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(Message started by: omar on Jan 24^th, 2010, 3:41pm)

Title: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Jan 24^th, 2010, 3:41pm

Since it's taking me longer then expected to make the videos I've posted the audio files for the games here:

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/videos/2010wc/

It's a bit hard to follow without seeing the game position.

I've added a real-time auto playback feature to the development JavaScript client which makes it a bit easier.

In the Tuks vs Adanac game I lost some audio in the middle when the battery of my digital recorder died.

Hope to eventually make videos from these. If you're good with movie making tools and would like to help, please let me know.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Eltripas on Jan 24^th, 2010, 4:58pm

I've recorded and upload the last 3 games:

Fritzlein vs chessandgo
by Adanac and Omar (http://www.4shared.com/file/206321132/19caa3df/Fritzlein_vs_chessandgo.html)
Hippo vs The_Jeh by Ron Weasley, Omar and Nevermind (http://www.4shared.com/file/206457009/2eb9f0d7/Hippo_vs_The_Jeh.html)
Tuks vs Adanac by Fritzlein, chessandgo and Omar (incomplete missing the opening) (http://www.4shared.com/file/206151739/757d7bfe/Tuks_vs_Adanac__incomplete_.html)

Of course Omar is free to put these on the same place he put the others.

I recorded all using the teamspeak tool , after that I encoded it to make mp3 with "Super" a video and audio converter ( you can download it here (http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html) it is free) except the hippo vs The Jeh one in that I used iTunes (yes the apple software for the ipod).

To use super is really easy you just select the file end then select the type of file for the output and the encoders you want to use, is a very useful program is converts to a lot of different types of files).

I used iTunes in the last one because there you can use VBR (VBR allows a higher bitrate (and therefore more storage space) to be allocated to the more complex segments of media files while less space is allocated to less complex segments. The average of these rates can be calculated to produce an average bitrate for the file) that means I can get a lighter file with the same quality of an other mp3 without VBR.

To encode in iTunes you need to go to preferences and then yo the import configuration then you select the output file and the quality, then in the play list you right click in the file you want to create an mp3 version (or whatever you selected) and right click on the a "create an mp3 file" option must be available).

I post the way I do this because the next week I return to college and while in the first week is very likely to got some free time after that I'm going to return to a project in the college that will make me stay there a loooot of time, (even some weekends).

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Janzert on Jan 24^th, 2010, 7:27pm

I was taking a shot at recording a video using my audio from Fritzlein vs Chessandgo and the automatic playback feature of the client, but so far after just a few moves the game is lagging behind the audio by a couple of minutes. Eltripas' audio also seems to time out the same as mine. Not sure what is going on though since the game does seem to be keeping up with the times recorded for the moves by the server. Anyone know if teamspeak cuts out periods of silence or something when recording?

Janzert

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Jan 24^th, 2010, 7:32pm

I'm not sure if TimeSpeak cuts out the silent parts. You might want to try using the audio file I made with the digital recorder; I know that was running continuously.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Arimabuff on Jan 25^th, 2010, 6:17am

Thanks for the audio files Omar. They are very helpful if one reviews the games at the same time. I hope you'll leave them on even after you get the video files to work properly.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Janzert on Jan 25^th, 2010, 8:28pm

Videos and postgame interviews from a couple round 3 games are now temporarily up on my site:

Fritzlein vs Chessandgo (http://arimaa.janzert.com/games/g132804/)
99of9 vs Omar (http://arimaa.janzert.com/games/g132900/)

Omar, the video files can be downloaded here (http://arimaa.janzert.com/games/g132804.zip) and here (http://arimaa.janzert.com/games/g132900.zip).

Janzert

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Adanac on Jan 26^th, 2010, 7:24am

on 01/25/10 at 20:28:03, Janzert wrote:

Thanks for synchonizing the audio & visual, this is really terrific. One bit of advice to listeners of the Fritzlein - Chessandgo game is that when Omar speaks you have to turn up the volume and then turn it back down when I speak. At first, I thought there were long gaps of silence until I turned the volume louder! Hopefully we can resolve that issue next time.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by chessandgo on Jan 26^th, 2010, 8:24am

on 01/26/10 at 07:24:27, Adanac wrote:

One bit of advice to listeners of the Fritzlein - Chessandgo game is that when Omar speaks you have to turn up the volume and then turn it back down when I speak. At first, I thought there were long gaps of silence until I turned the volume louder! Hopefully we can resolve that issue next time.

Yeah . It's tough for the commentators to compare how they sound or to know whether there's some noise as they don't hear there own voice), so I guess the listeners should tell asap when they notice inequal volumes or noise or w/e.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Fritzlein on Jan 26^th, 2010, 11:02am

Thanks a ton for doing this, Janzert. It is a huge help to be able to hear myself. I didn't realize quite how many times I would confuse the names of players, or the two colors, or the names of the pieces, or the coordinates of the squares, etc. I have a lot to learn as a commentator. I think next time I will need to think less about what is happening in the game, and think more about what I am saying. It would be a good tradeoff for the analysis to be less deep if the communication would be more clear.

Also, there seemed to still be a slight technical issue with the sound, as I lost quite a few syllables or even whole words. At first I thought it might be myself messing up the "push to talk" keys, but it happened in the middle of sentences as well. Perhaps it was due instead to the meager CPU on my commentating computer sometimes failing to keep up with real-time voice encoding.

Still, we are getting closer and closer to a very strong product. I think the live commentary plus the audio/video replay could draw in some marginal fans of Arimaa to be active again, and could even pull in some folks who have only heard of Arimaa to give playing it a try. Omar's dream of Arimaa being a spectator sport is coming closer to reality.

