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(Message started by: Fritzlein on Mar 27th, 2014, 12:44am)
Title: 2014 Postal Mixer
Post by Fritzlein on Mar 27th, 2014, 12:44am
I forgot that registration for the Postal Mixer ends at the same time that the Challenge Screening ends, i.e. March 31.  That means it is not too early to start the tournament discussion thread.  We have 25 registrants so far.  How many will jump in at the last minute?
Title: Re: 2014 Postal Mixer
Post by mistre on Mar 27th, 2014, 9:40am
Are the pairings going to be made based on gameroom ratings or WHRP?  They should be done using WHRP if possible.
Title: Re: 2014 Postal Mixer
Post by Fritzlein on Mar 27th, 2014, 9:52am
I suggested to Omar that he use WHRP for players who have one and substitute gameroom rating for anyone without WHRP.  He said he would put it in his notes for how to set up the Postal Mixer.  From looking at http://arimaa.com/arimaa/tourn/postal/2013/showGames.cgi , that's what happened last year.  So, in the absence of further information, I expect it to happen again this year.
Title: Re: 2014 Postal Mixer
Post by rbarreira on Apr 1st, 2014, 2:29pm
Ziltoid will not be participating in the postal mixer this year, mostly due to me being nearly sick of the negative comments about it in the chatroom since the WCC started.

The other part of it is that it always takes a sizable investment in electricity and PC time, which tends to limit my use of the PC during the postal mixer.

If a select few are interested in playing postally against it,  that can be arranged.
Title: Re: 2014 Postal Mixer
Post by browni3141 on Apr 1st, 2014, 4:04pm

on 04/01/14 at 14:29:03, rbarreira wrote:
Ziltoid will not be participating in the postal mixer this year, mostly due to me being nearly sick of the negative comments about it in the chatroom since the WCC started.

Although you haven't named names, I feel that this is mainly directed at me. I apologize that I offended you. It is easy to trash a bot because it has no feelings, forgetting that the developer does. I repeatedly insulted your creation, which understandably upset you.

As long as it has weaknesses, I can not promise to no longer make negative comments about ziltoid, but I can do my best to restrict the negativity to objective criticisms, and avoid anything mean-spirited.

Sometimes when I am speaking I will make jokes, and sometimes those jokes go to far. You can call it a flaw of mine that I have a hard time knowing when I've crossed a line without somebody telling me so. I really wish you had said something sooner. While I might be socially clueless, I am not a jerk, and I would have shown more respect if you objected publicly or privately.

Finally, although I feel sharp is the stronger bot, I congratulate you and ziltoid for winning the screening. You have earned the right to the Challenge this year.
Title: Re: 2014 Postal Mixer
Post by rbarreira on Apr 1st, 2014, 4:15pm

on 04/01/14 at 16:04:14, browni3141 wrote:
Although you haven't named names, I feel that this is mainly directed at me. I apologize that I offended you. It is easy to trash a bot because it has no feelings, forgetting that the developer does. I repeatedly insulted your creation, which understandably upset you.

As long as it has weaknesses, I can not promise to no longer make negative comments about ziltoid, but I can do my best to restrict the negativity to objective criticisms, and avoid anything mean-spirited.

Sometimes when I am speaking I will make jokes, and sometimes those jokes go to far. You can call it a flaw of mine that I have a hard time knowing when I've crossed a line without somebody telling me so. I really wish you had said something sooner. While I might be socially clueless, I am not a jerk, and I would have shown more respect if you objected publicly or privately.

Finally, although I feel sharp is the stronger bot, I congratulate you and ziltoid for winning the screening. You have earned the right to the Challenge this year.


Thank you for the kind words and for explaining your perspective! As I just said in the chatroom I'm definitely fine with criticism and even some amount of poking fun at the bot (which does deserve some of it :P). Actually I welcome it. But yeah, I was starting to get a bit tired of the constant flow of it.

Thinking back, I guess should have spoken out about it a bit earlier. Although I guess during the screening that could have been perceived wrongly.
Title: Re: 2014 Postal Mixer
Post by arimaa_master on Apr 2nd, 2014, 5:55am

on 04/01/14 at 14:29:03, rbarreira wrote:
If a select few are interested in playing postally against it,  that can be arranged.


