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Title: Going Global Post by megajester on Jan 14th, 2011, 4:30pm I think it's great to see how arimaa.com has drawn a very international crowd. It's something we can be proud of as a community. However for Arimaa to achieve the heights I'm sure we all agree it deserves, I think we may need to think a bit more about how to cater for the non-English speaking world. As a native English speaker myself, I would just like to add that I have absolute confidence in everybody's good intentions. Our community has succeeded in transcending national barriers, and I have never heard a word out of anyone that would suggest otherwise. The simple fact is, we are a small community that started in an English-speaking country. This situation was unavoidable. However as time goes by we could keep this topic in the back of our minds, to come up with practical, realistic ways to help bridge the gap. Just to make my point, I made a graph of the distribution of nationalities in this year's WC: http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad104/istanbulluingiliz/ProportionofWCParticipantsbyCountry.jpg We are international, this is true. But we are still overwhelmingly American. It's even starker when you figure in the fact that the Australians and Canadians don't have to learn a foreign language either: http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad104/istanbulluingiliz/ProportionofWCParticipantsbyCountry-ENGNONENG.jpg We are clearly not reaching our potential. If you look at the distribution of chess grandmasters, for instance... http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad104/istanbulluingiliz/ProportionofGrandmastersbyCountry.jpg (based on data from nationmaster.com) Now you could say that there are lots of reasons for this. However I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with the language barrier. Granted that English is the undisputed lingua franca of the internet, and it will be for at least the rest of our lifetimes. People are put off from shogi because all the pieces have foreign characters written on them, even though there is an abundance of literature, web forums and game sites all in English, showing you how to play in English and pairing you with English-speaking opponents. In Arimaa's case we have the reverse. The rules are available on Wikipedia in many languages (this is a major achievement) and the pieces could not be simpler. But it stops there. As I say, we are a small community and we can't do everything. But some practical, realistic suggestions could help bridge the gap. For example, people could volunteer as "mentors" for users in certain languages. Just this evening I used the "Local Players" function to check out how many Turks have registered with the site, and sent them all a quick message asking them how they found the game and if they needed any help with the site. Those who wanted to volunteer could specify which languages they can speak well, and then during registration we could ask new users which language(s) they are most comfortable with. For something a little more comprehensive: Would it be possible to set something up whereby anybody who wants to can translate the standard text lines from the game client, the gameroom etc. into their own language? People who wanted it could then select that language in their settings. Also we could perhaps help people to add closed captions on the "How to play Arimaa" video (I have some more detailed ideas on how to make this easier). That way somebody who just wanted to give the game a try could do so without needing any English. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by The_Jeh on Jan 14th, 2011, 5:37pm In the chat rooms at Arty Sandler's site, iggamecenter.com, there is an auto-translator that puts a small icon at the beginning of each chat message. Clicking this icon will instantly translate the message into whatever language the user has chosen. (Clicking again toggles the message back to the original.) I can't count all the times I have enjoyed the convenience of that feature. I don't know the details of its implementation, but most major languages are supported. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by rbarreira on Jan 14th, 2011, 5:58pm I would certainly be willing to translate the gameroom messages to Portuguese if Omar wants to get the gameroom localized. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Eltripas on Jan 14th, 2011, 6:20pm on 01/14/11 at 17:58:05, rbarreira wrote:
Same here for Spanish |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Jan 14th, 2011, 7:05pm on 01/14/11 at 17:37:36, The_Jeh wrote:
This sort of thing is indeed very useful and I think implementing that here could work very well. But as a professional translator I can't stress enough how important it is that any permanent text be translated or at the very least proofread by a human. Check out this article (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63853K20100409) for a cautionary tale. It's fine for chat, but woefully inadequate for anything more permanent. I had written some translation tips (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Translation_tips) to go with the "Learn to play Arimaa" video. Have a read if you're interested. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Jan 19th, 2011, 5:34am Just a thought about how to internationalize the "How to play Arimaa" video that's on the arimaa.com homepage. Initially we had wanted to redub the video in each language, but I seem to remember Eltripas having a go at the Spanish video only to get bogged down with the synchronization... Youtube has a transcription function which automatically generates subtitles for a video. Although the resulting transcription is hilarious, it does spit out a file with the correct times. All you need to do is change the text for each subtitle... So if I were to set up a page, a bit like my sample translation table at the bottom of this page (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Translation_tips), where all you have to do is write the translation in your language next to each line in English, how many people would be prepared to give it a go? That way I could very easily upload it to Youtube as closed captions for each language. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Eltripas on Jan 19th, 2011, 6:33pm on 01/19/11 at 05:34:46, megajester wrote:
