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        Arimaa >> Off Topic Discussion >> Why every tournament game should matter*
        
(Message started by: Janzert on Aug 1^st, 2012, 1:46am)

Title: Why every tournament game should matter*
Post by Janzert on Aug 1^st, 2012, 1:46am

Here is yet another example of a tournament design that ends up rewarding a loss more than a win.

Badminton players charged with throwing matches (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/london/story/2012-07-31/Badminton-players-charged-with-throwing-matches/56630488/1)

Janzert

* at least for serious tournaments where the primary goal is to find the best player(s)

Title: Re: Why every tournament game should matter*
Post by rbarreira on Aug 1^st, 2012, 4:44am

I didn't look at the situation in detail, but couldn't this be highly mitigated by having simultaneous games, as done in football tournaments like the UEFA cups?

Of course I agree that every game mattering is even better.

Title: Re: Why every tournament game should matter*
Post by Janzert on Aug 2^nd, 2012, 12:27am

The players involved have now been disqualified. Here's an article that goes into much more detail (http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/fivering_circus/2012/08/badminton_scandal_olympics_2012_why_were_those_olympic_badminton_players_trying_to_lose_and_why_is_the_sport_so_dirty_.html) than the one I posted above.

From what I can tell this portion of the tournament was 4 separate 4 team round-robins. So no way to make all games that could matter simultaneous.

It also turns out that the perverse incentives in this situation were even worse than I had previously realized. I had thought it was just a case of manipulating the seeding to give more favorable match ups. It turns out there were two chinese teams, both heavy favorites over the rest of the field. But because of an upset loss for one team, if the other team hadn't thrown the game they would have faced each other before the finals. Allowing china to only take gold and bronze at best, instead of the more likely gold and silver by meeting only in the finals.

Janzert

Title: Re: Why every tournament game should matter*
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 2^nd, 2012, 4:43pm

This confirms my decision to carry forward losses from the preliminary into the finals in the 2013 Arimaa World Championship. The former plan of having an Open Classic for qualifying and wiping away losses before the World Championship was flawed. It is unsatisfactory to try to detect intentional losses and punish them: one must instead eliminate any incentive to lose in the first place.

Title: Re: Why every tournament game should matter*
Post by Arimabuff on Aug 3^rd, 2012, 6:49am

on 08/02/12 at 16:43:29, Fritzlein wrote:

I agree wholeheartedly, in any contest it should always be more rewarding to win than to lose. Otherwise, you're just asking for trouble.

Title: Re: Why every tournament game should matter*
Post by russ on Aug 6^th, 2012, 1:36am

I'm always amazed when such prominent high level tournaments use such broken tournament rules that make it to one's direct clear advantage to intentionally lose a tournament game.

The stupid nationalism inherent in these international events also seems to tempt competitors to shenanigans like playing to help other "competitors" from their same country instead of simply playing independently to win as a competitor, alas.

Title: Re: Why every tournament game should matter*
Post by chessandgo on Aug 6^th, 2012, 1:41pm

on 08/03/12 at 06:49:04, Arimabuff wrote:

I agree wholeheartedly,