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        Team Games >> 2009 One vs TheMob >> Move 9 
        
(Message started by: Simon on Apr 10^th, 2009, 3:25pm)

Title: Move 9
Post by Simon on Apr 10^th, 2009, 3:25pm

Fritzlein has moved:

8s rh7s rh6s mg5n hd4n

Title: Re: Move 9
Post by Hannoskaj on Apr 10^th, 2009, 3:41pm

First impulse:
He3 Dd2 Eg5 Dh4

We notably have to check what his phant can do to our horse and camel.
But for now, good night and good Easter week-end to all.

Title: Re: Move 9
Post by Adanac on Apr 10^th, 2009, 5:37pm

on 04/10/09 at 15:41:06, Hannoskaj wrote:

First impulse:
He3 Dd2 Eg5 Dh4

We notably have to check what his phant can do to our horse and camel.
But for now, good night and good Easter week-end to all.

That's a decent move, but it's also very dangerous.

9g Hf3w Dd1n Ef5e Dg4e
9s ed3n ed4w ec4w Mc3n

A safer, but very similar idea would be
9g Cb3w Mc3w Ef5e Dg4e

I'm not sure what Fritzlein is planning to do after that.

Title: Re: Move 9
Post by Simon on Apr 10^th, 2009, 6:52pm

Adanac, wouldn't this work as a response to your counter to Hannoskaj's move:

9g Hf3w Dd1n Ef5e Dg4e
9s ed3n ed4w ec4w Mc3n
10g He3w Hd3n Mc4s Hd4s

But still, it looks to me (my look not necessarily being thorough) like Hannoskaj's move results in losing the horse for a camel hostage?

With your move I am somewhat concerned that Fritzlein might go with:

9g Cb3w Mc3w Ef5e Dg4e
9s ed3s Rc2n ed2w cg8s

If we then flip the camel, Fritz could then take the rabbit and then threaten our own camel:

10g (flip)
10s e2cw Mb3n Rc3x eb2n hd5s

and if we don't. we probably have to stop him from getting away with the camel, but we can't do that without letting him get a horse to d3 (which would be problematic since the camel can't get across the trap to take it hostage) or letting him get at our own horse if we try to hold d3 with it. (and, he moves his camel to safety with all these moves - it only takes one step now that 9s unfroze it.)

edit - for 10g we could also put the camel on the trap, but I don't think that would end well for us either.

edit 2 - I tried to sleep but got up when i realized I was kind of assuming we would move the rabbit on the trap east. maybe we could do better leaving it there? But I think we would still lose the rabbit in exchange for his? Or he could move the rabbit south instead?

I haven't given my own idea nearly as much thought as shooting down yours (I could still be wrong about the flaws of course), but I was thinking of

9g Ef5e Dg4e Hf3e Ra2e

kind of a boring move, I admit. Or, perhaps I should say, I hope?

Title: Re: Move 9
Post by warren on Apr 10^th, 2009, 7:29pm

I'm skeptical of the step Ef5e this move. It does threaten his camel but he can defend it easily and it sidelines our elephant. I would be more inclined to move our elephant west, threatening to flip the dog or the horse.

Title: Re: Move 9
Post by Adanac on Apr 11^th, 2009, 5:06am

on 04/10/09 at 19:29:58, warren wrote:

Agreed, I only don't like using a step to move the elephant east if we're going to have to move it west later, anyway. And we can’t threaten the camel if Fritzlein uses 2 steps to save it.

However, if we leave the silver rabbit on h5 and move our elephant west, then we’ll always have to worry about the silver camel intruding on the east side. Our elephant might move west, get drawn back to the east by the camel, move west, get drawn back to the east by the camel, etc.

It’s a problem I often have playing against Fritzlein. If anyone knows a solution to the problem I’d love to learn it :)

We could try something like 9g Dg4s Ef5w hd5s Ee5w but then it just seems like we’re right back where we were a couple of moves ago (except for the silver rabbit on h5). We still have a decent position here, but ideally I’d like to pull the rabbit from h5 to f3 before moving to the west side with the elephant.

Title: Re: Move 9
Post by Adanac on Apr 11^th, 2009, 5:56am

on 04/10/09 at 18:52:51, Simon wrote:

With your move I am somewhat concerned that Fritzlein might go with:

9g Cb3w Mc3w Ef5e Dg4e
9s ed3s Rc2n ed2w cg8s

Good point, I hadn't considered that response. The cat step should be changed to south to avoid this problem:

9g Cb3s Mc3w Ef5e Dg4e
9s ed3n ed4w cg8s mg6e
10g Ra2n Ra3n Dh4s rh5s

I'd love to be able to eliminate that h5 rabbit to mute the threat posed by the silver camel. Somehow I don't think Fritzlein will let us do that easily!

Quote:

9g Ef5e Dg4e Hf3e Ra2e

kind of a boring move, I admit. Or, perhaps I should say, I hope?

This could lead to a camel flip to e3 or d4 (leading to a camel exchange, in the latter case). Ideally, I'd like to keep our camel out of harm's way. But maybe we should think about allowing the camel exchange. Who's winning now? Who would be winning after a camel exchange?