I am interested to play postal game(s) against ziltoid.
Title: Re: 2014 Postal Mixer
Post by Brendan_M on Apr 2nd, 2014, 1:23pm
I'm little bit disappointed to have selected only 3 games to play this year and last year but have drawn 2 out of 3 of the same opponents. Is there any chance this can be adjusted?
Title: Re: 2014 Postal Mixer
Post by Fritzlein on Apr 2nd, 2014, 2:01pm

on 04/02/14 at 13:23:53, Brendan_M wrote:
I'm little bit disappointed to have selected only 3 games to play this year and last year but have drawn 2 out of 3 of the same opponents. Is there any chance this can be adjusted?

I was looking forward to playing you, Brendan, but we didn't get a game because Omar for some reason decided to use WHRE for pairing instead of WHRP.  Why wouldn't WHRP be the most appropriate?  But anyway I doubt it can be fixed now.  Omar used to spend a lot of time discussing things like registration fee, prize format, pairing scheme, etc. in the forum before each event, but now he is short of time for Arimaa.
Title: Re: 2014 Postal Mixer
Post by Brendan_M on Apr 3rd, 2014, 6:03pm
I was also hoping to play you Karl. Maybe we can play a postal game once we have finished a few of our current postal games?
Title: Re: 2014 Postal Mixer
Post by Fritzlein on Apr 3rd, 2014, 10:34pm

on 04/03/14 at 18:03:21, Brendan_M wrote:
I was also hoping to play you Karl. Maybe we can play a postal game once we have finished a few of our current postal games?

I only have five games, and at the moment that is too many!  My putative time advantage (i.e. I excel at postal Arimaa because I have more free time than my opponents) may not materialize this year.  I only signed up for the Postal Mixer because I hope that summer will be more laid back.  Hopefully I haven't timed out in all my games before then!
Title: Re: 2014 Postal Mixer
Post by rbarreira on Apr 7th, 2014, 8:31pm

on 04/02/14 at 05:55:59, arimaa_master wrote:
I am interested to play postal game(s) against ziltoid.


Sorry for the late reply. I will try to issue an invite for a postal game from the bot one of these days (after I get the postal bot set up). If that doesn't work we can meet in the chatroom and set it up.
Title: Re: 2014 Postal Mixer
Post by arimaa_master on Apr 8th, 2014, 9:20am

on 04/07/14 at 20:31:50, rbarreira wrote:
Sorry for the late reply. I will try to issue an invite for a postal game from the bot one of these days (after I get the postal bot set up). If that doesn't work we can meet in the chatroom and set it up.



Thank you.
Title: Re: 2014 Postal Mixer
Post by Heyckie on Jul 4th, 2014, 12:13am
I just want to let you all know that ChrisB is a real gentleman and a great sporting spirit (not that I think anyone had any doubts about it). Also I want to make sure we're not collaborating to "fix" the result of our game for or against any person or purpose.

In our game (id385683) in the mixer we reached an interesting, pretty even endgame (or very late middle game) where while sending 34g I clicked the undo and redo buttons back and forth bit too carelessly and mistakenly sent a move without the last step. The sent move would have cost me a Cat and pretty certainly the game. Frustrated, I typed: "misclick :(".

ChrisB then suggested to bring the position back to where it was before the move, pointing out that he thought the position was interesting and wanted to see how it played out, to which I agreed. The next 1.5 moves were then played in a way mutually agreed to get the same position as before 34g. After I sent my originally intended 34g on 36g we're now continuing the game in a competitive way again.

I hope the non-competitive moves 34s-35s do not raise any issues given these circumstances and most importantly if they do, no harm is done to ChrisB.

Thanks again to ChrisB, cheers all!
Title: Re: 2014 Postal Mixer
Post by ChrisB on Jul 4th, 2014, 10:21am

on 07/04/14 at 00:13:46, Heyckie wrote:
I just want to let you all know that ChrisB is a real gentleman and a great sporting spirit (not that I think anyone had any doubts about it). Also I want to make sure we're not collaborating to "fix" the result of our game for or against any person or purpose.

