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        Team Games >> 2009 One vs TheMob >> Move 5
        
(Message started by: The_Jeh on Jan 30th, 2009, 1:38pm)
Title: Move 5
Post by The_Jeh on Jan 30th, 2009, 1:38pm
Fritzlein chooses 4s ed3e ee3w Ce2n hd7s.
Title: Re: Move 5
Post by chessandgo on Jan 31st, 2009, 2:24am
ok, so up to starting setup inversions this is still the game Adanac-Fritzl from previous WC round: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=94859&s=b

What do you think of your move 5w and the following, Adanac? Your experience of such a position will be useful for us, please tell us everything :)

I would think we need to withdraw our Cat not to let it be pulled or pushed in the center as in the above game.

I might be wrong, but I definitely don't like 4s. 5g Hg2n Hg3w Ce3s x makes is so that 4s/5g have basically been a trade of 1 step for 1 step (which I think slightly favors us, as we have the position that needs to be "repared" with our unprotected hometraps, while hd6s is not that pressing a step), plus our Hg2 now is on f3, which I think is rather good for us as well. So, basically, if we play 5g Hg2n Hg3w Ce3s Dg1n for instance, I have no idea what silver's best move is next, but whatever it is it would probably have been better to play it directly on 4s.

In short, I think playing 5g Hg2n Hg3w Ce3s Dg1n gives us a better position than before 4s. This said, there might be stronger moves, like Adanac's one, and I'm eager to hear what he and others think about the WC game after his 5w.

Jean

EDITED Ce3s, thanks arimaa_master :)
Title: Re: Move 5
Post by arimaa_master on Jan 31st, 2009, 4:30am

on 01/31/09 at 02:24:51, chessandgo wrote:
ok, so up to starting setup inversions this is still the game Adanac-Fritzl from previous WC round: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=94859&s=b

What do you think of your move 5w and the following, Adanac? Your experience of such a position will be useful for us, please tell us everything :)

I would think we need to withdraw our Cat not to let it be pulled or pushed in the center as in the above game.

I might be wrong, but I definitely don't like 4s. 5g Hg2n Hg3w Ce2s x makes is so that 4s/5g have basically been a trade of 1 step for 1 step (which I think slightly favors us, as we have the position that needs to be "repared" with our unprotected hometraps, while hd6s is not that pressing a step), plus our Hg2 now is on f3, which I think is rather good for us as well. So, basically, if we play 5g Hg2n Hg3w Ce2s Dg1n for instance, I have no idea what silver's best move is next, but whatever it is it would probably have been better to play it directly on 4s.

In short, I think playing 5g Hg2n Hg3w Ce2s Dg1n gives us a better position than before 4s. This said, there might be stronger moves, like Adanac's one, and I'm eager to hear what he and others think about the WC game after his 5w.

Jean


I guess you mean Ce3s  ::)

Yes I also clearly prefer something like:

5g Hg2n Hg3w Ce3s Dg1n

that activates our horse and dog and (like Jean already wrote) we will be in better position after this 5g.

IMHO 5w (g) in WC game above is not so strong.
Title: Re: Move 5
Post by warren on Jan 31st, 2009, 7:51am

on 01/31/09 at 02:24:51, chessandgo wrote:
In short, I think playing 5g Hg2n Hg3w Ce3s Dg1n gives us a better position than before 4s.


Having our horse near his camel and elephant with no easy retreat path looks like a weakness to me. Can you explain why you like having our horse on f3?

Update: Another obvious possibility is 5g E->e4 C->e2.

Food for thought: are there any good moves that don't retreat our cat via either E->e4 or H->f3?
Title: Re: Move 5
Post by chessandgo on Jan 31st, 2009, 10:05am
hmmm, I might be wrong in saying that our H is better on f3 than on g2, in any case it's close. The point is that our H on f3 actually protects the f3 trap, while Hg2 would not. For instance, assuming that our Elephant is busy on western wing, and silver plays camel to g3 / elephant to e3, the Hf3 could allow us to defend f3 (either by going to f4, or by staying on f3 while other pieces blockade the g2 and e2 squares so that f3 holds with a single defender on f2), which would be impossible with an Hg2. Same goes if silver's hd6 comes to g3, better have our Horse active on f3 than blockaded on g2. Retreating our Cat with the Elephant would make us lose too much time with respect to the steps we used to get our Phant on c5. If we have to do this then the opening suddently gets good for silver I think.
Title: Re: Move 5
Post by Adanac on Feb 1st, 2009, 8:49am

on 01/31/09 at 10:05:18, chessandgo wrote:
hmmm, I might be wrong in saying that our H is better on f3 than on g2, in any case it's close. The point is that our H on f3 actually protects the f3 trap, while Hg2 would not. For instance, assuming that our Elephant is busy on western wing, and silver plays camel to g3 / elephant to e3, the Hf3 could allow us to defend f3 (either by going to f4, or by staying on f3 while other pieces blockade the g2 and e2 squares so that f3 holds with a single defender on f2), which would be impossible with an Hg2. Same goes if silver's hd6 comes to g3, better have our Horse active on f3 than blockaded on g2. Retreating our Cat with the Elephant would make us lose too much time with respect to the steps we used to get our Phant on c5. If we have to do this then the opening suddently gets good for silver I think.


