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        Team Games >> 2009 One vs TheMob >> Move 39
        
(Message started by: jdb on May 29th, 2010, 12:18pm)
Title: Move 39
Post by jdb on May 29th, 2010, 12:18pm
Fritz plays

38b Hg3w eg4s rh4s rb8e
Title: Re: Move 39
Post by arimaa_master on May 29th, 2010, 1:58pm

on 05/22/10 at 06:03:48, chessandgo wrote:
Also 39g Rd2e Re2n Rf2e Ec5e seems to pretty much kill the game (I guess the resulting position should be a goal in 3/4 or 5 maybe).


I definitely like this 39g  Rd2e Re2n Rf2e Ec5e - I agree on a quick goal - I donīt see how Fritz can defend.

Here bots can help greatly - JDB can you find out what does Clueless suggest for the best defence (or better approve 39g  Rd2e Re2n Rf2e Ec5e to be goal in x moves)?
Title: Re: Move 39
Post by 722caasi on May 29th, 2010, 4:28pm
What do we do about 39s eg3s eg2n Rh2w rh3s? Seems to me that 39g Rd2e Re2n Rf2e Ec5e loses in 2.
Title: Re: Move 39
Post by Sconibulus on May 29th, 2010, 4:36pm
g2 is occupied, so that 39s doesn't work, however, Fritz can play Rg2w ef3s rh6ss, which looks dangerous, although I think we can block it fairly well with 40g Hf3nes rh4w
Title: Re: Move 39
Post by jdb on May 29th, 2010, 7:42pm

on 05/29/10 at 13:58:54, arimaa_master wrote:
I definitely like this 39g  Rd2e Re2n Rf2e Ec5e - I agree on a quick goal - I donīt see how Fritz can defend.

Here bots can help greatly - JDB can you find out what does Clueless suggest for the best defence (or better approve 39g  Rd2e Re2n Rf2e Ec5e to be goal in x moves)?


This is a win for SILVER.

D:12 00:46.03 WON 4        rh6s rh5s Rg2w eg3s Hf3n Hf4e Hg4s rh4w hg6e hh6s hh5s Rg5e rf7s rf6x Dg7w Ed5n Ed6s
F:12 00:46.03 WON 4        Nodes: 1906827 QNodes: 1136331 QDefNodes: 2696023 QAttNodes: 190355 kNPS: 41
Title: Re: Move 39
Post by Nombril on May 29th, 2010, 8:03pm
I think all 4 moves on defense are required this time.

39g Rd2e Re2n Rf2e Hf3s  ?

I think we have more than 5 turns to go!
Title: Re: Move 39
Post by jdb on May 29th, 2010, 10:45pm
Clueless likes:
39g Hf3n Rf2e Ec5e Hf4e

All of these are forced goals:

39s rh6s rh5s Rg2w eg3s
40g Hg4s rh4w Cc2n Rc4n Cc3x

39s Rg2s eg3s rh3w eg2w
40g Rd2n Cc2e Rd3w Cd2e

39s Hg4w eg3n rh6s rc8s
40g Cc2n Rc4n Cc3x Rc5n Ed5n

39s Hg4w eg3n rc8s ca5e
40g Rd2e Cc2n Rc4n Cc3x Rc5n

Edit:
typo, last step should be Hf4e
Title: Re: Move 39
Post by Nombril on May 30th, 2010, 3:58am
I like this much better than my suggestion last night.  With my move we will be locked into a lot of steps for a few turns, and could probably end up loosing our DR by the f6 trap.

Though I think Clueless is actually looking at 39g Hf3n Rf2e Ec5e Hf4e based on the 40g move.

39s Hg4w eg3n rc8s rh6s
could stall for a bit?

If Fritz moves rh6ss, we can get a forced goal down the h files pretty quickly.  So I would expect he will look for something else to do.

I don't like the cat sac unless we have a forced goal.
Title: Re: Move 39
Post by chessandgo on May 30th, 2010, 5:19am

on 05/29/10 at 19:42:57, jdb wrote:
This is a win for SILVER.
h6s rh5s Rg2w eg3s Hf3n Hf4e Hg4s rh4w hg6e hh6s hh5s

ouch


on 05/29/10 at 22:45:22, jdb wrote:
Clueless likes:
39g Hf3n Rf2e Ec5e Hf4e
39s rh6s rh5s Rg2w eg3s
40g Hg4s rh4w Cc2n Rc4n Cc3x

This looks good indeed. The Hg3 can't be captured on 39s I think

39g Hf3n Rf2e Ec5e Hf4e
39s Hg4w eg3n Hf4s Hf3x eg4w
40g Rg2n Cc2n Rc4n Cc3x Rc5n


on 05/30/10 at 03:58:39, Nombril wrote:
39s Hg4w eg3n rc8s rh6s
could stall for a bit?

I don't like the cat sac unless we have a forced goal.


39g Hf3n Rf2e Ec5e Hf4e
39s Hg4w eg3n rh6s rc8s
40g Cc2n Rc4n Cc3x Rc5n Ed5n is a forced goal maybe?

