Arimaa Forum - Print Page


    
      
        Arimaa Forum
        (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/forum/cgi/YaBB.cgi)
      

        Arimaa >> Bot Development >> 2011 computer championship participants?
        
(Message started by: rbarreira on Nov 19^th, 2010, 9:13am)

Title: 2011 computer championship participants?
Post by rbarreira on Nov 19^th, 2010, 9:13am

So far I'm the only one who has registered a bot for the 2011 WCC. I hope there are lots of participants, so I thought it might be a good idea to remind people that the registration is open. In less than two weeks the registration fee will increase in fact!

I suppose the usual participants will be there, what other first time participants will be there? Will bot_quad participate this year for example?

Title: Re: 2011 computer championship participants?
Post by Janzert on Nov 19^th, 2010, 11:48pm

on 11/19/10 at 09:13:52, rbarreira wrote:

In less than two weeks the registration fee will increase in fact!

Really? Where is that mentioned?

I and most developers I think usually wait until well into December before registering.

Janzert

Title: Re: 2011 computer championship participants?
Post by rbarreira on Nov 20^th, 2010, 5:46am

See the first table on this page:

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/wc/2011/prizefund/

Title: Re: 2011 computer championship participants?
Post by Fritzlein on Nov 20^th, 2010, 8:41am

I don't really understand why we have to register for the World Championship and World Computer Championship a month in advance of the preliminaries/qualifying in order to avoid a penalty fee. For some events it is important for the organizers to know how large a playing hall to rent, how many lunches to order, etc. For on-line tournaments, however, nothing changes if twice or half as many people register. Thus an early deadline seems like an inconvenience for the participants that doesn't create any corresponding convenience for the organizers.

But if one month is barely tolerable, requiring registration two months in advance (for the Spectator Contest) or four months in advance (for the Postal Mixer) seems absurd. To use my case as an example, I expect that I will be a part time student next semester, but what if it turns out that I am full-time and that, come April, I am swamped heading into finals? Why did I have to pay for the Postal Mixer before December first, or else get charged $20 instead of $10? How would it hurt the tournament structure if I could wait until April 1 to decide whether or not to play?

Title: Re: 2011 computer championship participants?
Post by Janzert on Nov 21^st, 2010, 10:58pm

Hmm, it should really mention the price increase on the tournament pages and rules as well since there it just says:

Quote:

All developers (or teams) are expected to make a contribution of $10 USD to the prize fund.

Janzert

Title: Re: 2011 computer championship participants?
Post by omar on Nov 22^nd, 2010, 2:36pm

Brian, you're right I should have mentioned that on the event info pages. Since I forgot, I'm going to just change the prize fund page so that there is no difference in the registration fee based on when you register.

Karl, the reduced early registration was not for logistic purposes. Those who make an early commitment are helping encourage others to participate. I really do think that people are encouraged to participate if they see that others are also participating. So it was a small benefit provided for those who break the ice and register early. Of course one could also look at it as a penalty for registering later. But either way it won't make any difference for you since you would be contributing more than the minimum :-) In past years, there have been players who registered for the events and had to back out last minute. Life is unpredictable and situations are always changing. I gave back the registration fee in those cases and would definitely continue to do that. So regardless of when you register, if you find that you can't participate you can let me know to get back the registration fee. I've made a note to mention this on the event info pages.

Title: Re: 2011 computer championship participants?
Post by Adanac on Nov 24^th, 2010, 9:37am

Thanks for decreasing the entry fees after December 1st Omar. I really think that will boost participation rates because $20 for 1 event would have been prohibitive for some of the newer players.

If someone joins (only) the Postal Tournament in April, will those fees be added to the following year's Prize Fund (since this year's prizes will presumably already have been paid out)?

