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        Team Games >> 2009 One vs TheMob >> Move 30
        
(Message started by: tize on Jan 23rd, 2010, 6:11am)
Title: Move 30
Post by tize on Jan 23rd, 2010, 6:11am
Fritzlein moved 29b Rb5e ca5e re7e rh5s.

Marwin suggests 30g de6n Ee5n Df5n Df6e to make a rabbit exchange.
Title: Re: Move 30
Post by Nombril on Jan 23rd, 2010, 12:52pm
I like Marwin's suggestion, a few questions:

Do we have a good response if 30s moves the silver elephant to f5  (It seems OK...just looking at possible responses...)

Would de6 be better pushed w or n?  I like the idea of getting a wider alley on the east side of the board to run down.

Will our E need to return to the c3 trap sooner than later, leaving our D out on a limb?  (I think it is OK, it appears our extra cat will slow things down enough that silver won't want to race.)
Title: Re: Move 30
Post by Adanac on Jan 23rd, 2010, 12:59pm

on 01/23/10 at 12:52:31, Nombril wrote:
I like Marwin's suggestion, a few questions:

Do we have a good response if 30s moves the silver elephant to f5  (It seems OK...just looking at possible responses...)

Would de6 be better pushed w or n?  I like the idea of getting a wider alley on the east side of the board to run down.

Will our E need to return to the c3 trap sooner than later, leaving our D out on a limb?  (I think it is OK, it appears our extra cat will slow things down enough that silver won't want to race.)


I'm really surprised that Fritzlein didn't put a rabbit on g6 to prevent our dog from reaching that square on 30g!

Pushing the dog west so that our rabbits have more opportunities (later) to advance up the f-file seems very strong.  I support 30g de6w Ee5n Df5n Df6e.

I'm not worried about the c3 trap now because

30g de6w Ee5n Df5n Df6e
30s db4e dc4s Cc2s dc3s
31g Dg6w Df6e rf7s rf6x Db3s

leaves us in an awesome position to march right up the f-file.
Title: Re: Move 30
Post by tize on Jan 23rd, 2010, 2:19pm

on 01/23/10 at 12:52:31, Nombril wrote:
I like Marwin's suggestion, a few questions:

Do we have a good response if 30s moves the silver elephant to f5  (It seems OK...just looking at possible responses...)


I think that capturing the b6 rabbit with elephant landing on d6 would do just fine.
Title: Re: Move 30
Post by 722caasi on Jan 23rd, 2010, 4:32pm
I like further disrupting silver's piece distribution with de6w Ee5n Df5n Df6e
Title: Re: Move 30
Post by Nombril on Jan 25th, 2010, 11:31am

on 01/23/10 at 12:59:00, Adanac wrote:
I'm really surprised that Fritzlein didn't put a rabbit on g6 to prevent our dog from reaching that square on 30g!

So, assuming this wasn't a blunder, what is Fritzlein trying to accomplish with rh5s?

30g de6w Ee5n Df5n Df6e

30s rh4wwww ?
or
30s rh4www ed3e?


I had asked about 30s: e 4 steps to f5, response was:

on 01/23/10 at 14:19:22, tize wrote:
I think that capturing the b6 rabbit with elephant landing on d6 would do just fine.

This is a compelling reason to push the dog north instead of west.  Does anyone else see advantages of pushing the dog north vs. west?

Right now, I'm back to preferring:
30g de6n Ee5n Df5n Df6e
Title: Re: Move 30
Post by RonWeasley on Jan 25th, 2010, 2:07pm

on 01/25/10 at 11:31:56, Nombril wrote:
Does anyone else see advantages of pushing the dog north vs. west?

