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        Team Games >> 2009 One vs TheMob >> Move 33
        
(Message started by: RonWeasley on Mar 25th, 2010, 1:15pm)
Title: Move 33
Post by RonWeasley on Mar 25th, 2010, 1:15pm
Silver moves 32s hc5e hd5s Re5w db4e.

Just like we predicted.
Title: Re: Move 33
Post by Nombril on Mar 26th, 2010, 4:22am
Ron, are you doing any trash talk in the moves?  I saw something earlier about it.  I wonder if we should tell Fritzlein that quad is correctly predicting his moves?

I went through the Move 32 thread to pull out some of the suggested responses, in order of appearance.  I've put in some first impressions and questions.


on 03/09/10 at 01:52:53, chessandgo wrote:
I think that:
32g Hg3s rg4s rg3w rf3x Hg2n
32s hc5e hd5s Re5w db4e
33g dd6w Ee6w Rd5e Ed6e
is fine, silver could semi-repeat the position with:
33s hd4n hd5w Re5w dc6e
34g Rd2n Rd3n Rd5e Re2n

This looks good for us, the extra advanced Rabbits make this exchange excellent for gold, so I don't think silver can afford such a 33s move.
I'm developing more respect for the no-repeat rule.  If we like the position and our opponent doesn't, why not force Fritzlein to take a less desirable position?

on 03/10/10 at 18:59:09, aaaa wrote:
Principal variation from bot:

32g Hg3e rg4s rg3w rf3x Hh3w
32s db4e hc5e hd5s Re5w
33g Re2n Hg3e Hh3w rh4s
33s hd4s hd3w Db3n hc3w
34g dd6w Ee6w Rd2n Ed6e
I don't like the idea of advancing the silver rabbit.  If we need to take the rh4, will we move it west and put our rabbit on h4?  (Yes, this is a little longer...)

on 03/11/10 at 06:13:59, RonWeasley wrote:
An alternative 33g dd6n Ee6w Rd5e Dg6n leads to sharp play where I so far believe silver stops the goal threat and gold retains slight advantage.  But I don't recommend inviting sharp positions against Fritzlein if we don't have to.
Would Fritlzein be able to work his horse over to our advanced dog?

on 03/12/10 at 06:36:43, RonWeasley wrote:
If we take the g4 rabbit now, I'm no longer worried about 32s db4e hc5e hd5s Re5w, because gold can play

33g Dg6n Ee6s Ee5s Re2e

and in all lines I see gold getting the silver horse hostage, which would be winning on this board.  A silver goal attack on the east can be stopped and retreating the horse gives up the silver dog.
Title: Re: Move 33
Post by Hannoskaj on Mar 26th, 2010, 5:28am
From the time I had spent on that possibility on the former move, I liked best chessandgo's suggestion.
Title: Re: Move 33
Post by RonWeasley on Mar 26th, 2010, 7:49am

on 03/26/10 at 04:22:56, Nombril wrote:
Ron, are you doing any trash talk in the moves?  I saw something earlier about it.  I wonder if we should tell Fritzlein that quad is correctly predicting his moves?


That's a good suggestion.  I haven't been doing a lot of trash talk, but telling him he's playing just like a bot, even a good one like quad, is sufficiently insulting.  Previously I told him he had nothing to worry about when we took his cat.  Before that I told him we were waterboarding his camel after we took it hostage.

I've looked at a few positions and like chessandgo's dd6w Ee6w Rd5e Ed6e best.  The move I suggested before seems to give silver more play.

If mobsters like this currently popular move, we could voice vote it and get back some of our time reserve, which helps us more than it helps Fritz.
Title: Re: Move 33
Post by Nombril on Mar 26th, 2010, 10:48am
Thinking about possible responses to:
33g dd6w Ee6w Rd5e Ed6e

The silver horse does slow down additional gold rabbits from advancing up the center. Are we OK with the possibility of our e5 rabbit standing between our Elephant and Fritz's horse?  Something along the lines of:

33s dc6e cb5ee hd4s

I'm not sure how to respond to this, maybe
34g Re2n Rd2e Re3n Re2n
or
34g Cc2n Rd2w Rh2n Re2e

Do folks think this or some other 34g would be OK for us?