Synchronization was an issue indeed but I finished the video and uploaded it to the ftp but I didn't made the titles I guess that's why is not posted in the youtube channel, I'm not sure if it has the quality to feature there even with the titles though. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by arimaa_master on Jan 20th, 2011, 7:59am on 01/19/11 at 05:34:46, megajester wrote:
You can count me in. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by rbarreira on Jan 20th, 2011, 8:38am on 01/20/11 at 07:59:51, arimaa_master wrote:
Me too, but I don't guarantee I'll have time to do it in the next month. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Jan 20th, 2011, 9:43am OK I will get such a page set up in the next couple of days. Thanks a lot guys! @Eltripas, I hadn't realized you had uploaded it to the ftp. I'll check it and probably be uploading it in the next couple of days. So that means we've got: Spanish, by Eltripas Czech, by arimaa_master, and Portuguese, by rbarreira Any more takers? All languages are needed but French, German and Russian would be particularly good languages to have. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Eltripas on Jan 20th, 2011, 8:30pm on 01/20/11 at 09:43:23, megajester wrote:
Thanks, If you think that it doesn't have enough quality to feature it's ok, also I can put the video on the English titled video so at least has some titles, most people know enough English to understand those simple titles on screen. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Jan 21st, 2011, 12:52pm on 01/20/11 at 20:30:20, Eltripas wrote:
Your video's excellent! It's true there is a little bit of a hiss on it, but I don't think it's so bad. All I need now is a translation of the following so I can upload to Youtube "Learn to play Arimaa" (or whatever you think would be a nice title in Spanish) "The rules are simple and intuitive. Even if you've never learned how to play Chess, you can learn to play Arimaa in just five minutes. It can be played with a standard Chess set." And then some keywords, such as the Spanish for: arimaa, rules, gaming, board, game, how, play, simple, intuitive, chess |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by omar on Jan 21st, 2011, 2:40pm Wow, I didn't realize how dominant English was on our site. But I guess it makes sense; it does cater mostly to English speaking people. There is a 'Language' drop down on the main page which allows people to select other languages. It used to map to an automatic translator, but now I've mapped it to the Arimaa wiki page in other languages. Contributing to the Arimaa wiki page in other languages is also a good way to globalize Arimaa. We do get many referrers from Wikipedia, so I'm sure people are reading those pages. Chrome seems to have language translation built into the browser. I've often been able to surf non-English sites with Chrome. I don't know if it translates from English to other languages though. But translating the rules videos in other languages would be a great way to help more people learn it. I've made a note to add a 'Preferred Language' option to the players profile page. This will require some changes in the database as well. I probably won't get to implementing it till after the events. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Jan 22nd, 2011, 2:08am I think that judicious use of things such as Google Translate (that does translate from English into other languages, by the way) can be useful. However before we run away with the idea that this will solve all our problems, I would just like to show you what happens when you take the German "Arimaa" page on Wikipedia and feed it through Google Translate (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FArimaa). Look how it explains pushing: "A player can use two steps of a train to figure with an adjoining stronger own figure to drive an enemy. For example, sell its own dog, a rabbit or opposing an opponent's cat, but no dog, no horse, no camel, no elephants." Believe me, it's no better the other way. And this is German, a "cousin language" of English. It's appreciably worse even with French. And Google Translate in Turkish almost qualifies as a complete waste of time. So as I said, machine translation will do for chat. Just about. But we would do well to get a human to at least proofread any permanent text. Or in the case of a draft prepared by Google Translate, start from scratch. If we can't find the personnel from within the Arimaa community, I'm sure you could find some trainee translators who would be only too happy to put on their CV that they were "commissioned to translate the official website of Arimaa, a famous abstract strategy game." |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Eltripas on Jan 23rd, 2011, 6:51pm on 01/21/11 at 12:52:32, megajester wrote:
I've uploaded a new video now with titles (in English but it's better that way that with no titles at all, a lot of people can understand written English ), also here is what you asked: “Learn to play Arimaa” Aprende a jugar Arimaa “The rules are simple and intuitive. Even if you've never learned how to play Chess, you can learn to play Arimaa in just five minutes. It can be played with a standard Chess set." Las reglas son simples e intuitivas. Incluso si tú nunca has jugado Ajedrez, tú puedes aprender a jugar Arimaa en solo cinco minutos. Puede ser jugado con piezas y tablero de ajedrez comunes. And then some keywords, such as the Spanish for: arimaa, rules, gaming, board, game, how, play, simple, intuitive, chess Arrima, reglas, tablero, juego, cómo, jugar, simple, intuitivo, Ajedrez, juegos de mesa. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Jan 24th, 2011, 8:08am on 01/23/11 at 18:51:41, Eltripas wrote:
Excellent. I'll get round to it ASAP. By the way, if you want me to I can add the headers as annotations if you just give me the Spanish for each one. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Eltripas on Jan 24th, 2011, 9:34am on 01/24/11 at 08:08:42, megajester wrote:
0:32 Strongest – Más fuertes 0:37 to weakest – Más débiles 1:01 4 Traps - 4 Trampas 1:17 Set up- Colocación inicial 1:21 Over 64 million!- ¡Más de 64 millones! 1:56 Left, right, foward or back – Izquierda, derecha, adelante o atrás. 2:02 Left, right, or foward– Izquierda, derecha o adelante. 2:13 4 Steps – 4 Movimientos 2:29 Freezing- Congelación 2:47 Pushing- Empujar 3:08 Pulling- Jalar 3:47 Capturing- Captura 4:11 Elimination- Eliminación 4:19 Immobilization- Inmovilización 4:26 Repetition- Repetición Creditos Escrito por: Fritz Juhnke Narrado por: Joel Thomas Editado por: Kal Syed Jugador plateado: Katie Hoody Jugador dorado: Fritz Juhnke Selección de música: Kenneth Chua Key Grip: ¿Qué es un key grip de cualquier manera? Diseño: Omar y Aamir Syed Agradecimientos especiales a: Zephyr Geist Patrick Dudek Ned Bent Vladan Majerech Eric Momsen Jeff Bacher Greg Magne Ivan Moreno Emaad Syed Copyright: 2010 Arimaa Todos los derechos reservados. Para más información visita arimaa.com Tu misión si decides aceptarla Escribir un software que derrote a los 3 mejores humanos en un desafío oficial de Arimaa para el 2020. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Jan 24th, 2011, 2:24pm Check it out! Learn to play Arimaa en Español (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgD5awYQXtY)! (Eltripas, could you just double check the bits at the end, I had to wing it a bit on the credits.) EDIT: I have set up a Google spreadsheet (https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Al-DRVzoDwKsdDVCYWRwNzZnYS1vZjh6aWtia2wzTXc&hl=en&authkey=CMznrIoF) for anyone who wants to create subtitles in their language for the video. The way it works is, you copy the Template column into a blank column and then write over the top of the English. Of course, let me know if you'll be starting in your language. You may also find these translation tips (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Translation_tips) useful. PS: Ricardo, the Portuguese column is already prepared... |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Fritzlein on Jan 24th, 2011, 4:10pm Major cool. I watched the whole thing even though I don't know any Spanish. I hope this gets linked from all the Spanish AI blogs... |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by arimaa_master on Jan 25th, 2011, 7:12am on 01/24/11 at 14:24:57, megajester wrote:
I have just started the Czech column - it will be a bit more work than I thought. However I will try to finish it asap. I will be happy if any other Czech members (Hippo?) will help with this translation. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Hippo on Jan 25th, 2011, 4:33pm on 01/25/11 at 07:12:29, arimaa_master wrote:
OK, I am changing it (a lot), if you feel your translation better revert it back :) ... I do sometimes rather free translation, ... Especially I have changed meaning in ... Rabbit could be TRANSPOSED back by opponent ... FROZEN ... BIND IMMOBILIZATION ... wins the game ... unless you lose according to one of the already mentioned reasons. Tykat nebo vykat? |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by DonEsteban on Jan 25th, 2011, 5:04pm I have started (and, in fact, almost finished) a German version. You're welcome to check and correct it. Time permitting I'd be happy to do German translations for the web page, too. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Jan 26th, 2011, 9:49am OK just so we do this in an organised fashion... When a language is ready to be added, please change the header to read "[Insert language here] - READY" And please don't forget to add your name on the "Subtitles by:" line. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by rbarreira on Jan 26th, 2011, 10:06am I started on the Portuguese version already! I'm using a semi-informal writing tone, I think it's more in line with the style of the video. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Jan 26th, 2011, 10:52am I should just mention that when there are two boxes underneath a timestamp, you don't have to use both boxes. In fact, in most cases it will be better to use just the first box underneath the timestamp and leave the second empty. The reason is that if the text in the first box ends up being longer than fits on the screen, the line will break, making a second line with only one or two words in it. Then the second box will be shifted to the third line. For example, there is this two-line subtitle in English: Box 1: to show that humans can still outsmart computers Box 2: and so far the humans are still dominating! Which I rendered in Turkish as: Box 1: insan?n bilgisayara göre üstünlü?