And now for a bit of cheerleading: If you're new to arimaa.com and you're unsure about whether to join the events, I'd say give it a try! Playing and watching the World Championship games are really exciting and the Spectator Contest makes a good thing even better. I'm not a bot developer, but I imagine that watching your bot compete in the Computer Championship is great fun too. All the events are totally worth the relatively small entry costs. 8)

Title: Re: 2011 computer championship participants?
Post by omar on Nov 25^th, 2010, 10:32pm

on 11/24/10 at 09:37:34, Adanac wrote:

If someone joins (only) the Postal Tournament in April, will those fees be added to the following year's Prize Fund (since this year's prizes will presumably already have been paid out)?

Postal Mixer registration ends on April 1st. I usually send the prizes after the challenge match is over; which will be later in April. So it will still be applied to the 2011 Prize Fund.

Title: Re: 2011 computer championship participants?
Post by Fritzlein on Nov 29^th, 2010, 2:15pm

on 11/25/10 at 22:32:41, omar wrote:

Postal Mixer registration ends on April 1st. I usually send the prizes after the challenge match is over; which will be later in April. So it will still be applied to the 2011 Prize Fund.

Hmmm, that's still a logistical problem. What if 99of9 waits to register for the Postal Mixer until he knows that GnoBot has taken third place in the Computer Championship? Then he could enter the Postal Mixer, allocating all of his entry fee to be a prize for third place in the Computer Championship.

Letting people choose how to allocate their entry fees is an intriguing idea, but it seems there are still some bugs to work out of the current implementation.

Title: Re: 2011 computer championship participants?
Post by Adanac on Nov 29^th, 2010, 3:30pm

on 11/29/10 at 14:15:43, Fritzlein wrote:

That's an interesting scenario -- rather than pay $20 for 2 events now, he'd be paying $10 before the CC and then another $10 in April for the Postal Championship (although it's only saving him $10 because he didn't know where to contribute the first $10).

Refunds are another problem. What if someone signed up for 3 events for $30, adding $10 to each of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place prizes? Then, if that player later decides to withdraw from the other 2 events, he could ask for a refund of the 1st and 2nd place contribtions if he feels he's most likely to finish 3rd.

The easiest, but least flexible, fix would be:

1. You cannot ask for a refund once one of your events has already begun.

2. You cannot join new events after one of your events has already begun. Unless you've over-donated and have enough money remaining to join an additional event.

But I'm OK with just leaving it as an honour system with players free to join/leave prior to any of the 4 events. The amount of money that can be manipulated out of the system is very minimal and cheating would only work for players in the top 3.

Title: Re: 2011 computer championship participants?
Post by omar on Dec 16^th, 2010, 10:20am

on 11/29/10 at 14:15:43, Fritzlein wrote:

Letting people choose how to allocate their entry fees is an intriguing idea, but it seems there are still some bugs to work out of the current implementation.

Yes definitely. Another problem is that the prize for 3rd place could end up being more than 1st if enough people think they are likely to place 3rd instead of 1st and allocate all their contribution to 3rd place.

Thanks for the suggestions Greg, I'll keep that in mind for next year.

Title: Re: 2011 computer championship participants?
Post by Adanac on Dec 16^th, 2010, 10:58am

on 12/16/10 at 10:20:58, omar wrote:

I do like this new system and I think that all of the issues that have been discussed are relatively easy to fix. For example, if the 3rd place prize is more than the 2nd place prize then we could add a rule that the excess money is distributed to either 1st & 2nd or to the general prize fund for that event. Presumably there would be unanimous agreement* that we should re-distribute the funds in some manner, it's just the methodology that would be up for debate.

* or at least I think there would be.

Title: Re: 2011 computer championship participants?
Post by rbarreira on Dec 26^th, 2010, 3:47pm

Three bots registered so far, I guess / hope there will be a lot of last-week registrations!

Title: Re: 2011 computer championship participants?
Post by omar on Jan 1^st, 2011, 7:48pm

Many of the bot developers had not made changes to the bots over the past year or were in the process of making changes and didn't want to enter. I suggested entering previous years bot. So we have 8 bots now.