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Title: IGGC Games by Designer Post by MarkSteere on Sep 4th, 2010, 2:28pm IGGC GAMES BY DESIGNER (times played in last month) Nothing too scientific here. Just a crude snapshot of game popularity for the past month at IGGC (http://www.iggamecenter.com/info/en/main.html). Robert Abbott Epaminondas (2) Giuseppe Acciaro Men Row Chess (0) Michael H. Albert, J.P. Grossman and Richard Nowakowski Clobber (5) Néstor Romeral Andrés (40) Adaptoid (4) Hippos and Crocodiles (32) Taiji (4) Jorge Gómez Arrausi Pilare (1) Unlur (2) Nicholas Bentley Ketchup (5) Mind Ninja (3) Cameron Browne (100) Akron (66) Yavalath (34) David Bush Pex (1) Davide Casinelli Speed (29) Corey Clark Particle Bond (63) Tommy De Coninck Splut! (6) John Horton Conway Phutball (11) Dave Crummack and Craig Galley Ataxx (9) Víkingur Fjalar Eiríksson Taacoca (1) Vincent Everaert Pods (5) Christian Freeling (65) Dameo (14) Emergo (3) Grand Chess (11) Hanniball (4) Havannah (22) Shakti (11) Gary Gabrel Pente (3) Ralf Gering Kauri (0) Jordan Goldstein Zurero (36) Don Green Snail Trail (1) Jan Kristian Haugland Neutreeko (2) Piet Hein and John Nash (independent) Hex (148 ) John Herr Rekushu (1) Haar Hoolim Three Musketeers (0) Andrew Juell Chain Lighting (0) Ruikou Kuroiwa Renju (0) Ethan Larson Linkage (19) Emanuel Lasker Lasca (0) Phil Leduc Momentum (152) Murus Gallicus (0) Stephen Linhart Susan (3) Steven Metzger Shintai (0) Trigo (4) Steven W. Meyers Forms (0) George Howard Monks Halma (0) João Pedro Neto Gonnect (1) Alan Parr Traffic Lights (6) David Pritchard Jeson Mor (2) Alex Randolph Twixt (42) Benedikt Rosenau Harzdame (0) Arty Sandler (a.k.a. Arty Tchebotaryov, IGGC founder), (104) Crosslet (46) Quartetto (9) Talpa (49) John Scarne Teeko (2) Schensted and Titus Master Y (3) Wally Sewell Stlts (1) Claude Shannon, Charles Titus and Craige Schensted (independent) Y (3) Daniel Shultz Period5 (14) Claude Soucie Lines of Action (8 ) Mark Steere (93) Atoll (9) Cephalopod (2) Crossway (1) Dipole (2) Flume (12) Hex Oust (56) Mad Bishops (0) Oust (8 ) Rush (3) Tanbo (0) Deiter Stein Ordo (3) Omar and Aamir Syed Arimaa (8 ) Bill Taylor Quax (3) Slime Trail (8 ) Dan Troyka Breakthrough (5) Cross-Kalah (1) Unknown Virus Wars (12) Gregory Keith Van Patten (24) Alternator (8 ) Gate (9) Metamorphosis (4) Transposition (3) Lewis Waterman and John W. Mollett Othello/Reversi (27) Professor I-Chen Wu Connect-6 (37) Walter Zamkauskas Amazons (7) Remember when I introduced Cage? Of course you don't. It was completely eclipsed by the mighty Hanniball, which now seems to have gone the way of the Titanic. What's up with Arimaa's lackluster performance? Will we see any new games from the Syed brothers? Edit: sunglass 8's |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by Janzert on Sep 4th, 2010, 3:31pm For anyone else tempted to respond, let me first say: Please don't feed the trolls. Thank you. Janzert |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by MarkSteere on Sep 4th, 2010, 8:20pm lol "I couldn't resist responding, but can everyone else please refrain from doing so?" Try to take a more optimistic view of my post. There are some interesting observations to be made. Cameron Browne, for instance. 100 points with only two games on the server. Not too shabby. |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by Arimabuff on Sep 5th, 2010, 6:23am Father and son, not brothers. At least get your facts straight, fool! |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by MarkSteere on Sep 5th, 2010, 9:25am Ok, father and son. My bad. Sheesh, why all the hostility? Like it's my fault Arimaa only got 8 points. It's not even a bad score really, just not a chart topper. |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by Tuks on Sep 5th, 2010, 11:19am this is kind of funny... obviously not many play arimaa on that site, because they play it on this site, you know, the official one designed for the actual game! |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by Fritzlein on Sep 5th, 2010, 11:27am on 09/05/10 at 11:19:40, Tuks wrote:
Heh, only 2760 plays of Arimaa in the last month, not counting the 8 on IGGC. What a disappointing showing! on 09/05/10 at 09:25:11, MarkSteere wrote:
Because you are dripping with hostility towards Arimaa, Hanniball, most other games you did not design, and anyone who disagrees with you. You have complained before about the treatment you get, but the world is simply a mirror reflecting you back to yourself. Please, take your animosity towards Arimaa and leave us in peace. |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by rbarreira on Sep 5th, 2010, 1:13pm I barely remembered that iGoogle existed, let alone some specific iGoogle gadget for games... There are some statistics here (http://www.iggamecenter.com/stats/general.html). The total number of played games is 51147, I suppose since 2007 which is when the site started. It doesn't seem very popular... This is like judging the popularity of car brands by looking at a secondary road near a village. |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by MarkSteere on Sep 5th, 2010, 4:24pm on 09/05/10 at 13:13:58, rbarreira wrote:
Ohhhh I see. Arimaa is too good for the puny, insignificant IGGC. Thanks for clearing that up. Quote:
Seems more like apples and oranges than old cars on country roads. Edit: ok I see what you're saying, but still... relative to the other games on IGGC, which has the state of the art in abstract games, Arimaa is really nothing special. Whether it's 50,000 games or 500,000 games, Arimaa's relative standing is rather ordinary. |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by MarkSteere on Sep 5th, 2010, 4:48pm on 09/05/10 at 11:19:40, Tuks wrote:
Oh so that's why people aren't playing Arimaa on IGGC. They'd rather play it on the official site. Havannah somehow got a score of 22 even though Christian Freeling games have an official site, Mind Sports Arena (http://www.mindsports.nl/index.php/arena/). How do you explain that? What is this, a tap dancing convention? |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by Fritzlein on Sep 5th, 2010, 5:19pm I apologize, Janzert. You were right about feeding the troll. I understand now that pointing out to Mark how his comments are inappropriate and/or illogical doesn't make him feel bad, it makes him feel good. Any response, even an entirely negative one, energizes him and validates his existence. I should have obeyed your advice in the first place. To my fellow members of the Arimaa community, I have now realized that asking Mark to go away is futile. (I realized long before that engaging him rationally was futile.) If you, like me, wish for nothing further than for him to leave us alone, the most crushing blow you can strike in that cause is to ignore him completely. My first post in this thread was a mistake. I hope that this post will be my last, and that I won't be provoked into responding by whatever snide comment Mark comes up with in response to me. I would like to start thinking as Janzert encouraged us to think, i.e. that any response to Mark whatsoever, even a post saying "go away", is actually a vote for him to stay around. If you want Mark Stere to continue to grace us with his presence then you should reply to his posts and pay attention to him, especially negative attention. If you want more trolls, feed the trolls. |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by MarkSteere on Sep 5th, 2010, 5:57pm on 09/05/10 at 17:19:09, Fritzlein wrote:
False premise, my friend. Nothing I said was inappropriate or illogical. Au contrare. My first statement in the topic was "Nothing too scientific here." I.e., grain of salt. As someone pointed out, IGGC is a new, young site and the game stats aren't real solid. The next 30 days will look a lot different from the last 30. But still, to dismiss the fact that some games got hundreds of plays while Arimaa only got 8 would be "inappropriate and/or illogical". |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by RonWeasley on Sep 6th, 2010, 8:49am This is me not responding. |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by MarkSteere on Sep 6th, 2010, 9:04am This is me not laughing :D |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by Arty on Sep 6th, 2010, 9:25am While appreciating new links to the site, I am not really happy with such an "advertisement" that provokes comments like that: on 09/05/10 at 13:13:58, rbarreira wrote:
Mark, you know that I am trying to prevent all "external" conflicts to be brought to igGC. I would also appreciate if you don't bring igGC's name to "external" conflicts. I don't think that igGC deserves the comparison with a secondary road near a village" |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by rbarreira on Sep 6th, 2010, 9:39am on 09/06/10 at 09:25:22, Arty wrote:
When I made the analogy with a secondary road, I wasn't talking about the quality of the site. It's fine to have a small site, Arimaa is a small game anyway (just like most games are). The point of the analogy is that a small site is way too small of a sample when most of the games in it have a few hundred games played, which probably means many of them got played by a handful of people. Yes, he did say it's not scientific data, but if it warrants creating a thread in a forum maybe it also warrants explaining why the data holds any value... |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by MarkSteere on Sep 6th, 2010, 10:24am on 09/06/10 at 09:25:22, Arty wrote:
The OP really had nothing to do with IGGC per se. It was about the designers, their games, and a data poor snapshot of how well they did at IGGC. It could have just as easily been SDG or any other site. Yes, rbarreira took what could have been interpreted as an ad hominem pot shot at IGGC which he explains in a later post as not being that. Don't be so sensitive. Arty, I value my freedom of speech, something that the moderators of the Arimaa forum have proven to be respectful of, within limits. You just moderate your own forum. Don't come on Arimaa and tell me what not to talk about. |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by Arty on Sep 6th, 2010, 6:13pm I was not telling you Mark. I was asking you not to provoke the bad advertisement. Don't you think that "to tell" and "to ask" are two different things? If it was a discussion about igGC, I would be the last one to "limit" your freedom of speech, no matter what you would say there. But you used igGC as a "tool" in your.. mm.. arguments. And that is something that I asked you to avoid. No point to argue there. It was just a favor that I asked. It's up to you to decide what is more important to you: to use your freedom of speech in that matter or to respect what I asked. |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by MarkSteere on Sep 7th, 2010, 2:07am Ok Arty, you win. I was just having a little fun with the Arimaa crowd, pointing out Arimaa's non-stellar performance at IGGC. For the life of me I can't understand how that reflects poorly on IGGC, but it did seem to prompt a potential misplaced ad hominem IGGC snub from rbarreira so maybe you're right. I can't keep up with all this political correctness. |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by omar on Sep 7th, 2010, 11:47pm Thanks everyone (including Mark) for not letting this thread escalate out of control. Quote:
Probably not. Sometimes I have ideas and I experiment around a bit, but I haven't come up with anything else. I think the only reason why I finished Arimaa was because I had a desire to show that humans could still out play computers over a chess set. Quote:
LOL. I know you well enough to know that you were just trying to ruffle some feathers here :-) For anyone who doesn't know Mark I suggest reading this: http://www.marksteeregames.com/Design_Perspective.html I particularly enjoyed reading the section titled 'The Players' (near the bottom of the page). But seriously I agree with you Mark. Arimaa among games is just another game. Not even an elegant and simple game. In a way it's like beer, you have to play it a bit to develop a taste for it. Once you develop a taste for it though it can be quite addicting :-) . But in the long run what makes or breaks a game is the community of players and fans that grow around it. It takes a lot of time, effort and nurturing for that to happen. I am really thankful to have the kind of community we now have around Arimaa. I really believe that many of your games could develop an even larger community of players if you put some effort behind them. In fact I really enjoyed playing Flume last time I was at IGGC. A big thanks to Arty for making a site like IGGC possible. It gives us an opportunity to try out so many creative new games. The only thing I need now is more time :-) |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by MarkSteere on Sep 8th, 2010, 1:45am on 09/07/10 at 23:47:19, omar wrote:
lol I almost forgot about that. Yes, this topic was a bored attempt at feather ruffling. It kind of blew up in my face though. I never saw so many panties in a knot at one time. I had to pull the plug when I got promoted to warlord, importing and exporting mayhem. One possible rational response to the OP: "You've made your point, Mark. While Arimaa did much better than most of the games in the statistically meaningless, tiny data sample from xyz game site, including most Mark Steere games, it clearly was not flavor of the month at xyz game site, flavor of the month being itself a non-significant distinction in such a tiny sample. Anything else?" me: "No, I guess that about covers it." |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by leo on Sep 10th, 2010, 5:09pm Rimbit wants to join the fun: http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/760/rimbitflamewar.jpg |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by clojure on Sep 10th, 2010, 5:27pm Leo, what a talent you are. Do you happen to have a webcomic, or other artwork in the internet that you would like to share with us? :D edit: First I was, waiiit, there's a picture being downloaded, then I was, how odd, there's elephant and bunch of other familiar Arimaa animals. Oh, wait this is not some random picture took from usenet times that fit the context. It's custom art. Just blows my mind. The pictures I've seen from you has some vivid quality (dynamics/palette/humour?) that hits my soul. |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by leo on Sep 10th, 2010, 6:16pm Thank you Henrik; I'm glad my pictures convey something :) The first picture of Rimbit the Mischievous was born in the "Adventures of Rimbit" thread in the General forum, and eventually all game pieces may turn into a cartoon character each with its own personality. I do have a few comic projects (painterly rather than cartoony) but nothing on the web yet. I'm just not ready. |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by jackspritz on Sep 10th, 2010, 11:35pm on 09/10/10 at 17:09:27, leo wrote:
epic!!!!! think you might make Mark Steere a character? |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by MarkSteere on Sep 11th, 2010, 1:01am on 09/10/10 at 17:09:27, leo wrote:
:) This is truly a first. |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by Arimabuff on Sep 11th, 2010, 11:33am on 09/10/10 at 17:09:27, leo wrote:
At last something good came from this thread! ;D That's art! |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by qswanger on Sep 11th, 2010, 12:17pm I guess I'm just stoopid, but I don't get the cartoon. Can someone explain the humor to me. I'm serious. :-) Talented artist though. |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by leo on Sep 12th, 2010, 5:25pm My goal was to poke some fun at the burst of flames in this thread. I wasn't attacking anybody in particular, not even Mark, but our human nature as seen by the game pieces who live in a separate dimension. Just to take a deep breath and some hindsight :) I may have failed though, in which case it might be better to trim this thread starting from my post. |
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Title: Re: IGGC Games by Designer Post by clojure on Sep 12th, 2010, 5:45pm I found it unique and unexpectedly positive way to handle the situation. I didn't get the impression that anyone was being made fun of. Rather the situation. So if this thread was to be trimmed, your post should be the last man standing. |
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