And while I'm on the topic, I can't but mention how helpful it is to me as a commentator to have the moves arriving at a relatively steady pace, not too fast and not too slow. The preliminary time control is just about perfect; the slower 90s/move pace of the finals is going to be too slow. When we set the time control we weren't thinking specifically of live commentary, but I don't think we could have nailed it any better if it had been our sole intent.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Jan 26^th, 2010, 2:02pm

on 01/25/10 at 06:17:58, Arimabuff wrote:

Thanks for the audio files Omar. They are very helpful if one reviews the games at the same time. I hope you'll leave them on even after you get the video files to work properly.

No problem; I'll keep them there. Glad to hear you like them. I am really enjoying these games with commentary also. Watching games with it now will feel like watching Monday night football with the volume muted :-)

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Jan 26^th, 2010, 2:15pm

on 01/25/10 at 20:28:03, Janzert wrote:

Thanks so much for making these Janzert. I've hosted them on the arimaa server now.
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/videos/2010wc/

The quality is really incredible. The file size is about 500MB, but that's not too bad considering the quality of video and how long it is. What did you use to make this?

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Janzert on Jan 26^th, 2010, 2:49pm

I used BB Flashback Express (http://www.bbsoftware.co.uk/bbflashbackexpress/home.aspx?app=FBExpress2&did=3774261&rid=401&cc=true). I did a search for screencasting software and this seemed to be the nicest thing available for free.

It does mean that you can't do much else with the computer while recording and at least when I recorded the game live Monday it seemed to prevent me from talking in teamspeak. So ideally it would be nice if someone came up with a second computer that wouldn't be used for anything else during the recording. Also when recording remember to turn off the screensaver.

Janzert

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Jan 26^th, 2010, 3:00pm

I just want to give a big thanks to Karl, Jean, Greg, and Ned for helping out with the commentary. There is no way I could have done this myself; you've seen how bad I am at commentating :-). Your commentary has really brought the games to life. For anyone who has not experienced this yet, I highly recommend trying it.

Also I hope more people will come forth and try doing commentary. I know it would be hard to match the top guns, but lively commentary even with less depth is fun to listen to. I was pleasantly surprised to see Ned give commentary and it encouraged me to join in.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by 99of9 on Jan 26^th, 2010, 3:51pm

I've just watched Janzert's merge of Fritz's commentary on my game against omar. Great stuff. Amazing that Fritz can keep talking for an entire game by himself (with only a few slips of the tongue, and great analysis)! It looks like the audio was a little behind the video, because Fritz seemed to take a while to notice each move, but other than that, it was flawless. Well done both of you.

Sorry I can't help the commentary yet, I haven't even got myself onto TeamSpeak yet, but I'll work on that.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Fritzlein on Jan 26^th, 2010, 4:14pm

on 01/26/10 at 15:51:59, 99of9 wrote:

You are too kind. :)

Quote:

Sorry I can't help the commentary yet, I haven't even got myself onto TeamSpeak yet, but I'll work on that.

What are you doing Monday night? Chessandgo vs. Adanac needs a commentator, and most of North American will be fast asleep, and most of Europe will be at work.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Eltripas on Jan 26^th, 2010, 5:54pm

on 01/24/10 at 19:32:07, omar wrote:

I'm not sure if TimeSpeak cuts out the silent parts. You might want to try using the audio file I made with the digital recorder; I know that was running continuously.

Sorry for the late answer here, already answered Janzert in the forum, teamspeak skips the silent parts, but only the silent parts where no microphone is active, so if you leave a microphone is open all the time but in silence teamspeak shouldn't skip those parts, just a suggestion but I see that other methods (like the one Janzert used) may be more effective, when I did my recording I didn't made them to be put on videos at least not in videos in sync with the real game time sorry for not telling this before.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Janzert on Jan 26^th, 2010, 5:57pm

on 01/26/10 at 15:51:59, 99of9 wrote:

It looks like the audio was a little behind the video, because Fritz seemed to take a while to notice each move, but other than that, it was flawless.

The video and audio for that game were actually recorded together "live". As you say though I also noticed it during the game that judging by Fritzlein's commentary his client seemed to lag a few seconds behind mine. At first I thought maybe it was because of the extra lag between the teamspeak server and our clients. But when I checked he only had about 20ms and I had around 50ms lag on teamspeak so that shouldn't have added any significant delay. I'm not sure what client Fritzlein was using but I did happen to have the development javascript client up, not sure if that displays moves quicker or not. I guess that's all just to say I did notice it during the game as well but couldn't figure out where the delay might be coming from.

All in all though since we didn't decide to record until literally a minute or two before the game started, I was pretty pleased with how well it worked out. Fritzlein did a great job keeping up the commentary through the whole game without anyone to join in.

Janzert

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Nombril on Jan 26^th, 2010, 7:07pm

I noticed while listening (live) to some of the games that there was some delay between when I saw the steps on my screen compared to when I heard the steps on the commentators audio.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by chessandgo on Jan 27^th, 2010, 6:16am

Posted by: Fritzlein "You are too kind."

Karl, you could be a commentor for NBA games on ABC as far as I am concerned, I'm another huge fan of how you handle live commentaries :)

Posted by: Janzert "Videos and postgame interviews from a couple round 3 games are now temporarily up on my site"

I haven't had the time to watch Janzert's videos, I hope I'll do it tonight, big thanks for doing this anyway!

Posted by: Fritzlein "It is a huge help to be able to hear myself"

Yeah, most definitely! Although I am pretty ashame when I hear my english accent. I'll try to concentrate on this if I find myself in the commentator seat again.

