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        Arimaa >> Site Discussion >> P3 bots
        
(Message started by: arimaa_master on Apr 19^th, 2007, 7:47am)

Title: P3 bots
Post by arimaa_master on Apr 19^th, 2007, 7:47am

Hi, I noticed that bot_arimaascorep2 is playing very fast (almost instantly). Thus I think it will be ok to launch bot_arimaascorep3 (I think still within 2 min limit). Is there any hidden problem why this could´t be possible (the same with other very quick P2 bots - though I have no overview right now so I don´t know which another bot could be so fast at P2 speed)?

Title: Re: P3 bots
Post by IdahoEv on Apr 19^th, 2007, 4:11pm

P3 is MUCH worse than P2.

You have a branch factor of 5000-15000, plus in the increase from P2 to P3 you've covered so many possible moves that the transposition table runs out of memory on any reasonable machine.

Zombie is pretty slow (compared to arimaascore for certain), but can almost always finish P2 in under 2 minutes with all the optimizations turned on.

P3 takes zombie several hours, though. Arimaascore might pull it off, but it would be pretty impressive.

Title: Re: P3 bots
Post by arimaa_master on Apr 20^th, 2007, 2:16am

on 04/19/07 at 16:11:13, IdahoEv wrote:

Yes, I know that it is impossible to finish it (in 2 minutes at average) with Zombie or with some other good bots, but if bot_arimaa_score_P2 makes moves instantly (Let's say 1 sec) then, given the optimized branching factor around 100, I think it can be able to finish P3 search in about 100 sec. But we won´t know for sure without some experimenting with it.

Interesting note about memory issues - but I think it is not necessary to have more memory to complete P3 search (given that the server has 2 GB of memory nowadays - it should be enough).

Last but not least we can solve this (if let's say arimaa_score_P3 should be able to move in 3 minutes on an average) with added time (3 minutes per move with 10 min reserve - assuming that arimaa_score is able to use reserve time properly).

And (depending on server load) it would be fine if all bots will be availaible with their P3 versions for postal games - (to avoid losts on time and heavy server load, I prefer postal games with no time limit - it will allow to run these games when it will be appropriate - considering the server load).

Title: Re: P3 bots
Post by aaaa on Apr 22^nd, 2007, 9:30pm

Omar Syed just created bot_ArimaaScoreP3. (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/playerpage.cgi?id=6232)

Title: Re: P3 bots
Post by arimaa_master on Apr 23^rd, 2007, 3:46am

Omar, thx for launching the arimaascoreP3, I hoped that this bot in P3 version will be slightly smarter - but I see your postal game against P3 and I am really disappointed that this version still makes one move blunders.

And moreover P3 took in one moment over 6 minutes per move (so my prediction wasn´t right :)).

Title: Re: P3 bots
Post by Fritzlein on Apr 26^th, 2007, 7:53am

Arimaa_master, I see you won game 50515 against ArimaaScoreP3. It averaged a bit under five minutes per move, so the search depth was completely feasible, albeit a little slower than you predicted. However, it didn't seem to be much of a challenge. As PMertens once said, even ArimaaScoreP6 is not to be feared.

As for P3 versions of stronger bots, we have reason to think they will not be too scary. The Zombie you are playing right now in the 2007 Postal Tournament is searching a little deeper than P3, and it looks to be on track to win only about 3 of 15, just as I predicted. In the 2005 Postal Tournament, we were essentially playing against BombP3.5, which won only 4 of 10 games.

If, by the year 2020, computers are 100 times faster than at present, but the software of Arimaa bots hasn't improved, humanity will be able to defend the Arimaa Challenge blindfolded.