I agree building some reserve would be good, but wouldn't mind hearing opinions about the above, and also thinking about going after the horse with:
33g Dg6n Ee6s Ee5s Re2e
Title: Re: Move 33
Post by Hannoskaj on Mar 27th, 2010, 2:40am

Quote:
The silver horse does slow down additional gold rabbits from advancing up the center. Are we OK with the possibility of our e5 rabbit standing between our Elephant and Fritz's horse?  Something along the lines of:

33s dc6e cb5ee hd4s


This looks like an excellent Silver defense indeed.
An aggressive and dangerous possible reply would be something like
34g Db3b5 Ca3b3 Re2e3

On 33g Dg6n Ee6s Ee5s Re2e, I'll just quote the latest talk we had on the former move:

Quote:



>> What do you have on
>> 33s rd5c5 Hd4d5 rc5c6x Dc4c5 ?
>> For example
>> 34g Ee4c4d4 dc5c4
>> 34s Cb5c5 Dc4b4 Hd5e6
>> is certainly playable, but  does not look final.





On 34g, I propose continuing:

34g Ee4n hd5s Ee5w Rd2n
34s dc5s Rd3e hd4s ef5s
35g Ed5s hd3s Ed4s Re3e
35s ef4e Rf3n Rf4n eg4w
36g rf7s rf6x Dg7w Db3n Ca3e

and getting a hostage horse in similar lines.
Title: Re: Move 33
Post by Manuel on Mar 29th, 2010, 6:10am

on 03/27/10 at 02:40:07, Hannoskaj wrote:
This looks like an excellent Silver defense indeed.
An aggressive and dangerous possible reply would be something like
34g Db3b5 Ca3b3 Re2e3


I would not really like
33g dd6w Ee6w Rd5e Ed6e
33s dc6e cb5ee hd4s
34g Db3b5 Ca3b3 Re2e3
34s hd3e Cb3e hc3e hb3n
Title: Re: Move 33
Post by RonWeasley on Mar 29th, 2010, 8:25am

on 03/29/10 at 06:10:24, Manuel wrote:
I would not really like
33g dd6w Ee6w Rd5e Ed6e
33s dc6e cb5ee hd4s
34g Db3b5 Ca3b3 Re2e3
34s hd3e Cb3e hc3e hb3n

In response, 35g dd6w Ee6w Re3n Re5n.  Silver can defend and I think gold maintains a slight advantage but silver has counterplay around c3, which I really don't like either.

I worry about 34s dc4w Cb3e db4s ra4s.

Based on this and Hannoskaj's comments, I am now more in favor of the safer
33g Dg6n Ee6s Ee5s Re2e
Title: Re: Move 33
Post by Nombril on Mar 29th, 2010, 11:40pm
Assuming Fritzlein figures out the h can't escape, will he look for something better to do?

33g Dg6n Ee6s Ee5s Re2e
33s - flip our rabbit into trap with dd6
34g -  start to hostage the horse (hd4s Ee4w Rd2e +1step)
34s - e pulls our H

It still seems to work in our favor, but thought I would ask if anyone saw some response for silver besides trying to run away.
Title: Re: Move 33
Post by chessandgo on Mar 30th, 2010, 1:10am

on 03/26/10 at 10:48:47, Nombril wrote:
33g dd6w Ee6w Rd5e Ed6e
33s dc6e cb5ee hd4s


34g Re2n Rd2e Re3n Re2n, or any move that advances Rabbits and puts something on e4, looks great for us. The g-file is open, so we just need to shove a rabbit up, even if silver manages to block the center (by using many pieces). Silver has no plan (taking hold of c3 would be much too long), so we're in great shape.

33s dc6e cb5ee hd4e looks like a better defense (but silver not even has the "attack c3" plan, and we still have the "Rabbit up g-file" plan).

I don't even want to look at horse capture possibilities because we want to goal :)
Title: Re: Move 33
Post by Manuel on Mar 30th, 2010, 2:00am

on 03/30/10 at 01:10:50, chessandgo wrote:
34g Re2n Rd2e Re3n Re2n, or any move that advances Rabbits and puts something on e4, looks great for us. The g-file is open, so we just need to shove a rabbit up, even if silver manages to block the center (by using many pieces). Silver has no plan (taking hold of c3 would be much too long), so we're in great shape.

33s dc6e cb5ee hd4e looks like a better defense (but silver not even has the "attack c3" plan, and we still have the "Rabbit up g-file" plan).

I don't even want to look at horse capture possibilities because we want to goal :)


After
33g dd6w Ee6w Rd5e Ed6e
33s dc6e cb5ee hd4s
34g Re2n Rd2e Re3n Re2n
34s cd5s Re5w Rd5w cd4n
I don't really see how this path helps us goaling.