ünü kan?tlamakt? ve ?imdiye dek Box 2: Arimaa'da insanlar hâlâ bilgisayar?n can?na okuyor However the text in the first box was too long so on the video it looks like this: Line 1: insan?n bilgisayara göre üstünlü?ünü kan?tlamakt? ve ?imdiye Line 2: dek Line 3: Arimaa'da insanlar hâlâ bilgisayar?n can?na okuyor What I should have done was put the text in the same box so it could look like this: Line 1: insan?n bilgisayara göre üstünlü?ünü kan?tlamakt? ve ?imdiye Line 2: dek Arimaa'da insanlar hâlâ bilgisayar?n can?na okuyor I'm not going to bother with it now, but you see what I mean... PS: The only reason I uploaded it so fast was because I copied it over from my script... |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Hippo on Jan 26th, 2011, 12:01pm OK, I consider czech version ready unless arimaa_master complains. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Jan 26th, 2011, 4:48pm on 01/26/11 at 12:01:30, Hippo wrote:
Subtitles are uploaded. Thanks Jan and Vladan! So that's four languages now! We are on our way... |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by DonEsteban on Jan 27th, 2011, 6:10am German version's ready. If it matters: There were two typos in the English text (maybe you want to do a version for the impaired): 125: or anything in between 208: its friends are pushed or pulled away, or |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Jan 27th, 2011, 9:45am on 01/27/11 at 06:10:22, DonEsteban wrote:
Thanks! It's now uploaded. Also thanks for the heads up on the typos. I have corrected them. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Hippo on Jan 27th, 2011, 5:20pm Where could we watch the video with czech subtitles? |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Eltripas on Jan 27th, 2011, 7:04pm I wonder if I should do a Spanish version or if the one with Spanish audio is enough? on 01/27/11 at 17:20:25, Hippo wrote:
You can watch the video here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjwid2Q4PY8) |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Jan 28th, 2011, 12:25am Hopefully Omar will be able to write a bit of code for the embedded video on the homepage that will force subtitles to open when you click on that language. Eltripas, if you want you can prepare the Spanish subtitles and I will upload them to both the Spanish and English videos. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Hippo on Jan 28th, 2011, 3:53am megajester sorry for letting you update it once again ... ... I have watched the czech subtitled version and I have changed spreadsheet in four places. We use word pull for general moves in desk games. That lead to may be confusing ... "although rabbit's owner could not pull it back" rather to "step it back". The subtitle FREEZING should be probably fully in uppercase. Repetition had long subtitles split on two lines. I have changed them also. "appeared" moved to next row and finally "mostly it only DENYES repeat undoing moves" That's all, thanks for cooperation :) Oh 2 more changes ... STRONGEST ... WEAKEST in spreadsheet, STRONGEST ... TO WEAKEST on video I have changed to FROM STRONGEST ... TO WEAKEST in spreadshhet (in CZECH version) And I hope the last ... line split at silver reacting on initial gold setup One more ... LEFT, RIGHT, BACK FORWARD -> does not correstpond to video subtitles ... LEFT, RIGHT, FORWARD OR BACK --------------- It's all from me now. The vidoe subtitles does not correspond with the spreadsheet's in general in the two cases ... "to WEAKEST" and the step order ... so it may confuse other translators as well. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Jan 28th, 2011, 5:34am Czech subtitles updated. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by leo on Feb 3rd, 2011, 5:55am I remember a discussion years ago about how cool it would be to multilang the site -- and how difficult it would be to keep it up to date through upgrades and changes :D I sure can help with French translation, I'll start with the intro video I suppose. The fr wikipedia article should be updated too, it was left as I translated it years ago. (How lazy are the other French speakers, eh!) Are there any tools I need for the subtitles, or do I just read them and translate on a text file? |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Hippo on Feb 3rd, 2011, 7:48am on 02/03/11 at 05:55:29, leo wrote:
on 01/24/11 at 14:24:57, megajester wrote:
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by leo on Feb 4th, 2011, 5:13am Ha, thank you Hippo! I feel stupid for not having seen that. Spreadsheet powah. Edit: I've started translating the french column but when I want to close the window I'm always told the changes will be lost. They aren't though when I come back to the page. To be safer maybe I should work on a downloaded version, hoping I can paste from it to the web app later. Edit 2: I've finished the rough french translation. Proofreaders are welcome. Is it ok to translate "Friends don't let friends get frozen" by "Friends keep each other warm" and "Friends don't let friends get captured" by "Friends don't let each other down" which appeared lighter in French and probably clear enough in the context - but I'm not sure. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Hippo on Feb 4th, 2011, 7:17am on 02/04/11 at 05:13:53, leo wrote:
If it sounds best in French ... why not. I have used fetter rather than frozen in czech translation so warming would be confusing there :). I am not sure if I used "die" or "capture". |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Fritzlein on Feb 4th, 2011, 9:35am on 02/04/11 at 05:13:53, leo wrote:
I expect a literal translation is not best. The English is a little weird because it is a play on "Friends don't let friends drive drunk," which was an advertising campaign to reduce drunk driving in the United States. If it weren't for that cultural reference, I would have written the script differently in the first place. But since the cultural reference can't be translated at all, the actual text probably shouldn't be literally translated either. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Feb 4th, 2011, 9:54am The profession commonly known as "translation" basically consists of making these kinds of decisions all day for a living. (Why do you think I keep banging on about the uselessness of Google Translate :) ). One instructor we had told us to think of translation as repacking books from a wide, shallow box into a tall, narrow one. You MUST fit all the books in, in this sense you are restricted. But you are COMPLETELY FREE to place the books in whatever position you like. It doesn't matter which one's on top, which one's at the bottom, where they were in the first box, so long as they all fit. The books represent the "content", both the thoughts contained in and the emotions and impressions created by the text. These MUST be included in the translation at all costs! The positioning of the books represents the "form", the specific words, sentences, expressions and structures used and their sequencing. You are COMPLETELY FREE to make changes to these things to achieve your goal of "fitting the books in". In fact, trying to copy the "form" of the original often results in a bad translation of the "content", usually sacrificing the emotions of the text. If you look closely at my back-translation of the Turkish version of the video on my translation tips page (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Translation_tips) I hope you'll get an idea of how all this works. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by omar on Feb 5th, 2011, 6:12pm Wow, that's a great analogy. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by leo on Feb 6th, 2011, 4:14am @Hippo: Warming fetters would make hot links :P @Fritzlein: Ha, the sentences did look somewhat idiomatic to me, although I couldn't nail it down of course. @Megajester: Sometimes it's a bit like putting squares into round boxes too :P I did read your Translation Tips last year but I'll read them again. Thank you guys for the help. I'll sleep one more night over the translation and get back to it with fresh eyes and do so again until I can file it as Ready. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Feb 7th, 2011, 8:31am on 02/04/11 at 09:35:45, Fritzlein wrote:
Ohhhhh really? That would explain a certain scene in Groundhog Day... :) Goodness me, there must be a whole swath of expressions I "know" from films (and a childhood spend watching Sesame Street) that I don't fully grasp... |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Feb 7th, 2011, 8:33am on 02/06/11 at 04:14:54, leo wrote:
Dont forget to change the "Subtitles by:" credit at the end ;) |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by chessandgo on Feb 25th, 2011, 6:18am hey, good job with the translation Léo! I got a few very minor suggestions: - "L'Arimaa"; I think we could just say "Arimaa". I know it's "les échecs, le go, le monopoly" but I think with recent(?) english-named games we often go without the déterminant "Risk, Starcraft, Hex". What do you think? - "jeu de stratégie de type abstrait." J'ai changé pour : "jeu de stratégie abstrait." au vu des résultats google. - "L'Arimaa est un jeu de stratégie de type abstrait. Un défi de programmation doté d'un prix de 10.000$ lui est associé, ainsi qu'un tournoi annuel homme-machine." I think we could also shorten it a bit, like: "Arimaa est un jeu de stratégie abstrait avec un (défi/challenge) de programmation doté d'un prix de 10.000$ et un (tournoi/match) annuel homme-machine." Si l'idée est de faire une vidéo voix française, on aura même besoin de raccourcir beaucoup plus je pense. "Arimaa est un jeu de stratégie abstrait avec un challenge de programmation pour 10.000$ et un match annuel homme-machine." par exemple ? J'ai une petite préférence pour match, tournoi implique plus qu'il y a plusieurs humain et plusieurs machines qui participent, là c'est plus du "1 contre 1" (enfin du "équipe contre 1"). Tu en penses quoi ? - "pas": I think it could also be "mouvement", "pas" doesn't seem natural to me in the context of a game. (I see the wikipedia page has "pas" as well, I suppose we should go with the standard word, but mouvement does really fit more to my ears). - "Une pièce ne peut y être capturée" J'ai changé pour "Une pièce ne peut être capturée" au vu de la suite. - "Le joueur Or débute le jeu en plaçant ses pièces": J'ai changé pour "Le joueur Or débute la partie en plaçant ses pièces" - "de la façon qu'il veut" How about "comme il le désire"? - "Après avoir observé le placement du joueur Or": The French translation is always much longer than the English version, which is normal since French is a much more wordy language :) but maybe we could go for something shorter here, like "Quand le joueur Or a terminé"? Ah, et est-ce qu'on devrait dire "le joueur Or/Argent" ou "Or/Argent" tout seul? - "Cette possibilité de réagir au placement adverse etc": How about "Pouvoir réagir (au / en fonction du) placement adverse compense l'avantage du premier coup du joueur Or"? Still trying to shorten, if we go for the voiced thing it's going to be hard to follow english's pace. - "En fait les diagonales n'ont pas d'utilité dans le jeu d'Arimaa" How about "Les diagonales ne comptent pas à Arimaa"? - Actually, for the voice thing (not the subtitles), wouldn't it be fine to just remove the