west, push horse) . 2 2 - 4 5 4 6
4. eb4e ec4e ed4w Md3n (pull camel to d4) . . 1 2 4 - 5 6 6
5. rb7w cc7w dd8s dd7w (shift west, dog behind trap) 0 0 3 1 - 6 6
6. rb7w cc7w md6w mc6n (shift west, camel behind trap) 0 0 4 2 2 - 5
7. hb6w rb7w cc7w md6e (shift west, camel east) . 0 0 2 0 0 2 -

I'm glad at least a couple people ignored me and voted for 99of9's move first. I wouldn't want undue respect given to my opinion when it's not backed by very much analysis.