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        Arimaa >> Site Discussion >> Re: One small feature request
        
(Message started by: omar on Jun 18^th, 2005, 12:48pm)

Title: Re: One small feature request
Post by omar on Jun 18^th, 2005, 12:48pm

Yep this can be done. Thanks for suggesting it.

Title: Re: One small feature request
Post by Fritzlein on Jun 18^th, 2005, 10:16pm

I suggest you call it "invisible mode". Perhaps the game could not only be prevented from from saving in the database, but prevented from showing up in the "current games" list while it is underway.

Title: Re: One small feature request
Post by omar on Jun 19^th, 2005, 4:52am

Actually I was thinking of just adding an option the 'Change Game' page to say "remove last unrated game". This is not too hard to add. Not allowing other to watch a game in progress would be harder to add. Also it has the side effect of causing a bot to appear as if it not online when actually it is engaged.

One issue with doing it the way I proposed is what if you wait a day or two before deciding to delete your last unrated game and by that time some comments have been added to it. Should it still be deleted?

Title: Re: One small feature request
Post by Fritzlein on Jun 19^th, 2005, 10:13am

on 06/19/05 at 04:52:30, omar wrote:

Actually I was thinking of just adding an option the 'Change Game' page to say "remove last unrated game". This is not too hard to add.

If that's the easiest way to do it, I'm all for it.

Title: Re: One small feature request
Post by omar on Jun 19^th, 2005, 4:44pm

on 06/19/05 at 05:54:06, Arimanator wrote:

Besides let's not rule out the possibility that the comment may sometimes be the cause of him/er wanting the deletion ;D

In such cases, I think it would be good to have the ability to modify or delete the comments, to avoid deleting the whole game. Also a game can sometimes be referenced or linked in other places, so we would not want those links to be broken by deleting the game.

Title: Re: One small feature request
Post by 99of9 on Jun 19^th, 2005, 5:25pm

on 06/19/05 at 04:52:30, omar wrote:

I realise that you have probably suggested the easiest way, and this objection will only make your issues more complex. BUT: I don't think this is a good way to do it, unless you limit it to unrated games against bots.

I do not want my opponent to disappear my game against him afterward unless I have agreed to it (before the game?). So I would much prefer if it was an option when sending the game invitation in the first place.

Also - for statistical research purposes and learning bots, it would be nice if the games were still included in the monthly games database, although I realise that this defeats the idea of privacy a little. [Edit: The good thing is that I don't know of anyone actually using the database to look at individual games at the moment. Is anyone?]

I personally really like the fact that arimaa is a game where our entire playing history can be checked (for some of us at least), and future generations can use it to study how humans learn games.

Title: Re: One small feature request
Post by omar on Jun 20^th, 2005, 1:47am

on 06/20/05 at 00:40:05, Arimanator wrote:

I believe it would be a great benefit for the study of the game if (and I am afraid that's another request that may no be easy to implement) you could give parameters and get a list of games in return.

This is possible by downloading the games archive and loading it into your favorite database or writting your own program to select out the games your looking for. The games archive is available on the downloads page.

Title: Re: One small feature request
Post by 99of9 on Jun 20^th, 2005, 2:25am

on 06/20/05 at 00:40:05, Arimanator wrote:

Not to be critical, just honest, but when I try to consult the database randomly (although if 99of9 assumptions are correct I may be the only one doing this ;D) I am often disappointed by the game I found and reviewing it seems like a waste of time.

Ok, maybe my terminology was wrong. What I mean is the "games archive" that is available on the download page as Omar mentions. That is what we use to run statistical programs (similar to the ones you mentioned that you did for chess). In those statistical programs, we usually don't care about the name of each player - so the potential for embarrassment is lower. What I'm suggesting is that the games are removed from the online viewable database (which you and I both use to look through random games), but that they are still included in the downloadable text-format archive. Would that still be too embarrassing?

This way if someone did want to see the game they would have to exert more effort than it's worth (they would either have to write their own arimaa client, or physically play the games out from the move notation).

You're right that many poor games don't contribute much to the theoretical body of knowledge about arimaa... but they are still very useful in big databases for other reasons. E.g. testing ratings systems, training bots to beat humans, openings statistics, common moves, pieces left at the end of the game, which square a rabbit breaks through on most often... [Edit: that's just what we've used it for *so far*, I'm sure there are many more possibilities]

Title: Re: One small feature request
Post by omar on Jun 20^th, 2005, 2:42am

on 06/19/05 at 17:25:42, 99of9 wrote:

I personally really like the fact that arimaa is a game where our entire playing history can be checked (for some of us at least), and future generations can use it to study how humans learn games.

Yes, I have intentionally taken steps to try and preserve this initial history. I think Arimaa is probably the only game where such detailed information has been preserved since the creation of the game.

In consideration of this maybe it might be better if we decide not to delete any of our games even the unrated ones. You know the old saying: one man's trash is another man's treasure. So we never know what someone might be hunting for in the game archives in the future. Also sometimes interesting new things are tried out in the unrated games. For example a new starting setup. But if that setup does not workout and the player deletes the games, no one will know that such a setup was tried out before. Or if it later proves to be a good setup, no one will know who first introduced it.

Or consider our bot bashing games which are frequently played as unrated games. Some of the games turn out to be ones we would rather not think about agains, but others are so spectacular that we want everyone to know about them. However, if we want to preserve our playing history accurately we can't just save the spectacular ones and delete the bad ones.

The more I think about this with respect to preserving our playing history the more I think it is better if we chose not to delete any of our games.