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        Arimaa >> Site Discussion >> To Omar about clueless2009 rating.
        
(Message started by: Arimabuff on May 19^th, 2009, 4:45am)

Title: To Omar about clueless2009 rating.
Post by Arimabuff on May 19^th, 2009, 4:45am

You gave this bot a rating of 1300, which can be a deterrent to experienced players and a bad surprise to anyone expecting an easy bot.

This bot is stronger than Bomb, which has been hovering around 2000 for the last 4 years. I believe you can give it a 2000 initial rating without upsetting anything.

Thanks for these bots anyway, they are great! :)

Title: Re: To Omar about clueless2009 rating.
Post by aaaa on May 19^th, 2009, 7:03am

I propose that the CC, Fast and Blitz versions of every new bot get the rating it ended up with right after all the official games it played (championship, challenge qualifiers. challenge).

Title: Re: To Omar about clueless2009 rating.
Post by omar on May 23^rd, 2009, 8:04am

Thanks for the reminder. I updated the ratings.

Will try to get some of the other bots on today.

Title: Re: To Omar about clueless2009 rating.
Post by Tuks on May 23^rd, 2009, 11:59am

your going to add them to the bot ladder right? its been a while since i have had work up it :)

Title: Re: To Omar about clueless2009 rating.
Post by mistre on May 23^rd, 2009, 2:49pm

Gnobot2009 probably deserves at least an 1800 rating - not 1300.

Title: Re: To Omar about clueless2009 rating.
Post by omar on May 24^th, 2009, 6:33pm

on 05/23/09 at 11:59:17, Tuks wrote:

your going to add them to the bot ladder right? its been a while since i have had work up it :)

I probably won't add them to the ladder since it already has a lot of bots on it. I am thinking of keeping the ladder as it is now; it has bots at various skill levels serves as a good challenge for beginners. The advanced players know how to access the other bots that are available.

Title: Re: To Omar about clueless2009 rating.
Post by tize on May 25^th, 2009, 2:21am

Quote:

I agree that the current ladder doesn't need any more bots, and that it is a good challange for the beginners. But I think that adding Clueless would be nice as it is the current champion, maybe not adding the crippled versions but the fast and/or blitz versions.

Title: Re: To Omar about clueless2009 rating.
Post by Arimabuff on May 25^th, 2009, 7:35am

on 05/25/09 at 02:21:17, tize wrote:

Which versions are you calling crippled? Fast and blitz are the only ones that time out, which can be an inconvenience for the bot ladder.

Title: Re: To Omar about clueless2009 rating.
Post by tize on May 25^th, 2009, 8:54am

It's the p1 and p2 versions, because these versions don't allow the bot to play as good as it could, thus making the bot play with a handicap.

Title: Re: To Omar about clueless2009 rating.
Post by Tuks on May 30^th, 2009, 12:49pm

i hope the ladder adds the strongest new bots, maybe in exchange we can take out one or two of the really weak ones that people learn how to beat in one or two games, i dont really like the idea of having lots and lots of people who can finish the ladder but the new clueless and gnobot would pose a problem for these newbies :)

Title: Re: To Omar about clueless2009 rating.
Post by Fritzlein on May 30^th, 2009, 1:42pm

I agree with Tuks that the ladder should have the strongest bot in it, and I agree with Omar that the ladder doesn't need any more bots in it. It makes sense to swap in some new ones and swap out some old ones. However, I don't think we should take out the weakest bots to make room at the top. Instead we should thin out bots to make a long learning curve, and keep a wide variety.

I used to think that the lower ladder bots were just in the way. I thought that when Omar added ArimaaScoreP1 and ArimaaScoreP2 to be below ShallowBlue that it was going to waste everyone's time. It has turned out, however, that some people legitimately lose to those bots, and not just on their very first play. Some of the people who play on this site are children, and it is fun for them to have some low rungs at the bottom of the ladder.

I think rather that the middle of the ladder could be thinned out a bit. We don't necessarily need four versions of every bot (P1, P2, Fast, and Blitz) in the ladder. We could have some bot at P1 and not P2, while another bot is at P2 and not P1. Same with Fast and Blitz.

Mainly the ladder is not for people who can beat every bot, it is for people who can't beat every bot and need a benchmark for their progress.

Title: Re: To Omar about clueless2009 rating.
Post by omar on Jun 3^rd, 2009, 4:49pm

Swapping out some bots would be good. The ladder is mostly as a challenge for new players. The very best bots are the CC bots, but I don't have them on the ladder any more because they take to long to move; but they are accessible from the bots page. I would like to remove bots that take longer than a minute to move. Also bots that time out. I don't mind having P1 and P2 bots there because they are usually good enough to win against new players and they serve as benchmarks because their performance won't change as the hardware get faster.

Title: Re: To Omar about clueless2009 rating.
Post by mistre on Jun 5^th, 2009, 1:28pm

I liked the ladder better when the bots were separated into groups - Beginner, P1, P2, Fast, Blitz, CC. I liked it because it gave some explanation as to the different bot styles and why some were harder than others. I doubt newcomers even know what P1 and P2 mean now. I propose we bring this back and replace CC with the newest and best bots (say the top 5) - regardless of speed.

If this can't be done, maybe on the bots available to play list - it could be broken up by speed - as it is now - it is really confusing trying to find a specific bot to play. Also, some of those bots like ArimaaScorep3 and Bombp3 don't even work and shouldn't be on the list.

Finally I would like to see new bots like Badger and Marwin join the ladder.

Title: Re: To Omar about clueless2009 rating.
Post by tize on Jun 6^th, 2009, 6:46am

The bots which play on the ladder runs on the arimaa server. And Marwin only play from my computer, that is Marwin will not be able to be added to the ladder. At least not until he has made a try in the computer challenge, so maybe next year.