And in jdb's line the cat sac looks very much like a forced goal, unless you found a defense?
Title: Re: Move 39
Post by jdb on May 30th, 2010, 6:05am
The original post has been updated with the forced goals for the following move:

39g Hf3n Rf2e Ec5e Hf4e


Clueless has not found a defense for this move, so far. It should finish checking all the moves in the next day or two. If there is any specific move someone is interested in, I can have clueless take a look.
Title: Re: Move 39
Post by Nombril on May 30th, 2010, 6:43am
I'm comfortable with both cat sac's in Clueless's lines.  I hadn't seen the 4th step using Ed5n to force goal.  I guess I was overly pessimistic yesterday thinking we had more than 5 turns left.  I think I have mentioned before how slow my goal attack can be - it is great to see some of these possibilities.
Title: Re: Move 39
Post by arimaa_master on May 30th, 2010, 10:24am

on 05/29/10 at 19:42:57, jdb wrote:
39g Rd2e Re2n Rf2e Ec5e

This is a win for SILVER.

D:12 00:46.03 WON 4        rh6s rh5s Rg2w eg3s Hf3n Hf4e Hg4s rh4w hg6e hh6s hh5s Rg5e rf7s rf6x Dg7w Ed5n Ed6s
F:12 00:46.03 WON 4        Nodes: 1906827 QNodes: 1136331 QDefNodes: 2696023 QAttNodes: 190355 kNPS: 41


That's why I called for bots help :)
It is great to have Clueless for disposal - thank you
Title: Re: Move 39
Post by arimaa_master on May 30th, 2010, 10:28am

on 05/30/10 at 06:05:22, jdb wrote:
The original post has been updated with the forced goals for the following move:

39g Hf3n Rf2e Ec5e Hf4e


Clueless has not found a defense for this move, so far. It should finish checking all the moves in the next day or two. If there is any specific move someone is interested in, I can have clueless take a look.


The 4th step is really cool - I wouldnīt find it in this century :)

Great! Let's wait and if it will be ok then finish it! :)
Title: Re: Move 39
Post by Arimabuff on May 30th, 2010, 11:34am
I think that the fewer pieces there are on the board the stronger the bots get vis a vis the humans. Chances are that in this game we have reached the point where Clueless is better than any human including Fritz.
Title: Re: Move 39
Post by RonWeasley on May 30th, 2010, 3:56pm

on 05/30/10 at 06:05:22, jdb wrote:
If there is any specific move someone is interested in, I can have clueless take a look.

I was going to suggest 39g Hf3w Rf2e Rd2e Re2e.  What does clueless think of that?
Title: Re: Move 39
Post by jdb on May 30th, 2010, 5:17pm
Clueless has finished looking at:

39g Hf3n Rf2e Ec5e Hf4e

It is a forced win for gold. It took 9 hours to show that silver has no defence.

D:16 03:19.68 LOST 5       rh6s rh5s Rg2w eg3s Hg4s rh4w Cc2n Rc4n Cc3x ca5e ra6s Rc5s cb5e Ed5e Ee5e Rg5e Ef5e Rc4s Rc3x cc5s rc8e rd8e
D:16 33:32.35 LOST 7       rc8s ca5e Hg4w eg3n Rd2e Cc2n Rc4n Cc3x Rc5n hg6w hf6w he6n he7w Dg7s Rg5w Rf5w Re5n rf7w eg4n eg5s Dg6s Rc6e Db6e Dc6w rc7s rc6x
D:16 03:07:20 -30545       Rg2s eg3s rh3w eg2w Hg4e rg3n Hh4n rg4e hg6w Rg5n hf6s Rg6w Rf6x Ed5e
F:16 03:19:09 -30545       Nodes: 2161999454 QNodes: 2287223477 QDefNodes: 2067090396 QAttNodes: 882056 kNPS: 180
Possible moves:966
D:17 03:39:42 -61860       Rg2s eg3s rh3w eg2w Rg5w Hg4w rg3n Rf5w hg6w hf6w he6n rc8s Re5n Ed5n Dg7s rf7e Re6s he7s ef2w dd4e
F:17 04:00:05 -61860       Nodes: 2402089378 QNodes: 2547124502 QDefNodes: 2251197975 QAttNodes: 882056 kNPS: 166
Possible moves:966
D:18 05:00:45 LOST 7       Rg2s eg3s rh3w eg2w Rd2n Cc2e Rd3w Cd2e ef2s Ce2e Cf2n Cf3x ef1n Rg5w Hg4n rg3n Rc4n Rc3x
F:18 08:34:03 LOST 7       Nodes: 5832377368 QNodes: 5845007423 QDefNodes: 6461325735 QAttNodes: 882056 kNPS: 189
Trying desperate moves!
Title: Re: Move 39
Post by chessandgo on May 31st, 2010, 12:59am
cool, thanks a lot for running clueless jdb! So 39g Hf3n Rf2e Ec5e Hf4e has my vote :)

In how many moves is this a goal?
Title: Re: Move 39
Post by jdb on May 31st, 2010, 1:49am
It is a goal in 4.
Title: Re: Move 39
Post by Arimabuff on May 31st, 2010, 2:22am
What are we waiting for then?
Title: Re: Move 39
Post by Hippo on May 31st, 2010, 6:00am
My vote for the silicon move. I missed the discussion :) but let us win...
Title: Re: Move 39
Post by RonWeasley on May 31st, 2010, 7:27am
I'll vote for it too.  I'm still interested in what clueless thinks of my other move suggestion.  I'm guessing gold still wins, but maybe slower.

The normally contributing mobsters haven't all responded yet, but it's obvious that we have found a good move.  So I'll make it now.


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