In our game (id385683) in the mixer we reached an interesting, pretty even endgame (or very late middle game) where while sending 34g I clicked the undo and redo buttons back and forth bit too carelessly and mistakenly sent a move without the last step. The sent move would have cost me a Cat and pretty certainly the game. Frustrated, I typed: "misclick :(".

ChrisB then suggested to bring the position back to where it was before the move, pointing out that he thought the position was interesting and wanted to see how it played out, to which I agreed. The next 1.5 moves were then played in a way mutually agreed to get the same position as before 34g. After I sent my originally intended 34g on 36g we're now continuing the game in a competitive way again.

I hope the non-competitive moves 34s-35s do not raise any issues given these circumstances and most importantly if they do, no harm is done to ChrisB.

Thanks again to ChrisB, cheers all!


Thanks, Heyckie, nice summary!

I'm glad we got the game back on track and I'm very curious how it will play out.
Title: Re: 2014 Postal Mixer
Post by browni3141 on Jul 4th, 2014, 10:27am
I think it is more in the spirit of the Mixer to fix the error and play it out. Now you and any spectators get to see you play out the game.
Title: Re: 2014 Postal Mixer
Post by Fritzlein on Jul 4th, 2014, 10:40am
Very sporting of you, ChrisB!
Title: Re: 2014 Postal Mixer
Post by Fritzlein on Jul 26th, 2014, 5:52pm
Here is the updated table of bot performance in the Postal Mixer, calculated by the game-room ratings of the opponents.

Bot .    Year Record Postal Performance
---      ---- ------ ------------------
Bomb     2005   4-6   1716
Zombie   2007   1-14  1409
Sharp    2008   1-8   1568
OpFor    2008   8-9   2060
OpFor    2009   3-7   1798
OpFor    2010   6-8   1848
Clueless 2010   9-7   2072
Briareus 2011  12-6   2167
Hippo    2012   4-4   1798
Briareus 2012  10-4   2221
Trash    2013   3-15  1431
Hippo    2013   7-11  1735
Briareus 2013  13-5   2186
Maximus  2014   2-18  1315

Note that even with two wins, Maximus clocks in below Zombie with one win, because Maximus faced more low-rated opposition than Zombie in its day.
Title: Re: 2014 Postal Mixer
Post by browni3141 on Jul 26th, 2014, 6:34pm

on 07/26/14 at 17:52:41, Fritzlein wrote:
Here is the updated table of bot performance in the Postal Mixer, calculated by the game-room ratings of the opponents.

Bot .    Year Record Postal Performance
---      ---- ------ ------------------
Bomb     2005   4-6   1716
Zombie   2007   1-14  1409
Sharp    2008   1-8   1568
OpFor    2008   8-9   2060
OpFor    2009   3-7   1798
OpFor    2010   6-8   1848
Clueless 2010   9-7   2072
Briareus 2011  12-6   2167
Hippo    2012   4-4   1798
Briareus 2012  10-4   2221
Trash    2013   3-15  1431
Hippo    2013   7-11  1735
Briareus 2013  13-5   2186
Maximus  2014   2-18  1315

Note that even with two wins, Maximus clocks in below Zombie with one win, because Maximus faced more low-rated opposition than Zombie in its day.

Both of Maximus' wins were by time, one where it was losing badly, the other too early to be clear, so this isn't quite fair.
Title: Re: 2014 Postal Mixer
Post by Fritzlein on Jul 27th, 2014, 1:47am

on 07/26/14 at 18:34:10, browni3141 wrote:
Both of Maximus' wins were by time, one where it was losing badly, the other too early to be clear, so this isn't quite fair.

It's a bit silly, to be sure, but at least the calculation is consistent.  Note that last year all three wins of bot_trash were on time as well.  One just has to realize that the postal rating of bot depends on the reliability of its developer.  The same goes for human postal ratings; chessandgo's timeout to mistre this year affects their respective WHRP ratings just the same as if the game had been decided over the board.
Title: Re: 2014 Postal Mixer
Post by Fritzlein on Sep 24th, 2014, 11:31am
I notice that I am the only player who has not yet completed a game in the tournament, and that 10 of 26 players have already completed all of their games.  My count may be unreliable, though, because, I'm relying on http://arimaa.com/arimaa/tourn/postal/2014/showGames.cgi , which has been messed up by multiple zombied games.


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