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        Arimaa >> Site Discussion >> it's hard to play other players
        
(Message started by: Sanzo on May 14^th, 2010, 1:30pm)

Title: it's hard to play other players
Post by Sanzo on May 14^th, 2010, 1:30pm

This is one thing i don't like of this site. Often when i log in there are about 10-15 people online, but i have no way to say to them "hello everyone, who wants to play?", and then negotiate on the time control. Yes, there is the chat, but noone is there. If i want to play a human i have to start challanging the people online one by one and wait for them to usually not respond.

On most other game sites there is a lobby with chat that people automatically join when they login, I think this would favor playing a lot.

Title: Re: it's hard to play other players
Post by Arimabuff on May 14^th, 2010, 2:19pm

The chat room fulfils that role. What you're asking for is tantamount for it to be open automatically instead of being optional. I am not sure if people would like that, I know I wouldn't.

Title: Re: it's hard to play other players
Post by Fritzlein on May 14^th, 2010, 2:34pm

Sanzo, I'm afraid that part of the problem is that the people who are logged in don't want to play. They may only be making moves in their postal games and catching up on the Forum. They may only want to play bots. They may be away from the keyboard and thus unavailable for a game. In all of these cases, having the player automatically in the chat room wouldn't create more games; you would still have trouble finding an opponent.

There is, however, a feature that lets you know exactly who does want to play, namely the invite flag. The players who have a green "i" next to their name are seeking games, so you can focus on them instead of broadcasting to everyone.

Probably what you are looking for is mostly that there be more humans that want to play humans, as opposed to needing an easier invitation mechanism. I am not sure how to encourage this. There used to be a Player of the Month competition that rewarded human vs. human play. Unfortunately that was abused by ArifSyed, so Omar suspended the contest. I personally would be in favor of bringing back the contest and merely stopping the abuser.

The Arimaa World League is a great step in the direction of more HvH games, but unfortunately it only produces six games every two weeks. We could use more than that.

Another idea from the past that we could revive is one-day tournaments on Saturdays, four rounds back-to-back. Omar has created a nice tournament manager tool to make such events easier. Would you be interested in playing a one-day tournament? Would you be interested in running one?

Title: Re: it's hard to play other players
Post by novacat on May 14^th, 2010, 3:20pm

Another option is using the player availability section of the forums. It is currently underused, but it would be helpful if more people post their general availabilities.

Alternately, if it is not too hard to add a schedule link to a player's profile, we could have an optional publicly visible schedule for each player. Of course many players may choose not to reveal this info as it is important in determining rosters for the World League and setting up competitive games.

Title: Re: it's hard to play other players
Post by Manuel on May 15^th, 2010, 5:47am

on 05/14/10 at 14:34:00, Fritzlein wrote:

There is, however, a feature that lets you know exactly who does want to play, namely the invite flag. The players who have a green "i" next to their name are seeking games, so you can focus on them instead of broadcasting to everyone.

It is a pity, though, that some people tend to have this flag on but do not respond to invites. I guess that this is because for new players the flag is automatically put on, and they are not aware that they should put it off.

Title: Re: it's hard to play other players
Post by omar on May 15^th, 2010, 8:37am

I considered the possibility of having a lobby chat that automatically opens and stays there. Some people would like it, but others would find it annoying and distracting. I think the root problem is as Karl mentioned that we just don't have enough people online at the same time that want to play interactive games.

Chess clubs in the real world get around this problem by having weekly meetings. If everyone knows that others are going be there at a specific time then chances of finding someone to play against are much higher. The downside is that you have to adjust your schedule to the meeting time and can't just play whenever you want.

At one point Karl was running what we called a "Continuous Tournament" every week where anyone who wanted to play could sign up in advance and he paired the games and the scheduling tool was used to setup the game time. This helped to get more interactive games goings on a weekly basis. I think we need to do something like this again, but less structured and more like a club.

Quote:

Another idea from the past that we could revive is one-day tournaments on Saturdays, four rounds back-to-back. Omar has created a nice tournament manager tool to make such events easier. Would you be interested in playing a one-day tournament? Would you be interested in running one?