Title: Re: Move 9
Post by jdb on Apr 11^th, 2009, 6:01am

9g Hf3e Dg4e Ha6s ra7s

Nothing too fancy for this move. Silver has all his traps well defended. Gold's traps could use a little more security. The first two steps take care of some tactical weakness on the east side, and the last two steps start a rabbit drag in the west. If gold drags a single rabbit on each side of the board, it will be hard for silver to defend them both.

Title: Re: Move 9
Post by chessandgo on Apr 11^th, 2009, 7:12am

Ok, looks like we dodged the tough lines and got an ok position where silver does not have much threats anymore. Looks good to me.

jdb, I'm not fond of letting silver flip our caMel to e3. Our c3 trap will get extremely weak then.

I prefer Cb3s to Cb3w.

How about:

9g Cb3s Mc3w Dg4e Hf3e

? We don't need to move our phant if we don't have a precise aim with it. Looks like silver does not have much of a plan now. We have also Adanac's

9g Cb3s Mc3w Dg4e Ef5e

if we want to avoid his Rc2 push moves.

Title: Re: Move 9
Post by chessandgo on Apr 11^th, 2009, 7:44am

We only have 5 days reserve, looks to me like this move is the perfect opportunity to regain some reserve time, with no threats for silver and basically no tactics involved.

I like 9g Cb3s Mc3w Dg4e Hf3e a lot, I don't see what silver can play. After 9s ed3swe (Rc2n) I like the flip 10g rh5 to h3. Same after ed3nw x x. Actually I like the flip after about any silver 9s.

Title: Re: Move 9
Post by Adanac on Apr 11^th, 2009, 8:34am

on 04/11/09 at 07:44:10, chessandgo wrote:

I hadn't realized we were down to 5 days reserve until today. I definitely support the idea of playing fast!

I like 9g Cb3s Mc3w Dg4e xxxx

The only reason I like Ef5e as the 4th step is to use 1 step in order to force Fritzlein to use 2 steps to retreat his camel. Of course, it will even out later when our elephant steps back west. But in the meantime we're gaining the immediate initiative on the rabbit pull.

But either way is fine for me. I have no problem with Hf3e for the final step.

Title: Re: Move 9
Post by jdb on Apr 11^th, 2009, 8:46am

on 04/11/09 at 07:44:10, chessandgo wrote:

I like this move better than mine.

Title: Re: Move 9
Post by warren on Apr 11^th, 2009, 12:17pm

on 04/11/09 at 07:44:10, chessandgo wrote:

I looked at 9s ed3nww hd5w after C&G's proposal. We seem to do ok after that.

I support making C&G's move quickly to build reserve.

Title: Re: Move 9
Post by Adanac on Apr 11^th, 2009, 12:46pm

I'll support Chessandgo's move too.

Title: Re: Move 9
Post by Simon on Apr 11^th, 2009, 2:15pm

Quote:

This could lead to a camel flip to e3 or d4

Doh! I noticed e3 (because of the concern last move, i suppose), but somehow managed not to notice the flip to d4.

I'm almost ready to support chessandgo's move, but I think we should try to look for flaws before starting a voice vote (if that's what the people advocating a fast move have in mind).

edit: for example, what do we do after

9s ed3s Rc2s ed2w hd5s ?

edit 2 -

10g Ef5w Ee5w hd4e Ed5s ?

OK, I haven't seen any flaws... but other people might...but anyway I support chessandgo's move until a flaw or a better move is found.

Title: Re: Move 9
Post by Hannoskaj on Apr 12^th, 2009, 11:14am

I agree that since the position is not pressing, gaining clock time is the best, and hence **support C&G's move**, barring any further discussion.

If the move is not supported by everyone:

I must confess I am not entirely convinced by Hg3. After flip we have Dh4 Hg3, and those are rather good targets if the elephant goes away. Moreover if the alternative is taking the rabbit with Dsws Hw, we have lost a full tempo.

On the other hand, it takes the horse out of trap square (so no play against f2 with a silver elephant), and Eg5 takes the elephant further away. Since it entails two moves from Silver, and it's hard to find a good fourth step for us, it might still be better.
But we are ill-prepared if he can find a nice threat on our silver camel as a stepping stone to threaten Ha6: our phant is five steps away from protecting c6 with the pieces as they would stand.

I really do not find a convincing fourth step. Dd2 would just invite flip for example.

By the way, in all those lines, how do we typically defend against play against our Ce2 (flip and so on) ?

Title: Re: Move 9
Post by Adanac on Apr 13^th, 2009, 4:34am

I see our 9th move has been played and we now have (almost) 10 days in reserve. Hopefully Fritzlein plays another passive move so we can do it again ;)

Title: Re: Move 9
Post by RonWeasley on Apr 13^th, 2009, 4:35am

I went ahead and made Cb3s Mc3w Dg4e Hf3e. I like pulling single rabbits, clean home traps, and more reserve time. There was enough vocal support for this move.

Fritz wants more trash talk. I suggest focusing on his passive play, his boring commentary, and his sexual attraction to small, primary-colored, furry animals.