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        Arimaa >> Site Discussion >> Auto Postal Pairing
        
(Message started by: omar on Aug 7th, 2008, 5:26pm)
Title: Auto Postal Pairing
Post by omar on Aug 7th, 2008, 5:26pm
If you've logged into the gameroom recently, you probably already noticed a page trying to opt you in to automatically paired postal games :-) I had been wanting to set this up for a long time, but the recent success of Karl's continuous tournament pushed me to move on it. Basically what happens is that players specify how many postal games they want and the system tries to pair them. It has already setup 7 games.

Hope everyone enjoys it.
Title: Re: Auto Postal Pairing
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 7th, 2008, 7:30pm
This is a great feature.  I apologize that, although you signed up for mine, I haven't signed up for yours, yet.  Perhaps when I'm done with all my Postal Mixer games I will feel ready to start a few more games.  Does the maximum number of games refer to total postal games?  Since I still have three Postal Mixer games, would I have to set my auto-postal max to 4 games to get paired by it?

Do you mind explaining the algorithm?  In particular, do you have a way of preferring pairings that aren't just the same ones over and over?  When thinking about the continuous tournament, I was definitely torn between wanting to make equal pairings on one hand, and wanting to provide variety of opponents on the other hand.

I wonder if your automated pairing will eventually become so good and so popular that it makes the Postal Mixer obsolete.
Title: Re: Auto Postal Pairing
Post by omar on Aug 8th, 2008, 10:07am

on 08/07/08 at 19:30:43, Fritzlein wrote:
This is a great feature.  I apologize that, although you signed up for mine, I haven't signed up for yours, yet.  Perhaps when I'm done with all my Postal Mixer games I will feel ready to start a few more games.  


No problem, many of the established players who still have postals going on have not signed up. I figure once the mixer wraps up more people will sign up.


Quote:
Does the maximum number of games refer to total postal games?  Since I still have three Postal Mixer games, would I have to set my auto-postal max to 4 games to get paired by it?

It refers to only the postals setup by the system. That way you don't have to keep adjusting it based on other postals you might be playing.


Quote:
Do you mind explaining the algorithm?  In particular, do you have a way of preferring pairings that aren't just the same ones over and over?  When thinking about the continuous tournament, I was definitely torn between wanting to make equal pairings on one hand, and wanting to provide variety of opponents on the other hand.

It's a very simple algorithm right now. Here is what it does.

Makes a list of all the players that want auto postal games and how many games they want. The players are sorted by rating in descending order.

Remove players from the list that already have auto postal games greater than or equal to what they want.

Go through each player in the list and try to pair them with the next player in the list if they are not already playing a postal game (auto or manual) and have not played a postal with each other for at least 25 days (auto or manual) and have a rating difference within 100 points. Also make sure the player has not already been paired. If the players can't be paired then try the next player in the list. If the list ends or rating difference is more than 100 points then no pair is possible for this first player; just move on to the next player.

So each player will only be paired for one game each time this program is run. Or may not be paired if close opponents are not available. The program is scheduled to run once a week.

I plan to setup another page which shows players that could not be paired and are waiting for opponents.


Quote:
I wonder if your automated pairing will eventually become so good and so popular that it makes the Postal Mixer obsolete.


I hope not. I know I will still sign up for the Mixer. I will probably keep 1 auto postal going at all time and sign up for 4 when the mixer comes up.
Title: Re: Auto Postal Pairing
Post by mistre on Aug 8th, 2008, 10:44am
I hope the postal mixer sticks around because it has a tournament atmosphere to it that is lacking in regular postal matches.

Omar, why not up the rating difference?  I have no problem playing postal matches with players more than 100 pts in either direction which is too narrow a difference in my opinion. At only 100 pts, Fritzlein could only be paired with RonWeasley and Chessandgo could not be paired at all!  I am thinking 300 pts would be a better number to use.
Title: Re: Auto Postal Pairing
Post by mistre on Aug 8th, 2008, 10:49am
Also, with this new system is there any reason to continue to allow players to create open games for postal play?

This will take away some of the clutter off the main page where there is always at least 5 open postal games waiting for players.  The players who sign up for these games are usually guests anyways and then the game doesn't get played.  Just ask Arimaa_Master.
Title: Re: Auto Postal Pairing
Post by ChrisB on Aug 8th, 2008, 12:29pm

on 08/08/08 at 10:44:47, mistre wrote:
Omar, why not up the rating difference?


I also favor significantly increasing the rating difference.

Perhaps a better solution, though, would be for the players to specify their own rating ranges.  (For example, an 1800 player desiring a closely matched opponent may specify 1700 to 1900, while a player willing to play anyone could specify 1000 to 3000.)  But, I'm not sure how easy it would be to implement player-specified ranges.
Title: Re: Auto Postal Pairing
Post by arimaa_master on Aug 8th, 2008, 12:35pm

on 08/08/08 at 10:49:49, mistre wrote:
Also, with this new system is there any reason to continue to allow players to create open games for postal play?

