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        Arimaa >> Off Topic Discussion >> Top female 'shogi' pro falls to computer
        
(Message started by: rbarreira on Oct 13^th, 2010, 8:47am)

Title: Top female 'shogi' pro falls to computer
Post by rbarreira on Oct 13^th, 2010, 8:47am

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20101013a7.html

Interesting that she was playing against a system that chooses the move by majority vote from 4 different Shogi programs. I don't know how that would work if every one of them chose a different move, there must be something else to it.

Better articles are welcome.

Title: Re: Top female 'shogi' pro falls to computer
Post by omar on Oct 13^th, 2010, 11:05am

I was just about to post this as well; a friend just sent me this link on Slashdot

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/10/12/1516220/Computer-Defeats-Human-At-Japanese-Chess

Title: Re: Top female 'shogi' pro falls to computer
Post by omar on Oct 13^th, 2010, 11:49am

I couldn't find any info on what hardware was used. Also it seems that the match was just one game. You can't conclude much from just one game. Or maybe this was just the first game of a longer match.

Title: Re: Top female 'shogi' pro falls to computer
Post by rbarreira on Oct 13^th, 2010, 4:18pm

The four programs were: Gekisashi (winner of the last shogi computer championship), GPSShogi (seems to be open source), YSS and Bonanza.

I'm not sure about the hardware yet, but in the computer championship they limit the power usage to 1000 Watts:

http://www.computer-shogi.org/wcsc20/rule_e.html

I don't think they use custom hardware, since I saw some quotes about the unrealized potential of using FPGAs for computer Shogi.

There's a paper about Gekisashi but I haven't found it online:

http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/200218/000020021802A0583583.php

Title: Re: Top female 'shogi' pro falls to computer
Post by Fritzlein on Nov 2^nd, 2011, 8:57pm

Another man vs. machine match has been scheduled:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nc20111102a1.html

The article doesn't make this clear, but I believe Yonenaga waived his exorbitant prize fund demand for this match. That is to say, for years he has prevented man vs. machine matches from taking place against top shogi professionals by insisting that the computer challenger put up a ridiculous amount of money, but he made an exception that a computer could challenge him personally for much less. Or so I infer without hard information.

I rather expect Bonkras to win, and indeed I am rooting for silicon. Normally I automatically root for humanity in all such contests, but I am so miffed at the ban on professionals playing against computers (in hopes of generating huge sponsorship fees) that I hope the plan backfires. I hope the professional shogi association waited too long to start organizing man vs. machine matches, undermining their money-grubbing tactics, and making the hype less than it would have been with a series of matches all the way up the ladder.

Title: Re: Top female 'shogi' pro falls to computer
Post by rbarreira on Nov 3^rd, 2011, 5:56pm

Interesting, thanks for posting the news Fritz.

I wasn't aware that the shogi computer-human games were not happening due to demands for money, I assumed that they simply wanted to avoid embarrassment if a computer happened to win. Apparently I was wrong...

Title: Re: Top female 'shogi' pro falls to computer
Post by Fritzlein on Nov 3^rd, 2011, 8:04pm

By the way, I read a different etymology for the computer name Bonkras. The article says, "the computer — whose name was taken from a Japanese manga character and is a spin on the word bonkura, meaning "dim-witted" — ". But someone on the shogi mailing list said that the name was a combination of "Bon" from the program "Bonanza" and "kras" which is the sound of the Japanese word for "cluster" of computers. Just like chess engines started adding "Deep" to their name to indicate running on a cluster, "kras" inidicates this shogi engine runs on a cluster.

Maybe both etymologies are true, and it is a double pun. Or maybe I am just repeating a rumor with no basis in truth. :)

Title: Re: Top female 'shogi' pro falls to computer
Post by megajester on Nov 4^th, 2011, 1:51am

That's just bonkars.

Title: Re: Top female 'shogi' pro falls to computer
Post by Fritzlein on Jan 14^th, 2012, 11:14pm

on 11/02/11 at 20:57:09, Fritzlein wrote:

Another man vs. machine match has been scheduled:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nc20111102a1.html

Bonkras defeated Yonenaga yesterday. What will the professional shogi association do next? Continue to forbid the strongest professionals from playing top computers?

http://forum.81squareuniverse.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1214&sid=d4b9430d82d04fd5923fbb2e2b068bc2&start=70