Right now, I'm back to preferring:
30g de6n Ee5n Df5n Df6e

I'm preferring north also because if the f7 rabbit leaves, the dog stays frozen and threatened.
Title: Re: Move 30
Post by chessandgo on Jan 26th, 2010, 2:13am
Unless tactics are insanely better for us with silver's dog on e7 rather than d6, we should push it to d6 to cut the last defending piece off the east. For example:

30g de6w Ee5n Df5n Df6e
30s db4e dc4s Cc2w dc3s
31g Rf2n Rf3n Rf4n Rf5n

is probably a forced goal. Things look bad enough for silver in the east that he might bring his elephant to defense:

30g de6w Ee5n Df5n Df6e
30s ed3n ed4e ee4e ef4n

and maybe

31g Ee6s hd5s Ee5w Dg6n might get a horse (for D maybe, or dr)

I think the point of rh5s on 29s is to tie our g3 Horse to defense (certainly not to move west), but it really looks rh6w would have been much better. The rg5 being frozen make silver lose another step to move his r to f5 to defend f6. But maybe it also creates a path for silver's horse to come towards g6, like in:

30g de6(n/w) Ee5n Df5n Df6e
30s ed3e ee3n hd5e he5e
31g Ee6s hf5s Ee5e Rd2n
31s hf4e rg5e de7s hg4n

Well, if we push the de6n on 30g, we can take the rabbit with a goal attack

31g Ee6w Ed6w Ec6e rb6e rc6x
31s hf5n hf6s Dg6w Df6x db4e
32g Db3n cb5w Db4n Rc5n
32s de7w rf7w dd7w dc4n
33g Ed6e Rc6x Ee6s hf5n hf6x Ee5e
which looks good.

We can also
30g de6w Ee5n Rf2n Rf3n
but it does not seem to work after
30s Rc5n Rc6x cb5e rh6w ed3e
for example
31g Df5n rf7e Df6n Rf4n
31s ee3n ee4n Rf5s ee5e


Ok, so actually
30g de6w Ee5n Df5n Df6e
30s ed3n ed4e hd5e he5e

looks like the best defense for silver to me. I'm not sure how we meet that, like:

30g de6w Ee5n Df5n Df6e
30s ed3n ed4e hd5e he5e
31g Ee6e hf5s Ef6s
31s hf4e dd6e Rc5n Rc6x cb5e

is a good outcome for silver.

So in the end I guess we might be better off with
30g de6n Ee5n Df5n Df6e

even if it looks very strange, as we threaten a c6 capture,

30s ed3n ed4e hd5e he5e
31g Ee6w Ed6w Ec6e rb6e rc6x
31s hf5n hf6s Dg6w Df6x db4e
32g Db3n cb5w Db4n Rc5n
32s de7w rf7w dd7w dc4n

or

31s hf5n hf6s Dg6w Df6x ee4w
32g Db3e Dc3n Rc5n Rc6n

looking good for us.
Title: Re: Move 30
Post by chessandgo on Jan 28th, 2010, 8:32am
Ok, so

30g de6n Ee5n Df5n Df6e
30s ed3n ed4e hd5e he5e
31g Ee6w Ed6w Ec6e rb6e rc6x

is the line that I'm looking at, but maybe
31s hf5n hf6s Dg6w Df6x rb8e
32g Db3e Dc3n Rc5n Rc6n
32s cb5n cb6n cb7n Rc7w

leaves us stuck?

If silver has no good 31s, I'd be in favour of this 30g de6n Ee5n Df5n Df6e, but if it does not prevent silver's horse form reaching f5, this move would feel pointless since we would have no strong attack around f6, but rather Dog hostage trouble. We might have to look for something else. For example I think I was too pessimistic maybe with


30g de6w Ee5n Rf2n Rf3n
30s Rc5n Rc6x cb5e ed3e rh6w
as we have things like
31g Df5n rg5w Rf4e Rg4n

which looks strong (same move vs an hd5e last step for 30s). So how about this 30g? Maybe silver cannot capture on c6, but should rather play 30s ed3e ee3n rh6w hd5e, and I'm not sure if we can find a good continuation?
Title: Re: Move 30
Post by Nombril on Jan 29th, 2010, 4:41am
OK, so now I think leaving g6 open was a trap by Silver to get our dog cut off from help.

