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        Arimaa >> Off Topic Discussion >> The Boy With the Incredible Brain
        
(Message started by: omar on Sep 7^th, 2008, 6:24pm)

Title: The Boy With the Incredible Brain
Post by omar on Sep 7^th, 2008, 6:24pm

A must see video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8064809333964304431&hl=en

Title: Re: The Boy With the Incredible Brain
Post by omar on Sep 14^th, 2008, 9:37pm

Did anyone get a chance to watch this. It's a bit long, but worth it. I was totally blown away by this guys mental capacity.

Title: Re: The Boy With the Incredible Brain
Post by Janzert on Sep 15^th, 2008, 6:11am

Yes, thanks for bumping this I meant to comment but finished watching late at night and then forgot to comment on it by the next day.

I always find these sorts of things very interesting. I had previously seen a documentary about Kim Peek (the real rain man).

The thing I'm always wishing for when watching this sort of program is that someone would try and develop an np-complete problem that plays to the person's strength. Then see if the savant in question can break np time to solve it with increasingly difficult examples.

Janzert

Title: Re: The Boy With the Incredible Brain
Post by The_Jeh on Sep 15^th, 2008, 8:39am

I watched this and was fascinated by it. Although their talents are better used elsewhere, could someone like this be able to convert such computing capacity into dominance in Arimaa or chess? If there are savants who can remember everything they've ever read, what prevents them from reading tons of chess literature, memorizing enormous opening books and thousands of master games, and then contesting the world title?

Title: Re: The Boy With the Incredible Brain
Post by Fritzlein on Sep 15^th, 2008, 8:40am

I also watched the video and found it amazing.

Janzert, I'm not sure that Daniel's abilities scale up in a way that make NP-completeness applicable. The documentary focused on his abilities, not his limitations, but if I read between the lines correctly, he can quickly multiply arbitrary four-digit numbers, but not arbitrary five-digit numbers. The amazing multiplications where he was overflowing the calculator were all exponentiation, e.g. 27^6, which is somewhat easier than arbitrary multiplication.

If I am not mistaken, Daniel's natural mathematical abilities are surpassed by a few individuals with specialized training. I believe even the abacus whizzes shown in the documentary were doing larger mental multiplications than Daniel can do, but in any event there are individuals who can train themselves to quickly multiply abritrary six-digit numbers. Futhermore Daniel's recitation of pi is not the record; there is a Japanese fellow who recited 100,000 digits by telling himself a story. Look up pseudonumerology (http://folk.ntnu.no/krill/home.htm) for an explanation of how to translate numbers to words and back, a skill that ordinary people can learn.

It is astonishing that someone can naturally do something that would take me years of dedicated study to train myself to do. There is indeed something remarkable about Daniel's brain. But there is also something remarkable about the human brain per se that we don't understand. In a sense the most amazing thing is not any particular human mental accomplishment so much as the general capabilities of the brain that can be trained in so many different directions.

In order to really shake up my world-view, Daniel would need to do something that not even a highly-trained normal person could do, for example, solve the Eternity Two puzzle. (http://www.eternityii.com/) That would be a transcendent accomplishment.

Title: Re: The Boy With the Incredible Brain
Post by Fritzlein on Sep 15^th, 2008, 8:45am

on 09/15/08 at 08:39:55, The_Jeh wrote:

If there are savants who can remember everything they've ever read, what prevents them from reading tons of chess literature, memorizing enormous opening books and thousands of master games, and then contesting the world title?

The problem is that eventually you get "out of book" and have to play on your own. Even if a savant could unfailingly get to a favorable position from the chess opening, he or she would get crushed from there on out by a regular grandmaster. There are too many possible ways to play a game of chess to memorize them all, even for a savant who reads a hundred times faster than I do and never forgets anything.

Title: Re: The Boy With the Incredible Brain
Post by mistre on Sep 15^th, 2008, 8:51am

I just did the online demo of Eternity II (16 pieces) and solved it in 1 min 47 sec.

Not sure if this was good or I just got lucky.

Title: Re: The Boy With the Incredible Brain
Post by The_Jeh on Sep 15^th, 2008, 8:53am

on 09/15/08 at 08:45:43, Fritzlein wrote:

Yes, but assuming the savant and the grandmaster have equal mental potential otherwise, the savant should have a huge advantage, being able to recall any piece of learned information he wants. And you've cited studies showing that the amount of study time is the primary indicator of skill level in chess. Of course, if I recall correctly, savants, while gifted in some mental areas, are often deficient in others. Perhaps that accounts for any weaknesses once out of book.

Title: Re: The Boy With the Incredible Brain
Post by Fritzlein on Sep 15^th, 2008, 9:06am

on 09/15/08 at 08:53:38, The_Jeh wrote:

The main point is how one plays chess well. If a savant studied chess like everyone else and got good at chess in the same way, that would be an achievement, but not a singular one. Your original question was about winning at chess purely by dint of a prodigious memory, which I think is not possible.

I don't know whether savants necessarily have an offsetting mental disadvantage. Of course a perfect memory of chess openings is a big help, all else being equal.

Title: Re: The Boy With the Incredible Brain
Post by Polyfractal on Sep 15^th, 2008, 11:55am

Just finished watching the documentary, very interesting. Perhaps the most interesting part wasn't his phenomenal abilities but rather the way they manifested themselves. He was the first to admit that he wasn't doing any calculating, or even consciously attempting to "solve" the problem. Rather, he just presented the problem to his mind and magically began to get answers back. It was almost as if his mind was treating multiplication like it treats other autonomous activities, such as breathing or digestion.

Very cool stuff :)

Title: Re: The Boy With the Incredible Brain
Post by Arimabuff on Sep 15^th, 2008, 2:32pm

Funny that nobody made any comments about his most impressive skill: being able to learn a language in a week. I've met once a student from Syria with an IQ (evidently) off the scale who learned French in a few weeks right before my very eyes without any help from specialized literature or lessons from teachers ( he couldn't afford them) . It was incredible, each day it was as if I met a slightly different person from someone who knew a dozen words to someone discussing philosophy or the finer points of poetry (he was able to compare people like Rimbaud and Verlaine). That's definitely more remarkable than people reciting the phone book or PI with thousands of decimal places.