I think we should go after the horse or continue killing the eastwing rabbits.
Title: Re: Move 33
Post by Hannoskaj on Mar 30th, 2010, 4:12am

on 03/30/10 at 02:00:37, Manuel wrote:
After
33g dd6w Ee6w Rd5e Ed6e
33s dc6e cb5ee hd4s
34g Re2n Rd2e Re3n Re2n
34s cd5s Re5w Rd5w cd4n
I don't really see how this path helps us goaling.


I think chessandgo's idea is to play 35g Re3g5, with pressure from e4 rabbit and the threat 36g Dg6f6 Hg3g4 Rg5g7.


Title: Re: Move 33
Post by RonWeasley on Mar 30th, 2010, 4:31am

on 03/30/10 at 01:10:50, chessandgo wrote:
34g Re2n Rd2e Re3n Re2n, or any move that advances Rabbits and puts something on e4, looks great for us. The g-file is open, so we just need to shove a rabbit up, even if silver manages to block the center (by using many pieces). Silver has no plan (taking hold of c3 would be much too long), so we're in great shape.

33s dc6e cb5ee hd4e looks like a better defense (but silver not even has the "attack c3" plan, and we still have the "Rabbit up g-file" plan).

I don't even want to look at horse capture possibilities because we want to goal :)

I had the same worry as Nombril.  If I understand, you see the following line:

33g dd6w Ee6w Rd5e Ed6e
33s cb5e cc5e hd4s dc6e
34g Re2n Rd2e Re3n Re2n
34s cd5s Re5w Rd5w cd4n
35g Re3e Rf3n Rf4e Rg4n

which looks strong to me.  Is this right?

After 33s cb5e cc5e dc6e hd4e, what is gold's response?  We want to keep the silver horse away from the g-file and hostaging the gold dog.  34g Hg3n Rh1w Rg1n Rg2n?
Title: Re: Move 33
Post by RonWeasley on Mar 30th, 2010, 11:31am
I think we can vote tomorrow.  Final arguments, please.  Our contenders are:

1) 33g dd6w Ee6w Rd5e Ed6e  and
2) 33g Dg6n Ee6s Ee5s Re2e

Given the latest guidance by C&G about following 1) with rabbits up the g-file, I'm leaning slightly toward that one, but I think we're winning with the other one too.
Title: Re: Move 33
Post by Nombril on Mar 30th, 2010, 5:47pm

on 03/30/10 at 01:10:50, chessandgo wrote:
I don't even want to look at horse capture possibilities because we want to goal :)


I totally agree - if we are confident it won't fizzle out.  I had been focused on the center and thought that could be blocked - but missed that would leave the g-file vulnerable.  I don't see a way for Fritzlein to stop goal in both spots, so I am much more confident about pressing forward with the goal attack.

For
33g dd6w Ee6w Rd5e Ed6e
33s cb5e cc5e hd4e dc6e
Ron's
34g Hg3n Rh1w Rg1n Rg2n
looks good to me.

If you are putting it to a voice vote,
+1 for 33g dd6w Ee6w Rd5e Ed6e
Title: Re: Move 33
Post by chessandgo on Mar 31st, 2010, 9:59am
Ron's/Hannoskaj's 35g looks good indeed. I was not seeing anything, I just wanted to mention that capturing silver's horse in return for our Rd5 and Dg6 would be a minor achievement, and that advancing more Rabbits would certainly lead to major achievement (not even thinking about specifcs). It's like in the final WC game's commentary, the commentators spend most of the post move 15 game talking about the camel around g3 when the focus was on who would get the stonger goal attack. Here it felt like most of the talk revolved around horse capture plans, which is of minor importance compared to goal attack. Maybe going after the horse is the best move, but if so then the reason for it must be that our goal attack is hopeless (which should be checked first, as in any endgame).

33s cb5e cc5e dc6e hd4e
34g Hg3n Rh1w Rg1n Rg2n
looks fine, or maybe 34g Hg3n Rh2n with the idea of pulling the rh4 to g4 to advance with the Rh3.
Title: Re: Move 33
Post by RonWeasley on Apr 1st, 2010, 11:30am
Only seven votes, but everybody chooses 33g dd6w Ee6w Rd5e Ed6e.

If Fritz reverses the move, I think I have permission to make this move again and gain reserve time.
Title: Re: Move 33
Post by Hippo on Apr 1st, 2010, 12:24pm
OK let you reverse it back, both sides would gain a week to reserve and Fritz should thing about another answer anyway.
Title: Re: Move 33
Post by Nombril on Apr 1st, 2010, 5:26pm
I agree as well.  But I doubt Fritz will want to give us an extra week of reserve, especially with the postal mixer starting up soon!


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