This will take away some of the clutter off the main page where there is always at least 5 open postal games waiting for players.  The players who sign up for these games are usually guests anyways and then the game doesn't get played.  Just ask Arimaa_Master.


I noticed that already recently that many of my postal games remains unseated.

I always thought that are all seated coz I didnīt look at all my games - I was looking always only at games where there were my move to play plus I always looked only at total postal games and when it drops then I thought that was ends some guest games and I started new one (just keep certain amount of my postal games in play).

But recently (just a couple of days ago) I noticed that there are already many games unseated thus I am doing some clean up now (not setting up new games) plus new unseated games will forfeit in less then 14 days - so hopefully in less then 14 days - there will be no more clutter in the game room (at least from my side).

Please accept my apologize that I didnīt notice earlier thus have caused that clutter.

Respect.
Title: Re: Auto Postal Pairing
Post by woh on Aug 9th, 2008, 3:14am

on 08/08/08 at 10:07:46, omar wrote:
It refers to only the postals setup by the system. That way you don't have to keep adjusting it based on other postals you might be playing.

I would prefer that all postal games are counted. When the Postal Mixer is going on I wouldn't want any extra postal games. The way it works now I would have to lower the number of games before the start of the Postal Mixer and then adjust it again as my Postal Mixer games end.


on 08/08/08 at 10:07:46, omar wrote:
... and have a rating difference within 100 points.

As mentioned by others a somewhat larger rating difference would be preferable.
Title: Re: Auto Postal Pairing
Post by woh on Aug 9th, 2008, 3:37am

on 08/08/08 at 10:44:47, mistre wrote:
I hope the postal mixer sticks around because it has a tournament atmosphere to it that is lacking in regular postal matches.

I agree on this.
Title: Re: Auto Postal Pairing
Post by omar on Aug 9th, 2008, 8:20am

on 08/08/08 at 10:44:47, mistre wrote:
Omar, why not up the rating difference?  I have no problem playing postal matches with players more than 100 pts in either direction which is too narrow a difference in my opinion. At only 100 pts, Fritzlein could only be paired with RonWeasley and Chessandgo could not be paired at all!  I am thinking 300 pts would be a better number to use.


Well I wanted this system to find only very close matches so that new players don't get paired with much better players and have a difficult time. But I've changed it to allow players to select up to 300 point difference.
Title: Re: Auto Postal Pairing
Post by mistre on Aug 11th, 2008, 10:59am
If I declined the auto-postal pairing the first time it popped up, how do I change my preferences?

Or will it pop up again on a scheduled date?
Title: Re: Auto Postal Pairing
Post by woh on Aug 11th, 2008, 12:19pm

on 08/11/08 at 10:59:26, mistre wrote:
If I declined the auto-postal pairing the first time it popped up, how do I change my preferences?

Or will it pop up again on a scheduled date?


In the gameroom menu select 'Settings' and 'Auto Postal' to set your preferences.
Title: Re: Auto Postal Pairing
Post by Tuks on Aug 11th, 2008, 12:59pm
thx omar, i think postal games will help me with longer time control games as well so hopefully i can improve even more!
Great Feature!

check out my game with Arif, i am doing surprisingly well!
(its unfinished)
Title: Re: Auto Postal Pairing
Post by mistre on Aug 11th, 2008, 1:29pm

on 08/11/08 at 12:19:26, woh wrote:
In the gameroom menu select 'Settings' and 'Auto Postal' to set your preferences.


Under 'Settings', I don't have an 'Auto Postal' selection, unless I am missing something...
Title: Re: Auto Postal Pairing
Post by woh on Aug 11th, 2008, 2:22pm

on 08/11/08 at 13:29:44, mistre wrote:
Under 'Settings', I don't have an 'Auto Postal' selection, unless I am missing something...

That's odd. Under Settings I get: Password - Account - Game Client - Auto Postal - Unrated Mode - Unrate Game. And just like you I declined the auto postal pairing when it first popped up.
Title: Re: Auto Postal Pairing
Post by mistre on Aug 11th, 2008, 2:48pm
That is odd, because after I logged back out and logged in, I saw it.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Auto Postal Pairing
Post by omar on Aug 11th, 2008, 7:00pm
Browser cache playing tricks on you :-) The navigation menu gets cached by the browser.
Title: Re: Auto Postal Pairing
Post by camelback on Dec 3rd, 2008, 5:13pm
Auto postal settings to select opponent range doesn't seem to work correctly.

I updated the range to 300 but again it shows 100. I've sent a mail to Omar.
Title: Re: Auto Postal Pairing
Post by omar on Dec 3rd, 2008, 7:04pm
Thanks for letting me know camelback; I had a typo in the field name so it wasn't getting saved. Fixed it.


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