"I also noticed it during the game that judging by Fritzlein's commentary his client seemed to lag a few seconds behind mine"

I had the same impression when commenting with him the Tuks-Adanac game, he always seemed to aaah a couple seconds later than I'd expected about the current move.

"Chessandgo vs. Adanac needs a commentator, and most of North American will be fast asleep, and most of Europe will be at work. "

Sounds like I'm the only lazy european :) Seriously, I'm not sure whether you got my email Greg, I hoped we would find an easier time even though I'm away for the week-end, which sure is a problem for finding a good time :(

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Fritzlein on Jan 27^th, 2010, 6:57am

on 01/26/10 at 17:57:57, Janzert wrote:

OK, I was wondering about the lag myself, which seemed to be about 2-3 seconds at the start of the game and grow to 8-14 seconds by the end of the game. I am now convinced that it was entirely due to my Arimaa client, and not due to Teamspeak or Internet lag or synchronization issues. The laptop on which I am commentating is ancient. Also I recall previous incidents where I and others noticed longer and longer times to display moves as the game progressed, something to do with the long movelist, which we resolved by switching versions of the client.

Unfortunately I don't recall what I switched from and what I switched to in order to resolve the display slowness problem. I am currently set to Flash V2 HTTP client. For my next commentary I will switch to Javascript. My only issue with the Javascript client in the past has been as a player when it doesn't send my move and/or doesn't register that my move has been sent. Perhaps when I am watching only and not playing, I will have no issues with the Javascript client, and it will display the moves with less lag.

Indeed, perhaps I should even switch to the Javascript experimental client, so as to be less likely to confuse the coordinates of the traps. If Janzert had no issues with it for capturing live video, why should I fear? I watched a bit of a live game just now, and it seemed I had only one or two seconds lag with it even by move forty.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Fritzlein on Jan 27^th, 2010, 7:04am

on 01/27/10 at 06:16:41, chessandgo wrote:

Karl, you could be a commentor for NBA games on ABC as far as I am concerned, I'm another huge fan of how you handle live commentaries :)

I truly appreciate the encouragement. It makes me eager to keep trying to improve.

Quote:

Although I am pretty ashame when I hear my english accent.

No worries. Your vocabulary and grammar are first-rate, and I never have trouble understanding you. The only effect of an accent like yours is to make the women swoon! :)

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Adanac on Jan 27^th, 2010, 8:12am

on 01/27/10 at 06:16:41, chessandgo wrote:

Seriously, I'm not sure whether you got my email Greg, I hoped we would find an easier time even though I'm away for the week-end, which sure is a problem for finding a good time :(

Jean, no I didn’t see your e-mail but I suspected you might be gone all weekend when our game got such a strange time slot. It’s no problem though, I’m going to try sleep early every night for the next 5 nights so that I get into the habit of waking up at 5:00. On the bright side, that will allow me to commentate on Tuks vs. 99of9 on Sunday, which is also 5:00 for me. I’m going to need to learn how to record the audio (Janzert recommended Audacity), unless someone wants to volunteer as a co-commentator & audio recorder.

on 01/26/10 at 11:02:33, Fritzlein wrote:

Your voice is very smooth and you always have good insights to share. Seriously, I would have thought you had a decade of radio experience after listening to the games :) I’m the one who needs the practice! The second game went more smoothly, but there’s still a long list for improvement:

• Level sound volume for all commentators.

• Not repeating so many sentences due to a lost train of thought or because I might have said the wrong piece or square the first time.

• Lift my voice rather than allow it to trail off at the end of sentences.

• When a player makes a move mid-sentence I shouldn’t say “oh!” every time.

• Maybe pause 2 or 3 seconds for quiet analysis after each move rather than jumping straight into tactical analysis. I’d rather have the short silence followed by accurate analysis than fast & inaccurate.

• I’ve found that listening to just the audio file while replaying the game manually is difficult because it’s not always obvious which move is current being discussed. Audio/video mixing mostly solves the problem but I still like the idea of announcing each move with: move # played, which pieces moved to where (excluding setup move), amount of time used, amount of reserve remaining. I’m not sure if this is useful after the video is added to the file, but it can’t hurt.

• Trust my instincts more. In the Naveed-Chris game at one point I said something like “Will that give gold a goal in that scenario? One, two, unfreeze, three, four, um wait, five steps? No I guess not”. My first instinct was a very sure “no goal”, I should have just gone with that. I’m going to make mistakes, no doubt, but I’d rather have a smooth broadcast than lots of second-guessing.

• When a new thought pops into my head mid-sentence, I still have to finish the current sentence smoothly – no awkward pauses! In the Fritzlein-Chessandgo game at one point I suggested placing silver pieces on e5, e6 and f7 to prevent the gold elephant from pulling the d6 horse (to free the framed horse). That’s close to what Jean eventually played but unfortunately, in mid-sentence I noticed the gold dog could retreat to d3, allowing the framed c6 gold horse to be (temporarily) freed on Karl’s next move. That threw me off for a moment before I realized that Jean could undo with 4 steps and hold the frame thanks to the three-move-repetition rule. So I anticipated three moves that were actually played yet completely fumbled the communication because I was trying to unravel new ideas all at once. If I had just completed my first thought, then verbalized my 2nd & 3rd thoughts it would have sounded more coherent.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by RonWeasley on Jan 27^th, 2010, 9:51am

I thought all the commentators were easy to understand and had useful things to say. I say don't worry too much about polished delivery. I found that beer helped me reduce the occurrence of dead air moments.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Fritzlein on Jan 27^th, 2010, 2:23pm

on 01/27/10 at 09:51:34, RonWeasley wrote:

I found that beer helped me reduce the occurrence of dead air moments.

