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(Message started by: omar on Jan 21st, 2011, 12:56pm)
Title: Is Chess a Sport
Post by omar on Jan 21st, 2011, 12:56pm
I didn't know that the International Olympics Committee had accepted Chess as a sport now.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/sports/2010/12/16/riddell.chess.champ.pkg.cnn?iref=allsearch

That's cool. Maybe there will be some Chess coverage in the 2014 Olympics.
Title: Re: Is Chess a Sport
Post by Fritzlein on Jan 21st, 2011, 2:44pm
Don't get your hopes up for chess coverage at the 2014 Olympics; first there has to be an event!  Just because the IOC has recognized chess as a sport doesn't mean they will hold a tournament and pass out medals.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_sports
Title: Re: Is Chess a Sport
Post by megajester on Jan 22nd, 2011, 1:50am
I had always been under the impression that the reason chess wasn't an Olympic sport had more to do with FIDE not getting their act together and the whole PCA fiasco.
Title: Re: Is Chess a Sport
Post by omar on Jan 22nd, 2011, 9:46am

on 01/21/11 at 14:44:52, Fritzlein wrote:
Don't get your hopes up for chess coverage at the 2014 Olympics; first there has to be an event!  Just because the IOC has recognized chess as a sport doesn't mean they will hold a tournament and pass out medals.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_sports


The list of recognized sports which don't have events is a bit confusing. I don't understand why Karate or Sumo don't have events while Boxing and Wrestling do. Maybe there is a limit on how many events they can accommodate during the Olympics.
Title: Re: Is Chess a Sport
Post by ii2bcnii on Apr 19th, 2011, 8:36pm
The answer is no.  /debate
Title: Re: Is Chess a Sport
Post by The_Jeh on Apr 20th, 2011, 12:19am

on 01/22/11 at 01:50:12, megajester wrote:
I had always been under the impression that the reason chess wasn't an Olympic sport had more to do with FIDE not getting their act together and the whole PCA fiasco.


Hmm... I always thought chess wasn't an Olympic event because it is not an athletic activity. Yes, you need stamina, etc., etc.... but you know what I mean.
Title: Re: Is Chess a Sport
Post by megajester on Apr 20th, 2011, 12:47am

on 04/20/11 at 00:19:06, The_Jeh wrote:
Hmm... I always thought chess wasn't an Olympic event because it is not an athletic activity. Yes, you need stamina, etc., etc.... but you know what I mean.

Ah yes, but you're talking about why chess shouldn't be an Olympic sport. I'm talking about why it isn't. So unless you're up for a game of strawman... ;D
Title: Re: Is Chess a Sport
Post by christianF on Apr 20th, 2011, 8:04am
"Chess is a sport, a violent sport"
Marcel Duchamp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Duchamp)
Title: Re: Is Chess a Sport
Post by christianF on Apr 20th, 2011, 1:36pm

on 04/20/11 at 00:19:06, The_Jeh wrote:
Hmm... I always thought chess wasn't an Olympic event because it is not an athletic activity. Yes, you need stamina, etc., etc.... but you know what I mean.


Wiki includes "mind sports" in the definition:

Quote:
A sport is an organized, competitive, entertaining, and skillful activity requiring commitment, strategy, and fair play, in which a winner can be defined by objective means. It is governed by a set of rules or customs. Activities such as card games and board games, are classified as "mind sports" and some are recognized as Olympic sports, requiring primarily mental skills and mental physical involvement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport


But the Oxford Dictionary doesn't:

Quote:
An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/sport?view=uk


I think it depends more on one's feeling than on rational arguments. I designed a fair couple of games and a few I would consider "mental sport weapons", so almost impicitly I consider Chess, Go, Shogi and International Draughts as such, among others. But there's little "truth" in these matters ;)
Title: Re: Is Chess a Sport
Post by omar on Apr 20th, 2011, 4:20pm
I guess what most people consider a sport is something that requires fine tuned motor skills. Of course playing chess also requires motor skills, but that's not what distinguishes the players abilities.

If you don't consider motor skills in defining a sport than it really is not different than any other sport played between individuals; like boxing or wrestling.
Title: Re: Is Chess a Sport
Post by RonWeasley on Apr 20th, 2011, 4:32pm
And then there's ice dancing.  Now the discussion gets really ugly.
Title: Re: Is Chess a Sport
Post by Eltripas on Apr 20th, 2011, 8:32pm
Are videogames soprts? What about a football videogame? What about a chess videogame?, no because you are just seated there controlling a machine, yeah but then Nascar is a sport, no?, no thats different because you are risking your life, and what if someone is threatening it your life if you lose the game, does that makes it a sport? or what if there is a chess club that requires their members to be athletic to play and they give beating to the losers, does that make what they are doing a sport? Bah, semantics...
Title: Re: Is Chess a Sport
Post by Fritzlein on Apr 20th, 2011, 11:22pm
One thing that is definitely a sport: arguing over what is a sport!  ;D
Title: Re: Is Chess a Sport
Post by megajester on Apr 21st, 2011, 2:37am

on 04/20/11 at 23:22:40, Fritzlein wrote:
One thing that is definitely a sport: arguing over what is a sport!  ;D

Some people even pay for the privilege... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y)
Title: Re: Is Chess a Sport
Post by qswanger on Apr 21st, 2011, 10:03pm
Of course chess is a sport. Especially when you combine it with boxing: http://www.chessboxing.com/
This is for real by the way.
Title: Re: Is Chess a Sport
Post by UruramTururam on Apr 22nd, 2011, 12:57am
Yup, there's also "diving chess" - the board is 2-2.2 meters under the surface and it,s invisible from there. Players have to make a move during single dives.  ;D

And - for me - a few mind games are sports: chess, Go, Bridge to name three of them.
Title: Re: Is Chess a Sport
Post by Eltripas on Apr 22nd, 2011, 10:07pm
So some people think that chess is a sport, what about chess on a videogame, is that a sport too?