What about
30g Df5s D4f3e rh4s Dg4s

If silver takes the rabbit on 30s, we can at least frame a rabbit.

I think with any of the suggested moves, we are generating enough threat (but no escape chances for our rabbit!) that silver will not take our rabbit on 30s but can safely wait.
Title: Re: Move 30
Post by RonWeasley on Jan 29th, 2010, 6:11am
So now I'm looking at

30g Rf2n Rf3n rg5s Df5e

Gold gets a pesky goal threat in the empty NE corner.  If the silver e comes east to cover, gold pushes the silver h south as an effective hostage.  If silver retreats the h to d6, gold puts E on e6 and D on g6, committing the silver e to f5 and the gold H cleans up silver's east side rabbits.  If silver e pushes R to f3, R->h3 protects the h from the silver e in the long run (silver r on g4 and h4 block it) and the D gets more safety by pushing the f7 rabbit to f8, threatening the silver dog on e6.

Overall, I'm hoping this move separates the silver e and h, and overloads silver e to protect goal threat in northeast, rabbits captures on f3, and horse/dog threat by gold E on c3 and f3.  Please look for problems with this.
Title: Re: Move 30
Post by jdb on Jan 29th, 2010, 6:35am

on 01/29/10 at 06:11:18, RonWeasley wrote:
So now I'm looking at

30g Rf2n Rf3n rg5s Df5e

Gold gets a pesky goal threat in the empty NE corner.  If the silver e comes east to cover, gold pushes the silver h south as an effective hostage.  If silver retreats the h to d6, gold puts E on e6 and D on g6, committing the silver e to f5 and the gold H cleans up silver's east side rabbits.  If silver e pushes R to f3, R->h3 protects the h from the silver e in the long run (silver r on g4 and h4 block it) and the D gets more safety by pushing the f7 rabbit to f8, threatening the silver dog on e6.

Overall, I'm hoping this move separates the silver e and h, and overloads silver e to protect goal threat in northeast, rabbits captures on f3, and horse/dog threat by gold E on c3 and f3.  Please look for problems with this.


This type of approach looks promising. Advancing the rabbit puts more pressure on silver, than controlling the trap directly. If there are no tactical problems, this is a good move to play.
Title: Re: Move 30
Post by Nombril on Jan 30th, 2010, 1:57pm
I like this much better than my suggestion.
Title: Re: Move 30
Post by RonWeasley on Feb 1st, 2010, 7:09am
We're using our reserve now.  I'll entertain voice votes for 30g Rf2n Rf3n rg5s Df5e.  I'll count me as one, but not others as this move is only hesitantly endorsed.  I'll move if there are 6 voice votes and we save time.  Otherwise I will start a formal vote tomorrow.
Title: Re: Move 30
Post by Hannoskaj on Feb 1st, 2010, 8:52am
I'm in. I like this move a lot.

Fritz will probably play elephant to e3, with latent goal threat if we just move our f4 rabbit, then three steps, maybe transferring back-row rabbits to the east. Notice that Silver rg6 is bad in the foreseeable future, as long as our rabbit can still use the h column.
Title: Re: Move 30
Post by Nombril on Feb 1st, 2010, 7:43pm
+1
Title: Re: Move 30
Post by Adanac on Feb 1st, 2010, 8:51pm
I like this move too.  Up to 4 votes now I believe.
Title: Re: Move 30
Post by Manuel on Feb 2nd, 2010, 12:00am
+1
Title: Re: Move 30
Post by jdb on Feb 2nd, 2010, 1:34am
+1
Title: Re: Move 30
Post by chessandgo on Feb 2nd, 2010, 3:21am
yeah, looks good, I guess i'm the seventh in :)
Title: Re: Move 30
Post by RonWeasley on Feb 2nd, 2010, 5:24am
Then I'll do it.


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