Butterbeer, surely. This is a family show...

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Eltripas on Jan 30^th, 2010, 6:45pm

Just posting the audio I recorded for the PMertens vs naveed:

http://www.4shared.com/file/211680745/67ae0c6e/PMertens_vs_naveed.html

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Jan 31^st, 2010, 6:17am

Posted the audio from the last two game with live commentary.

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/videos/2010wc/

If noone is planning to do commentary on the chessandgo vs Adanac game I'll take a crack at it, but it would be nice if someone could join me.

Using the development JavaScript client for watching games might be better since it has the coordinates on the trap squares. If you ever need to reload the client just right click off the board and select 'Reload'.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Fritzlein on Jan 31^st, 2010, 8:23am

Thanks for posting the commentary, Omar. I was sad to miss the 99of9 vs Tuks game, but listening to it after the fact was the next best thing.

Is there any way to do something about the relative microphone volume? I had to choose between barely hearing you at all, or having my eardrums blown out by Adanac.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Adanac on Jan 31^st, 2010, 10:03am

on 01/31/10 at 08:23:20, Fritzlein wrote:

I'll try to adjust my volume before the game starts next time. I tried to find the microphone volume control during the game, but it was too much pressure mid-game and so I just went back to the commentary.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Fritzlein on Jan 31^st, 2010, 10:28am

on 01/26/10 at 14:49:58, Janzert wrote:

Thanks for figuring out how to do this Janzert. Did you have to re-encode it after the fact to compress it, or was it compressing as you went along? If the latter, it isn't surprising that you couldn't do anything else with your computer while recording, since encoding is so CPU-intensive. Indeed, I'm sure my ancient laptop couldn't do it at all, and perhaps not my desktop either.

It's a real bummer not to be able to talk in TeamSpeak while recording in BB Flashback, because if one person could do it all we would surely have a lot more of our audio commentary having accompanying video by now. Does it seem to be memory or CPU that is the bottleneck? Perhaps we won't get around it any way except having someone who isn't talking dedicate a computer to the recording.

Anyway, thanks for moving us forward on the technical discovery process.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Janzert on Jan 31^st, 2010, 2:54pm

The video still had to be encoded to the flash format after recording. It still seems to require a fair bit of resources but not as terrible as I might have thought. The main reason I was saying that not much else can be done is just that any sounds the computer makes or windows that pop over the game area will be recorded.

I need to try recording and talking on teamspeak again. The last time we didn't decide to record until around 1 or 2 minutes before the game. I expected to try and help with the commentary but for some reason after starting the recording my mic wasn't transmitting on teamspeak. I'm not really sure what caused it as at that point the game had started and I didn't have time to try and diagnose it. So it may still be possible to both comment and record.

Janzert

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Feb 1^st, 2010, 7:55am

on 01/31/10 at 06:17:15, omar wrote:

If noone is planning to do commentary on the chessandgo vs Adanac game I'll take a crack at it, but it would be nice if someone could join me.

Sorry guys, I missed covering this game. I was sleeping like a rock at 4am and my cell phone alarm was enough to move me. By the time I got up it was 6:30. This game turned out to be an incredible upset with a spectacular ending and would have been fun to cover.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Feb 1^st, 2010, 8:03am

on 01/31/10 at 08:23:20, Fritzlein wrote:

Greg did warn me about my volume being low and I turned up my mic volume as high as it would go; it made it better but still was hard to hear. After the game I went through the audio file and used Audacity to amplify the sections where I was speaking. I think that made it much better. There were some sections where Greg and I were over lapping a bit, so I didn't amplify those.

We still need to figure out what setting work best.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Fritzlein on Feb 1^st, 2010, 4:41pm

If the tentative game times for round 5 hold, then I could commentate both PMertens vs Tuks on Thursday and The_Jeh vs Chessandgo on Sunday. Not to reserve all the plum assignments for myself; if anyone else wants to have those slots, just say the word.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Eltripas on Feb 1^st, 2010, 5:27pm

Just posting the commentary on woh vs hippo game:

http://www.4shared.com/file/213334705/3c22efb6/woh_vs_Hippo.html

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Adanac on Feb 2^nd, 2010, 7:10am

on 02/01/10 at 16:41:04, Fritzlein wrote:

I predict that nobody will have the audacity to bump Karl from the plum games ;D

The only game I can potentially do is 99of9-Nevermind, moreso if I can recruit a co-commentator (any experience level). Fritzlein makes it look easy to talk for 90 minutes straight, but it isn't!

Anyone can be a good co-commentator, even with a 1500 rating and no desire to do too much talking. Just simple things like chipping in: "Hey, why do you keep talking about wild tactics in the southeast when there's a better opportunity around c6?", for example, are a great help for getting the other tunnel-vision commentator to look around the board more. (For some reason I search around all 4 quadrants frequently as a player, but get overfocused on one quadrant as a commentator). Or "I wonder if it's better to frame or hostage in this situation?" can steer the conversation towards questions that many spectators might also be thinking about. Plus, being solo means there's no opportunity to take a break, if say, you need a drink of water during a 74 move marathon and you forgot to keep a full glass nearby. Oops :'(

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by RonWeasley on Feb 3^rd, 2010, 6:03am

I could be available for Friday's Adanac vs Fritzlein. For other games I may be present but not reliably available. Perhaps I could be a designated sidekick. I will most likely miss most of 99of9 vs Nevermind so I can't help Adanac there.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Fritzlein on Feb 3^rd, 2010, 6:40am

I can still do PMertens vs. Tuks, even though it moved three hours earlier. I'm guessing the North American live audience will be small in the middle of a work day, but that's why we record them. :-)

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Adanac on Feb 3^rd, 2010, 7:13am

on 02/03/10 at 06:03:31, RonWeasley wrote:

The schedules were revised and I can no longer commentate on any of the games this week. But I'll certainly listen to all the recordings sometime next week.