I'm pretty sure that some people will say yes even when they think that a football videogame is not a sport.
Title: Re: Is Chess a Sport
Post by MarkSteere on Apr 22nd, 2011, 10:16pm
Most games with balls are sports.
Title: Re: Is Chess a Sport
Post by The_Jeh on Apr 22nd, 2011, 11:53pm
I think we can all agree that chess is a "game." What is the difference between a "game" and a "sport?" The word "sport" is often used these days to refer to games involving athletic or other muscular ability or coordination. The first known use of the word in such a sense is from 1523. Earlier, around 1440, it was known to refer to a "pleasant passtime." However, "its earliest sense is preserved in phrases such as 'in sport,' 'in jest.'" The original use of "sport" was as a verb meaning "to take pleasure, to amuse oneself." (Online Etymology Dictionary, Dictionary.com)

My own use of the word sport, at least it seems, is to refer to those recreations for which a good number of people train or practice. So, chess, basketball, and fishing are sports, whereas Hide and Seek is not. In this sense of the word, a game can start out not as a sport, and then become one. Alternatively, one may use the word "sport" to refer to a game and its greater recognized organization as a whole. Hide and Seek is a game, but as there is no organization, no significant constituency of individuals devoted to becoming better at it or studing it or just discussing it, there is no Hide and Seek "sport." And finally, a "sport" in this sense need not be a "game" per se, such as in the fishing example.

But remember, like all words (especially in English), "sport" has many different subtle shades of meaning.

And while I love chess, I'm not particularly aggravated by its lack of presence at the Olympics, because as I hinted at, it seems that athletic or physically-dependent games are the Olympics' intention.
Title: Re: Is Chess a Sport
Post by Fritzlein on Apr 23rd, 2011, 12:19am

on 04/22/11 at 23:53:26, The_Jeh wrote:
The original use of "sport" was as a verb meaning "to take pleasure, to amuse oneself."

Our souls have sight of that immortal sea      
Which brought us hither,      
Can in a moment travel thither,
And see the children sport upon the shore,      
And hear the mighty waters rolling evermore.      
Title: Re: Is Chess a Sport
Post by SpeedRazor on Jun 5th, 2011, 5:43pm

on 04/23/11 at 00:19:09, Fritzlein wrote:
Our souls have sight of that immortal sea      
Which brought us hither,      
Can in a moment travel thither,
And see the children sport upon the shore,      
And hear the mighty waters rolling evermore.      


That is beautiful Fritzlein.  Yours?  You credited no one...

Chess in the Olympics?  Yes!  Is Chess a sport, though?  Of course not!  It's an mind game.  Should mind games be in the Olympics?  Yes!!


It seems that forever people have been trying to peg Chess into an Art, Science, or sport.  What have the greatest chessplayesrs said on this subject?

Emanuel Lasker:  "Chess is a struggle"

Victor Korchnoi:  concurred Struggle

Sofia Polgar:  "Chess is a fight!"

So far, not a single Sport, Science or art.  I'll add more, but I expect the Arimaa community to also add more.  OK, when I confirm Mikhail Botvinik's quote, it will knock off science.  But still, not a single "sport"...

Your thoughts?
Title: Re: Is Chess a Sport
Post by Fritzlein on Jun 5th, 2011, 6:43pm

on 06/05/11 at 17:43:36, SpeedRazor wrote:
That is beautiful Fritzlein.  Yours?  You credited no one...

I wish I could write like that!  It is Wordsworth, Intimations of Immortality from Recollections of Early Childhood (http://www.bartleby.com/101/536.html), line 168-172.  The lines I quoted above could be considered a closing parenthesis to the opening parenthesis in lines 59-66:

Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting:      
The Soul that rises with us, our life's Star,
Hath had elsewhere its setting,      
And cometh from afar:      
Not in entire forgetfulness,      
And not in utter nakedness,      
But trailing clouds of glory do we come
From God, who is our home:
Title: Re: Is Chess a Sport
Post by christianF on Jun 6th, 2011, 2:39pm

on 06/05/11 at 17:43:36, SpeedRazor wrote:
It seems that forever people have been trying to peg Chess into an Art, Science, or sport.  What have the greatest chessplayesrs said on this subject?

Emanuel Lasker:  "Chess is a struggle"

Victor Korchnoi:  concurred Struggle

Sofia Polgar:  "Chess is a fight!"

So far, not a single Sport, Science or art.  I'll add more, but I expect the Arimaa community to also add more.  OK, when I confirm Mikhail Botvinik's quote, it will knock off science.  But still, not a single "sport"...

Your thoughts?
If you google chess is a sport (http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&q=%22chess+is+a+sport%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=) you will find some interesting viewpoints in the affermative. Marcel Duchamp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Duchamp#Transition_from_art_to_chess) is often quoted as saying "Chess is a sport, a violent sport" and he certainly was a gifted player as well as a great artist.

I like to think of certain games, including Chess, as "mindsport weapons", in fact "mindsports" implies as much. But where precisely are the boundaries of sport? I feel that way more than I could possibly argue that way.


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