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Title: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Nombril on Dec 31st, 2010, 12:58am I thought it might be worth starting a thread for WC audio and written coverage. I have some general questions, and then expect we could use this thread to post what games are likely to have live commentary. Audio Commentary: Radio vs. Teamspeak? I know a few players were able to listen to the 'radio' that are not able to use Teamspeak. So for any games that Omar is available to turn on the radio, I suggest we make that available. (Omar - were you able to update that page to show how many people were listening? Is there a way for someone to see if it is 'on'? Also, we'll need a link somewhere so people know where to find it.) Anyone willing to give commentary or post-game interviews will need to have Teamspeak. Commentators: Fritz and I are both planning on doing some commentary if the games are played at times when we are available. How many other people are interested in doing lead or supporting commentary? (I do understand Fritz will draw a larger crowd - but I hope I'm correct that there are also people interested in listening to other commentators.) Recordings: Are there any volunteers for doing recordings, especially matching commentary to the 'video' of game moves? I know there has been a discussion (and trial and error) about programs/settings/file size/etc... but this isn't my forte. An expert in this area could post a summary here so we have it for reference... Security: If the radio is used, I don't think we have any control over who is listening. With the delay for event games, specific moves won't help, but long term strategy discussion would. Are we comfortable with the honor system, or is this a reason to limit the commentary to Teamspeak, with people in Teamspeak being required to validate in the chat room that they have logged into Teamspeak? Schedule: Last year we just posted on the commentary thread what games we would be giving commentary for. Do we need anything more organized than that, or should we just keep going with the loose planning? Is there anyway to put a mark in the gameroom by the Scheduled Games we expect to have commentary for? Event Reporting I see the 'Event Reporter' is still listed as TBD. I certainly enjoyed reading the reports last year - Adanac, have you been volunteered to head this up again? If whoever does take up this role wants help - I could write up a report on roughly 1 game per week. I'll need some input on how to make the diagrams. Is anyone else interested in leading or helping with the written reporting? Chat Room Security: Are there any concerns about our normal chatter about suggested moves, strategy, etc? I assume we should request the players to be logged out. After this are we comfortable that the delay and the players' honor will keep everything above board? I just thought I would double check, to make sure everyone is clear about the protocol and what is accepted. Anything else? I'm excited by the strong turn out, and am looking forward to some good games to watch. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Hippo on Dec 31st, 2010, 3:52am I would prefere archive fetching to be delayed by say 10 minutes (I hope it's at least logged). And I would vote against discussing long term options in radio brodcasting. (Yes, I hope we all play on honor base, but it's better not to simplify/provoke the opposite.) ... I am not sure with my spoken English to comment on TeamSpeak, but I suppose I would use my "move generator" in chat. May be some would be generated well :). |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by rbarreira on Dec 31st, 2010, 8:56am on 12/31/10 at 03:52:40, Hippo wrote:
That seems like a very good idea to me, it might have some benefit and I don't see any downside. It's probably not so hard to implement either, just don't send any messages with timestamp > current_time () - 10 minutes. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Dec 31st, 2010, 9:21am on 12/31/10 at 00:58:10, Nombril wrote:
I am comfortable with the honor system, because cheating won't help much. Hearing two-move-old suggestions for long-range strategy is not very useful. Usually the timing is no longer good two moves later, and also if you couldn't think of a plan until two moves too late, you probably can't execute it properly anyway without the help of specific move suggestions. Perhaps we can just ask commentators not to suggest specific moves in tactically forced lines that extend beyond two moves; this seems like a relatively small sacrifice given how seldom tactically forced lines extend that far. This is a case where the potential damage from cheating seems negligible compared to the benefit of unfettered commentary. I would not want the commentators to hold back from saying interesting, instructive things about long-range strategy if it is unlikely to help a cheater anyway. Quote:
It will be obvious to you how to do it if you edit a page with a diagram, cut and paste that diagram into your own commentary, and then modify the diagram to reflect the position you are commenting on. Quote:
As above, I think the two-move delay takes care of most problems. Note that an extra ten-minute delay on the radio will be pointless without a similar extra delay on chat. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Hippo on Dec 31st, 2010, 9:42am OK, 2 moves delay could be sufficient for most of the cases, and it could be hard to concentrate both to the game and to analyse the discussion ... especially when someone asks ... what about this move ... and after 4 minutes the discussion continues ... no it is not good because of ... So I am OK with it as well. Connected question is ... Will we allow watching/listening the discussion (of players's game)? I still think it should remain forbidden. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Dec 31st, 2010, 9:50am on 12/31/10 at 09:42:59, Hippo wrote:
Yes, I think it should be forbidden, although it can't be prevented. Normally I dislike unenforceable rules, but in this case cheaters would gain so little from cheating that I don't mind the honor system. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Nombril on Dec 31st, 2010, 2:19pm on 12/31/10 at 03:52:40, Hippo wrote:
We are an international community - I don't think anyone will think less of you for not speaking perfect English! In any case, I'm certainly happy to have extra ideas to talk about, whether it is with a supporting voice or moves in the chat room. on 12/31/10 at 09:21:08, Fritzlein wrote:
I think the 10min delay was for the chat archive, since we can't see who is retrieving it. A 10 min makes sense here, since the chat doesn't know how the game is progressing. Radio and live chat will have the two move delay. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Jan 1st, 2011, 3:27pm Thanks for starting this Eric. I agree with Karl that the 2 move delay should be enough to prevent players for finding useful moves in the commentary. Although some long term strategic suggestions might still be useful two moves later. The players should logout of the chat room and TeamSpeak. The tournament rules state that: "Players are forbidden from using advice or suggestions from others or programs while playing the games. Any player doing so will be eliminated from the championship matches and will not be allowed to take part in future matches for two years." |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Jan 1st, 2011, 6:41pm With so many players signed up for the WC tournament this year, it would be great if the experience for the spectators could be made more enjoyable. Providing written highlights of the games and live commentary has definitely made the event more enjoyable in the past. But it takes a lot of effort from many people to make this happen. Karl (Fritzlein) initially started the whole idea of providing written highlights of the games by doing weekly postings about the WC tournament on his blog. We enjoyed reading them so much that we asked him to do it on a regular basis. In recent years Greg (Adanac) has taken on the role of providing event coverage with the help of other members of the community. As the number of games in each round of the Open Classic with be twice what we had last year, it will require even more help this year to provide event coverage. Writing highlights of the games is a great way to improve your Arimaa skills while making a useful contribution to the Arimaa community. Please post here if you would be able to help with writing highlights for some of the games. Greg would you be able to lead and coordinate the effort this year? Last year was the first time we tried having live commentary during the games. It turned out much better then I ever expected; although we have much to learn and improve. Karl seems to have a talent for doing commentary and draws quite a crowd. He has a good way of providing expert analysis of the situation without losing the audience by making it sound too technical. Many others helped with the commentary including Jean (chessandgo), Greg (Adanac), Ned (RonWeasley), Eric (Nombril), Joel (megajester) and myself. Although Joel only commentated in the last game we discovered he has a great voice and a great nack for being an anchor. I hope he will be able to help out more this year. I also think that there are many others who could help out with commentary and just need to step up and give it a try. Even if you can't provide expert analysis of the situation like the top players, you can still be an anchor and provide support to the main commentator. It really helps the main commentators to have someone give them a little break and fill in with general information about the game, mentions of the sponsors and even ask specific questions. With many more games going on this year especially during the Open Classic there will be many opportunities to provide commentary. So I hope we have more people who give it a try. Another area where we can use help is with recording the audio and video of commented games. I've found that using Audacity is best for capturing audio and still haven't found the best way to capture audio+video although I get by using CamStudio. It would be good to have multiple people do the recording so that if one does not turn out good, there is a backup. I want to give a big Thanks to everyone who signed up for the WC tournament. I am really excited about this event since this is the first time we've had this many players. I know there are many who were not able to participate due to time constraints. Perhaps they could still take an active role in the event by helping out with some of the items mentioned above whenever time permits. With more people providing a little support here and there I think the event will be enjoyable for everyone. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Jan 1st, 2011, 7:40pm Perhaps we can coordinate the event coverage using this shared spread sheet. http://bit.ly/ghAOnC |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Jan 1st, 2011, 8:43pm on 01/01/11 at 19:40:53, omar wrote:
Excellent idea Omar, especially with the large number of games in the Open Classic. That was a pleasant surprise after being stuck at 18 player for so long! I can be a co-ordinator for the Wiki tournament page. I'll update the standings and write a few reviews but I won't have enough time to do more than that this year. Given the size of this year's tournament I think we should write short game summaries (2-3 sentences) for each game but maybe have a couple of "feature" games each week that have more in-depth analysis and diagrams. It would also be great if one of the bot developers could help with the "feature" game analysis. In past years they've found some brilliant, non-intutive moves that really enhanced the game reviews. I hope to have enough time available to be a live broadcaster perhaps once per week. I think a 2-move delay is enough that we can have open radio broadcasts. Anyone that's hoping to advance to the Top 8 by eavesdropping on their own games is going to be sorely disappointed by the outcome. That could even be more distracting than beneficial. The only thing I don't like about the delays is that it causes the games to end abruptly but it's not that big of a deal. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Jan 4th, 2011, 7:15am on 01/01/11 at 20:43:23, Adanac wrote:
Thanks Greg. Your help is much appreciated. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Jan 4th, 2011, 7:16am I've added the list of games for round 1 to the shared the event coverage sheet. Please try to help out with writing game highlights. http://bit.ly/ghAOnC |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Jan 4th, 2011, 10:03am I have signed up for back-to-back commentary on Saturday morning, i.e. Harren vs. hanzack and chessandgo vs. megamau. I hope my voice holds out! In principle I have nothing against a co-commentator, but I think that with sixteen games we should first try to spread out our efforts to have as many games as possible with at least some commentary rather than fewer games with super-awesome commentary. The more games that have someone giving some thoughts, the more we sustain the sociable, conversational, participatory atmosphere of the World Championship. On the other hand, I realize that commentating chessandgo's game is a real plum job, and I am not trying to exclude anyone else from having a share of the World Champion's game, the game that is likely to have the most spectators. Yes, for someone who is trying out commentary for the first time it might be less intimidating to practice on a game with lower-rated players and a smaller audience, but I personally feel the allure of the limelight, so I don't want to shove anyone else aside. For this reason, if anyone else wants to commentate on the two games that I have claimed, please just sign up, and I will choose other games for my commentary. Don't be bashful about taking the spots that are best for you; I am happy to fill in to keep the commentary spread around and to not hog the best spots. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by ocmiente on Jan 4th, 2011, 9:26pm I don't know if I'm going to be up early enough on Saturday morning to record the commentary. If anyone else wants to do that, here's what I do: 1. Connect to TeamSpeak (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/teamSpeak.html), and make sure you can hear the speaker. 2. Click on the Tools > Start Recording menu item. The program will ask you for a file location. Once you do that and click OK, the recording will begin. 3. When the commentary is over, click Tools > Stop Recording. That's about it... The problem with this is that the file you get will be huge. Something like 700MB or so, depending on the length of the commentary. So, I downloaded Format Factory (http://www.pcfreetime.com/), which is a free program for converting various sound file formats. Use this to convert the wav file to an mp3. You need to click on the Audio button or tab on the left, then select All to MP3. A window will open. Click Add file in the upper right and select the wav file you just created from TeamSpeak. Then you can click on the Output Settings button to tweak the compression as you like. I usually just select the "Low Quality" setting in the drop down near the top left. Then click OK, and OK again in the other window. You should see a line in the main window that has your file ready for conversion. Click the Start button, and your file should be much smaller as an MP3 than it was as a wav file. When that's done, I let Omar know how to get it, and he links it to the game. So if you get far enough that you have an mp3 file, I recommend just contacting Omar and asking him what to do with it. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Nombril on Jan 4th, 2011, 10:37pm on 01/01/11 at 20:43:23, Adanac wrote:
Do you want me to send you any summaries I'm able to write? If you want me (and other new writers) to directly add to the Wiki, who needs to set up an account for us? |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Jan 5th, 2011, 12:37am Thanks for the tips on how to produce a recording Thomas. I've setup a folder called '2011 WC' where the audio and video files can be uploaded. http://arimaa.com/arimaa/ftp/ |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Jan 5th, 2011, 12:38am on 01/04/11 at 22:37:28, Nombril wrote:
I can setup that account for you. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Jan 6th, 2011, 5:29am Thanks for creating the 2011 Wiki page Fritzlein -- the player list was a big help in this 33 player tournament!! In case anyone isn't familiar with the Arimaa Wiki, here's a brief overview of the information for the World Championship: The main page has a list of the participants and the standings at the bottom sorted by pre-tournament ranking. http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/2011_World_Championship Every round will have its own page with standings sorted by number of wins, ties broken first by the Strength of Schedule formula then by pre-tournament rating. http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/2011_Open_Classic_Round_1 By the way, has anyone calculated the value of the Strength of Schedule variable yet? I can calculate it also, but I'd like to verify that I'm matching the official number (which I did not do last year!) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by megajester on Jan 6th, 2011, 10:42am on 01/04/11 at 07:16:12, omar wrote:
I've taken the liberty of reordering the list of games according to when they will play. If you want to get it back to the way it was, unhide columns B and C, select ONLY the rows with game information in them (NOT the whole worksheet), and sort by column B. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Sconibulus on Jan 6th, 2011, 11:46am What is the Strength of Schedule formula? I'd kinda assumed apparently incorrectly that it was based solely on opponent's wins, but that would imply that everyone would have 0 at this point, instead of .5 or .03 (Can't even see where that number came from, although the .5 might be from according both players half a point until they play, which would make the standings be the standings after pairings as opposed to after the end of the previous round, which is reasonable, provided that the standings at the end of each round are also visible somewhere, although I guess that would make sense to be at the end of the prior round's page... That stream kinda got away from me, so allow me to repeat the important part, a request for the formula used in determining Strength of Schedule. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Jan 6th, 2011, 12:00pm on 01/06/11 at 10:42:57, megajester wrote:
Thanks for changing that Joel. It makes the list much easier to match up with the list in the gameroom. When I had entered the pairings the game times had not been finalized yet. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Jan 6th, 2011, 12:04pm on 01/06/11 at 11:46:31, Sconibulus wrote:
It is given on this page: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/wc/2011/rules.html See #7 in the Tournament format section. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Jan 6th, 2011, 12:09pm I've setup the tournament to use the Swiss algorithm which allows dropping out and late joins. I did this in case a player drops out of the tournament before it is over. Chances of this are higher when you have more players. It uses a slightly different SoS which was discussed in a thread that I can't seem to find right now. I hope this should be OK. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Jan 6th, 2011, 1:33pm on 01/06/11 at 12:04:54, omar wrote:
Omar, what value did you calculate for the F factor in this formula? I just want to be sure that I'm using the same number for the tournament Wiki. If someone drops out of the tournament will we re-calculate it? |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Jan 7th, 2011, 10:01am on 01/06/11 at 12:04:54, omar wrote:
Hmmm, the rules don't say whether we should use the population standard deviation of 319.6455251 or the sample standard deviation of 324.6015652. It seems the population number is more appropriate, but I'll wager the "stdev" function returns the sample number. No big deal either way, because a small change in the F factor is extremely unlikely to change the order of the SoS, even if it changes everyone's value of SoS slightly. The important point is that games against nearly-equal opponents count way more than games against opponents that are significantly above or below, which is ensured by either factor of F. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Jan 7th, 2011, 10:16am on 01/07/11 at 10:01:14, Fritzlein wrote:
I updated my program yesterday to use 3.746 as the F factor. I agree with you that it probably doesn't matter either way but I'd like to confirm with Omar for consistency purposes (rounding to 3 digits should be close enough?) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Jan 8th, 2011, 4:53am There was a request in the chatroom to show the WHR ratings for both players in the same row. The Table of Contents will now be updated each round with WHR for each player. I'll show pre-tournament WHR every round rather than try to update it every week with the most recent rating. http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/2011_Open_Classic_Round_1 |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Jan 8th, 2011, 10:01am on 01/08/11 at 04:53:10, Adanac wrote:
Nice feature; thanks for including it. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Nombril on Jan 8th, 2011, 3:31pm Thanks! Starting WHR makes the most sense for this tournament. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by woh on Jan 12th, 2011, 6:19am In the Round 1 standings (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/2011_Open_Classic_Round_1) the player who recieved a Bye has a SoS of 0.0132, the same as the players who won their first round game. I would expect a value of 0.0000 since this player has had no opponent so far. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Jan 12th, 2011, 8:38am on 01/12/11 at 06:19:22, woh wrote:
I'll wait for a ruling from Omar or Ned on this one before updating my program for the Wiki standings. I credit them with having a "0 win opponent" which is different than an opponent that provides no SoS. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Jan 12th, 2011, 1:36pm on 01/12/11 at 08:38:37, Adanac wrote:
I see the spreadsheet is up for round 2 -- thanks Omar. I've volunteered for the 1st 2 games (commentary & highlights). After that I'll have a very busy weekend and I won't be able to commentate at all or even watch games. I will however, update the Wiki standings each night after all the evening games are complete. In week 3 I'm scheduled to have corrective laser eye surgery and I have to minimize eye strain. So I'll hope for a late Sunday/Monday game and I'll be doing very little other than quickly keeping the Wiki standings up-to-date and then logging out. Absolutely no commentating or game highlights for me next week!! |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by JoeHead on Jan 12th, 2011, 1:58pm I must express my thanks and admiration when I see such careful and quality coverage on wikipedia. Very fine job is done. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Nombril on Jan 13th, 2011, 10:35pm on 01/12/11 at 13:36:08, Adanac wrote:
Thanks for the warning! I'll plan on writing up a few more games. If there is anyone willing to pitch in for the next two weekends with a few write ups, but doesn't want to deal with the diagrams or Wiki, I'm willing to take any text and put it on-line. I'll even do the diagram if you tell me what move you want shown. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Jan 14th, 2011, 8:22pm I will be in a position to give commentary this Sunday. I'm so eager that I have signed up for both Nombril vs. chessandgo and for ocmiente vs. Tuks. Perhaps this will leave me tired heading into my game against Hippo, but I can't resist. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Jan 17th, 2011, 10:26am Omar, for the commentary that is already captured, could you put it in the permanent location so that it can be linked from the event reporting page? That would make it convenient to find which games have audio, and also have the written commentary and link to the board all together in one place with the audio link. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Jan 17th, 2011, 11:15pm I'm going to try to commentate three games this round: Heyckie vs. Nombril on Saturday morning before I ruin my voice yelling while I play frisbee, and then Adanac vs. Nevermind and chessandgo vs. rabbits on Sunday after my voice has recovered overnight. :-) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Jan 18th, 2011, 8:45am on 01/12/11 at 08:38:37, Adanac wrote:
Here are the SoS values being used by the WC pairing program. It is the second number after the username. It is the SoS value going into the round. http://arimaa.com/arimaa/events/showGames.cgi?e=2011wc Here is the pairing program: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/wc/2011/swissJuhnkeDJ |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Jan 18th, 2011, 9:02am on 01/17/11 at 10:26:37, Fritzlein wrote:
Originally I was just capturing the audio, thinking that I will go back and make a video from it by running the game client in auto-play mode, but the 2 move delay messes up the synchronizing. So we have to capture both audio and video at the same time. Capturing the commentary has not been working well for me this year. I am using Camtasia 7, which is what I had used last year. But I forgot to write down the settings I had used and I'm not being able to find the right settings again. First I was having problems with the audio not getting recorded at all. Then I had problems with the video replay being slanted. Now I seem to be having problems with the A/V sync getting worse as the video progresses. I've uploaded the files to the ftp area. I don't think any are really good enough to move to the permenant storage. I need to continue experimenting with the settings to eliminate the sync problem. Each test takes a while since the video needs to be captured for about 30 minutes to check if the sync is right. I'm using MPEG4 encoding for video and MP3 for audio; the frame rate is 10 per second. It produces small files (under 1 MB per minute) and the A/V quality is pretty good. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Jan 18th, 2011, 10:11am Synchronized audio and video is wonderful, but even when that isn't possible or convenient, the audio alone has considerable value. One can open the game and manually replay the moves along with the commentary. It would be a shame if all the audio recordings are discarded (or not even captured!) because we let a desire for video get in the way. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Jan 18th, 2011, 10:29am I won't be able to spend too much time on Arimaa this week. If there are still games from rounds 2 & 3 that do not have game reports by next Monday then I'll try to catch up as much as possible during week 4. I will briefly log in a few times this weekend to update the standings on the Wiki. A big thanks to everyone who helped out in round 2 and is planning to create reports in round 3 :) And, of course, thanks again to Omar and Ned for running a great World Championship tournament! |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Jan 19th, 2011, 3:26pm on 01/18/11 at 10:11:34, Fritzlein wrote:
Yes, I had put up the audio files I had capture up there also. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Jan 19th, 2011, 4:14pm on 01/19/11 at 15:26:45, omar wrote:
Oh, great. So they are in their permanent location and can be linked from the games in the event report wiki? What is the directory so that I can do the linking? |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by clojure on Jan 22nd, 2011, 2:55pm Just wanted to thank everyone who has commented on wiki or had radio broadcast (+ of course for organizers). It makes the games so much more accessible to digest and fun to watch. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Jan 23rd, 2011, 10:45am OK, I finally took the plunge of doing the whole chain myself: commentate/record/convert/upload. I just followed ocmiente's instructions, and it wasn't difficult at all. Now I am embarrassed that I avoided trying it for so long. :P It appears that this round we will have fourteen of the sixteen games commentated in all. What an amazing effort by the Arimaa community! I love being a part of a community where everyone pitches in. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Nombril on Jan 23rd, 2011, 9:53pm on 01/18/11 at 10:29:44, Adanac wrote:
I did as many as I could today, but don't expect to have anymore time for writing game reports until after round 4 is finished. I think The_Jeh is writing up a report on the game he did commentary for. I don't know if anyone else is planning on writing a summary. Here are some notes from the chatroom I copied in case anyone wants to use them in the game reports: 11:02:14 Fritzlein Oh, and I think you are dead on about 14g being the turning point of 99of9 vs. Tuks. I think gold was better until that point 05:55:52 chessandgo I think before 14g, your Horse is well placed on e5 Toby, ready to replace your E on e6. When you moved your H toward g5 and Tuks got his own horse blocking the way to e6, I think that was the turning point. 10:33:40 rabbits oh my! woh made a camel blunder, but megamau missed it! 10:36:42 rabbits 9s and 10g |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Jan 24th, 2011, 12:20am I tried recording the audio and video for more games this round, but they didn't come out very well. The sync problem is still there. Also in some the volume did not come through. But I've uploaded them to the ftp area in case anyone wants to play around with them. I recorded the chessandgo vs rabbits game in FLV format because that format doesn't have sync problems even through the file size comes out much bigger. I didn't want to miss this game. The FLV file is about 580 MB. I came across a really good screen recording program today and it seems to be producing small size files with good quality and synchronized audio/video. I re-recorded the chessandgo vs rabbits game and now the file is about 60 MB. I have uploaded it to the ftp area and also moved it over to the permanent area: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/videos/2011wc/R3-chessandgo-rabbits.avi I'm glad I was able to capture this one. Hopefully the future games will be recorded correctly. The program I am using now is called 'ZD Soft Screen Recorder'. Just google for it and download it; it has a free 30 day trial. It is very inexpensive compared to most other similar programs. So it's really worth buying. You also need to install the LAME MP3 encoder. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrqFXVCrPPc The settings I use for ZD are: Video: Capture Selected View frame rate: 10fps Video Codec: H.264/MPEG-4 AVC (don't mess with the Config options) Audio: Capture from Speaker Audio Codec: LAME Audio Encoder Config: constant bit rate of 16 kbps; 22.05 kHz samples per second If anyone else is planning to help with recording the AV I would highly recommend this program. It seems to be good at keeping the audio and video in sync while producing very small files. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Hippo on Jan 24th, 2011, 4:21am Does anybody have Hippo x Naveed audio? I would like to listen it and I am not able from the avi. ... I have increased volume by AUDIOCITY (or so) by 35dB ... there are disturbing noises, but most of the talk could be understood ... |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Jan 24th, 2011, 7:12am on 01/24/11 at 00:20:08, omar wrote:
Thanks for the link Omar. I have a couple of questions though: In the Wiki, I'd like to put an audio/video link in each game's report section, just like in 2010. However, I get an error message when I try to see which files are in the directory: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/videos/2011wc/ Forbidden You don't have permission to access /arimaa/videos/2011wc/ on this server. Even though I can't see the folder, I guessed at the URL link for the Nevermind-The_Jeh avi file. However, this link didn't work: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/videos/2011wc/R2-Nevermind-The_Jeh.avi Is this in the directory yet or is it under a different name? Thanks! |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Nombril on Jan 24th, 2011, 8:37am I am guessing that Omar has not copied the files over yet, and most of them are just on the ftp http://arimaa.com/arimaa/ftp/ |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by camelback on Jan 24th, 2011, 1:44pm I've been on a month long vacation so far and missed the championship :( I'll attempt to do some write-up on round-3 games and upcoming rounds. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Jan 24th, 2011, 4:18pm on 01/24/11 at 13:44:48, camelback wrote:
Great, thanks for chipping in! on 01/24/11 at 13:44:48, camelback wrote:
You were vacationing somewhere with no Internet access? ??? But luckily the World Championship has more ways for players to participate this year, even if they missed registration. Specifically, you can listen to audio commentary and giving audio commentary. Jump on in; the water's fine. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Hippo on Jan 24th, 2011, 5:50pm Fritzlein x Hanzack.avi takes more than 5 hours, it started after the position becomes rather easy and real brodcasting ends at around 50-55 minutes. Cutting it would shorten the file significantly. ... and I could understand Fritzlein clearly and with big dificulties myself. ... I should work on it. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Jan 24th, 2011, 9:44pm Round 4, I can give live audio on ocmiente vs. Nombril, hanzack vs. omar, and Nevermind vs. woh. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Hippo on Jan 25th, 2011, 1:23pm on 01/24/11 at 21:44:03, Fritzlein wrote:
Updated at https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ArwwZixnxnGrdGtGeXotbHlLc1BMVUkwRWRYVm5EbGc&hl=en&authkey=CKjA3IMK#gid=3 Unfortunately the night games I would otherwise comment are starting at 2:00, 3:00 and 4:00 am. I don't think I would be awake for that. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Jan 25th, 2011, 2:42pm Adanac, sorry I forgot to set view access for the 2011wc directory. Should be OK now. Hippo; I messed up the audio for some of the games. I think Hippo vs naveed was one of them. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Jan 25th, 2011, 2:58pm I've made changes on the server to implement time based delay of moves visible to the spectators. For rated event games, the new implementation will delay the game moves by 3*T if the T parameter is available and by 2 moves (4 ply) if it is not available. Postal games will always be delayed by 2 moves. It works OK in the JavaScript and Flash V2 client. It kind of works in the Flash V1 client, but the timers are off. Since the WC games have a maximum time per turn parameter, they will be delayed by time rather than by 2 turns. The preliminary games have T=4m so the moves of the game will appear 12 minutes after they were made. When the game ends the remaining moves don't all appear at once and continue to be time delayed. Now we will be able to tell how long the players thought on each move. Also audio recordings can later be synced with the client running in auto-play mode. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Jan 25th, 2011, 6:48pm There seems to be a problem with the commentary spreadsheet. The time slot 116 (for naveed vs. megamau and The_Jeh vs. chessandgo) corresponds to 1:00 Monday, but the games are scheduled a day earlier in the game room, for 1:00 Sunday. I am afraid this problem is not actually a bug in the spreadsheet, but rather a bug in the way selected time slots are converted into scheduled games in the game room. P.S. There seems to be some kind of discontinuity around Friday, whereby games scheduled after Friday have all been moved 24 hours earlier. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Jan 25th, 2011, 7:24pm on 01/25/11 at 14:58:45, omar wrote:
Thanks Omar -- that sounds like a really great improvement, for both types of synchronization! We should remind the players when they re-enter the chatroom that if there was a close rabbit-race finish that they should keep the winner a secret. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by The_Jeh on Jan 25th, 2011, 8:43pm on 01/25/11 at 18:48:39, Fritzlein wrote:
I hope it's a spreadsheet problem, since I certainly did not select any times on Monday. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Jan 25th, 2011, 9:37pm on 01/25/11 at 20:43:25, The_Jeh wrote:
Oh, I guess it is a spreadsheet problem. Omar explained to me that the spreadsheet numbers didn't come from the scheduler, but rather were entered manually. So I'll just fix them manually and all will be well. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by 99of9 on Jan 26th, 2011, 12:06am on 01/25/11 at 14:58:45, omar wrote:
I agree that synchronization is an improvement, but I think 12 minutes is a bit extreme. Before we only had to skip through about 4 minutes worth of moves once the game was over. Now we will either have to try to immediately wrap up 12 minutes of material if the remaining moves are instantly shown, or the players will have to sit around for 12 minutes if they want to discuss the game with spectators. That's a long wait in the middle of the night. I'd prefer 2*T or a fixed 5 minutes. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by rbarreira on Jan 26th, 2011, 7:58am on 01/25/11 at 14:58:45, omar wrote:
That's really nice (though I agree with 99of9 that the delay could be smaller). Any chance of getting a similar time delay for the Computer Championship, or even eliminate the delay completely for bot vs bot games? There's no maximum turn time in the CC time control so I guess it would still use the 2-move delay for now. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by megajester on Jan 26th, 2011, 5:18pm Due to time differences most of the games this round will be in the small hours of the morning for me. Also I'm not around this weekend, so I'm afraid I'll be of no use this round for commentary/anchoring. FYI |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Jan 27th, 2011, 2:30pm Toby, I thought that 3*T would be the least delay to ensure that even if the players had lots of reserve and used the maximum time per turn there would still be about a two move gap between the move the player is working on and the move being commented about. After the game is over, the moves continue to be delayed and are not all shown at once. Ricardo, bot vs bot games won't be delayed now. Thanks for the suggestion. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Jan 27th, 2011, 2:57pm on 01/27/11 at 14:30:53, omar wrote:
Omar, for the finals I assume the delay between moves will increase to 15 minutes? After the Open Classic is finished can we drop the delay down to 2*T? I doubt that anyone finishing in the top 8 will benefit from a 10-minute audio delay and it would reduce the post-game interview delays by 5 minutes. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Jan 30th, 2011, 4:41pm on 01/07/11 at 10:01:14, Fritzlein wrote:
Omar's code is dividing by #players+1. I don't understand why, because it should be divided by either #players (population) or #players-1 (sample). Code:
on 01/07/11 at 10:16:39, Adanac wrote:
Adanac, you are using sample standard deviation. I believe this explains the discrepancy between your SoS and Omar's. Perhaps you can check this although it still leaves open the question of what should be done. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by aaaa on Jan 30th, 2011, 5:25pm "$#" before an array returns the index of its last element and since arrays are zero-based in Perl... |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by chessandgo on Jan 31st, 2011, 10:34am Well, and I thought the 2-mn delay was an over-reaction :) More seriously, 12 mn delay (and 15 during the finals)? As far as I can tell, the inconvenience for dozens of spectators during hundreds of games will over-weigh by much the possible inconvenience possibly caused by a possible attempt at cheating through live commentary eavesdropping. That's probably not worth anything but I'm favor of the smallest delay possible. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Janzert on Jan 31st, 2011, 11:49am I agree with Chessandgo, and find my irritation from the delay growing with each game I watch. I understand some commentators feel constrained and don't want to commentate without it. I wouldn't want to lose any of the commentary; but I really do hope the delay can be lowered from what it is now though. Janzert |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Jan 31st, 2011, 2:15pm So both of you prefer the previous 2-move (4-ply) delay that we had to the current 12-minute delay? I also prefer the 2-move delay because it is shorter on average, although the synching of thinking times has some benefit too, so I don't have a strong preference between the two. What I definitely wouldn't like to see is a fixed four-minute delay. If I were giving commentary, it would bug me to know that any time a cheater wanted to know what I thought of his move 17g before he made move 18g, he only has to dip into reserve a bit to hear what I have to say about it. He can choose to get my opinion about his last move before making the present move. That is too much potential benefit for cheating, so I think I would simply refrain from giving commentary in that situation. Yes, the two-move delay works out to a four-minute delay on average, but the difference is that with a two-move delay a cheater, before hearing what I think about any of his decisions, would have to make two additional decisions, usually making it too late to benefit from my opinion. Having this buffer matters far more to me than having the displayed thinking times synch up with the actual thinking times. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Nombril on Jan 31st, 2011, 2:24pm It seems 2*T (for the preliminaries at least) would be long enough to satisfy the cheating concerns, and would lessen the wait for post game interviews. Actually, the wait didn't bother me, there were some benefits. I found it very interesting to hear the last minutes of commentary. It also gives a chance for post game interviews to be more collected, as I also had a chance to quickly review the game. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by The_Jeh on Jan 31st, 2011, 2:30pm Forgive my computer illiteracy if this is too complicated to implement, but would it be possible to use a short time delay that then pauses momentarily after a move is displayed if the actual game has not moved at least two moves ahead? (Heh, seems like we're always demanding more and more sophistication. I actually was okay with the two-move delay. It allowed me to see the game without fear of cheating while still having a live connection to it.) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Jan 31st, 2011, 2:52pm on 01/31/11 at 14:24:46, Nombril wrote:
I guess everyone will have a different estimation of (a) how much a cheater could benefit from listening to live commentary, (b) how likely anyone is to take advantage of that benefit by cheating, (c) how damaging it is to the World Championship and to the Arimaa community if cheating does occur, and (d) how much of a burden it is on the spectators to see a delayed game. I view the choice between a 2-move delay and a 3*T delay mostly as a discussion of (d), i.e. both options seem to minimize (a), so it is a question of which kind of delay is better for the spectators. It seems, however, that the discussion is unlikely to stay confined these two options. Reducing the delay to 2*T makes it a question of balancing (a) against (d), which will inevitably lead back to disagreement about (b) and (c). I have a very high estimate for (c), and while I think (b) is relatively low, it would be absurd to think the probability is negligible given that it has already happened at least once. I am comfortable with either a two-move delay or a 3*T delay, but if there is a reduction in either, I will refrain from giving live commentary. I understand that all of (a), (b), (c), and (d) are very subjective and that reasonable people may differ. Everyone will have a personal level of comfort. Nombril will give live commentary if the delay is 2*T. Chessandgo will give live commentary with no delay. If either of these happens, I will do my best to refrain from any bitterness or rancor. I will not accuse Nombril and chessandgo of aiding and abetting cheaters. I hope, however, that in return no one will accuse me of "burning down the village" if I refrain from giving commentary when the delay is set too short for my comfort. Quote:
So to you, (d) was relatively small? The spectator delay is not annoying you more every game as it is Janzert? |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Nombril on Jan 31st, 2011, 3:15pm Yes, as a spectator, for me the impact of the delay is small to the point of being insignificant. I had originally thought that the apparent think time not being in sync for the viewed move was not worth worrying about. But now that I have experienced it both ways I much prefer the fixed delay (even at 3x). on 01/31/11 at 14:15:00, Fritzlein wrote:
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Hippo on Jan 31st, 2011, 3:21pm I like the 12 minutes delay. I don't have problem with skip to/from the future. I just start watching 12 minutes later ... so the only problem is the post game waiting for spectators. I actualy need another future ... it would be much more fun if player of the finished game could enter the spectator's mode to know what are others talking about waiting without this knowledge is hmmm inconvinient. There is an option with fake/guest accounts, but logging during the game would be required ... . So possibility to enter already finished game not replyed yet would be helpful. And ability to switch self to delay mode as well. OK there is one more inconvinience ... switching from commentary mode to player mode shortens the gap by 12 minutes ... |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Jan 31st, 2011, 3:34pm on 01/31/11 at 15:15:37, Nombril wrote:
Sorry; the problem was that I hadn't fully thought it through myself. It occurred to me while thinking about it that the times at which help from commentary is most likely to be useful are the times when both players are already dipping into their reserve. So although 2*T is an average delay of four moves in the preliminary, it is exactly the critical points of the game when 2*T is likely to be less than a two-move delay. Anyway, I didn't realize you were interpreting what I said. I thought that the suggestion of 2*T was your own opinion of what would be a safe margin. I apologize for the misunderstanding. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Jan 31st, 2011, 4:29pm [quote author=Fritzlein link=board=events;num=1293778690;start=60#74 date=01/31/11 at 14:52:36] I guess everyone will have a different estimation of (a) how much a cheater could benefit from listening to live commentary, (b) how likely anyone is to take advantage of that benefit by cheating, (c) how damaging it is to the World Championship and to the Arimaa community if cheating does occur, and (d) how much of a burden it is on the spectators to see a delayed game. [/quote] Here are my thoughts: (a) The greater the difference between the players and the commentators rating, the greater the benefit. Id have no problem with live commentary if two 1800-rated commentators were discussing the World Championship Final, but its a big problem if World Champion commentators are discussing a game between 1800-rated players. (b) Fairly high in a large Open tournament, extremely low in the Top 8 Finals. Low because there will be less of a gap in talent between commentators and players and Top 8 Finalists have already proven their skills during the time-delayed Open Classic. (c) It would be a huge credibility blow to holding online tournaments if cheating were discovered in the WC. (d) Very low once spectators get used to tuning in at quarter past the hour rather than the scheduled time. The unsynchronized clocks were the biggest problem but thats been resolved with the new system. Its the players who get the real benefit & drawbacks of delayed broadcasts. I like Nombrils suggestion of using the delay period to review the game if you want to participate in a post-game interview. That could actually help the spectators quite a bit because the interviewee will be better prepared to discuss the game. Its a mixed bag for players in other games the same day. If your game precedes the one that you want to watch, the delay helps you. If your game occurs later then youll lose 12-15 minutes of viewing time. Same thing with time zones: if the game you want to watch is early in the morning then the delay helps. If its late at night, it hurts. Again, its the players who will be affected the most: if youre playing late at night, or in the morning before work/class, youll be less likely to participate in a post-game interview (or discuss the game in chat) if you have to wait 12-15 minutes after the game. I lobbied for a shorter delay earlier, especially for the Finals when the delay will increase to 15 minutes. But now that Ive typed out my thoughts, I realize that I have no serious problem with a 15 minute delay. Eliminating this type of cheating is a big advantage whereas these drawbacks are all relatively minor: 1. Ideally players shouldnt login to the chatroom until the game has ended for the spectators. In reality, that never seemed to happen during round 4. 2. Longer delays will slightly reduce the chances of getting post-game interviews with the players (same thing with chatroom discussions). 3. New fans of Arimaa might get discouraged if they show up at the start of a game only to learn that they have to wait 12-15 extra minutes for the real spectator start time. 4. Some spectators may feel that games are less exciting knowing that all the moves occurred in the past. Im one of those people, but I suppose I can get used to delayed broadcasts without too much trouble. It usually doesnt bother me that sports are not truly live.** ** except Toronto Maple Leaf home games. I live next to the Air Canada Centre and the foghorn gives away Leaf goals 30+ seconds before they actually occur. Very annoying! Fortunately, the only Arimaa equivalent is players revealing the outcome in the chatroom, but once we get used to the delay that habit should be weaned out of us. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Hippo on Jan 31st, 2011, 4:58pm Supppose players could enter the delayed mode after the game ends. If there is radio broadcast, they could silently listen letting the game actually ended in secret. If there is no teamspeak broadcast, they could fetch chat archive and let it be secret as well. But in the case teamspeak broadcast (must in the case of parallel games), they would be cut of the commentary or the secret vanishes. I don't know what's the best decision. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by rbarreira on Jan 31st, 2011, 5:55pm I think the current solution of using a time delay is probably the best one. It keeps the game experience as close to reality as possible, with no distortion on thinking times which for me was annoying with the two-move delay. All that's needed for it not to spoil the spectator experience is for the players to not comment on the game until the lagged game is over. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Nombril on Jan 31st, 2011, 6:09pm The 2x delay had originally been 99of9's suggestion, I was just repeating it in a hope to find common ground between those that wanted a delay and those that didn't. Maybe it was optimistic that there was an answer that would make everyone happy? :P I'll point out that the actual case of cheating during the AWL involved a player using a specific move that was suggested for a particular turn, so even a 4 min delay would have prevented it. Though with a static position, sometimes the move is available a turn later, so I'm happy with 2x or 3x delay. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Feb 1st, 2011, 10:38am John (The_Jeh) it would be get complicated to add a time delay that pauses to make sure it maintains a time game of two moves. Even a straight forward fixed time delay was complicated to add. Also initially I didn't think that a fixed time delay would be sufficient to prevent cheating because a could build up reserve and then move very slow to have the commentary and game position sync. Fortunately games that have a maximum time per turn can provide a guarantee that this cannot happen. What was really annoying me about the move based delays was we kept having to explain in the commentary that because the player is thinking for a long time now it mean that two moves later the position required a long think; then when we get to that position the player moves fast because two moves later there was a trade. The commentator didn't get to talk about the position that required a long think. Also climatic endings like the rabbits vs chessandgo were getting ruined by the last few moves suddenly appearing and the client making the win/lose sound while the commentator is still talking about a tense position. Also recording just the audio of the commentary was of no use because it could not be synced later using the auto-play feature of the client. As a spectator I find the time delayed games much more enjoyable than the move delayed games. Experiencing the time a player spent on a move feels like it's a critical part of watching a live game. Remember that not all games can be delayed by time. It is limited only to games that have a maximum time per turn. Also postal games will never by delayed by time and only by moves. Someday I'm going to have to add a field to the database to force a game to be delayed or not delayed. It's on my todo list. I think I've fixed the problem with the finished game showing up as a recent game or other list in the gameroom. So spectators will not have any way to tell the result of the game unless the players leak it. The players will need a little time to get used to not showing up in the chatroom as soon as the game is over. I forgot about it myself :-) Vladan (Hippo), the players can watch the game as a spectator by opening it from the 'Live Games' section rather than opening it from the 'My Games' section. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Feb 1st, 2011, 11:55am on 02/01/11 at 10:38:39, omar wrote:
Omar, did you just make a change to this? It has not been true so far. That is to say, when the game was over, it disappeared from the 'Live Games' section. The people who were already watching it could continue to spectate, but the players themselves could not start spectating after the game ended. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Hippo on Feb 1st, 2011, 1:26pm on 02/01/11 at 10:38:39, omar wrote:
OK, I have not tried that. I were not expecting that. But at least for postal games that works well ... my event games are delayed by 2 turns if opened from postal games menu. So player have to open 2nd window from live games before the game ends to know when the game ends for spectators (rather than measuring 12 minutes). And if there is radio brodcast he can enjoy the dejavue. So you all recommend not to enter the chatroom before the delay "disappears"? Even in case of technical problems? |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by ocmiente on Feb 2nd, 2011, 5:33pm For anyone who knows how to edit the Wiki, on the 2011 Open Classic Round 3 Wiki page (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/2011_Open_Classic_Round_3), the link to 722caasi vs. ocmiente is incorrect. The correct game number is 168789. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by megajester on Feb 2nd, 2011, 5:55pm on 02/02/11 at 17:33:28, ocmiente wrote:
Done |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Feb 4th, 2011, 9:44am Well, the layer of ice that cancelled four days of school has now been supplemented by 3-4 inches of snow. We were planning to go to a Mendelssohn concert this evening, but now that has been cancelled too. I have been cooped up in this house so long I am going crazy! And we don't even have a television... but anyway, as long as I am here, I might as well give commentary on Nombril vs. hanzack. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by mistre on Feb 4th, 2011, 11:17am on 02/01/11 at 10:38:39, omar wrote:
Glad you could fix this - it was anticlimatic to see the game conclusion in the gameroom before the game was finished! As for players not showing up in the chat until the game is over for spectators - is there any way this can be enforced or at least timed so that the player knows when they can join the chat? Or is the player supposed to watch the end of his own game? Some kind of guideline would be helpful. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Feb 5th, 2011, 9:44am Is anyone else getting this error when they try to connect to TeamSpeak? <10:39:57> Trying to resolve hostname talk.arimaa.com <10:39:57> Trying to connect to server on talk.arimaa.com:9987 <10:40:03> Failed to connect to server I've searched various forums to see if anyone could suggest a solution. Quite a few people have created threads about similar problems but I've yet to find any solutions. My headphone works just fine and I've tried uninstalling and re-installing TeamSpeak with no luck. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Eltripas on Feb 5th, 2011, 10:19am on 02/05/11 at 09:44:10, Adanac wrote:
I have the same problem, I just keep trying until it connects. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Feb 5th, 2011, 2:38pm on 02/01/11 at 11:55:04, Fritzlein wrote:
Yes, this was changed when I changed it so that the result is not reported until the delay time is over. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Feb 5th, 2011, 2:42pm on 02/04/11 at 11:17:33, mistre wrote:
Not easy to enforce this. It would be best if the players just watch the end of their own game before coming into the chatroom. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Feb 5th, 2011, 2:46pm on 02/05/11 at 10:19:44, Eltripas wrote:
That's strange. Sometimes if the server is upgraded the clients need to be upgraded in order to be able to connect to the server. But, I have not upgraded the server recently. I'll restart the server in case it might help. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Feb 6th, 2011, 9:48pm Omar proposed an idea for co-commentating that I'd like to try in round 6. One commentator suggests moves for Gold then after the move has been played the 2nd commentator suggests a move for silver. This could be interesting if the two commentators have different styles that match up with the corresponding player. For example, it just so happens that many of the pairings for Round 6 feature a strategic player versus a tactical player. Everyone uses both strategy & tactics, of course, but I'm labelling based upon each player's forte. Fritzlein vs. Chessandgo rabbits vs. Tuks woh vs. hanzack etc. are a few examples of strategic vs. tactical battles in round 6. I'd be willing to experiment with this for 1 or more games this round if anyone else wants to give it a shot. I'd be most comfortable suggesting moves for Chessandgo/Tuks/hanzack, etc. since they're the players whose moves I'm more likely to correctly predict. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Feb 6th, 2011, 10:33pm Intriguing! I'll bet that Nombril can predict more of my moves than you can predict of chessandgo's moves. But mostly that is because I am so predictable. ::) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Nombril on Feb 6th, 2011, 10:48pm I did notice that Fritz's postgame analysis was pretty close to what I had been saying during the live game. And also chessandgo's comments in chat often agreed with Adanac's statements on the commentary... I'm up for the challenge, and would be willing to take up the opposite half of the games Adanac mentioned. (Well, I probably wouldn't be able to do all three...) Since some of the scheduled times change on Tuesday, I'll plan on reviewing my own schedule then, and hopefully some of our times will match up. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by chessandgo on Feb 7th, 2011, 1:28pm on 02/06/11 at 21:48:54, Adanac wrote:
I suppose I'm the strategic player here then? :) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by chessandgo on Feb 7th, 2011, 1:30pm on 02/06/11 at 22:48:44, Nombril wrote:
Actually I was pretty much typing things and then erasing them as you were saying them aloud (or as rabbits were playing them) the whole way :) But yeah, I suppose I took quite a few things from Adanac's play. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Feb 7th, 2011, 2:16pm on 02/07/11 at 13:28:51, chessandgo wrote:
Heh, I would cast the difference between me and you as more material-oriented versus goal-oriented. When you and I disagree about a position, it is usually because I value a material advantage more highly and you value a goal attack more highly. I wish I could claim to be more strategic than you and attribute all of your victories over me to superior tactics, but the sad reality is that you are better than me at both strategy and at tactics. :'( P.S. In the past when I have praised you, in the week before we play a tournament game, as being a better player than I am, you have described it as "psychological warfare". My stance is that if you don't want me to say you are a better player than I am, then you need to start losing to me more often. :D |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Feb 8th, 2011, 9:47am I can co-commentate on two games this week: jdb vs. Nevermind (with Fritzlein) and Fritzlein vs. Chessandgo (with Nombril). I might do knarl vs. ginrunner on Friday (anyone want to co-commentate?) but it depends on whether I can get out of work as early as Im supposed to. Where the other commentator agrees to it, this week I'd prefer to experiment with Omar's suggestion of alternating commentary after each move. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Feb 8th, 2011, 5:01pm So I'll do jdb and you'll do Nevermind? The other games I am hoping to commentate (with or without a co-commentator) are Nombril vs. Adanac and Hippo vs. Sconibulus. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Feb 10th, 2011, 9:49am I have updated the commentary spreadsheet. Thanks to whoever was doing this every round until now (Hippo?); it's a little fussy. But it was good for me to get a primer in Google spreadsheet. :) We have coverage for five games already; more commentary/co-commentary is always welcome. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Feb 14th, 2011, 9:51pm I believe I will be able to commentate for both Tuks vs. hanzack and chessandgo vs. Nombril. Earlier in the tournament I was encouraging other commentators to spread around among the games so that a higher percentage of games would have at least some commentary. Now that we are down to just four games, I am hopeful that all games will have at least one comentator, so if folks would like to join me commentating my two games of choice I have no objections. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by chessandgo on Feb 15th, 2011, 3:13am Ok, I hadn't commentated any WC game yet, I've finally made the leap with Adanac-rabbits. I've put my name as "main commentator", but actually if someone wants to commentate with me I'll likely take the co-commentator position :) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Feb 15th, 2011, 7:14am By process of elimination, I'll volunteer for Hippo-Fritzlein. We have guests over that day, but they're supposed to leave before 4pm :-X |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Feb 15th, 2011, 8:20am I've put the Open Classic final standings and Finals pairings on the main page. http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/2011_World_Championship Camelback has also updated the page for rounds 1 & 2 (except I wrote the intro paragraph): http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/2011_World_Championship_Finals%2C_Rounds_1-2 To better reflect hanzack's true WHR, I've posted the new pre-Finals WHR in the standings. I hope nobody minds that, but I feel that it's an improvement to use ratings that better reflect his ability (not perfect, but it's closer). I think I'll re-input Hippo's new WHR tomorrow because today's value probably doesn't include his 6th round game. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Feb 15th, 2011, 9:17am Thanks, Adanac, for keeping the crosstable updated throughout the preliminaries. I found myself constantly consulting it. Jean, I am thrilled that you will be commentating a game in this World Championships! I won't be able to listen live, but hopefully Omar will be able to record it so that I can replay it Saturday evening. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Hippo on Feb 15th, 2011, 4:04pm on 02/15/11 at 08:20:07, Adanac wrote:
Hmm, postal with mistre affects my whr more than game with Trevor, but I suppose the exact time of getting the whr does not matter. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Feb 16th, 2011, 10:13am I've linked every commentary in this folder http://arimaa.com/arimaa/videos/2011wc/ to the Wiki. There were other recorded broadcasts that haven't been uploaded to this particular folder yet but I'll wait until they're in this location so that we have a consistent and permanent link for all the files. There are 8 video files from the 5th round, so that's a particularly good place to start if you want to review the games: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/2011_Open_Classic_Round_5 EDIT: Hmmm, now that I think about it, just use the top link for the video files. It's much easier to find what you're looking for ;). But the 2011 WC Wiki links will be good for archive purposes as new players browsing the Wiki won't be familiar with the first link above. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by chessandgo on Feb 16th, 2011, 11:29am oh btw, should I record something (audio or...)? |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Feb 16th, 2011, 11:41am on 02/16/11 at 11:29:17, chessandgo wrote:
If Omar is there he'll record it and have an .avi file loaded onto the site within 30 minutes of the games finish 8) If Omar's not there then you may need to record it yourself and thank the sponsors (reading their names and thanking them should be enough if Omar's not there - but he usually is). |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by chessandgo on Feb 16th, 2011, 2:29pm Oh wow, I've finally listened to the commentary of my game with rabbits. I'm totally unintelligible during the postgame interview. I don't know whether it's due to the mic or the bad english accent or what, but I can't commentate a game if I sound like that, nobody is going to listen :) I'll do some teamspeak tests to check it out. As a side note, the move sounds are way too loud in this recording, much louder than the commentator's voices, it would be better I think to lower them a lot if possible for the future recordings, or even to mute them perhaps. EDIT: Just tested it a bit in TS. I had to reinstall the client before the start of the WC, but I forgot to check the settings. Now I have selected the noise reduction option, and it's much better. Strangely enough the french accent remains unchanged, but at least the sound appears to be much better :) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by chessandgo on Feb 16th, 2011, 2:31pm on 02/16/11 at 11:41:53, Adanac wrote:
Hmmm ok, thanks, we'll see how it plays out :) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Feb 16th, 2011, 2:48pm on 02/16/11 at 14:29:23, chessandgo wrote:
I listened to that interview during the live broadcast and it sounded fine to me. But the entire audio recording for that broadcast came out slightly garbled. All of Omar's recordings that I listened to in rounds 4-6 turned out great, so I wouldn't worry too much about the sound quality. I'm sure it will turn out great :) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by chessandgo on Feb 17th, 2011, 2:31am on 02/16/11 at 14:48:49, Adanac wrote:
Ok cool. Although with noise reduced on my side and a good quality recording, I don't have any excuse anymore :) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Feb 17th, 2011, 11:20am I should be able to record all the games this round. But it would be good to have a backup in case anything goes wrong. Preferably the backup should be someone not doing the commentary, but logged into TS. Capturing both audio and video would be good, but even just an audio capture is fine. I'll have to remember to turn off the sound in the game client. If the commentator keeps the sound in the game client on, it should be OK and won't come out too loud. Greg, some of the other videos in the ftp area, but not in the videos/2011wc area are the ones which did not turn out good. Some don't have the audio and others have a AV sync problem. I am putting only the good ones in the videos/2011wc area. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Feb 17th, 2011, 11:24am on 02/17/11 at 11:20:59, omar wrote:
That's great about the video files, but what about the audio files? Are you going to permanently store those, or throw them away because they have no video? |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Eltripas on Feb 17th, 2011, 8:30pm on 02/17/11 at 11:20:59, omar wrote:
I'll try. And to C&G, I was able to understand you as much as I understood Adanac or Nombril, you are more than qualified to give outstanding commentary. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by chessandgo on Feb 18th, 2011, 11:54am Err thanks for the kind words, if everybody could understand me that's good. Perhaps listening to the recording on my laptop which has a bad sound did make it sound worse than it was. In any case my microphone settings are now correct, so I'm gonna sound better :) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Feb 18th, 2011, 1:24pm on 02/17/11 at 11:24:31, Fritzlein wrote:
I was going to compress these audio files some more before saving them. I've copied them over now to the videos/2011wc area so they can be linked. Even though compressing them takes some time it does reduce the file size quite a bit, without much quality loss. I did it on the R3-woh-megamau file and it went from about 112 MB down to 14 MB. I'm using Audicity with LAME MP3 encoder set to export at a bit rate of 16. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Feb 18th, 2011, 3:38pm on 02/18/11 at 13:24:59, omar wrote:
Great, thanks. In the future I will compress to a bitrate of 16 myself before uploading. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Feb 18th, 2011, 3:42pm Bad news. My router just died. Verizon says there is no way for me to get connected except to wait for the new router they are mailing me. I will definitely not be able to give commentary on Tuks vs. hanzack, and chessandgo vs. Nombril would require the router ordered today to arrive tomorrow. Fat chance of that. The library has free Internet access, which is where I am to write this, but they sort of frown on downloading software onto their computer and then talking incessantly for an hour or two. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by megajester on Feb 19th, 2011, 3:17pm I have signed up for the chessandgo v. Nombril game. I promise to do my homework :) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Feb 19th, 2011, 9:47pm on 02/15/11 at 03:13:21, chessandgo wrote:
That was quite a leap, as it turned into a three-hour game. Thank you! I have listened to the first half, and it is fascinating to hear how we agree and disagree about various positions. I had wondered whether I was shooting myself in the foot by giving so much commentary, since you will know how I think but I won't know how you think if we face each other. Just from this one game, however, I feel amply repaid. And however it affects our game against each other that we are giving tips to each other, I am confident that our commentary is playing some part in the overall higher level of play in the 2011 World Championship compared to 2010. I feel the man-machine balance tipping more in humanity's favor this year. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Feb 19th, 2011, 9:47pm on 02/19/11 at 15:17:36, megajester wrote:
I will be able to join you, unless I oversleep. :) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by chessandgo on Feb 20th, 2011, 2:38am on 02/19/11 at 21:47:22, Fritzlein wrote:
Just wait for the 2nd half :) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Feb 20th, 2011, 7:45am on 02/19/11 at 21:47:22, Fritzlein wrote:
It's certainly helping my game a lot to have consecutive weeks with each of you commentating on one of my games 8) When I'm playing, you're both suggesting better moves than the ones I'm playing. And when I'm commentating, I find it difficult to think & commentate and I make lots of tactical oversights. I honestly have no idea how I'm keeping my rating so close to yours. :-/ |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Feb 20th, 2011, 9:00pm The games today saw a record number of people listening on the radio. The chessandgo vs Nombril game had 25 peak listeners; setting a record. Then the Hippo vs Fritzlein game had 28 peak listeners. I think it helped that I posted direct links to the game window on twitter, igGameCenter and LittleGolem. Tried facebook also, but it wasn't taking the post. We really should promote these WC games with live commentary more. They are great examples of high quality games full of drama and action. I'm going to setup a WC promotion committee and anyone is interested in being on it, send me a message from my profile or the contact page. I hope we can get to about 50 peak listeners for the last game of the WC. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Feb 20th, 2011, 10:09pm on 02/20/11 at 07:45:58, Adanac wrote:
Hee hee, your rating is getting further from mine every week. :) But seriously, I truly appreciate your kind words about my commentary. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Feb 21st, 2011, 11:36am on 02/20/11 at 21:00:18, omar wrote:
Thanks for doing this promotion, Omar. I think the live commentary is a very impressive and very marketable commodity. What board games apart from Arimaa have this? Chess, Go, shogi, and xiangqi are the only ones I know of. Can you find live commentary for Blokus, Pente, Gipf, Ingenious, Havannah, Cannon, Oust, and Hive? The way the Arimaa community treats Arimaa is a strong signal to the outside world that Arimaa is like the age-old classics. My one quibble with the promotion is that the tweet, "Arimaa world championship game with live commentary now in progress" implies that it is the world championship going on, and the winner of that game will become the World Champion of Arimaa. I'm afraid that it won't attract as many viewers next time, like the boy who cried "Wolf". Maybe the problem is that Twitter forces one to be overly succinct, but maybe there is room to insert "quarterfinal" when advertising Round 8 games. Yes, I know even that isn't quite accurate, but I think it will give people enough of an idea that they wouldn't then be disappointed to find out the exact truth. This just my allergy to over-hyping popping up again. :) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Feb 21st, 2011, 5:55pm on 02/21/11 at 11:36:06, Fritzlein wrote:
It was a spur of the moment decision to try posting some links to the games, so I wasn't quite ready with the wording. Will try to have better wording next time. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by rbarreira on Feb 22nd, 2011, 5:03am I saw someone saying in the chat room that the Hippo vs Fritzlein game had been uploaded, but I don't see it in the usual place. (2011 WC folder in the file manager) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Hippo on Feb 22nd, 2011, 5:35am on 02/22/11 at 05:03:39, rbarreira wrote:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/videos/2011wc/ |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by rbarreira on Feb 22nd, 2011, 5:45am on 02/22/11 at 05:35:40, Hippo wrote:
Oh, thanks! |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Feb 22nd, 2011, 7:48am on 02/22/11 at 05:03:39, rbarreira wrote:
I've caught up on the Wiki too. All the games with commentary should now have links to the appropriate file, though admittedly it's much easier to find the game you're looking for on the videos page ;). Also, I'd like to thank Tomas Lasmer (DrHades) for taking the initiative to research the past WC head-to-head results for the 8 finalits and posting them in the Wiki. You can find the table on the main page: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/2011_World_Championship |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Feb 22nd, 2011, 11:17am I can probably commentate hanzack vs. rabbits and Adanac vs. Tuks this week, if the times don't change by the final scheduling. (and if I have no equipment failures :P) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by chessandgo on Feb 22nd, 2011, 12:28pm I should be able to do Fritz-Nombril with the current scheduling. Co-commentators are welcome! :) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Feb 22nd, 2011, 1:47pm on 02/22/11 at 12:28:34, chessandgo wrote:
I'm gone the entire weekend, so I'll miss all the fun :'( No commentary or Wiki updates from me. I plan to observe the games directly from the video page next Monday so that I can watch them with commentary and without any spoilers as to who will win. :) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Feb 22nd, 2011, 7:59pm on 02/22/11 at 13:47:52, Adanac wrote:
uh... If you are gone all weekend, how did your game time get changed from Monday afternoon to Sunday morning? I probably won't be up early enough to commentate, so I have removed my name from the spreadsheet. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by omar on Feb 24th, 2011, 8:11am Karl, the Adanac-Tuks game has been moved back to the original time on Monday. Do you think you can commentate? We also need a commentator for Hippo-chessandgo game. Would anyone like to cover this one? Should be a pretty exciting game. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Feb 24th, 2011, 8:25am on 02/24/11 at 08:11:54, omar wrote:
Yes, I should be able to commentate on Monday. I have added my name back to the spreadsheet. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Feb 24th, 2011, 9:56am I like to mention the names of the commentators in the Wiki site but I'm having difficulty with this game. Can anyone identify the voice from 5:42 - 5:47 6:07 - 6:59 22:26 - 22:35 45:38 -46:17 most of the final 2 minutes and many other spots in this audio file? I apologize to whoever is speaking there, but I can't identify the voice. The accent sounds exactly like megajester but the voice is much different. http://arimaa.com/arimaa/videos/2011wc/R3-ginrunner-omar.mp3 |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by megajester on Feb 24th, 2011, 11:13am It is me. You're right it is a bit weird, maybe it's something to do with the compression. BTW I've put my name down for Hippo - chessandgo. Even if there's nobody else to commentate, I'm sure I'll get by with a little help from the chatroom hecklers :) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Feb 24th, 2011, 4:09pm on 02/24/11 at 11:13:23, megajester wrote:
For the first time in my life, I've missed a flight and there weren't any reasonable alternative flight times. So, after thinking that I would miss all the round 2 Arimaa action, here I am stuck in Toronto with no plans. So if you want a co-commentator, I can offer to help with the Hippo-chessandgo game. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by megajester on Feb 25th, 2011, 12:48am on 02/24/11 at 16:09:47, Adanac wrote:
Ouch!!! I once missed a bus and had to pay a private taxi £100 to make it for a flight back to Turkey. One of the most stressful days of my life... As for the commentary, I hope that like with Fritzlein last week I'll be able to buy some time each move for you to crystallize your thoughts for us. If you have any suggestions for me feel free. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by chessandgo on Feb 25th, 2011, 5:09am I love the "Ruling party shake-up spreading to Arimaa" email, good job :) Also I notice the video is available in many languages but not french. I'm not sure whether I'm the man for the job, but at least I could help with the written translation (and give it a try if now one else wants to voice it). I'm going to look for the proper thread in the forum, that should be a good starting point :) EDIT: oh, I just realize the German and Czech versions are subtitled. I suppose it's an option for french too. The Turkish version kicks ass :) And besides the slight background noise, the spanish version rocks too (and I can understand this one, yay ^^). I just found the BGG contest thread: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/forum/cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=talk;action=display;num=1273008173;start=50#50 Is there another thread where translation has been discussed? REEDIT: gah, going global. I'm missing so many threads these days :( REREEDIT: ok, I see everything is actually almost done, good job :) I'm the type of guy who's always 3 months late. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Eltripas on Feb 26th, 2011, 12:16am on 02/25/11 at 05:09:29, chessandgo wrote:
Yeah, sorry about that, I made that recording with the microphone of my cheap video camera, I need to buy decent microphone. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Feb 26th, 2011, 1:35am on 02/25/11 at 05:09:29, chessandgo wrote:
I'm clueless too. Why is the German version only subtitled? I could read the voiceover in a pinch, but surely we have some native speaker whose accent wouldn't sound as silly as mine... |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by chessandgo on Feb 26th, 2011, 2:35am on 02/26/11 at 00:16:56, Eltripas wrote:
No it's ok, we hear you fine! Btw, is that a Quake I avatar you have here? :) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Feb 28th, 2011, 9:25pm For Round 9, it wouldn't be reasonable for me to commentate Tuks-Hippo, because my game might still be going on, and because I expect to be totally fried even if it is over. So my only option is the early (for me) chessandgo-Adanac game. Hopefully being groggy from lack of sleep is less critical for commentary than it is for playing. :) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by megajester on Mar 1st, 2011, 12:51am This week I've got a 2-day convention to prepare for so I'm afraid I probably won't be available for any of the games to do commentary. :( FYI |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by chessandgo on Mar 1st, 2011, 5:43am I won't be available for the Sunday games either. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Mar 1st, 2011, 6:51am on 02/28/11 at 21:25:01, Fritzlein wrote:
This is a case where the 15 minute delay definitely works to your advantage as a commentator. Maybe Toby can volunteer to start the commentary and then you can take over when he goes to sleep? :) I wasn't planning to do any commentary this weekend but I'll re-consider now that everyone else has to back out. I'll try to make sure my Sunday afternoon is free. Will there be a separate channel for each game? |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Arimabuff on Mar 1st, 2011, 6:45pm I'd volunteer to do a commentary but I don't know what games are still available. Can someone enlighten me? |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Mar 1st, 2011, 7:27pm on 03/01/11 at 18:45:19, Arimabuff wrote:
Are you looking for a solo game or do you want a co-commentator? Tuks - Hippo has no commentator yet, so that's open if you want it. The game would start Sunday 20:00 your local time. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Arimabuff on Mar 2nd, 2011, 12:47pm on 03/01/11 at 19:27:22, Adanac wrote:
I am sorry, I should have been more precise. I'd like to be co-commentator for a start and see how it goes from there. I'd be a solo commentator in a pinch but don't expect too much of me in that case. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Adanac on Mar 2nd, 2011, 3:22pm on 03/02/11 at 12:47:06, Arimabuff wrote:
Do you want to co-commentate the Fritzlein - rabbits game with me? |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Nombril on Mar 2nd, 2011, 9:02pm There is a high probability I can provide commentary for the Tuks/Hippo game. (Fritz, I can probably be up in time to provide co-commentary for the Saturday game, if you are interested.) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Mar 2nd, 2011, 10:57pm on 03/02/11 at 21:02:01, Nombril wrote:
Sure, I can use a co-commentator, although the first priority is of course having a main commentator for every game, so if you only have time/energy on the weekend for one, please let it be Tuks vs. Hippo. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Arimabuff on Mar 3rd, 2011, 2:30am on 03/02/11 at 15:22:52, Adanac wrote:
Count me in. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Mar 7th, 2011, 8:38pm Hmmm, Tuks vs. chessandgo is scheduled for Sunday morning. I think I could deal with the early time, but I am afraid that commentating might tire me out for my own game Sunday noon. Adanac, what would you think of a pact for both of us to commentate Tuks vs. chessandgo, so that there would be no fatigue advantage either way for our game later? |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Arimabuff on Mar 8th, 2011, 2:07am I volunteer to commentate on the game Fritz. vs Adanac. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by chessandgo on Mar 8th, 2011, 5:32am on 03/07/11 at 20:38:06, Fritzlein wrote:
Commentary or not, Greg will be up before the scheduled time, no worry :) Actually later times are equally fine for me, my whole Sunday afternoon had top priority, I suspect the algorithm might pick the earliest common convenient time. If Tuks is fine as well with later slots, maybe we should postpone the game by a few hours to make it more commentator- and spectator-friendly? |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Mar 8th, 2011, 9:43am on 03/08/11 at 05:32:54, chessandgo wrote:
For me it isn't a big deal. One hour later is better, but two hours later would leave me less time to recover between games, and three hours later might make it overlap with my game. On the other hand, for people on the west coast of the U.S., the currently scheduled time is 5:00 in the morning, so they might appreciate three hours later. I suppose that our maximum audience potential is after the west coast of the U.S. is awake and before east Europe has gone to bed. To meet this objective, we might move Tuks vs. chessandgo three hours later and Fritzlein vs. Adanac two hours later. The latter is fine with me. But that also is terrible for Asia; at least the present early game might not be too late on Sunday for Asian viewers, whereas moving it later would put it into the middle of the night for them. By chance I am also free all Saturday this week, so it would improve things for me if either game were moved 24 hours earlier. Then there would be no issue of exhaustion from both playing and commentating on Sunday. Also the community might benefit from having two days with an event instead of one day with two events. Or is this a benefit? Maybe the largest crowd is achieved with a double event where folks just drop by for as much of it as they can. The currently scheduled times are at least fair to the players; perhaps it is best not to tamper with them? |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by chessandgo on Mar 8th, 2011, 10:39am on 03/08/11 at 09:43:28, Fritzlein wrote:
Well, whatever you guys prefer. My selected top slots were the 2pm-6pm CET times on Saturday and Sunday, ie slots 62-66 and 86-90, I'm fine with whatever seems best for yourself, Tuks and Adanac within this time frame. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Tuks on Mar 8th, 2011, 11:26am i can do an hour or two later, if its more convenient |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Arimabuff on Mar 8th, 2011, 2:17pm If you make any changes, be sure to make them soon, because people may no appreciate having to wait one more hour than expected and some of them could leave before the game is even started. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by SpeedRazor on Mar 11th, 2011, 11:16am As an West-Coaster, I'm missing those games for nothing! A problem though, is at 5:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, the very last Melody Amber tournament's second round starts with one of my favorite players, Hikaru Nakamura, finally invited. Although I'm turning off ICCs audio to listen to those two great Arimaa 'battles', I'll be watching both, and this might be a conflict for fans of both beautiful games: Chess and Arimaa. Just saying... At the risk of posting inappropriately, I thought that that French-speaking Commentator, Arimabuff, did an exemplary job last weekend. Thank you, Arimaabuff - I'd do it if I could! So ... when is that super-high rated Harry Potter guy going to commentate? |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Mar 11th, 2011, 6:36pm I am trying to figure out what effect daylight savings time is going to have on the games scheduled for Sunday. If I remember correctly, the games are scheduled in UTC, which does not move. That is to say, my game is presently showing as 12:00 local time, but when we all move our clocks forward Sunday morning, it will suddenly display as 13:00 local time. The game time will not have moved, only our local clocks will have moved. If anyone thinks they know what will happen, please confirm or contradict. I'm willing to get up early to commentate Tuks vs. chessandgo, but if I am losing an hour more than I thought I would, I will just sleep in instead. :( |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by RonWeasley on Mar 11th, 2011, 6:42pm on 03/11/11 at 11:16:38, SpeedRazor wrote:
You mean me? I've done a few games, but it's hard for me to commit to an entire game. I think the other commentators do better than me. And I'm not very funny in real-time, so everybody loses. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Arimabuff on Mar 11th, 2011, 7:43pm on 03/11/11 at 18:36:53, Fritzlein wrote:
I think it's safe to assume that the time of the game is absolute as daylight savings time changes from country to country, in Europe for instance, it's still two weeks away. IOW, if you spring forward then so will the time of your game. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Mar 14th, 2011, 9:14pm I can commentate only the first bit of Adanac vs. chessandgo Saturday morning before I leave for frisbee. 10:30 is a hard stop, so that's an hour and fifteen minutes counting the delay. I'll sign myself up as co-commentator. I hope that we can get both an anchor and a main commentator as well, so that there will still be two commentators after I leave. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by mistre on Mar 14th, 2011, 10:07pm Who was the main commentator for the Fritzlein-Adanac match in the last round of the WC? Whoever it was, it was very entertaining and the best commentator I have heard so far. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Eltripas on Mar 15th, 2011, 12:58am on 03/14/11 at 22:07:50, mistre wrote:
You will need to be a little more specific about what you understand for "main commentator" in this one. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Mar 15th, 2011, 1:35am Arimabuff was listed as the main commentator and megajester was listed as the anchor. However, megajester talked more during the bit of the commentary that I listened to, the last bit, after I had already lost. Megajester has a British accent; Arimabuff a French accent. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Arimabuff on Mar 15th, 2011, 2:08am on 03/14/11 at 21:14:52, Fritzlein wrote:
I volunteer as co-commentator/part commentator on this one, IE I can either co commentate with you or take over after you're gone, depending on who else will be available or I can serve as anchor. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by megajester on Mar 15th, 2011, 3:52am Thanks mistre, I'll take that as a complement for both of us! We made a good team there. I did the smooth talking, Arimaabuff provided the meaningful analysis :) I hope the three of us will be able to put on an even better show in the final, because all three of us will have plenty of time to collect our thoughts. Also Arimabuff, did you notice the link under Announcements in the gameroom to the Google spreadsheet where you can register as a commentator? |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Arimabuff on Mar 15th, 2011, 2:59pm on 03/15/11 at 03:52:57, megajester wrote:
Thanks for the tip, I am registered now. |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Fritzlein on Mar 15th, 2011, 4:29pm on 03/15/11 at 03:52:57, megajester wrote:
The spreadsheet there is a little confusing, as it already has a sheet for Round 12, even though we are just on Round 11. You two have signed up for Adanac to have an upset victory this week, creating the need for one more game. ;) Anyway, I'm looking forward to being part of the trio on Saturday, at least for as long as I can stay; thanks for joining me, guys! |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by megajester on Mar 15th, 2011, 5:05pm on 03/15/11 at 16:29:11, Fritzlein wrote:
Duhhhh! :D OK I've signed up to join you for the chessandgo Adanac game. Which I thought I was signing up for earlier. |
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Title: Joke :) Post by Hippo on Mar 15th, 2011, 5:36pm on 03/15/11 at 16:29:11, Fritzlein wrote:
Oh sorry for the little joke ... I have prepared sheets 9,10,11,12 in advance. And I have filled both 11 and 12 when their only possible values were known :). So if chessandgo wins it would be over earlier and I will delete that sheet :). |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by chessandgo on Mar 16th, 2011, 5:03am Well, we all know that Greg is going to win it in the end since that "two world champs" thing, I thought you guys did only care for the final game, next week :) |
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Title: Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting Post by Hippo on Mar 16th, 2011, 10:21am If Adanac wins, there would be fun one more week. If chessandgo wins, the prize for won games would be higher ... :). Both have pros and cons. I hope we all enjoy it. |
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