By the way Ron, did you record either of your Sunday broadcasts? Other than those two I think I have all of the links below. If anyone noticing a missing game, please let me know, or just add the link to the Wiki page:

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/2010_Open_Classic_Round_2

ChrisB - Nevermind
PMertens - Chessandgo

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/2010_Open_Classic_Round_3

Naveed - ChrisB
Tuks - Adanac
Fritzlein - Chessandgo
Hippo - TheJeh
99of9 - Omar
(wow, 5 in the same round!)

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/2010_Open_Classic_Round_4

PMertens - Naveed
Tuks - 99of9
Woh - Hippo

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/2010_Open_Classic_Round_5

PMertens - Tuks
TheJeh - Chessandgo
Adanac - Fritzlein (I haven't added a note yet, until it's official)

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by chessandgo on Feb 3^rd, 2010, 8:26am

I think I should be there for 99of9-Nevermind (and also PM-Tuks just in case), but I'd most definitely need a co-commentator.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Fritzlein on Feb 3^rd, 2010, 8:31am

on 02/03/10 at 08:26:20, chessandgo wrote:

I think I should be there for 99of9-Nevermind (and also PM-Tuks just in case), but I'd most definitely need a co-commentator.

We can share PMertens vs. Tuks if you like. Maybe Omar can help you out for 99of9 vs. Nevermind?

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by RonWeasley on Feb 3^rd, 2010, 8:57am

on 02/03/10 at 07:13:42, Adanac wrote:

By the way Ron, did you record either of your Sunday broadcasts?

Sorry but no. I'm apparently too lazy/clueless to learn the recording spell. Next time I'll ask for help in this regard.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Feb 3^rd, 2010, 12:51pm

on 02/03/10 at 08:31:55, Fritzlein wrote:

We can share PMertens vs. Tuks if you like. Maybe Omar can help you out for 99of9 vs. Nevermind?

The time for this game was changed so please check it again. The new time falls at 5am my time, so it might be hard for me to catch, but I'll try.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Feb 3^rd, 2010, 12:56pm

on 02/03/10 at 06:03:31, RonWeasley wrote:

I could be available for Friday's Adanac vs Fritzlein.

I could try to help you out on this game.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by chessandgo on Feb 3^rd, 2010, 1:45pm

ah, I won't be able to comment 99-Nvm with the new schedule.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Fritzlein on Feb 4^th, 2010, 1:42pm

So it is RonWeasley and Omar commentating on my game with Adanac? Please make sure to capture it, as I am very eager to listen to it and won't be able to tune in live. (I'll be asleep at that hour ;))

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Fritzlein on Feb 4^th, 2010, 4:26pm

on 02/02/10 at 07:10:48, Adanac wrote:

The only game I can potentially do is 99of9-Nevermind, moreso if I can recruit a co-commentator (any experience level).

on 02/03/10 at 08:26:20, chessandgo wrote:

I think I should be there for 99of9-Nevermind (and also PM-Tuks just in case), but I'd most definitely need a co-commentator.

Woohoo! I look forward to some rockin' analysis!

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Adanac on Feb 4^th, 2010, 4:48pm

on 02/04/10 at 16:26:54, Fritzlein wrote:

Woohoo! I look forward to some rockin' analysis!

Not from me though. My offer for analysis was Saturday 6:00 my local time. I believe the proposed re-re-scheduled time will occur during my work hours.

I don't think there was ever a possibility of chessandgo & I co-commentating because he's the opposite: Saturday is bad while the re-re-scheduled Friday date is OK.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Feb 4^th, 2010, 5:10pm

on 02/03/10 at 13:45:01, chessandgo wrote:

ah, I won't be able to comment 99-Nvm with the new schedule.

The time for this game has been changed back to 14 hours earlier. Hope you will be able to cover it.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by chessandgo on Feb 5^th, 2010, 9:04am

yeah, Greg had it, I should be able to comment with the new new schedule. And to record the video, this time it shall work :)

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by chessandgo on Feb 5^th, 2010, 10:39am

and I'm absolutely looking for a co-commentator.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Fritzlein on Feb 5^th, 2010, 11:03am

I was able to listen to my commentary on PMertens vs. Tuks. Thanks Jean for recording it and Omar for posting it!

My analysis was definitely of a lower quality, but that's fine with me, because I am trying to focus on talking rather than on thinking. I expect the audience would rather have a smooth, lively presentation of generalities about the position (e.g. Gold needs his elephant on the other side) than have accurate tactical calculations punctuated by silence while I try to figure out variations.

I am pleased that I achieved my goal of cutting way back on "uh" and "um" this time around. Unfortunately, I confused "east" and "west" at least fifteen times, and interchanged gold for silver, frame for smother, piece names, and square coordinates about half a dozen times each. My focus for my next commentary (The_Jeh vs. chessandgo on Sunday) will be to say what I actually mean. Making my words correspond to my thoughts shouldn't be that hard, should it? I will try to listen to myself somewhat as I am talking, if that makes sense.

This commentary is turning out to be very enjoyable for me. Perhaps I will give up gaming in order to learn how to be a radio broadcaster instead. :)

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Feb 5^th, 2010, 8:11pm

I just uploaded the video from the Adanac vs Fritzlein game. Also there is a video of the last part of 99of9 vs Nevermind game.