Setting up one weekend day during a specified time range for interactive games I think is a good idea. People can get together during this time to play games, chat, and watch games; basically like an online club meeting. During this time we can also have what I will call "Club Games". They are different than casual games in that the players will not get to select their opponents and the pairing will be done by a program. These games would have the event field set to "Club Game 2010" and can help to build the WHRE rating.

I don't think we can have it depend on any one person running it. Maybe there will be a few people who can run it, but they can rotate based on availability. Also having it structured as a tournament I think will reduce the participation since it requires a bit of commitment on the players. Showing up to play one interactive games on a weekend day is possible for many people, but playing in a round robin with even just 3 rounds would require not scheduling anything else on that day.

I've been meaning to get something like this started this summer after the World League games finished. If there is enough interest, I can get it started sooner and initially run it every other week when the World Leagues games are not going on.

I can definitely serve as club coordinator on some weeks.

Title: Re: it's hard to play other players
Post by Sconibulus on May 15^th, 2010, 3:41pm

In response to this club play idea, would it require signing up in advance to play, or would it be something like "Anyone interested meet in the chatroom at X:00, pairings will be made by X:15, and all games should start by X:30."

Title: Re: it's hard to play other players
Post by omar on May 15^th, 2010, 7:25pm

We can use the tournament tool to allow interested players to register, but the registration will be shortly before the games start not days in advance. So it's like what you said, but to make the coordinators life a bit easier you express your interest in playing by using the tournament tool to register. A link to register would be provided with an announcement in the gameroom.

Title: Re: it's hard to play other players
Post by Korhil on Jun 29^th, 2010, 1:44pm

I've found success offering to start Postal games with many people. I just try to keep many Postal games open so that I usually have a game to move in.
The problem with Arimaa as an interactive game, is that even short time controls tend to result in a game that lasts more than 30mins - more than a persons break during work hours. Contrasting to a 5min game of Chess which wont take more than 10mins of real time.

It would be a nice feature to add a chat box of sorts to the invation window. Sometimes when I'm offered a game, and have to decline I'd like to be able to discuss what other time of day could work.

Cheers,
Martin

Title: Re: it's hard to play other players
Post by rozencrantz on Jun 30^th, 2010, 3:34pm

I don't know if this is possible here, or if it could be implemented, but I find it's easy to get a game on IG Game Center, if I don't care who I play. I can open a window and leave it in the background, listen for the ping when someone joins. If nobody joins when I want to play, I close the game and it drops off the list.

Title: Re: it's hard to play other players
Post by omar on Jul 1^st, 2010, 7:35am

Sounds like a good idea; thanks for the suggestion. I've made a note to add a sound when opponent joins the game.

Title: Re: it's hard to play other players
Post by Nombril on Jul 1^st, 2010, 10:16am

Rozencrantz, not sure if the creating an "open" game was your question, or just having the sound if someone sat down at the table. Omar has answered about the sound, but I thought I would double check if you were aware that under "Play Now" the "Start Game" option will allow you to create an Open Game that anyone logged into the gameroom can see and join if they want to. (Unless you have set some rating ranges.)

Title: Re: it's hard to play other players
Post by rozencrantz on Jul 2^nd, 2010, 12:14am

Actually, the bits I wasn't sure about were the sound, and the ability to drop a game cleanly if nobody bites.

Title: Re: it's hard to play other players
Post by omar on Jul 2^nd, 2010, 9:12am

on 07/02/10 at 00:14:18, rozencrantz wrote:

Actually, the bits I wasn't sure about were the sound, and the ability to drop a game cleanly if nobody bites.

If no one joins, you can just close the game window and if it is an interactive game, it will be removed automatically.

I add sounds to the JavaScript client when a player enters the games, leaves the game and when a chat message comes in.

Try sending a test chat to see if you have the new versions. If not try reloading the game client window. In Chrome you can right click in the game window and select reload.

Title: Re: it's hard to play other players
Post by JoeHead on Jul 15^th, 2010, 10:37am

One way to make "play room" is to have it like this web site.

http://www.playok.com/

I play there a lot. Nice and very easy java client. Nice boards for games... Really easy. Moves get sent instantenously so 1min chess games are not problem.

But one things is still here - you need at least 30 active players for this room to work well without waiting.