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        Arimaa >> Off Topic Discussion >> Computer program resolve checkers!!!!!
        
(Message started by: OLTI on Jul 20^th, 2007, 6:21am)

Title: Computer program resolve checkers!!!!!
Post by OLTI on Jul 20^th, 2007, 6:21am

Check out this
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070719/ap_on_hi_te/solving_checkers

Title: Re: Computer program resolve checkers!!!!!
Post by Fritzlein on Jul 20^th, 2007, 8:21am

Wow, only 13 years between Chinook topping the best human and solving the game. That must be a testament to the importance of brute force. Surely the same will not be true for chess or Go, will it? If computers win the World Championship of Go in 2025, will Go be solved in 2038? I don't think so, because I think computers will win at Go by some not-mostly-brute-force method.

Title: Re: Computer program resolve checkers!!!!!
Post by JacquesB on Jul 20^th, 2007, 11:35am

Go will never be solved in the strict sense used in game theory. Of course, I expect to see the day when a computer beats the strongest human soon (say before 2030). After many years in computer go I have only understood this about one year ago or so: Go against what can game theory can prove (this is paradoxical) is an infinite game. The search space should be treated as infinite and combinatorial methods are not applicable. The price you have to pay for pruning the decision space is too high and that will always give mediocre programs (in 19x19, of course). Go will be won (not solved) through knowledge engineering and statistics. UCT is just the beginning of a change in the direction of computer go. All pending games (and this includes how Arimaa was created) have been way too much influenced by how chess was won: minimax search + sorted alfa beta pruning + tricks. Almost a decade after deep blue, we have to change our minds to win new games, including Arimaa.

Title: Re: Computer program resolve checkers!!!!!
Post by chessandgo on Jul 20^th, 2007, 11:46am

I don't see how computers could beat humans at go in the forseeable future (say, before the end of humankind ? :o)
Very impressive that they've solved checkers nonetheless ; thanks for the news Olti.

Title: Re: Computer program resolve checkers!!!!!
Post by aaaa on Jul 20^th, 2007, 1:24pm

Good riddance to a game with such a ridiculously high number of draws.

Title: Re: Computer program resolve checkers!!!!!
Post by Fritzlein on Jul 21^st, 2007, 9:22am

on 07/20/07 at 11:46:09, chessandgo wrote:

I don't see how computers could beat humans at go in the forseeable future

I don't see how computers can beat humans at Go either, but that doesn't mean it won't happen. Probably it is just a matter of time. To tell the truth, I don't even see how a sewing machine can work, but it does work. Life has a way of surprising us. ;-)

(Although in this case it might turn out that the people who think computers will inevitably conquer Go are the ones who will be surprised. :))