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Title: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Jun 8th, 2011, 9:09am Look Here for the current game(s) (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/currentgames.cgi?id=16063). Here are the PB wikis for both sides. Mob discussion (http://arimaamob.pbworks.com) Gang discussion (http://arimaagang.pbworks.com) Click the one you are joining, and click the 'Request Access' button on the right side. Enter your email address, and in the 'Optional Message' textbox put your forum name, so that the coordinator could check validity and ask the other coordinator if they are already on the other team. Edit (by Admin): Here is the link to watch the game (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/opengamewin.cgi?gameid=238792&role=v). Team member lists here(not guaranteed to be accurate): gang (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/forum/cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=events;action=display;num=1307542193;start=75#82) mob (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/forum/cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=events;action=display;num=1307542193;start=60#74) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 8th, 2011, 1:51pm I would be happy to participate, but being team coordinator is extra work that I'm not volunteering to do. If RonWeasley would be willing to coordinate for the USA team that would be fabulous, but we would still need a coordinator for the rest of the world (ROW) team. It doesn't have to be the top player, but one of the judgment calls the coordinator has to make is which moves need extended discussion and which moves are suitable for a snap vote with minimal discussion, which should probably be decided by someone ~2000 WHR. I note that megajester's Arimaa World League poll was not about postal games at all, only about relative preference for live head-to-head games vs. live collaborative games. AWL is for live play. Also AWL has four teams, and given how many people are required for a decent Mob (see below) there can only be two teams. Therefore this is the only poll in town for folks interested in another postal Mob game. My opinion is that the time control (one week per move) was perfect, and that Condorcet voting worked fine, and that use of computers to assist analysis made the games more fun and interesting. In fact the only thing that "went wrong" is that The One got beat up both games and didn't feel like playing any more. So the major topic of debate as far as I am concerned is whether there is enough interest to fix that with two competing teams. The size of the team is important. The discussion was getting a bit thin towards the end of the second Mob game, which put some strain on the remaining active participants. Both Mob games saw people join in after the game started, but more drifted away than came late, so overall participation waned. To have a good shot at a full, fun game, I think we need about fifteen voters per team at the start, i.e. about thirty total. Maybe if we get twenty declared participants in this thread, we can get the rest by advertising the game as it is about to begin. Anything less than twenty responses in thread, and I would prefer to wait until the Arimaa community has grown a bit more. So far the declared interest stands at two: Nazgand and Fritzlein. :) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by UruramTururam on Jun 8th, 2011, 2:17pm I can play in the Gang but I'm too weak for its coordinator. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Jun 8th, 2011, 6:05pm I agree that 20 would be a good number to start with. Now all that's left to do is point people to this thread and collect volunteers. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Swynndla on Jun 8th, 2011, 7:20pm I don't know how these are run ...
So this format has happened before (ie when The One got beat up both times), but as an aside question, has live collaborative games (that megajester was polling) happened before? (ie with one team on one teamspeak channel and the other team on another teamspeak one?) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Jun 8th, 2011, 9:18pm The analysis is public on the Arimaa forums eg. http://arimaa.com/arimaa/forum/cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=2007onevsmob Moves are suggested and refuted until they are happy with their moves or need to move. Then they vote. I believe the best part of collaboration is refuting moves rather than suggesting or voting; if you refute all the bad moves, then the moves left are chosen as a matter of taste. If people are busy for a week, yes, they could take time off. Even if a group has many weak voters, it should be fine, because the weakly suggested moves would be refuted before they become a candidate. They may not vote for the best move in the candidates, but all of the candidates would have no weaknesses noticed by bots, analysis tools, or the stronger players on the team. I hope this clears up all your questions. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 8th, 2011, 10:07pm on 06/08/11 at 19:20:26, Swynndla wrote:
This was the central question when we started the experiment. With simple majority voting, would the Mob be stronger or weaker than its strongest player? (The coordinator gets to vote, and gets to call the timing of the vote, but does not get to overrule the majority.) It is impossible to tell a priori whether this will produce strong play, but the experience from both Mob games is that the Mob produced clearly stronger moves than the strongest Mob member alone would have done. As Nazgand explains, the magic is in the discussion, not in the voting. Quote:
Yes I think it happened once during the Arimaa Festival with small teams. I didn't participate. My experience from chess, however, is that discussion time is too short, so that the group can't be stronger than its strongest member, and indeed if it functions truly as a group with voting, then it will be weaker than its strongest member. Again, the magic is in the discussion, not the vote, and two minutes per move is very short for meaningful discussion. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Janzert on Jun 8th, 2011, 11:37pm on 06/08/11 at 19:20:26, Swynndla wrote:
Yes, there were 2 such games during the Arimaa festival last fall. One played at a time convenient for European players and the other better timed for North American players (found here (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=158671) and here (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=158709)). They were played at 90s per move controls and because of the need to fit into the festival schedule a short total game length. Because of that both games ended with the game limit and were determined by score. Through mechanisms unknown to me* I ended up as captain for one of the teams in the American game. There were 3 players on each team for that game. Basically I found at 90 seconds there was really just barely time for the team to get only one or two move ideas on the table and somewhat vetted that it wasn't a blunder by the other players. At the same time though my team with players ranked around 1900, 1700 and 1400 did manage to get up by a camel against the other team with players at roughly 2100, 2000 and 1200. So we either got lucky or did manage to outperform the expected outcome from just looking at the top rating on each team. Mostly I think the teams at that time control still manage to avoid some of the blunders that any single player would have made on their own. Also if you look at the average time per move none of the teams managed to stay within the 90s per move. So my take away was that 90s per move is the absolute minimum for a collaborative game to have a chance and it doesn't feel like you have time for any real discussion during the game. But increasing the time control is probably going to make it difficult to get a whole team of people able to stay around for the entire game. Maybe allowing people to rotate in and out of a team, as they are available, would work? Also even with this minimum of collaboration it still probably resulted in play better than the best player on the team. Janzert * Literally; I actually had no plans to even participate in the game until I saw my name listed as a captain a short time before the event. :) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Jun 9th, 2011, 12:01am So... Swynndla, Janzert... are either of you interested in participating? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Swynndla on Jun 9th, 2011, 12:40am Thanks all for clearing up my questions. I'm convinced - count me in! (although some weeks I may not be able to contribute). Edit: oh and I was wondering, is it ok to view the other team's analysis, or is this considered bad manners? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Jun 9th, 2011, 1:35am In TheOne vs TheMob, neither side was allowed to view the other's analysis. It is conceivable that we could play that way, but I suspect most people would rather not until the game is over; they may wish to relish the surprises. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 9th, 2011, 1:54am on 06/09/11 at 00:40:23, Swynndla wrote:
As The One I never looked at the discussion of The Mob. I was supposing that with two Mobs it would be against the rules, although entirely unenforceable, for either team to look at the discussion of the other. Just to make the temptation slightly less, I would suggest each team suspend discussion as soon as it votes, rather than trying to get a jump on the next move's discussion. That way at least cheaters would be seeing one ply less depth. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by ginrunner on Jun 9th, 2011, 3:05am im in if this happens |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Jun 9th, 2011, 3:16am on 06/09/11 at 03:05:30, ginrunner wrote:
Welcome aboard, sir! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by mistre on Jun 9th, 2011, 8:07am Nazgand, There was a thread in the AWL World League where we were discussing postal matches and there were a few others who expressed interest in a Mob vs Gang format. Right now the postal mixer is in full swing so some of us are busy with that. As for me, I am in. An August 1st start date would be good for me. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by megajester on Jun 9th, 2011, 8:14am In principle I would also suggest that making it Europa/Ring of Fire v Rockies/Atlantics would be as good a way as any other to split the teams, while taking an opportunity to encourge AWL team cohesion. Two birds with one stone as they say. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by rbarreira on Jun 9th, 2011, 8:45am on 06/09/11 at 01:54:43, Fritzlein wrote:
What about some sort of password protected system where only the members of each team get the password? I think pbwiki (http://pbworks.com/content/personal+features?utm_campaign=nav-tracking&utm_source=Top%20navigation) may do the trick. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Jun 9th, 2011, 11:30am megajester, rbarreira - are you in? About how the teams are split, that sounds good, though ultimately the teams will be decided by the participants. As for the collaboration, I'd assumed that TheMob and TheGang would both get there own forum and forumgroup. Ideally we will release the analysis of move n-2 on move n to give the non-participants something to read. pbwiki might be an easier way to do it though; we could simply post the analysis we wish to release in a thread as we go. I've not done this before, thus I am interested in hearing the ideas of previous participants. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 9th, 2011, 11:40am on 06/09/11 at 08:45:32, rbarreira wrote:
To cheat with password-protected forums requires only a sockpuppet account that joins the opposing team. But perhaps having to jump through that one hoop would deter someone who would otherwise peek in a moment of weakness. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by rbarreira on Jun 9th, 2011, 1:19pm on 06/09/11 at 11:40:10, Fritzlein wrote:
Not only it is an extra hoop, but it also makes it harder for cheaters to go undetected... Nazgand, yes I'm in! Though I don't think it's a good idea to release the analysis up to move n-2. That leaves room for getting some valuable information regarding strategies and, even worse, the possibility that the analyzed position gets repeated again. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by aaaa on Jun 9th, 2011, 2:16pm It looks like it should be possible for this YaBB forum to have boards be restricted to specific member groups. I certainly wouldn't like to give up my use of the most-recent-posts function. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jun 9th, 2011, 2:41pm I would like participate, but I don't want to be a full time coordinator. I would prefer to have gang account and mob account such that the coordinator could be easily changed any time during the game. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by ChrisB on Jun 9th, 2011, 4:00pm I'm also interested in participating. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Jun 9th, 2011, 5:58pm Sounds good, aaaa. Are you in? So Hippo, you idea is to have a HeadGangster and HeadMobster account, and when the coordinator decides to let someone take over? That would work, and I can see the advantages in the long run. People reading the records would never be confused about who is the Head. I would note that a devious, cunning Head may vote twice, or try to use their normal account to enter the other team(espionage ahoy!). This would probably be noticed though. As for the general 'sockpuppet' account problem, I have thought of a solution: add more hoops. We could require that participants win against the [looks at personal game record] |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Swynndla on Jun 9th, 2011, 8:34pm on 06/09/11 at 17:58:55, Nazgand wrote:
Gosh - I feel quite differently about it. I think that if the analysis was left completely open to that public, spectators would be able to read the analysis of both sides "live" (as live as a postal can be). This would make it enjoyable for people (spectator sports always are), and fun is what it's all about. Even non-regular people might watch the game as it progresses. Having an unenforced agreement that it's considered bad manners to look at the the opposition's analysis would add to the already friendly arimaa community spirit. I like things to default to being non-hidden in general, as it adds to the feeling of open & honest. I know it's natural for us "computer geeks" to think of all sorts of ways to put security in place, and then all sorts of ways to break that security (we like doing this), but that is another "game" as far as I'm concerned. And this is a friendly battle isn't it? ... no prize except gloating rights? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Jun 9th, 2011, 9:43pm Good point Swynndla. I do tend to think very security-centrically. One of my favorite past-times was acting as "Security Consultant" to an MMORPG, TBA(no longer available). I had a great time using partially coded features such as magic, duping items, getting billions of gold, attacking players(normally they need to punch you before you are able), stealing passwords, increasing my combat stats ATK, STR, DEF by 2^32/3 (overflow error in checker function), defeating the superboss dragon about 20 times in a minute, posting in the hidden admin forum, creating my own forums... And yes I will edit this as I remember more to brag about ;D Back to your point, openness would be a nice way to go. Any security we put in place could easily be defeated by a determined foe unless the security didn't allow normal people in. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Sconibulus on Jun 9th, 2011, 11:00pm I can definitely see myself participating in this game, although I definitely think there should be at least token security. Two moves is probably insufficient, as in the mob postal it seemed that lines extending out three or more turns, while they weren't omnipresent, also weren't terribly uncommon, which is exacerbated by positional repeats. Now, some of you might say "Oh, we can trust eachother." I think we probably can't. Even assuming no malicious intent, the very fact that they'd exist on this forum without being hidden means they'd show up in searches or recent posts. Personally, I don't think anyone's going to try very hard to look at the opponent's data, but it should definitely require both intent and at least twenty-thirty seconds of effort. If you want unaffiliated spectators to observe the discussion, maybe if move discussion is made public 5 turns after the move in question is played? That covers us for pretty much everything short of forced endgames or a very deep branch that's had repetitions. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 9th, 2011, 11:42pm Oh, now that you mention it, during the Mob game I did once look at the Mob's discussion accidentally, as the result of a search. It was discussion of the opening, and the game had progressed far beyond, so it had no effect, but it would be nice to prevent at least inadvertent peeking at opposing moves. I wonder whether such password protection as this forum has would automatically filter search results too. I understand the desire to let spectators in on the fun while it is happening, but isn't it enough to let everyone who cares to sign up for one team or the other? Indeed, now that I think about it, it might be a disincentive for some to participate if only non-participants get an omniscient view. I wouldn't cry if nobody was allowed to see both sides of the discussion. Spectators, just like the players themselves, can choose up sides. Folks that can't be bothered to sign up can check the moves but have to wait for the game to be over to see what is being said. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Jun 10th, 2011, 12:39am That is a good point, Fritzlein. We should not leave incentive to not participate. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by RonWeasley on Jun 10th, 2011, 7:31pm TheMob coordinator is less about being a good player yourself and more about keeping track of the discussion and prompting the mobsters to state their final comments. Mobsters need enough time to respond to each other, especially in active positions. The coordinator then needs to sense when discussion has finished and begin the vote. There needs to be enough time for mobsters to vote, often a day and a half at least. I worried a lot in the second game about getting enough discussion and getting a vote done on time. I worried about being a pest. I said to myself that I hoped somebody else would be coordinator next game. If you find you're playing around on the arimaa site every day, you just might be a coordinator. Given that somebody else coordinates, I would contribute to one of the teams, unevenly perhaps, as long as there are no giant spiders on it. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Eltripas on Jun 10th, 2011, 8:07pm I may participate but only if I'm in the mob, the gang is dumb. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 10th, 2011, 11:38pm Twelve in already. Not too shabby! on 06/10/11 at 20:07:36, Eltripas wrote:
Do you mean that you don't like the team name, or that you refuse to be lumped in with all the Europeans? I'm hoping the latter, because normally folks don't like to be lumped in with the USA. ;) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jun 11th, 2011, 3:24am on 06/10/11 at 19:31:24, RonWeasley wrote:
I don't mind sharing coordination in a team, but I cannot predict my availability 400 days in advance so there could be some weeks I would not be available at all. This is why I prefer existence of team account from which the game would be plyed. (Coordinator can change password for his coordination, but is able to publish the password for period of unavailibility to let someone else declare coordinator and continue). Coordinator has to maintain "game tree" suggested by all (mob/gang)sters and let the (mob/gang)sters vote. I would recomend coordinator to log by his account in role of (mob/gang)ster and with coordinator account in the other role. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by lightvector on Jun 11th, 2011, 10:29am If this gets started, I would like to join in. Hopefully I'll have time. Also Sharp wants to join. ;D Although bot analysis may be less useful until the board opens up. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 11th, 2011, 12:49pm on 06/11/11 at 03:24:45, Hippo wrote:
It will be very interesting to see whether clojure's analysis tool revolutionizes this aspect of Mob discussion. The tree was very helpful to discussion, but it was a major pain to compile, and reasonably tedious to use as well. If clojure's tool works as well as I hope, then there is no need for the coordinator to maintain the tree; everyone in the Mob will be able to download the tree file, add/edit lines with pointing and clicking, and then post the enhanced tree back to the discussion. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 11th, 2011, 12:53pm on 06/11/11 at 10:29:55, lightvector wrote:
If this turns into USA vs. ROW, it will be fun to have sharp and OpFor on our team, given that marwin and clueless are in ROW. Actually I'm surprised to see that declared USA interest appears to be running slightly ahead of declared ROW interest. Surrender peacefully, ROW: we have you surrounded! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by mdk on Jun 11th, 2011, 1:10pm I'll only be able to contribute significantly during my school breaks (including this summer) but I'm in. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by arimaa_master on Jun 11th, 2011, 3:10pm Count me in :) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by mistre on Jun 11th, 2011, 8:13pm on 06/11/11 at 12:49:27, Fritzlein wrote:
If this ends up being the case, I will volunteer my services as the coordinator of the Mob. I will need a crash course on the other aspects of wizardry from the head wizard at Hogwarts however. Go Mob! Go USA! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by The_Jeh on Jun 11th, 2011, 8:43pm on 06/11/11 at 13:10:08, mdk wrote:
Same here. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by robinz on Jun 12th, 2011, 7:07am I'd be happy to be in (for the Rest of the World, if we choose that format), although I can't guarantee how much input I'll give. I'm weak enough compared to most of the other players that most likely any intelligent thoughts I have about the position will have already been pointed out by others :) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jun 12th, 2011, 8:05am on 06/12/11 at 07:07:11, robinz wrote:
In team thinking questions "Why do you think that is good" are important, and lowly rated players are in better position to ask :) so don't hesitate to do so ... |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by 722caasi on Jun 12th, 2011, 1:54pm I'll play, I don't care for which side. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by geez on Jun 12th, 2011, 5:03pm Sounds like great fun, I'm in. :) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Eltripas on Jun 12th, 2011, 5:58pm on 06/10/11 at 23:38:41, Fritzlein wrote:
I don't care about the nationality of my teammates, but gang sounds like the spanish word "ganga" which means bargain. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by RonWeasley on Jun 13th, 2011, 8:07am on 06/11/11 at 20:13:00, mistre wrote:
The mechanical aspects of coordinator are easy to explain. Coordinator account, voting site, moderator status in forum. I'll do this when we start. Even during the match, I can answer generic questions from either moderator. I will try to share my ways of prompting final comments. A useful spell like, "Let's make our final comments by Wednesday evening and plan to begin voting Thursday." This spell usually works even if you don't carry a wand. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by chessandgo on Jun 13th, 2011, 1:18pm Nice idea! I fear won't have much time to devote to arimaa in the next few months, but I'll try to chime in as often as possible :) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nombril on Jun 13th, 2011, 10:17pm I'm in...but probably need finish a few postal mixer games before I will be able to contribute as much discussion as I did at the end of the last Mob game. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 14th, 2011, 12:01am If it turns out that the current version of the forum is unable to provide us with venues restricted by groups (and Omar is unwilling or unable to upgrade the version), which option would people prefer: Having the discussion here with only a gentlemen's agreement not to look at the other team's discussion, or try to find a solution on another domain with some security? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by chessandgo on Jun 14th, 2011, 3:51am gentlemen's agreement... of course :) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Swynndla on Jun 14th, 2011, 5:37am (As I've already stated) I like the gentle-person's agreement. It's not that I think we can trust each other, it's just that I think if someone really wants to look at the other side, then that's up to them, even if I wouldn't do it myself. Likewise, if someone from the opposition was spying on my team, then it wouldn't worry me, as that's up to them (and who's to say I'm right anyway?). It's hard to explain what I mean. In Hogwarts, Slytherin weren't banned, but were an equal quarter. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by megajester on Jun 14th, 2011, 5:53am The Mob vs. The One relied on the trustworthiness of only one person, The One, who was always a respected and mature member of the Arimaa community. However in this case it would rely on the trustworthiness of all members of both teams. And only one of those people needs temptation to get the better of them to spoil the party. A certain cautionary tale from the AWL springs to mind. (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/forum/cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=2010awl;action=display;num=1277067962) By the way, I would also like to take part, although perhaps in practice I will only be peripherally involved. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by arimaa_master on Jun 14th, 2011, 6:27am Gentleman's agreement - especially because I want to play the board not the opponent - thus finding the best move we will be able to come up apart from the fact if somebody spying us or not. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jun 14th, 2011, 8:41am on 06/14/11 at 06:27:01, arimaa_master wrote:
But even when we playing board, not the opponent, I would prefer to chose only one team to play for ;). |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by RonWeasley on Jun 14th, 2011, 4:29pm Gentlemuggle's agreement should work. Imagine the reaction of one's own team members if your post begins, "I saw in the other team's analysis that..." You'd be flamed faster than a flatulent phoenix. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by rbarreira on Jun 14th, 2011, 4:31pm on 06/14/11 at 16:29:03, RonWeasley wrote:
But it can just as easily begin with "they're probably expecting us to... " or "what if they replied ... to that?" ? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 14th, 2011, 5:16pm on 06/14/11 at 16:31:07, rbarreira wrote:
Indeed, the purpose of cheating in the context would less likely be a desire to win the game, and more likely a desire to appear smart. "Your move suggestion might look good superficially, but it can be refuted by X, which I analyzed extensively." Anyone who is going to transgress community norms by reading the other team's discussion is unlikely to freely admit that their "extensive analysis" consisted of peeking. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by UruramTururam on Jun 14th, 2011, 5:28pm "Trust them and audit them." (Stalin) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Swynndla on Jun 14th, 2011, 6:00pm on 06/14/11 at 17:16:04, Fritzlein wrote:
My point is "so what?" .. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, rather it's what I was trying to say previously, summed up in two words. :) So what if someone fancies the idea of appearing smarter than they are (or maybe more that they appear that they understand how the other side is thinking)? It's only a game. :) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jun 15th, 2011, 1:47am I expect phase of "move generation" without explanation why. And cheater "copying moves from the other thread would be hardly detected in this phase. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by megajester on Jun 15th, 2011, 2:27am So we're all agreed that a "gentleman's agreement" is basically a rule that's begging to be broken? I don't like the idea of a "who cares, let 'em cheat" approach any more than I'm happy about diving in football (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_%28football%29). You can't stop it, and so any footballer who refuses to do it is at a disadvantage. But it leaves a bad taste in the mouth, because winning becomes as much about skill at cheating as skill at the game that everybody actually signed up for. If we've come to that, why not just have "The Mob vs. Itself" in one thread where everybody discusses each move together? Much less tedious than flicking between two threads... |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by ginrunner on Jun 15th, 2011, 3:12am Sorry I have not read the whole thread so what I am about to say may have already been said and discredited. Make 2 sections in the forum (the mob and the gang) each with an application thread that is viewable by all and a single moderator that has the ability to allow people to view every thread in the section. potential members apply and are added to the list of people that can view the whole section. this should be very easy on the forum side, it completely prevents cheating unless the team leader/moderator is stupid and lets someone that is on the other team view, and the captains know exactly who is on their team. the downside would be spectators not on a team are not able to view the move list and so the solution becomes making the thread viewable after a certain number of moves (sort of like the delay during the world championships). give the team captains/moderators the ability to control when a thread is viewable just incase a move tree has been posted and they dont want a thread viewed even after a certain number of moves. now we can have spectators that can read and learn why certain moves were made, cheating is impossible, and if you would like there can still be an honor code of not reading the other team's threads until the match is over. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by chessandgo on Jun 15th, 2011, 6:46am We've got to compare the cumulative unhappiness which would be generated by the extra cheating that could occur if we don't work to prevent it with the cumulative happiness that we would all gain by having more time to dedicate to whatever we want (by deciding not to work towards preventing any cheating). Personally, it's very easy, as someone cheating basically wouldn't make me unhappy, while the extra time would not be wasted on my postal games. I suspect that collectively we would also gain more with the extra free time. In short I subscribe to what Swynndla says. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by chessandgo on Jun 15th, 2011, 6:46am on 06/15/11 at 02:27:36, megajester wrote:
Yellow card! :) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by megajester on Jun 15th, 2011, 7:41am Erm... a system to prevent cheating actually seems quite easy: on 06/09/11 at 08:45:32, rbarreira wrote:
So by your equation: "cumulative unhappiness which would be generated by the extra cheating that could occur if we don't work to prevent it" = a lot for some of us "the cumulative happiness that we would all gain by having more time to dedicate to whatever we want (by deciding not to work towards preventing any cheating)" = zero, because the amount of time/effort/etc needed is exactly the same either way hmmm... tough decision! :D |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by chessandgo on Jun 15th, 2011, 7:44am Ah, if we have a solution without drawbacks, then sure, let's do it! :) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 16th, 2011, 11:23pm on 06/15/11 at 07:44:26, chessandgo wrote:
I'm afraid every solution will have drawbacks. I talked to Omar and he confirms that we can't use this version of YaBB for access control. This version has a concept of "member group", and of restricting categories based on member groups, but there is no way to assign group membership! Even the admin account can't say who is in what group. Apparently that feature got added later. Furthermore, our version is so far out of date that it would be a major pain to upgrade, and Omar is not willing to do that right now. Therefore, if we are to do any access control at all, it will have at least one disadvantage, namely the disadvantage of being off-site. That means creating accounts somewhere else, with separate logins, and it means that the record of the discussion will be off-site as well. Are there other disadvantages besides this? Could someone who is familiar with pbwiki break down exactly how it would work to hold the discussion over there? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Jun 17th, 2011, 12:19am Any particular reason upgrading would be a pain? Would the game system become incompatible? A simple on-site alternative to upgrading would be to add a value to the user table default 0, 1 for TheMob, 2 for TheGang. Then extend the existing JS client's planning abilities to allow submitting moves for others in the group to see, and refute, and possibly comment on. This may even be preferable to using the forums. Voting could even be incorporated into the JS client. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 17th, 2011, 12:34am on 06/17/11 at 00:19:23, Nazgand wrote:
I don't know; I will let Omar answer that. His time is the bottleneck for many events, so the more we can do without him, the better. Manually updating the user table might work with the current software version, but even so Omar is the only one who could set it up at the start and add members to the teams as the game progresses, so it doesn't solve the fundamental problem of not being able to organize this game on our own. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Jun 17th, 2011, 2:38am That could be solved by giving the Heads the ability to add/remove members. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 17th, 2011, 1:16pm on 06/17/11 at 02:38:56, Nazgand wrote:
And this either requires giving additional people admin access to the server, which I would be hesitant to do if I were in Omar's shoes, or it requires even more custom coding on Omar's part to make an add/remove function and an access-controlled interface for it, i.e. extra work from Omar up front to save himself work later. In fact, I see now that I misread your previous suggestion; I thought you were suggesting a hack to the forum but you were actually suggesting a hack to the client that enables client-based discussion. IHMO that would be a ridiculously large project. But there is no point in us arguing over over how easy or difficult this would be. There are some cases where public debate is irrelevant; this is a time for leadership. Nazgand, you can contact Omar directly here: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/contact/ . You can explain to him exactly what he has to do to enable us to use this forum with access control, how his role in this will be really quite trivial, and how he needs to invest this small amount of time to enable the event you are agitating for. After you have persuaded him, we can get the game started. Or, since you are convinced the changes to the client are easy, you can make those changes yourself. Omar will give you the client code to work with, and even set you up for testing on a test game room server. He is very eager to offload coding work, so he has gone to some lengths to enable code contributions. When you have implemented your client-based discussion solution, we can start the game. Or you can help explore off-site forum alternatives such as pbwiki or other things you can think of, and as concretely as possible lay out the pros and cons of that solution compared to having discussions in this forum that everyone can view but agrees not to. More details about our alternatives would help the community come to a consensus on what is preferable. I have my own opinions on how I think we should run the game, but I'm going to hold them in reserve in favor of this message with my opinions on the process that needs to take place, and the kind of leadership it will take to make the game happen. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jun 17th, 2011, 1:59pm I am surprised there were not comments on my suggestion to have special accounts for mob player and gang player. Does it mean nobody thought about it or you consider it to be stupid and politely ignore it? ... Are there two leaders to be available for the whole game? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 17th, 2011, 2:20pm on 06/17/11 at 13:59:02, Hippo wrote:
I didn't comment because I thought it was a given. :) The accounts have to be created simply for the purpose of starting a game on the server, unless the game would be disguised as mistre vs. Hippo. For the first Mob game, when RonWeasley was away for a couple of moves, he gave the password to me so that I could make the moves until he got back. I don't know how it happened in the second Mob game, since I was The One. Did Ron never need a substitute over the year plus that the game lasted? Anyway, with two mobs, I would guess both would function this way. Would the existence of these special accounts help us in some way about controlling access to the team discussions? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jun 18th, 2011, 8:55am Oh so I was reinventing wheel. ... I remembered Ron to play for mob and he was actually only using mob accounnt for it. :). ... I am not sure how much important is to distinguish moderator role from team memmber role in the discussion. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Jun 18th, 2011, 3:05pm After looking at clojures's tool (http://personal.inet.fi/koti/egaga/arimaa-viewer/arimaa.html), I Think Fritzlein is correct that it would be the perfect tool; I especially like the ability to comment position and move. After looking around, I found something about upgrading YaBB 1.x. Apparently, you need to upgrade to 2.3.1 before upgrading to anything higher. If upgrading fails, I think PBWiki would be an excellent place to post the exported analysis tree. It would be off site in that case, but I suppose we could release both sides' analysis trees afterward. However, in the case of the wiki, I suspect having an account for both teams' wikis would be easy. I'm in a mood to get things done. I made a TheGang account, challenged TheMob, gave it to Hippo. I also made PB wikis for both sides.Mob discussion (http://arimaamob.pbworks.com) Gang discussion (http://arimaagang.pbworks.com) Click the one you are joining, and click the 'Request Access' button on the right side. Enter your email address, and in the 'Optional Message' textbox put your forum name, so that the coordinator could check validity and ask the other coordinator if they are already on the other team. mistre, ask Ron for the TheMob account. When the teams are ready, accept the challenge. With USA vs ROW, USA has the advantage in numbers: 14 to 8. Should we do something else? TheMob 1) ChrisB 2) Fritzlein 3) ginrunner 4) lightvector w/bot sharp 5) mdk 6) mistre 7) Nazgand 8) Nombril 9) Ronweasley 10) Sconibulus 11) Swynndla 12) The_Jeh 13) novacat 14) FyzixST 15) Knak |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 21st, 2011, 2:56pm Sorry I missed your latest message Nazgand. If you post a message on the 18th and then edit it on the 20th, the edited message doesn't show up as unread, so I didn't see there was new information. Code:
The above links show as broken when you click on them. Instead try: Code:
How are mistre and Hippo feeling about getting the game started under these conditions? How long do we need to get the teams signed up on pbworks? How will the coordinators be able to verify that the requests to join the teams are legitimate? (e.g. suppose someone who is not me asks to sign up with the e-mail fritzjuhnke@gmail.com, which is not my e-mail but looks plausible.) How awkward is it going to be to discuss over there instead of here, and how many people will be deterred from participating for that reason? on 06/18/11 at 15:05:15, Nazgand wrote:
I think it is fine to divide the teams that way, allowing people to switch before the game starts if they want to. (It's not like we can verify what country anyone is from anyway.) Adanac told me he would probably join the World Team once the game got started, and I expect several Europeans will probably pitch in as well. Another useful step would be to persuade Omar to put an announcement of the game, with a game start date, in the announcements section of the game room, and to link the respective discussion pages from the Community section in the upper right of the game room. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Sconibulus on Jun 21st, 2011, 3:14pm I won't really mind using a different site in principle, although if the mechanics are unwieldy that might be problematic. (I've never actually used pbworks before, so I'm not sure how true that might be.) As a note, those links are broken, they're trying to go to a subset of the forum it seems, the fixed links follow Mob: http://arimaamob.pbworks.com Gang: http://arimaagang.pbworks.com Edited to add: I just made an access request to the mob site, that much at least seems very straightforward. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheGang on Jun 21st, 2011, 5:17pm So the account for gangsters is created, Hippo is currently using the gangsters account. Gangsters ... create your account on pboworks.com and request access to arimaagang workspace. Currently there is only one gangster (Hippo) registered except the gangsters account itself. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jun 21st, 2011, 5:26pm on 06/21/11 at 17:17:09, TheGang wrote:
P.S.: Send me a (private) message here in the forum to confirm connection to gangsters. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 21st, 2011, 6:17pm on 06/21/11 at 17:26:38, Hippo wrote:
Ah, that's a good way to associate pbwiki accounts with Arimaa usernames. (Note that e-mail addresses have to be shared with the coordinator anyway for the Condorcet voting site we were using before.) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Eltripas on Jun 21st, 2011, 11:43pm Because of the lack of ROW members I've decided to change teams. I also sent a message to the mob administrator in pbworks requesting access (at that moment I wasn't aware of the number of members), just ignore it, I'll will send one to the gang administrator. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by UruramTururam on Jun 22nd, 2011, 1:12am OK, I've registered for the Gang. By the way when are we to start the game? I could well have some troubles with active participation until mid July, then I should be fully online. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jun 22nd, 2011, 1:52am on 06/21/11 at 17:26:38, Hippo wrote:
Please include your e-mail adress used on pbwiki in the confirmation message. [to be updated] Registered gangsters: 1) Hippo 2) megajester 3) UruramTururam 4) chessandgo 5) geez 6) Eltripas 7) Manuel 8) arimaa_master 9) Oystein 10) Jimbo 11) rbarreira (with bot support) 12) Simon 13) judofyr 14) Heyckie 15) knarl 16) Migi 17) cvic 18) tharkun 19) 20) foggy 21) Brendan_M [/to be updated] |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by megajester on Jun 22nd, 2011, 2:06am I'm +1 for the Gang. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by ginrunner on Jun 22nd, 2011, 2:07am mob-in-it-up |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by mistre on Jun 22nd, 2011, 5:53am Hello fellow mobsters! I have the following confirmed so far: myself (mistre) Nazgand Fritzlein ginrunner Sconibulus Lightvector To join, please visit arimaamob.pbworks.com (http://arimaamob.pbworks.com) and click the 'Request Access' button on the right side. Enter your email address, and in the 'Optional Message' textbox put your forum name, so that I can match your email to your arimaa account. Come on in! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by chessandgo on Jun 22nd, 2011, 6:18am So we are the gang. I think Quebecois use the word "gang" quite liberally, often meaning something like "band of friends". I suppose the same goes in English. In French though the word only stands for a gang of criminals, it feels super weird when someone says "Great, I'm a gangster now" :) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by megajester on Jun 22nd, 2011, 6:23am ReSpeK dA ARiiMa GaNgStaZ |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Jun 22nd, 2011, 8:10am As for when we start, I think as soon as TheGang has 6 members. Then, knowing which color we are, we could start squabbling about which setup is best. Which leads me to wonder: has anyone done an analysis on the game db to see which setup leads to the highest percent wins? If so, I would be interested. Obviously, low level bots bias the results against their setups. Edit: Scratch that; we should start the game now and let people join while setup is decided. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 22nd, 2011, 9:04am How will the colors be decided? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by UruramTururam on Jun 22nd, 2011, 9:20am OK, so we are to decide who goes first using a fair way. I propose the following: Today is June 22nd. Let us take the last digit before the decimal point of tomorrow (June 23rd) morning London Gold Fix in USD - it is a public data we all can see. Today morning fix is 1546.00 (you can check it here: http://www.goldfixing.com/test2.htm ), so the last digit is 6. For the tomorrow morning last digit if it's even than the Mob is Gold if it's odd than the Gang is Gold. Could it be like that? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Jun 22nd, 2011, 9:38am Well, seeing as TheMob is rated 1500 and TheGang 1400, I suggest we figure out which of Gold and Silver has the advantage, and give it to TheGang... :P But really, colors don't matter; noone's figured out how to exploit a color. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 22nd, 2011, 9:38am on 06/22/11 at 08:10:48, Nazgand wrote:
I stand by my comments at the beginning of the thread; six people is way too few for a Mob discussion. Even ten is thin; I was only happy to start with ten on a team on the hope that more would join in later when the game is announced/linked in the game room. Also, it wouldn't hurt to have some practice posts of text, not to mention practice use of the analysis tool, before the clock starts ticking down. I just went to the Mob page (Move 1) and it was completely blank. My first post didn't show up, and I couldn't figure out why until I saw that I had entered my text as the edit comment. :) It's not rocket science, but I expect it will take a bit to get our bearings. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 22nd, 2011, 9:42am on 06/22/11 at 09:20:00, UruramTururam wrote:
First we should flip a coin to decide whether we use the London Gold Fix or the London Silver Fix. ::) Just kidding; that sounds like a very fair and reasonable way to flip a coin in public. It's not like I'm going to buy/sell a bunch of gold in order to set the price and make sure the Mob gets to play Gold. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 22nd, 2011, 10:20am on 06/22/11 at 06:18:52, chessandgo wrote:
I don't think there are any positive connotations to "mob", and in current urban slang it is far more hip to be a gangster (gangsta) than a mobster, so you probably have the cooler name of the two. ;-) My fondness for belonging to the mob comes from its association with the adjective "unruly", i.e. a mob is almost automatically an "unruly mob", except in connection with organized crime. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by mistre on Jun 22nd, 2011, 10:50am on 06/22/11 at 09:38:42, Fritzlein wrote:
I'm with Fritz on this one. As the admin, I need time to acclimate myself to the new site. Plus, I still need the email and password to the mob account from RonWeasley and instructions on how to use the voting tool. Let's at least get the original members who expressed interest signed up at PBworks (among other things) before we even think about starting the game. Also, I will ask Omar if he can start publicizing the event on the main page to drum up interest. My last reason for delaying a bit is that I am currently on vacation and I don't feel comfortable putting us on the clock at this point. (not to mention I have several postal games going on). How about we start this in conjunction with the AWL on July 18th? I know there are some of you ready to go now, but I don't want to rush things. The earliest I would be comfortable starting would be July 11th. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jun 22nd, 2011, 11:37am I also hope Ron explains us the voting tool usage. I hope I would be available expect one week in August. Yes, it's true that I would have small amount of time for thinking during the openning as the mixer consumes a lot of my time. So I welcome delay start to 11 July (or a bit later). [edit] Done. [/edit] |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 22nd, 2011, 2:24pm on 06/22/11 at 10:50:55, mistre wrote:
I'm on vacation July 1-17, so a July 18 start works for me too. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 23rd, 2011, 10:29am on 06/22/11 at 09:20:00, UruramTururam wrote:
The June 23 morning London Gold Fix was $1541.50. The last digit before the decimal is 1, so it is odd, so The Gang is Gold. In one sense that's too bad, because the The Mob was starting to have an interesting discussion on how to set up as Gold. On the other hand, it's good, because now The Mob will have the advantage of playing Silver. ;) Has the discussion started yet on The Gang side? If not, let me mention that in The Mob we are mostly discussing using the "comment" feature rather than the Wiki per se. The comments are signed and kept in order. Perhaps when we have some distilled wisdom, like a FAQ or an analysis tree, that can be enshrined in the Wiki proper. I quite enjoy the automatic e-mail notifications that PBWiki sends out for modifications. I don't think it is going to take me long to get used to having discussions over there. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jun 23rd, 2011, 12:28pm The gang didn't start discussing the initial setup yet. (As we expected to play silver :)) So if it's given we are gold ... we could start discussing. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 23rd, 2011, 1:26pm The Gang needs to get on the stick. Over at The Mob we are figuring out how to use clojure's tool to pass an analysis tree via the Wiki page. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work properly for variations of the setup. I'm sure there will be other small bugs that pop up as well. Perhaps once the game starts and he sees that his tool is in use, clojure could be persuaded to return to active development. It is a truly fabulous gift he has given to the community already. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Swynndla on Jun 23rd, 2011, 10:57pm on 06/21/11 at 14:56:25, Fritzlein wrote:
I have applied and been accepted as a mobster. I like to mix things up, and also I'm looking forward to benefiting from Fritzlein's informative and logical verbosity. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jun 23rd, 2011, 11:55pm Swynndla, I am glad you recognize the innate superiority of the United States of America even before the game begins. As for the rest of the schmucks out there who haven't yet seen the light, well, we will just have to convince them over the board. ;D |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by mistre on Jun 24th, 2011, 8:31am I have renamed the Move 1 page in the PbWorks site to pre-game discussion. I have created a new page called Move 1, which we can use once we actually start the game. Hopefully that will help newcomers to the page not get confused. :D I have also added a separate page to discuss the use of the Analysis Tool. I can add other pages by request. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Jimbo on Jun 24th, 2011, 8:07pm Just posting here so when I send my application to the gang the admin knows i'm a real person/player. i'm looking forward to the same extent I'm bad at Arimaa. That is, I'm looking forward to this very, very much. :) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jun 25th, 2011, 6:25am on 06/23/11 at 13:26:06, Fritzlein wrote:
Yes, I have experimented with that, it works fine after full setup :). We will be ok without the tool on the setup move analysis. (I should inform the mob, that we have analysed the game only to depth of 25 turns ... we plan to use the tool for deaper search later.) BTW: we are 9 already |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by chessandgo on Jun 25th, 2011, 3:23pm on 06/24/11 at 20:07:56, Jimbo wrote:
Welcome to da gang :) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jun 25th, 2011, 4:17pm on 06/24/11 at 20:07:56, Jimbo wrote:
Look at the top of the page ... between elephants ... |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Jun 25th, 2011, 10:32pm on 06/25/11 at 06:25:16, Hippo wrote:
Are you sure that's not 25 steps?! Edit: either way, that's pretty impressive, especially considering you're not knowing our setup. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jun 26th, 2011, 6:56am on 06/25/11 at 22:32:38, Nazgand wrote:
May be just 16 steps, but it's better to let opponents confused :). |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Eltripas on Jun 26th, 2011, 11:03am on 06/26/11 at 06:56:42, Hippo wrote:
Yes, but that is considering optimal play, if they don't play the best possible moves, we are in trouble ;) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by rbarreira on Jun 30th, 2011, 9:31am So when does the game really start? July 18? This should be fun! Also, good to see that there is at least one bot author on each team, especially if an even endgame is eventually reached. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jun 30th, 2011, 10:21am Yes I will welcome bot_braierius to the team :). |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheGang on Jul 16th, 2011, 5:36am Surprisingly there is no accept button on the pending There is only href ... challenge.javascript:cancelInvite('6169','1308548853') |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheGang on Jul 18th, 2011, 1:37pm Oh this is because TheGang was inviting :). So mistre/TheMob. Will you accept the invite? (That invitation was not personally by Hippo so sorry that I was confused.) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheMob on Jul 18th, 2011, 3:38pm I accepted and then realized it was as Gold! We are supposed to be Silver. Now what? By the way, we currently have 11 registered on PBworks. How many does TheGang have? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jul 18th, 2011, 5:13pm I have realised that as well so I have resigned and invited with switched colors. We are 11 as well. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Jul 18th, 2011, 7:41pm It might be a good idea to put a link to the game in the 'Current Game' folder and here. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jul 19th, 2011, 12:19am on 07/18/11 at 19:41:36, Nazgand wrote:
Sure, after TheMob accepts :) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by UruramTururam on Jul 19th, 2011, 8:59am on 06/30/11 at 10:21:47, Hippo wrote:
But how should it vote? :D |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheGang on Jul 19th, 2011, 9:03am on 07/19/11 at 08:59:18, UruramTururam wrote:
It will only support its master in his decisions (and us as well). It's time will come roughly in January 2014 when the bot's strength in the endings would be important. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Eltripas on Jul 19th, 2011, 11:07am The gang Gender: Female The mob Gender: Female Uhm, what? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by megajester on Jul 19th, 2011, 11:12am on 07/19/11 at 11:07:32, Eltripas wrote:
GIRL FIIIGHT!!! ;D |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheMob on Jul 19th, 2011, 11:39am Challenge accepted. Game on! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheGang on Jul 19th, 2011, 12:57pm Our link is http://arimaa.com/arimaa/java/ys/ms4/v5/js_sit.cgi?sid=xxxxx&grid=3&rand=xxxx What should I do to allow visiting the page but not playing? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jul 19th, 2011, 12:59pm I'm back from vacation and ready to rumble! When does the Gang's clock start ticking? Have folks figured out how to do the Condorcet voting? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jul 19th, 2011, 1:00pm on 07/19/11 at 12:57:22, TheGang wrote:
These are not good links to post, as they allow one to sit down at the board, chat (as you can see by my test chat), and presumably even make moves! [edit] Oh, I see The Gang has already moved and now it is The Mob's turn. Was that a real move, or was it done via the posted link without the Gang's approval? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by mistre on Jul 19th, 2011, 1:09pm Fritzlein, Please post the correct link, I am not sure how to get just a viewer link. Once we have the correct link, let's get it to Omar so he can link it to the mob game page and post a note on the main page to drum up interest. RonWeasley gave me instructions on using the voting tool and it looks pretty easy to use. Have we figured out the analysis tool yet? Now is the time to start discussing our first move over at the other site. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheGang on Jul 19th, 2011, 1:09pm It was real move, yes we have learned voting meanwhile ... . |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jul 19th, 2011, 1:17pm on 07/19/11 at 13:00:48, Fritzlein wrote:
Seems the link provided by mistre was OK. I was not able to chat or move using it. Yes, I was testing at the Hippo account and was scared by the *. I have started another comp to be sure problem is with the link and not the station. You were faster :). |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jul 19th, 2011, 1:57pm on 07/19/11 at 13:09:19, mistre wrote:
Hmmm, my links seem to have the same form as the one you posted, although perhaps they can't cause a problem since I am not logged in as one of the players. We should ask Omar about this. In the mean time, it should be safe to get there from the Mob's list of current games: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/currentgames.cgi?id=6169 Quote:
My understanding is that the analysis tool doesn't work properly for the setup, but hopefully after we suffer through discussing the setup in text we will be able to begin sharing graphical analysis. Quote:
Discussion started! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jul 19th, 2011, 4:25pm Good method ... and from the other point of view :) http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/currentgames.cgi?id=16063 |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Swynndla on Jul 20th, 2011, 11:29pm on 07/18/11 at 17:13:40, Hippo wrote:
Oh and TheGang is rated 1400 while TheMob is rated 1500 - another promising sign! TheMob is silver and so has the advantage of setting up to counter gold's setup ... with these three promising signs, we can't lose! ;) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by megajester on Jul 21st, 2011, 12:32am on 07/20/11 at 23:29:13, Swynndla wrote:
dats wot u fink 8) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jul 21st, 2011, 11:55pm Nazgand, the game room link "Mob Game" in the upper right now points to the beginning of this discussion thread. I suggest you edit the first post to include (right at the top) everything a new player needs to get started. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheMob on Jul 26th, 2011, 9:06am TheMob has made its Move1 selection. TheGang is on the clock! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by rbarreira on Jul 28th, 2011, 9:05am Should there be a backup coordinator in each team, in case the main coordinator has some unexpected issue which prevents them from passing on their passwords to someone else in the team? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jul 28th, 2011, 10:18am on 07/28/11 at 09:05:14, rbarreira wrote:
Don't worry; Hippo hasn't abandoned you yet. He just fainted dead away when he saw the unstoppable power of the Mob's setup. He'll come to in a few days to help with your vain attempt to salvage something from the wreckage of the Gang's position. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jul 28th, 2011, 10:55am on 07/28/11 at 10:18:35, Fritzlein wrote:
Don't worry :) coordinating the Gang is more important than the postal mixer games :). We just waited for Jean's analysys of all games of U2 :). But now, we are well prepared to continue ... . Seems you will be eager to lose quickly to be allowed to read the gang discussion:). |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Sconibulus on Jul 29th, 2011, 9:43am Bah, you realize of course that your situation is hopeless. We have the power of Mob Mentality on our side! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by RonWeasley on Jul 29th, 2011, 8:19pm Don't make TheMob angry. You won't like us when we're angry. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheGang on Jul 30th, 2011, 4:06am There is something wrong with the time controll. Seems 21days is maximal reserve so we didn't gained by playing quickly ... :( |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by rbarreira on Jul 30th, 2011, 4:55am on 07/30/11 at 04:06:29, TheGang wrote:
I warned about that in the gang wiki. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jul 30th, 2011, 4:06pm on 07/30/11 at 04:06:29, TheGang wrote:
When the game was The One vs. The Mob, we decided that having no maximum on reserve would unfairly advantage The One, who would be in a much better position to move quickly and gain reserve. That's probably the reason the time control is what it is. In any case, I don't particularly relish the possibility of either side getting three months in reserve and then using it. (Of course, agreeing not to use extra reserve is the same as having a maximum reserve.) It's already a pain to have to wait for a week between moves, although it is a necessary evil since that is how much time it takes to discuss. If I had to wait three weeks between moves, potentially for several moves in a row while a large reserve was being drained, it would negatively impact my enjoyment of the game. In short, I disagree that there is something wrong with the time control. I like it just fine. On the other hand, I feel kind of bad that you blundered so early due to a mistaken impression that it would gain you reserve. I'm sorry about that. Given how you have wrecked your position already, I would support giving The Gang a takeback and several more days to come up with a move that at least puts up a fight. Certainly The Mob is going to win either way, but it will be more fun if it isn't too easy. ;) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by rbarreira on Jul 30th, 2011, 7:05pm on 07/30/11 at 16:06:22, Fritzlein wrote:
Actually we made a deal to pretend we moved too early by mistake. The reality is, of course, we have already calculated that our chosen 2g is a forced win. We won't say in how many moves in order not to spoil your fun. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by ginrunner on Jul 30th, 2011, 10:34pm I predict the mob in 38. What is my prize? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Aug 1st, 2011, 2:31pm I voted for this setup (http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1052653), but my fellow Mobsters thought we needed to be a bit more subtle... |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheMob on Aug 3rd, 2011, 9:45pm TheMob selects e->e5 h->g6. TheGang is on the clock. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Aug 4th, 2011, 6:09am on 08/03/11 at 21:45:38, TheMob wrote:
That was fast :). Morever no gagngster predicted it. Seems our long term calculation does not work as expected :o. May be 38 was too much? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Aug 4th, 2011, 4:33pm on 08/04/11 at 06:09:21, Hippo wrote:
Really? I mean to disconcert you, but I thought both teams had an active double agent. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Aug 4th, 2011, 4:35pm on 08/04/11 at 16:33:00, Nazgand wrote:
Are the captains checking with each other every time someone tries to join the PBWiki? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Aug 4th, 2011, 4:40pm on 08/04/11 at 16:35:09, Fritzlein wrote:
Well, suppose I decide to switch teams, because I see a really good move I need to vote for as a Gangster. When I sign up and vote C<M>E>V, would anyone be suspicious? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Aug 4th, 2011, 4:53pm on 08/04/11 at 16:40:49, Nazgand wrote:
The point is that someone is supposed to be suspicious in the "when I sign up" phase, long before you vote. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Aug 4th, 2011, 5:01pm on 08/04/11 at 16:40:49, Nazgand wrote:
Wow, how it is possible that you know this move is among our three proposals? But so far this move has only 3 official supporters and 5 gangsters are strongly against. We are trying hard to discuss pros and cons of each proposal so even our less experienced gangsters could compare the arguments. We will see if this move wins. OK, I decided to change passwords on all accounts created by you. This will make spying much more difficult for you. :P |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Aug 4th, 2011, 5:23pm on 08/04/11 at 16:53:19, Fritzlein wrote:
I always update the list of gangster on 6th page of this thread. We are still 12 (only Simon joined after the game started) ... compared to 2? new mobsters. gang (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/forum/cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=events;action=display;num=1307542193;start=75#82) mob (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/forum/cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=events;action=display;num=1307542193;start=60#74) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Aug 4th, 2011, 5:30pm I have written out the pros and single con for the 5 less experienced gangsters who are strongly against. Pros: Winning after such a move would give ultimate bragging rights in the Arimaaverse. Would be more challenging, and thus, fun. Would confuse enemy; this strategy has not before been seen by them. If it turns out that the pieces were switched and painted over, this would be a good first step to winning. Con: Would temporarily sacrifice material for the ultimate goal of ultimate bragging rights. Edit: I thought you had changed the passwords before; I specifically said to do so; I know my self well enough to know I can't be trusted. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by rbarreira on Aug 4th, 2011, 5:40pm Eltripas is in both lists, I guess some updates are needed in the lists. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Aug 4th, 2011, 5:42pm on 08/04/11 at 17:30:21, Nazgand wrote:
Yes, but I have expected you to start spying much more later. Never mind, I am adding argument that this move was proposed by mobster and this will definitely convince unexperienced players ... ... could you put the above links to the first post in the thread. (At least the link to list of gangsters ... and create a link to list of mobsters to be maintained up to date). [edit]Thanks[/edit] |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Aug 4th, 2011, 5:44pm on 08/04/11 at 17:40:37, rbarreira wrote:
Yes, Ivan declared (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/forum/cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=events;action=display;num=1307542193;start=75#80) himself to be official double agent. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by rbarreira on Aug 4th, 2011, 5:44pm Quote:
Well in that case Hippo, make sure the wiki admin account is not using his email address :P |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Aug 4th, 2011, 5:49pm on 08/04/11 at 17:44:02, Hippo wrote:
Perhaps, but if he is a double agent8), and he did not warn you about our move, AND we know your movelist(as you admitted), is he our double agent or your double agent? ;D |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Aug 4th, 2011, 5:58pm on 08/04/11 at 17:44:35, rbarreira wrote:
He made a back door ... he formulated the question for resetting the arimaagang email account. But it would be difficult to use it and not to be detected. I am not planning to close that door for the case I will prematurely died ;). |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Aug 4th, 2011, 6:45pm on 08/04/11 at 17:58:54, Hippo wrote:
Thanks for reminding me... I doubt I'll use it though(Google asks many questions for password recovery). I don't remember what the security question is, but I remember that the answer is easy to guess for Arimaa fans. Thinking of ways to tease you and thus distract you from the game has given me a few neat ideas. Imagine a script is in the footer of Pbworks(visible on every page). Said script runs on page load. It first deletes the visible parts of the footer and sends session cookies to a certain server, with info about viewed page(e.g when it was last edited). The server decides if it wants a copy of the page, and the script obliges. Suppose said script then checks to see if it is in the settings page that has the option to edit the footer html, and deletes page components. SUPPOSE it then deletes the HTML that it is in, thus removing all traces of the script. Nervous yet? 8) Obviously a problem arises when someone has a whomping big monitor: They will see a flicker at the bottom of the page as the footer is deleted when the page loads. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Eltripas on Aug 4th, 2011, 10:18pm on 08/04/11 at 17:40:37, rbarreira wrote:
http://ranger.gamebanana.com/img/ico/sprays/fyi.jpg But seriously, I'm not the double-agent. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by mistre on Aug 5th, 2011, 9:42am on 08/04/11 at 17:40:37, rbarreira wrote:
To update TheMob's list - we have added novacat and swynndla to the team. 722caasi never did sign up at PBwiki. And just today, we have a brand new member - FyzixST. That brings us to 14 with 1 bot. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Aug 5th, 2011, 9:47am I'm sorry for implicating you Eltripas, but the best way to distract the opponent from what should be the obvious goal is to start conspiracy theories. I'm surprised that a 'Conspiracy Theories' page hasn't yet been made at Arimaagang Pbwiki. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Aug 5th, 2011, 11:32am on 08/05/11 at 09:42:31, mistre wrote:
Seems there is too close connection between novacat and The_Jeh in the mobster's team :). |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Aug 5th, 2011, 12:13pm on 08/05/11 at 11:32:36, Hippo wrote:
Suddenly it all becomes clear: there was a 5-5 tie in voting on the Mob's setup. Those two supposedly "hadn't voted" and broke the tie in a mysterious manner. There is more to this than meets the eye. I notice that novacat The_Jeh is an anagram from Jean hatch vote. I consider this conclusive evidence that chessandgo has infiltrated the Mob. We'll know for sure next time there is a tie and suddenly new members Jove and He_can_tath show up to swing the result. (tath = pile on the manure. truly.) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by mistre on Aug 5th, 2011, 3:11pm on 08/05/11 at 12:13:20, Fritzlein wrote:
LOL, how in the world did you come up with that! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by judofyr on Aug 7th, 2011, 2:21am This looks fun; I've signed up as gangster 8) Although I'm actually a double agent reporting to Silver's A7 rabbit, so hush! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by The_Jeh on Aug 7th, 2011, 3:11pm on 08/05/11 at 12:13:20, Fritzlein wrote:
And chessandgo is an anagram for "Changed SoS." What does that say about past championships? I wasn't a strong advocate of rewarding tardy voters with the honor of breaking a tie, and I won't be next time. Rather, choose randomly between them. But mistre's decision is reasonable and well-intentioned, and no harm no foul. I suspect you're being tongue-in-cheek, but it's a valid point you raise anyway. Both my time for and skills in Arimaa decrease daily, so you may not see much of me. But I'll still drop by when I can. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Aug 7th, 2011, 5:38pm on 08/07/11 at 15:11:20, The_Jeh wrote:
Yes, I was just being silly; mistre is doing a great job coordinating. Furthermore, in hindsight I think the setup we voted for is actually stronger than the setup that topped my ballot. Our mind-ninja move paralyzed The Gang's decision-making to such an extent that their elephant didn't even feel safe coming onto our half of the board, unlike in the large majority of openings for Gold. First move advantage, anyone? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Aug 8th, 2011, 10:55am on 08/07/11 at 17:38:51, Fritzlein wrote:
Yes we are thinking hard about not entering your half of the board for the rest of the game. Except may be ... with a rabbit? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by ginrunner on Aug 8th, 2011, 12:19pm on 08/08/11 at 10:55:32, Hippo wrote:
That's fine you don't enter our half of the board except with rabbits and we won't enter your half. I am sure the elimination rule doesn't apply to this game. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Aug 8th, 2011, 1:48pm on 08/07/11 at 17:38:51, Fritzlein wrote:
Right on! It'll be 25 days before the think of a response. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by rbarreira on Aug 8th, 2011, 2:03pm on 08/08/11 at 13:48:22, Nazgand wrote:
Yes, we're planning to move in 25 days only. Pay no attention to the game until about a month from now. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Aug 9th, 2011, 6:14am on 08/08/11 at 14:03:11, rbarreira wrote:
My point was that you'd only think of a move once you've lost on time. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by mistre on Aug 9th, 2011, 9:22am I had a new request to join TheMob - kselker@gmail.com Does anyone know the Arimaa name for this member? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Aug 9th, 2011, 2:34pm on 08/09/11 at 09:22:37, mistre wrote:
Using the player search, I couldn't find any plausibly matching usernames or real names containing "ksel" or "elke". Did you e-mail kselker directly asking him to introduce himself here in the forum? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by mistre on Aug 10th, 2011, 10:46pm He contacted me and I got him signed up. It was Knak. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by mistre on Aug 10th, 2011, 10:49pm TheGang is now eating into their reserve time on Move 3! Is this a sign of dissension among the ranks? Or did our 2s throw them so out of whack they don't know what to do? Mob! Mob! Mob! Mob! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Aug 10th, 2011, 11:49pm Someone saw the flicker of the footer being deleted, and they are wondering what to do about it. ;) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Swynndla on Aug 10th, 2011, 11:56pm on 08/10/11 at 22:49:17, mistre wrote:
My theory is that c&g said he'd be out of town for a little while, but before the mob's move he left instructions if mob does A then do B, and if C then do D, etc. on 08/04/11 at 06:09:21, Hippo wrote:
Whoops! I guess the gang will have to wait until c&g comes back! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Aug 11th, 2011, 12:10am on 08/10/11 at 23:56:07, Swynndla wrote:
The fact is I was tired and I have overslept. Our decision was ready long time before ... . Now we have better motivation to play in time :). So it's TheMob's turn. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Aug 11th, 2011, 1:09am Swynndla, you hit the bulls-eye with that guess. That move was obviously a shabby attempt to prove you wrong. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Aug 11th, 2011, 9:44am on 08/10/11 at 22:46:55, mistre wrote:
Welcome to the Mob, knak! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by chessandgo on Aug 12th, 2011, 2:38pm Hey hey, I *am* out of town actually :) So I couldn't vote, but hey, Dog to c3 on move 3, isn't that cute? I like the Gang, cause we have style mate! Speaking of Gangs and Mobs, I'm in London right now, as the night falls over Clapham. Hmmm ... |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Aug 12th, 2011, 3:21pm I am going to London on Sunday ... being here till Wednsday ... I will have some time for sightseeing at Tuesday ... So top gangsters could meet in London ... |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Swynndla on Aug 12th, 2011, 5:15pm on 08/12/11 at 14:38:29, chessandgo wrote:
I just knew it! I pieced together the evidence: on 06/13/11 at 13:18:10, chessandgo wrote:
on 07/28/11 at 10:55:11, Hippo wrote:
on 08/10/11 at 22:49:17, mistre wrote:
QED! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Heyckie on Aug 13th, 2011, 4:37pm I'll join the Gang! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Aug 13th, 2011, 5:49pm on 08/13/11 at 16:37:57, Heyckie wrote:
Well, send me your e-mail in private message and ask the access on the PBWorks ... and you will be in |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Aug 13th, 2011, 5:51pm on 08/12/11 at 14:38:29, chessandgo wrote:
I was on b6 with my horse on 2g (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/java/ys/ms4/v5/js_sit.cgi?sid=5809891273&grid=3&rand=4933732) in my last postal ... is not that even cuter :) ? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by chessandgo on Aug 14th, 2011, 6:35am Indeed :) I used to advance my Horse 4 times too on the first move when my opponent let me, but I had to stop doing it (a heartbreaker, obviously). Oh, you're coming to London today? It would be nice if we could meet! I'm leaving tomorrow afternoon, but if you're up for a meeting this evening or tomorrow morning, let me know (I'm PMing you my phone number just in case - I'm super low on battery though ^^) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Aug 14th, 2011, 12:23pm I have not received the PM, but I have sent one ... I am on terrible wi-fi connection seeking for a McDonald around. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by chessandgo on Aug 15th, 2011, 4:45am oh sorry, I sent you an email to the address you're using for the Gang-vs-Mob game. And i couldn't check this forum. Well, too bad, enjoy your stay in London! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Aug 16th, 2011, 1:56pm on 08/15/11 at 04:45:54, chessandgo wrote:
No problem ... may be next coincidence will arrange better meeting ;). |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by knarl on Aug 16th, 2011, 11:44pm I applied to join The Gang! I hope the initiation isn't too bad ;-) knarl. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Aug 17th, 2011, 1:27am on 08/16/11 at 23:44:56, knarl wrote:
To be accepted you have to kill a bunny. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by knarl on Aug 17th, 2011, 6:33pm on 08/17/11 at 01:27:35, Fritzlein wrote:
Murdering a Mob bunny isn't a problem. It'll be good practice for all the Mob bunnies to be dispatched in-game! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Simon on Aug 18th, 2011, 12:10am TheMob is now eating into reserve! I guess Fritzlein must be on vacation? ;) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by rbarreira on Aug 18th, 2011, 3:06am on 08/18/11 at 00:10:08, Simon wrote:
Perhaps they tried to kill the Monty Python bunny... |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by UruramTururam on Aug 18th, 2011, 3:20am And they counted to six instead of counting to three. ;D |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by mistre on Aug 18th, 2011, 8:59am There will be a move made today, don't worry Gang. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Aug 18th, 2011, 11:13am on 08/18/11 at 00:10:08, Simon wrote:
No, but Fritzlein did freak out on the seventh day of discussion, changing his mind and questioning one of frontrunning moves with some inaccurate analysis. My favorite color is blue. No, yellow -- auuuuuuugh! on 08/18/11 at 03:20:23, UruramTururam wrote:
Rest assured, the Holy Hand Grenade shall be lobbed in thy direction, as thou hast been naughty in the sight of the Lord. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Aug 18th, 2011, 4:01pm on 08/18/11 at 11:13:51, Fritzlein wrote:
Yes, seems the gang dominates the board such that the mob is not able to find an adequate answer ... ;) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nazgand on Aug 18th, 2011, 6:56pm on 08/18/11 at 16:01:06, Hippo wrote:
You are not looking at it objectively enough. Instead of saying your own team is ahead because it is your team, really look at the board. I guarantee you will come up with a different conclusion. 8) Peace out! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by UruramTururam on Aug 19th, 2011, 2:13am Objectively looking my team is the best. *) What's the problem? *) Or even THE BESTEST (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp7IMOKjQrI)! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Aug 19th, 2011, 12:04pm Objectively speaking, my subjective opinion is always correct. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Migi on Aug 19th, 2011, 1:35pm I know the game is already on its way, and my rating is only 1622 at the moment, but I sent my offer to join the Gang anyway. Hope I can still get in ;D |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Simon on Aug 19th, 2011, 1:54pm New members are always welcome until the day the Gang coordinator sends in the winning move. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Sconibulus on Aug 19th, 2011, 1:59pm You'll be accepting members even after your inevitable defeat? A bold proposition. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Aug 20th, 2011, 5:16am on 08/19/11 at 13:35:44, Migi wrote:
Migi, I cannot find the PM ... send from this forum, but you will be gladly invited. ... See Hey, Migi, you have ... messages. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Migi on Aug 20th, 2011, 7:29am on 08/20/11 at 05:16:12, Hippo wrote:
Sorry, I must've missed the part about sending the PM. All I did was go to http://arimaagang.pbworks.com/ and filled in the "Request Access" form. But anyway: Hey, Hippo, you have 1 message too now ;) EDIT: alright I'm in! I'm really excited about this. ;D |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by rbarreira on Aug 25th, 2011, 4:15pm Aaaand it's the Mob's turn. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by rbarreira on Sep 1st, 2011, 6:21am I can see that the Mob moved 12 hours ago... I was under the impression that notifications of moves would be posted here, which would be nice as there's no automatic notification. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by mistre on Sep 1st, 2011, 11:43am My apologies, I forgot to post. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheGang on Sep 9th, 2011, 12:25am on 09/01/11 at 11:43:35, mistre wrote:
Now it's TheMob's turn. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheMob on Sep 16th, 2011, 9:44am TheGang is on the clock (posted right after I made the move). ;D |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheGang on Sep 26th, 2011, 8:30am The_mob is on the clock now. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by cvic on Oct 3rd, 2011, 4:52am I want to join TheGang. Already signed up |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by chessandgo on Oct 4th, 2011, 3:54pm welcome :) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheMob on Oct 8th, 2011, 11:48pm TheMob has finally moved. Gang you're up. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheGang on Oct 14th, 2011, 4:16pm The Mob's turn ... |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by mistre on Oct 23rd, 2011, 2:40pm Gang's turn. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheGang on Oct 26th, 2011, 2:02pm The Mob's turn again |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by novacat on Oct 26th, 2011, 5:35pm The Gang's turn again. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheGang on Oct 26th, 2011, 5:42pm on 10/26/11 at 17:35:09, novacat wrote:
No, it's the Mob's turn. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheMob on Oct 30th, 2011, 9:20pm No really, it is the Gang's turn... |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheGang on Nov 2nd, 2011, 2:50pm The Mob again |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by chessandgo on Nov 5th, 2011, 6:19pm on 10/30/11 at 21:20:23, TheMob wrote:
Look Mobsters, Hippo's told you so a bazillion times, it's your turn! Trying to convince us that we're to play won't work any more than hassling our caMel! :p |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheMob on Nov 15th, 2011, 8:12am TheGang is on the clock. Feel free to take your time - you are going to need it! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheGang on Nov 26th, 2011, 12:55am TheMob again |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheMob on Dec 11th, 2011, 2:16pm Finally, The Gang gets a go.. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by mistre on Dec 17th, 2011, 11:17pm I have a request to join the Mob and I need verification of the gameroom name for this email - gurugsk@gmail.com. If anyone knows who this is, please let me know. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by TheGang on Dec 18th, 2011, 5:38pm The gang made it's move 12g. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Dec 18th, 2011, 5:41pm on 12/17/11 at 23:17:46, mistre wrote:
Maybe http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/playerpage.cgi?id=16268 |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Arimabuff on Dec 19th, 2011, 1:14am on 12/18/11 at 17:41:14, Fritzlein wrote:
This is uncanny! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Manuel on Dec 27th, 2011, 4:59am It seems it is our (the Gang's) turn again...! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by mistre on Jan 10th, 2012, 8:15am Hippo, There has been talk amongst The_Mob that we might want to put The Mob vs The Gang match on hiatus for a few months due to low voter turnout and the 2012 World Championship diverting attention from the game. In order for this to work, we need the last move made to be sealed (meaning that the other team is not aware of the move, so they can't preplan their next move). We will need to work with Omar to do this, so please let me know if The Gang is interested. Your current move can be the sealed move. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jan 10th, 2012, 9:49am I have hoped for the contrary that WC will made arimaa more "up to date" to provoke thinking on the Mob/Gang game. But you are right I can see small interest on last moves. But it could be due to fact the game started to complicate. OK, I will let the gangsters to say a word about it ... . But sure it's better to interrupt the game for a while than to let mobsters lose on time ;). |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by chessandgo on Jan 10th, 2012, 11:56am Sounds like a good idea! Although, as Hippo mentions, if we time out on this move it'll be unnecessary -.- |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jan 13th, 2012, 6:13pm We decided our move on 14th January 0:13 GMT. (0:12:36 according the chatroom). |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jan 13th, 2012, 6:28pm The key issue is how much time you had in reserve when you decided; Omar can then restart the game with that much reserve, just in time for you to make the move. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jan 14th, 2012, 6:35am on 01/13/12 at 18:28:59, Fritzlein wrote:
fortunately there is 1 to 1 correspondene in these two times... |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jan 15th, 2012, 8:50am on 01/14/12 at 06:35:31, Hippo wrote:
You are absolutely correct. Even so, I can think of at least (519 + 173)/(519 - 173) reasons to give the relevant number directly rather than forcing readers to do a calculation. ::) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Jan 16th, 2012, 11:10am I get 6 days, 1 hour, 35 minutes, and 21 seconds. Would anyone care to corroborate? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jan 16th, 2012, 11:15am Yes something like that was on the clock ;) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by rbarreira on Jan 16th, 2012, 11:39am on 01/16/12 at 11:10:29, Fritzlein wrote:
It's now 16th Jan 17:35 GMT, and the game is saying: 3d8h12m in reserve 16th Jan 17:35 minus 14th Jan 0:13 = 2 days, 17 hours and 22 minutes 3d8h12m plus 2d17h22m = 6 days, 1 hour and 34 minutes. My crude approximation is almost exactly your figure, so I'd corroborate your result. PS: The mob has 5d18h1m35s in reserve. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by omar on Jan 19th, 2012, 12:26pm I just noticed Hippos message to me via the forum to interrupt the team game. Sorry I didn't see that earlier. It's better to send me a message through the Contact page or from the Message link on my gameroom profile. But even if I had seen this earlier, there is no way to stop the clock. It is not possible to adjourn a game. We would just have to let it time out and I could resume the game then. Do you still want to do this? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Jan 19th, 2012, 2:40pm Yes, this is exacly what we want. Just don't restart it till we ask you :). ... And remember the move I have sent you ... |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by omar on Jan 19th, 2012, 8:43pm Sounds good. I've saved the move you sent me. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by tharkun on Feb 17th, 2012, 4:11pm Greetings! I would like to join one of the teams when the game is restarted. From the earlier discussion in this thread I surmise that there has been an effort to balance the two teams in terms of (active) team members. Would it be opportune for me to join a particular team or is it pretty much inconsequential? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Feb 17th, 2012, 6:15pm Of course the Mob will win no matter which team you join, so the primary question is whether you would like to be a winner or a loser. ;) Seriously, there has been so much trash talk, I am not sure if either team would admit to having the less vigorous discussion, and therefore being more in need of help. Should we call a trash-talk truce and honestly report how many posts/participants/votes each team had on, say, the last three moves before the game was suspended? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nombril on Feb 17th, 2012, 9:46pm Oh, I thought it was the US vs. ROW , or did that dividing line never stick? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by chessandgo on Feb 18th, 2012, 4:31am In the Gang we had very few active players, especially during the last few moves played. We're welcoming help! :) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by tharkun on Feb 18th, 2012, 7:43am on 02/17/12 at 21:46:04, Nombril wrote:
I think that was the initial intential, but some people seem to have switched teams because the US had a strong numerical advantage. on 02/18/12 at 04:31:44, chessandgo wrote:
Okay, so I'll join the Gang then! on 02/17/12 at 18:15:54, Fritzlein wrote:
"It's not the result that matters, but the experience" ;D |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by rbarreira on Feb 18th, 2012, 8:20am On move 13 the gang only cast 5 votes. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Feb 18th, 2012, 9:20am on 02/18/12 at 08:20:59, rbarreira wrote:
I don't have the link to the Condorcet site any more, but my recollection is that the Mob also cast only five votes on move 12s. (I believe I was the only one who voted for my first preference, and I was outgunned 3-1-1.) We also welcome new members. (but only those who want to win! ;)) current position: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=211167&s=w |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by ginrunner on Feb 20th, 2012, 3:28pm I sort of fell out when I stopped understanding what was happening and life took over ... sorry team |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Feb 20th, 2012, 3:43pm on 02/20/12 at 15:28:58, ginrunner wrote:
No need to apologize for having a real life; what's pathetic is that I don't. I'm sure when the time is right you will come back to help the Rockies rock the AWL and help the Mob mob the Gang! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Feb 20th, 2012, 7:05pm on 02/18/12 at 07:43:58, tharkun wrote:
Send me a PM with your mail to use in PBWorks in that case ... |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by rbarreira on Apr 17th, 2012, 5:40am Any idea when the game will be restarted? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by omar on Apr 24th, 2012, 1:38pm When the teams are ready, let me know and I can get it restarted. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by mistre on May 14th, 2012, 9:43am I'm ready to go when everyone else is. Maybe Hippo and I can send out an email to our team members to see if we have enough interest to continue. Also, if there is anyone out there that wants to join in, please post in this thread and I can send you the information on how to sign up for the pbworks site. Hippo, you ready? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by supersamu on May 14th, 2012, 11:57am I would like to participate in the game. The teams are split up by region, right? Edit: I am from europe |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by browni3141 on May 14th, 2012, 4:41pm I would also like to play. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Thiagor on May 15th, 2012, 2:38pm Me too! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by hyperpape on May 16th, 2012, 8:30am I'd really just like to view the discussions--I doubt I could add anything. I'm from the US. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Nombril on May 17th, 2012, 10:04am on 05/16/12 at 08:30:59, hyperpape wrote:
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on May 19th, 2012, 11:10am Yes I have tought about the game restart :) I use most of my free time by bot_Hippo codding for the mixer (except I have take 1 week break). But I hope I would be able to manage the game. I should send the e=mail to the team members to see their reaction ... as at the end there was small interest for the game. Yes browni int(1000\pi) you are gladly welcomed, as well as Thiagor or Supersamu. Please follow the standard procedure ... send me a PM through this forum with your e-mail address used for PBWorks. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by browni3141 on May 19th, 2012, 2:22pm on 05/19/12 at 11:10:30, Hippo wrote:
Clever, but did you mean browni int(1000*pi)? Oh, and what team will I be on? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by mistre on May 19th, 2012, 8:38pm Since browni3141 lives in the U.S., we will take him, thank you very much! It is meant to be U.S. vs rest of the world, but it is not completely strict. Once you pick a team, that is the team you stay with obviously. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on May 21st, 2012, 2:52pm on 05/19/12 at 14:22:40, browni3141 wrote:
OK my notation is less "self compatible". When using TeX notation for the constant, I should use \lfloor,\rfloor for rounding down ... . |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by browni3141 on May 21st, 2012, 4:02pm I guess I'll join the mob then, unless the gang needs members. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on May 22nd, 2012, 3:55pm It seems to me the gang is not ready to start. Yes, we need fresh members ;). |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by mistre on May 22nd, 2012, 4:59pm I am not sure about the Mob, I haven't asked yet. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by supersamu on Mar 5th, 2013, 1:35pm I don´t know how you all think, but in my opinion now (or in two to three weeks) is a good time to start the mob vs. the gang game again. I think we have more active players than in non-WC times, and also some newly registered players, which we could get on the hook with this coordinated team-postal game. What do you think? Who has the time to participate? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by browni3141 on Mar 5th, 2013, 2:15pm I am still here for whatever team needs players to get this started. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Mar 5th, 2013, 6:14pm I can't give any commitment until summer at least; for now I would probably participate, but might not get around to it on some moves. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by supersamu on Mar 18th, 2013, 3:00pm Are Hippo and mistre still available for team coordination? How many players do we need to get started? I think we should start to recruit players and ask if the players that played before the break are still available. I would really like to see this happening. I would be able to take over the job of the team coordinator if either mistre or Hippo don´t have the time. Maybe one week before the game begins we can have an announcement in the gameroom. That might get us some new players, who don´t read the forum. At that time, we should be sure that we can start the event, regardless if new other people sign up for the mob or the gang. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Mar 18th, 2013, 5:28pm on 03/18/13 at 15:00:50, supersamu wrote:
I should just copy links and passwords from the other laptop to be able to start ... if the gangsters would cooperate. In each case our move was already sent to omar at the end of 2011. So after the restart it's the mob's turn. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by mistre on Mar 22nd, 2013, 12:14pm Supersamu, You are welcome to take over for me as Mob coordinator. I can give you everything you need and some instructions on what to do should restarting this game become a reality. Thanks, Mark |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by supersamu on Mar 22nd, 2013, 4:50pm Ok, mistre just send me the instructions per forum message and I will start recruiting. I am glad to be on the winning team. (Of course every team I am in is the winning team) (I feel obliged to continue the trash-talking) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by arhart on Mar 23rd, 2013, 10:23am I've been wondering if this will start up again; sounds fun |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by supersamu on Apr 3rd, 2013, 12:02pm Hippo, to start this game, we probably have to do some recruiting. I will write to all former mobsters to see if they are still in and will try to recruit some new ones ( not necessarily for the mob, but also for the gang if you need more members than I). It would be nice if you can give me an update per message or per forum post here. Let´s hope that we can start the game soon! |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Apr 5th, 2013, 2:36pm on 04/03/13 at 12:02:36, supersamu wrote:
OK, I will sent a letter to them soon :) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Apr 9th, 2013, 6:47pm on 04/05/13 at 14:36:19, Hippo wrote:
It's sad, I got only one reaction ... from a deserter ... you ... that I should remove you from gangsters before the game continues. I will remove you from gangsters when we decide the game could continue ... I don'mind to have a spy while the game is not restarted. Oops Brendan_M joined the gang so I got two reactions. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by odin73 on Apr 10th, 2013, 1:46am Who´s the Mob, who´s the Gang? Any Mafia group still needs recruitment? I´m good in short range fighting as well as in driving a car. And my uncle was a deputy teached by the Blues Brothers 8) |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Manuel on Apr 10th, 2013, 8:15am on 04/09/13 at 18:47:55, Hippo wrote:
I was member of the gangsters but I did not receive any mail from you. Maybe that explains the small number of answers... |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Fritzlein on Apr 10th, 2013, 11:48am It was always clear that Europe would be no match for mighty America :D |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Apr 10th, 2013, 4:13pm on 04/10/13 at 08:15:36, Manuel wrote:
I have written to PB works and it resends the post to the registered e-mail adresses. Is your e-mail address same as at the end of 2011? |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Manuel on Apr 11th, 2013, 2:38am on 04/10/13 at 16:13:30, Hippo wrote:
Yes, it is still the same. |
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Title: Re: TheMob vs TheGang Post by Hippo on Apr 11th, 2013, 7:12am on 04/11/13 at 02:38:24, Manuel wrote:
In that case I am afraid an antispam policy must have changed on the path. I have received the e-mail immediately and 3 more after reactions of other gangsters. |
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