I like the idea of putting the horse on f3 and moving the cat to e2 and dog to g2.  Our f3 trap is very safe for now and we’re starting to get all of our pieces into play now.  I tried to play more aggressively in the WC game but I couldn’t force any kind of advantage in that one.  I prefer a slower build up now.

What will Fritzlein do in response?  He may just shift his horse to g5 to force our horse back to g3.  But that would make our attack in the northwest more powerful.  He might advance a rabbit to h4 to set up a later camel advance, but I really doubt he’d do that.  Otherwise, he’s going just slowly move up his defenders.  In that case, I’d prefer our position as we can start moving our camel towards the northwest.
Title: Re: Move 5
Post by chessandgo on Feb 1st, 2009, 8:53am

on 02/01/09 at 08:49:40, Adanac wrote:
I like the idea of putting the horse on f3 and moving the cat to e2 and dog to g2.  Our f3 trap is very safe for now and we’re starting to get all of our pieces into play now.  I tried to play more aggressively in the WC game but I couldn’t force any kind of advantage in that one.  I prefer a slower build up now.

What will Fritzlein do in response?  He may just shift his horse to g5 to force our horse back to g3.  But that would make our attack in the northwest more powerful.  He might advance a rabbit to h4 to set up a later camel advance, but I really doubt he’d do that.  Otherwise, he’s going just slowly move up his defenders.  In that case, I’d prefer our position as we can start moving our camel towards the northwest.


I agree with this, besides the fact that if silver plays a "developing move", we can play Ec5w Eb5e hb6s Ha6e directly and get our E+H running right then.
Title: Re: Move 5
Post by warren on Feb 1st, 2009, 8:09pm
If our elephant leaves the northwest in the near future we may need to worry about h->a5 h->b6 , which would trap our horse with his horses. If he played that now we could simply proceed with the EH attack, but it's a good thing to keep in mind if our elephant gets distracted.
Title: Re: Move 5
Post by RonWeasley on Feb 3rd, 2009, 6:03am
I like this move too.  I looked at a reply 5s hd6w hb6s hc6w hb5s.  This is not bad for gold because the M is on the west side and can defend the e-h attack.

I looked at moves beginning with Cc2w Cb2n, but didn't like the inferior development or getting our C pushed to e5.

Not much other discussion.  If not, we have so few options we might consider a voice vote to save time.  7 votes are required.  If not enough voice votes but no new alternatives, we'll vote tomorrow.  So far the ayes are me, C&G, and Anadac.
Title: Re: Move 5
Post by warren on Feb 3rd, 2009, 7:09am

on 02/03/09 at 06:03:32, RonWeasley wrote:
Not much other discussion.  If not, we have so few options we might consider a voice vote to save time.  7 votes are required.  If not enough voice votes but no new alternatives, we'll vote tomorrow.  So far the ayes are me, C&G, and Anadac.


I also like the H->f3, cat back, dog forward move.
Title: Re: Move 5
Post by UruramTururam on Feb 3rd, 2009, 8:01am
Vote for the above.
Title: Re: Move 5
Post by Oystein on Feb 3rd, 2009, 2:45pm
I also vote for the above.
Title: Re: Move 5
Post by jdb on Feb 3rd, 2009, 4:36pm

on 02/03/09 at 14:45:32, Oystein wrote:
I also vote for the above.

+1
Title: Re: Move 5
Post by arimaa_master on Feb 4th, 2009, 2:21am

on 02/03/09 at 06:03:32, RonWeasley wrote:
 So far the ayes are me, C&G, and Anadac.


Like I already stated - I clearly prefer this move too.
Title: Re: Move 5
Post by woh on Feb 4th, 2009, 4:38am

on 02/03/09 at 07:09:10, warren wrote:
I also like the H->f3, cat back, dog forward move.


I am also in favour of this move.
Title: Re: Move 5
Post by RonWeasley on Feb 4th, 2009, 5:02am
The ayes have it.
Title: Re: Move 5
Post by RonWeasley on Feb 6th, 2009, 4:30am
Fritzlein states in the game chat the this move was exactly what he expected.  He seems starved for attention in TheMob game, so feel free to suggest messages from TheMob.


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