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        Arimaa >> Off Topic Discussion >> Shogi computer-human match
        
(Message started by: Janzert on Apr 20^th, 2013, 2:42pm)

Title: Shogi computer-human match
Post by Janzert on Apr 20^th, 2013, 2:42pm

Looks like another game has fallen to computers

Quote:

Five computer progrmas played against five Shogi pros. And
computers won by 3.5-1.5. Yesterday, GPS Shogi beated Miura
Hiroyuki 8 dan pro who is ranked third in all Shogi pros.
GPS Shogi uses 677 machines and searches 270 milion postions/sec.

Full message at, http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.games.devel.go/26930

Janzert

Title: Re: Shogi computer-human match
Post by browni3141 on Apr 20^th, 2013, 8:36pm

I wouldn't say computers have overtaken humans just yet. It looks like the third ranked player only played one game with a program, not a match, and the #1 player hasn't been beaten at all ;)

Title: Re: Shogi computer-human match
Post by Janzert on Apr 21^st, 2013, 6:59am

Given that it was five different programs against five different humans, I consider this a more impressive achievement than the Deep Blue over Kasparov victory. Of course neither one proves the computers had passed the humans but I think both showed they are in the same ball park anyway.

Janzert

Title: Re: Shogi computer-human match
Post by Fritzlein on Apr 21^st, 2013, 5:25pm

Thanks for the heads up. I googled for more English-language accounts.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/04/22/national/pro-shogi-players-defeated-by-computer-programs/#.UXRkdLWW_oI

http://lang-8.com/564051/journals/276527624005506358412540051145272303204/Human-versus-computer-Shogi%253A-the-final-game

In 2008 I wrote in Beginning Arimaa that only one hundred shogi professionals were still ahead of top computers. I predicted that in 2010 Arimaa would pass shogi to have more computer-crushers than shogi. I underestimated the pace of improvement in Arimaa computers. We probably have approximately the same number of players in 2013 as we had in 2008 who are favorites to win a Challenge mini-match, not more as I predicted. But at least we Arimaa players can sort of keep pace by learning things as a group, whereas it is tough for shogi pros to get better as a group than they were last year.

Apparently my prediction has belatedly come true in 2013, although the lamentable dearth of top shogi man vs. machine matches makes it hard to tell. I hope Habu smacks down the computers at least one last time for the honor of carbon brains.

Title: Re: Shogi computer-human match
Post by rbarreira on Apr 22^nd, 2013, 1:01pm

Quote:

Tomoyuki Kaneko, a University of Tokyo associate professor who is a member of the team that developed GPSShogi, said he is “glad the computer functioned without any incident” but that he still can’t believe the machines actually won.

I wonder if this is genuine surprise or an example of the stereotypical Japanese humility.

Title: Re: Shogi computer-human match
Post by Fritzlein on Apr 22^nd, 2013, 8:25pm

A link to English-language news video:

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/newsline/201304210206.html

Title: Re: Shogi computer-human match
Post by Fritzlein on May 8^th, 2013, 7:35am

I find the Japanese "dan" rankings byzantine, confusing, and suspect they are highly inaccurate because you can only go up, not down. Fortunately, a shogi fan who maintains Elo ratings for fun has shared his results in English to give some perspective to the magnitude of the computer victory. Here are the Elo ranks of the players on the defeated human team:

12,8-dan Miura Hiroyuki,1750
31,5-dan Funae Kouhei,1659
43,4-dan Abe Kouru,1625
95,4-dan Sato Shinichi,1510
99,9-dan Tsukada Yasuaki,1497

That leaves eleven higher-ranked players to defend humanity's honor, with ratings stretching up another 225 Elo.

1,Ryuo Watanabe Akira,1975
2,Three Crown Habu Yoshiharu,1965
3,9-dan Sato Yasumitsu,1840
4,9-dan Goda Masataka,1830
5,7-dan Toyoshima Masayuki,1826
6,9-dan Kubo Toshiaki,1792
7,8-dan Namekata Hisashi,1786
8,6-dan Itodani Tetsuro,1786
9,9-dan Yashiki Nobuyuki,1769
10,7-dan Sato Amahiko,1760
11,9-dan Maruyama Tadahisa,1759

So we can guess that the end of human dominance in shogi is nearer than the end of human dominance in Arimaa, but that it hasn't quite arrived yet.