The sync problem is much reduced in the Adanac vs Fritzlein video. It is amazing that the hour and a half of audio and video used only about 40 MB. I used Xvid for the video format. It plays back in Windows Media fine, but VLC plays back only the video and no audio.

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/videos/2010wc/

Jean, the files you uploaded were very small and seemed like just the beginning part.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by chessandgo on Feb 6^th, 2010, 8:48am

it was a 10-hour upload, so I did it today (I probably canceled it wrong yesterday, didn't realize I'd leave a partial file). Uploaded the .avi file, I'm going to compress the sound file and upload it now.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Fritzlein on Feb 7^th, 2010, 8:31am

on 02/01/10 at 16:41:04, Fritzlein wrote:

If the tentative game times for round 5 hold, then I could commentate both PMertens vs Tuks on Thursday and The_Jeh vs Chessandgo on Sunday.

Gentlemen, I must apologize. Yesterday (Saturday) I screamed myself hoarse rooting for my Ultimate Frisbee team through three cold, damp games. I wrecked my voice for commentary today, and thus will not be able to cover The_Jeh vs. chessandgo. :( Perhaps by tomorrow I will have recovered enough to commentate Simon vs. woh instead.

Sorry about that.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Fritzlein on Feb 10^th, 2010, 11:32am

Hey, it looks like I'll have a second shot to commentate on chessandgo vs. The_Jeh! No frisbee this week, so I'm good to go. Adanac said in chat that he can probably help.

Also I would love to commentate Adanac vs. Simon, and am seeking a partner in blather. I can (just barely) keep the patter going all game at 60 seconds per move, but I'm pretty sure I can't do it at 90 seconds per move. Ron, would you like to be the play-by-play to my color commentary?

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by RonWeasley on Feb 11^th, 2010, 8:21am

Thanks for the offer for Adanac vs Simon. But I can't stay up that late. I could help at the start of the game, but that might be very lame when I leave. Other games this round are also at times where I have other commitments overlapping.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Fritzlein on Feb 16^th, 2010, 7:41pm

Rats, no commentary from me for round 2 of the finals. I'll be asleep for 99of9 vs Adanac, at frisbee for Simon vs. Tuks, and playing during The_Jeh vs. woh. Ah, well, maybe next week.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Adanac on Feb 16^th, 2010, 8:23pm

on 02/16/10 at 19:41:13, Fritzlein wrote:

Rats, no commentary from me for round 2 of the finals. I'll be asleep for 99of9 vs Adanac, at frisbee for Simon vs. Tuks, and playing during The_Jeh vs. woh. Ah, well, maybe next week.

I can volunteer for one of the Sunday games but my Saturday is already booked.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Feb 17^th, 2010, 9:04am

I hope some more people will step up to help with the commentary. Please don't worry about making mistakes or not being able to analyse the game correctly, it happens to all of us. I'm sure there are a lot of people in the community who could be good commentators, but haven't even tried it yet. This is a good change to give it a shot.

On Sunday I will need help with video recording. I will definitely be recording the chessandgo vs Fritzlein game, but since it will most likely overlap with The_Jeh vs woh game I won't be able to cover the later game. If someone can volunteer to do a video recording of that game it would really help out. I have noted down the settings I use with Camtasia.
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/videos/camtasiaSmall.txt
I found these settings after much experimentation to produce very small size files, very good sound and video quality (for the small size), and have very little lag between video and audio even after hours of recording. Hope someone can help with recording the last game.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by RonWeasley on Feb 17^th, 2010, 9:21am

I could help with the Saturday game and one of the Sunday games. It's a bit risky with me in that I sometimes need to go afk during a game, but it's been fairly reliable so far.

Question: We have overlapping games on Sunday. Are we set up to have overlapping commentary?

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Eltripas on Feb 17^th, 2010, 7:13pm

on 02/17/10 at 09:04:06, omar wrote:

I think I will be able to help with that

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Feb 18^th, 2010, 6:39pm

on 02/17/10 at 19:13:32, Eltripas wrote:

I think I will be able to help with that

Thanks, that would be great if you could.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Feb 18^th, 2010, 6:44pm

on 02/17/10 at 09:21:41, RonWeasley wrote:

Question: We have overlapping games on Sunday. Are we set up to have overlapping commentary?

We might not. I still hope someone decides to jump in at the last minute.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by 99of9 on Feb 18^th, 2010, 9:23pm

I think the question meant whether we could have two channels of audio?

Sorry I can't commentate this week, I will be asleep during all the other games.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Nombril on Feb 18^th, 2010, 9:26pm

Is this the last minute? ;) I'd be willing to try talking about one game this weekend, though I would definitely prefer to play the role of sidekick! There is the potential for background noise here...

Either of the Sunday games would work best for me, though Sat is an option. I'm not sure about doing the recording, it seems someone else can do that?

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Eltripas on Feb 19^th, 2010, 6:40am

on 02/18/10 at 21:23:55, 99of9 wrote:

I think the question meant whether we could have two channels of audio?

Sorry I can't commentate this week, I will be asleep during all the other games.

Yes, we can have two channels of audio, Omar just needs to create them on the team speak channel.

Also I want to know if Omar wants me to record audio and video or just video.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Feb 20^th, 2010, 10:58am

on 02/18/10 at 21:26:03, Nombril wrote:

Hey that would be great. I'll be there trying my best to make sense of the games in real-time :-) if you can join in it would help out. I think we might need help both days.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Feb 20^th, 2010, 1:35pm

on 02/19/10 at 06:40:50, Eltripas wrote:

Yes, we can have two channels of audio, Omar just needs to create them on the team speak channel.

Also I want to know if Omar wants me to record audio and video or just video.

If you can record both the audio and video that would be great. I've found that Camtasia works very good for recording both using the settings given in the link I posted earlier. Also turning off the sound in the client helps so that even if the audio video sync gets off it is not as noticeable. I use the JavaScript Development client when recording the games since it has labels on the trap squares and makes it easier to identify the squares, but feel free to use which ever client works best for you.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Eltripas on Feb 20^th, 2010, 6:51pm

Thanks for the advice

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Adanac on Feb 21^st, 2010, 2:02pm

Was the game Simon - Tuks recorded? I don't see it on Omar's video index and I have nothing for the Wiki yet.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Fritzlein on Feb 22^nd, 2010, 7:09pm

If the preliminary game times for Round 3 of the finals hold up, I can commentate for either Sunday game. I probably shouldn't do both back-to-back, though, if I want to have a voice on Monday. I'm happy with either if other folks have a preference for which they want to do.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Nombril on Feb 22^nd, 2010, 7:57pm

If anyone wants to listen to me again, I could talk during the later Sunday game. If there is anyone else considering being a commentator for the first time, here are my first impressions about the experience:
1. It was fun.
2. It was easy, especially since I thought only one person was listening. (There was a fairly well attended game overlapping the one I was talking about :) and I didn't notice when a bunch of people switched over after the other game finished. :o )
3. It will hopefully improve my game - I think the toughest part was remembering to look at and discuss the strategy from both sides of the board.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Fritzlein on Feb 23^rd, 2010, 5:02pm

OK, I will lay claim to commentating the earlier Sunday game, Tuks vs. chessandgo, if that isn't too presumptuous. I find that I enjoy doing solo commentary, but if anyone would like to do team commentary with me, speak right up.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Feb 26^th, 2010, 3:14pm

on 02/22/10 at 19:57:30, Nombril wrote:

I thought you did a great job of commentating. It would be great if you could cover the second game on Sunday.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Fritzlein on Feb 28^th, 2010, 2:37pm

Thanks to Nombril and chessandgo for covering the second game today. Not only was my voice about to give out, it was far more relaxing to kick back and let other folks do the hard thinking. I already knew chessandgo was a great commentator, and I was pleasantly surprised to discover that Nombril is too. Thanks guys! The experience of watching a live game is vastly enhanced by the audio feed. I think we're really on to something here.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Nombril on Mar 1^st, 2010, 11:27am

I think Fritzlein is being a bit generous in his description of my commentary. Maybe after I've played more than a few months I'll be able to do better. But I am happy to be able to help out. Most of the people I've talked to have been very impressed with the Arimaa community, that we are broadcasting games and have complete event reports.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by 99of9 on Mar 1^st, 2010, 1:36pm

on 03/01/10 at 11:27:29, Nombril wrote:

I think Fritzlein is being a bit generous in his description of my commentary. Maybe after I've played more than a few months I'll be able to do better.

Well I couldn't tell the difference between you and Adanac, so that says something about both your voice and your analysis!

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Fritzlein on Mar 8^th, 2010, 4:48pm

I'm excited that the 3rd place game between Adanac and 99of9 is at 14:00 Saturday my local time, so I will be able to provide live commentary.

My game against chessandgo on Monday noon my local time (18:00 UTC) will surely be inconvenient for many potential viewers/commentators in the Americas, but perhaps some Europeans can step up?

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Adanac on Mar 8^th, 2010, 5:25pm

on 03/08/10 at 16:48:40, Fritzlein wrote:

My company owes me half a day for recent overtime. I was thinking of taking it next Monday anyway :) I'd be more than happy to co-commentate with 1 or 2 other players.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Nombril on Mar 9^th, 2010, 8:08am

I might be available for part of the Monday game, but not the whole time. Hopefully someone else will be able to join in to help out.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by megajester on Mar 13^th, 2010, 11:24am

I thought I might just chip in and say that if anyone's still having trouble syncing video and audio, you might want to try using Audacity instead of the record function in Teamspeak. Nice little piece of freeware. All you do is set the input channel to record your computer's output. Also the Noise Removal function is excellent for getting rid of any "hum" you might have...

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Eltripas on Mar 13^th, 2010, 11:34am

on 03/13/10 at 11:24:21, megajester wrote:

Omar (and I) now use camtasia to record the video and audio at the same time, is pretty good,if I had to use the teamspeak recording function yesterday it was just because it was too complicated for me to use camtasia while playing, but thanks for your suggestion.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Mar 14^th, 2010, 7:40pm

I've uploaded the video now from the Adanac vs 99of9 game for 3rd place.

For a while there I was worried because the audio did not get captured. Turned out I had my head phones plugged into the computer and the sound wasn't going to the speakers :-)

I decided to record the audio at the lower quality because it keeps sync with the video. So the sound quality isn't that great, but Karl does a wonderful job of speaking clearly so it's still very easy to hear what he's saying.

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/video/2010wc/

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by megajester on Mar 15^th, 2010, 2:33am

Fired with enthusiasm I wondered how I might record commentary on my system. I quickly discovered that with screencapture software running, Teamspeak then can't connect to my microphone. Because you can't have two programs recording from different recording devices (ie. system & mic) at the same time. None of the fixes I have found online involving Control Panel/Sound dialog box settings work because HP slapped a useless bit of tinfoil called Conexant SmartAudio in my laptop instead of a soundcard.

I had found that if I set Teamspeak to continuous transmission and then start recording, it spits out a duff file. After all the polava with the soundcard I discovered that if you start recording first, and then set it to continuous transmission, it works fine. Thus effectively solving the sync problem.

I don't know if Camtastic solves this problem anyway, I'm trying to get the same job done with freeware so I haven't looked.

I'm thinking I can use Camstudio for the video and use Windows Movie Maker to combine it with the audio from Teamspeak. So, problem solved...

...or am I missing a trick here?

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Adanac on Mar 15^th, 2010, 8:25am

on 03/08/10 at 17:25:52, Adanac wrote:

My company owes me half a day for recent overtime. I was thinking of taking it next Monday anyway :) I'd be more than happy to co-commentate with 1 or 2 other players.

Actually, they owe me a lot more than that now. But I won't be able to take any time off today and I won't be commentating. I will poke my head into the gameroom periodically though to see who's winning!

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Janzert on Mar 15^th, 2010, 5:28pm

I now have video and commentary from today's game with Chessandgo vs Fritzlein up at http://arimaa.janzert.com/games/g137854/.

Janzert

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Mar 17^th, 2010, 8:34am

Wow, that's is a super quality video. I am so glad you were able to capture this game. My recording didn't turn out so well. Would you like me to host it on arimaa.com so that it doesn't effect your monthly bandwidth limits.

At the beginning of the video I got confused with Fritzlein's lose in the preliminary and thought it was in the finals. Bad episodic memory. Next time don't agree with me so easily Eric :-)

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Janzert on Mar 17^th, 2010, 9:05am

The bandwidth isn't a problem, but if you don't mind taking it then I don't have to worry about keeping it in place permanently. It is just under 100MB so about 4x larger than your recording though.

I zipped the files used (video, player and html) and that can be downloaded from http://arimaa.janzert.com/games/g137854.zip. You probably want to modify the html slightly so it better matches the arimaa.com theme, otherwise it should be a simple matter of just unzipping it on the server.

Janzert

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by megajester on Mar 18^th, 2010, 4:43pm

After an awful lot of faffing around with ASIO4ALL, many long hours vainly trying to find a freeware clone of Virtual Audio Cable, and 4 lira wasted on a male-to-male cable and two output splitters which, of course, refuse to work backwards, it turns out that BB Flashback Express is what I needed all along. DAAAAAAH! :)

I do believe I have snached achievement from the jaws of failure, however, in that I think I've found a way to use BB Flashback Express and still participate in the commentary. (The last I heard that was still a sticking point with that program, unless I'm way behind the times.) Here's my solution:

- In Teamspeak, set capture to microphone (nothing unusual here)

- In Teamspeak, set output to speakers NOT WaveOut (or whatever it's called on your system)

- In BB Flashback, record JUST speakers NOT mic (because Teamspeak is already relaying your mic to speakers)

I ran a test where I recorded myself using Test Voice to speak into my mic, clicking on Play Test Sound, and playing a bit of music on Windows Media Player. I could hear myself while recording and all sounds were successfully captured.

I know you guys are using Camtasia, but seeing as that's not free forever I thought you might still be interested in a genuinely freeware option.

See you on Monday! I hope to be around to make a backup recording of the match and even participate in the commentary if you so desire...

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Nombril on Mar 19^th, 2010, 4:20am

The problem I (and it seems some others) have with TeamSpeak is that my voice echos if anyone else has their channel open. (I use headphones and then the microphone is built into the computer.) I haven't had a chance to research this yet, if anyone has suggestions I'd be happy to do some testing before Monday's game. I wonder if it has something to do with the recording set up?

I'm possibly available for commentating Monday's game, but it all depends on how the naps go. I'd be happy to help or just listen if others want a turn.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by megajester on Mar 19^th, 2010, 7:57am

on 03/19/10 at 04:20:12, Nombril wrote:

The problem I (and it seems some others) have with TeamSpeak is that my voice echos if anyone else has their channel open. (I use headphones and then the microphone is built into the computer.)

I'll bet it's because the other person with their channel open is using speakers. If so there's not much you can do about that, except making a rule that only people with headphones are allowed to commentate...

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Adanac on Mar 22^nd, 2010, 6:28am

I can co-commentate today, along with whoever else was scheduled for today's broadcast. I'll show up 15 minutes early to make sure my microphone & headset are working properly. Sometimes when I speak, syllables are missed in the recording and I'm not sure whether that's also occurring in the live audio. If so, I'll try to fix that too.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Mar 22^nd, 2010, 8:17am

on 03/17/10 at 09:05:13, Janzert wrote:

The bandwidth isn't a problem, but if you don't mind taking it then I don't have to worry about keeping it in place permanently. It is just under 100MB so about 4x larger than your recording though.

Thanks; I've downloaded the video.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Mar 22^nd, 2010, 8:37am

on 03/18/10 at 16:43:58, megajester wrote:

See you on Monday! I hope to be around to make a backup recording of the match and even participate in the commentary if you so desire...

Joel it would be great if you could also help out with the commentary on today's game. I heard your voice in the video you made for the World League and it sounded great.

Also, please save a recording of the game; it's always good to have a backup.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by Eltripas on Apr 6^th, 2010, 11:54am

Does any of the challenge games is going to feature live commentary?

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by megajester on Apr 7^th, 2010, 12:00am

I for one won't be available for any of the current scheduled game times. Sorry guys.

Title: Re: Commentary audio
Post by omar on Apr 7^th, 2010, 8:50am

I've been contemplating if we should try to have live commentary for the challenge match games. It would make the games much more interesting to watch if there was live commentary, but the pace of these games being 2 minutes per move means they can sometimes go on for about 3 to 4 hours. It would be tough for the commentators to keep going for that long. So instead of a few people providing commentary for these games, just informal voice chat might be better suited for these games.