sentence "that's why the board isn't checkered!", to be able to catch-up with the faster English pace? Unless I'm missing something about the meaning of this sentence (I most certainly am actually, I wouldn't have been able to come up with any kind of translation). - "ou tout autre partage entre ces deux extrêmes." How about "ou toute autre répartition"? - "elle ne peut pas se déplacer" changed to "elle ne peut pas bouger", two syllables less, please change it back if the original translation sounds better though :) - "à moins qu'elle n'ait une pièce amie pour voisine orthogonalement.": ou alors "à moins qu'elle ne soit adjacente orthogonalement à une pièce amie"? Hmmm peut-etre pas. "pour voisine orthogonalement." me fait un peu bizarre, mais je ne sais pas comment dire autrement :) - "Les pièces amies se tiennent chaud!" Man, I so love this one. French owned English there :p - "reculer de soi-même.": I've changed to "reculer de lui-même." - "sans pièce amie comme voisine" again, it could be "sans pièce amie adjacente", depending on the above. - "En outre d'amener un lapin de l'autre côté du plateau," I've changed to "En plus d'amener un lapin de l'autre côté du plateau,"? That's a little bit less "perfect language" but kind of more common perhaps? (EDIT : en fait, je pense que "en outre de" ne se dit pas ?) Conversely, we could also go for "En sus ...", I think that would be so optimal (and so 14th century) ^^ - "même si vous sacrifiez votre dernier lapin ce faisant." I think this one and the previous should earn you top grade :) I should have said "20" to confuse the anglo-saxon guys who might be spying the french translation discussion. :) Btw, how about just ""même si vous sacrifiez votre dernier lapin."? - "case-trappe" : on pourrait juste utiliser "trappe" peut-etre ? Par contre à la première occurrence, "Le plateau comporte 4 trappes", peut-etre dire "case-trappe" pour que ce soit clair qu'une trappe = 1 case ? - "Les pièces amies ne se laissent pas tomber!" Owned again, French FTW :) How do you like ""Les amis ne se laissent pas tomber!"? EDIT: No, rather "On ne laisse pas tomber un ami!", how about that? - "de l'autre côté du plateau" Je pense qu'on utilise toujours ce type d'expression pour le goal, peut-etre il faudrait préciser au moins une fois "(jusqu')à la dernière rangée adverse" ou "jusqu'à la 8e rangée", sinon on ne sait pas trop si la 7e rangée compte aussi, ou s'il faut sortir du plateau ? - "pour la troisième fois et pour un même joueur." maybe "pour la troisième fois (avec le trait au même joueur)."? - "Cette règle empêche tous les cas délirants de répétitions, mais fondamentalement elle empêche simplement de s'acharner à défaire les mouvements de l'adversaire." It's a big long as well (I'm worried about following the pace of the english voice commentary as usual). Not sure how to shorten though, perhaps removing "s'acharner à"? Ok, that turned out to be a long post, but still almost all of the above are totally optional, let me know what you think. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by UruramTururam on Feb 25th, 2011, 6:39am on 02/25/11 at 06:18:27, chessandgo wrote:
Arimaa is hardly English... And I guess "L'Arimaa" like "Le go" adds sam kind of reverence to the name! ;D |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by chessandgo on Feb 25th, 2011, 8:30am on 02/25/11 at 06:39:33, UruramTururam wrote:
True :) Vague English-speaking origins I should have said, perhaps, does that fit better? :) I'm not sure about the "reverence explanation" (but let me write a smiley in response :) and I don't think my explanation of "recent" is correct either), I suppose it's just the way it is :) |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by chessandgo on Feb 25th, 2011, 8:31am Ok, I gave it a go while playing the 5mn vid mute, and it basically fits, I just had to rush a few times, probably because I started at the wrong times. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Feb 25th, 2011, 9:31am I think what he means by "reverence" is that we want Arimaa to have the same image as the most classic and revered games, not the image of a modern commercial board game. Therefore I would recommend that as a general rule the word be used in any language according to the same grammatical rules (gender, apostrophes for suffixes, maybe plurals, etc) as if it were the word "chess", except for cases where it would be regarded as incorrect. So in the case of French, masculine and with the definite article. @Omar, languages can differ in how they treat capital letters. Do you have any specific instructions as to whether Arimaa should be capitalised or not? |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by chessandgo on Feb 25th, 2011, 10:12am I understand what reverence means, and I wanted to convey that I don't think the use of "the" in front of a strategy game in French has anything to do with reverence. There are examples of both important and trivial with both "the" and "non the" cases. For example, you say: - jouer à la marelle (child game, the) - jouer à 1-2-3-Soleil (child game, non the) - jouer aux échecs (revered game, the (and plural)) - jouer à question pour un champion (reference knowledge TV show, non the) Ok, you guys are going to tell me it's a TV game so it's crap. Hmmm. Well, after mouthing the weird sounding "Jouer à l'Arimaa" several times, I suppose I could get used to it :) My best guess is that "the or not the" is a matter of use, but I'm deferring to anyone who has a better knowledge of the French language :) And in French we almost never capitalize compared to you English-speakers, so "Arimaa" might be correct under a commercial meaning, while "arimaa" would be more standard (but we won't go for it I suppose). |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Feb 25th, 2011, 10:15am on 02/25/11 at 10:12:25, chessandgo wrote:
OK, I misunderstood you when you said you weren't sure about the "reverence explanation". Of course, you will know better than us what's best. All I can do is make general recommendations as a translator. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by chessandgo on Feb 25th, 2011, 10:21am on 02/25/11 at 10:15:44, megajester wrote:
Oh, sorry. I should have said that I'm not sure it was correct. And no, please keep giving us advice, translation is definitely something that you master and that we don't :) |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by UruramTururam on Feb 25th, 2011, 10:55am on 02/25/11 at 09:31:41, megajester wrote:
That's exactly what I meant. Sorry; I tend to write unclear sentences even in Polish not to mention English. I won't even try French however I understand it un peu. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by UruramTururam on Feb 25th, 2011, 11:07am on 02/25/11 at 09:31:41, megajester wrote:
Heh, heh. Arimaa makes real troubles in Polish because of the double a at the end. In Polish words ending by -a are normally feminine with a few exceptions, but there are no words ending -aa. (Btw. chess is "szachy", non-masculine, plural.) And the grammatic position of the word defines the suffix that is attached to the word or replaces an existing one. For example female genitive usually replaces -a by -y. So what it would be for Arimaa: Arimay, Arimaay, Arimyy, Arimy? Probably the last one, two first are horrible to say, the third is good for a joke. So all the possible forms the word Arimaa could have in Polish would be: Arimaa, Arimy, Arimie, Arimę, Arimą, Arimo, Arim, Arimom, Arimach. Sigh. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Feb 25th, 2011, 11:24am on 02/25/11 at 11:07:44, UruramTururam wrote:
Oh goodness. When I made my recommendations I suppose I was too much under the influence of my own language set... It's clearly not going to work to make a single rule that applies for all languages. It's all about purpose. We want Arimaa to be thought of more as a "classic" than a commercial product. So if we have two options, one of which sounds like chess, go etc and the other that sounds like a commercial product, and all other factors are equal (which never happens), I would say go with the first option. But if that option would be considered odd, then it would defeat the object of being a respectable game, and it would probably be better to go with the second option... |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Hippo on Feb 25th, 2011, 1:34pm on 02/25/11 at 11:07:44, UruramTururam wrote:
Polish is not too different from Czech. ... we have chosen to use Arimaa as foreign (imune to declinations) word. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by chessandgo on Feb 25th, 2011, 2:11pm You were totally clear, and your French is much better than my Polish :) I'm looking forward to hearing opinion from my French-speaking fellows. I think it could very easily be just in my mind that the "the" issue is disconnected from respectability, after all we use it with chess, go and shogi. I suppose using Arimaa only in an english-speaking context has a lot to do with my finding * l'Arimaa * weird. BTW: what's the joke with arimyy? :) |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by UruramTururam on Feb 25th, 2011, 3:12pm on 02/25/11 at 13:34:18, Hippo wrote:
Yup, I understand Czech if i think in old Polish and one of my Czech friends told me that he understands Polish thinking in old Czech - some time ago the languages were even closer. For declination-proof words Polish has strong tendency to incorporate foreign words and change them according to the Polish grammar. For example a few years ago "pendrive" was a foreign declination-immune word, two years ago it was not immune, and nowdays we tend to have "pendrajw" with all polish declinations and ortography (Polish has no v). Thus even if "Arimaa" is declared as an unchangeable word, first in spoken language then in written it will gain declination. I think there's no need to fight windmills here... |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by UruramTururam on Feb 25th, 2011, 3:20pm on 02/25/11 at 14:11:22, chessandgo wrote:
Well, it's hard to explain. It's like this: first of all a word ending at -aa looks weird for a Pole, yet a word with -yy at the end is twice as weird. Secondly - the Polish grammar never double-change the word... Imagine that in French arises a situation where instead of saying "Pas du tout" you are forced to say "Pas du toutout". |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by chessandgo on Feb 25th, 2011, 4:29pm I got it, there are some situations where do things like that in French, it's kind of a joke each time you say it indeed :) |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by leo on Feb 26th, 2011, 4:24am Jean, a big thank you for reviewing the translation! :) I've been too tired and unfocused lately to continue. I agree with most of the fixes you listed, so I suggest you directly change the database and tag it as Ready. If you don't have the time I'll do it later next week. You started dubbing the video too? Great! I didn't dare to do it. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by chessandgo on Feb 26th, 2011, 6:15am Ok cool, I'm going to do that. I'm not sure what "dubbing a video" means, none of the meanings in http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dub?show=0&t=1298722753 seem to fit, but anyway I've just spoken it aloud while running the video mute to see if it fit. As my speaking pace should be slower than average, and I had to rush in only a few places, it should mean it's perfect, so maybe the emphasis on shortening the translation is not important. We still need to hear more opinions on: 1) "un match annuel homme-machine." should we say "un match annuel humains-machine." to be less on the sexist side of things? 2) "pas" or "mouvement" to translate "step"? 3) "Jouer à Arimaa" or "Jouer à l'Arimaa"? 4) [ENGLISH SPEAKERS NEEDED HERE :)] "that's why the board isn't checkered!" I would like to know what this sentence means exactly, I'm not sure I understand properly, as well as thoughts on how to translate / what meaning to convey / whether this sentence should be included or could be removed in the French translation if need be. 5) est-ce qu'on devrait dire "le joueur Or/Argent" ou "Or/Argent" tout seul? 6) "Les pièces amies ne se laissent pas tomber!" or "Les amis ne se laissent pas tomber!" or "On ne laisse pas tomber un ami!", which one sounds better? I'm posting the current translation below as a block. All suggestions are more than welcome :) |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by chessandgo on Feb 26th, 2011, 6:16am Arimaa est un jeu de stratégie abstrait avec un challenge de programmation pour 10.000$ et un match annuel humains-machine. Il a été inventé en 2002 pour montrer que les humains peuvent encore surpasser les ordinateurs, et pour l'instant les humains sont toujours les meilleurs! Si vous avez un jeu d'échecs à la maison, vous avez tout ce qu'il faut pour jouer à Arimaa bien que ce soit plus amusant avec la boîte de jeu de Z-Man Games. Les joueurs (Or et Argent) ont chacun 16 pièces: 1 éléphant, 1 chameau, 2 chevaux, 2 chiens, 2 chats et 8 lapins. Toutes les pièces se déplacent de la même façon, orthogonalement, mais une pièce plus forte peut malmener une pièce plus faible en la poussant, en la tirant, ou en la congelant. A chaque tour, les joueurs peuvent faire 4 pas orthogonaux. Le but du jeu est d'amener n'importe laquelle de vos pièces les plus faibles (les lapins) de l'autre côté du plateau. Le plateau comporte 4 trappes. Une pièce ne peut être capturée que si elle se trouve sur une trape ou bien si elle *y* est poussée ou tirée. Sur toutes les autres cases, une pièce *ne peut pas* être capturée. Le joueur Or débute le jeu en plaçant ses pièces comme il le désire sur les deux premières rangées. Les 64 MILLIONS de placements possibles sont légaux! Il n'y a pas de restrictions -- et pas d'ouvertures à apprendre. Quand le joueur Or a terminé, le joueur Argent place ses propres pièces sur ses deux rangées de départ. Pouvoir réagir en fonction du placement adverse compense l'avantage du premier coup du joueur Or. Après le placement, les joueurs jouent leurs coups à tour de rôle. Ils essaient d'effectuer des captures sur les cases-trapes et d'amener finalement un lapin de l'autre côté. Maintenant que nous avons présenté les bases, voyons les règles du jeu en détail. Toutes les pièces avancent en faisant un pas A GAUCHE, A DROITE, EN ARRIERE OU EN AVANT, sauf les lapins, qui ne peuvent pas reculer. Les lapins peuvent seulement faire un pas A GAUCHE, A DROITE ET EN AVANT. Les pièces ne peuvent pas avancer en diagonale. Les diagonales ne comptent pas à Arimaa. %%%%%%%%%%%%c'est pourquoi le plateau n'est pas un damier. Vous pouvez faire jusqu'à 4 pas par tour. Vous n'êtes pas obligé d'utiliser la totalité des 4 pas, mais vous devez modifier la position. Vous pouvez utiliser les 4 pas pour la même pièce, ou bien les partager entre 4 pièces, ou toute autre répartition. Une pièce qui se trouve à côté d'une pièce adverse plus forte est congelée; elle ne peut pas bouger, à moins qu'elle ne soit adjacente orthogonalement à une pièce amie. Les pièces amies se tiennent chaud! Une pièce congelée peut congeler une pièce plus faible qu'elle. Les pièces de même force ne peuvent pas se congeler. En deux pas, une pièce peut pousser une pièce adverse plus faible. Tout d'abord la pièce adverse est déplacée vers une case vide voisine; puis la pièce la plus forte se déplace sur la case laissée vide par la pièce adverse. Les pièces de même force ne peuvent pas se pousser. S'il n'y a pas de case voisine vide, la pièce ne peut pas être poussée! Egalement en deux pas, une pièce peut tirer une pièce adverse plus faible. Tout d'abord la pièce la plus forte se déplace vers une case voisine vide; puis la pièce adverse est déplacée vers la case laissée vide par la pièce la plus forte. Les pièces de même force ne peuvent pas se tirer. Notez qu'un lapin peut être poussé vers l'arrière, même s'il ne peut pas reculer de lui-même. On peut utiliser 4 pas pour pousser et tirer successivement, mais une pièce ne peut pas pousser et tirer en même temps. Capturer une pièce est simple. Une pièce qui se trouve sur une case-trape sans pièce amie comme voisine est aussitôt retirée du plateau. On ne laisse pas tomber un ami! Une pièce peut donc être capturée de 4 façons différentes: 1. Elle avance sur une trappe non protégée. Oups! 2. Elle est sur une trappe, et ses amies s'en vont. Zut! 3. Elle est sur une trape, et ses amies sont poussées ou tirées ailleurs. 4. Elle est poussée ou tirée sur une trape non protégée. En plus d'amener un lapin de l'autre côté du plateau, il existe deux autres façons de gagner, mais elles sont plus rares. Si vous capturez le dernier lapin restant de votre adversaire, vous gagnez (même si vous sacrifiez votre dernier lapin). Si vous privez votre adversaire de tout mouvement légal, vous gagnez la partie, mais vous ne pouvez pas sacrifier votre dernier lapin pour ce faire. Afin d'éviter les parties nulles, il est illégal de provoquer la répétition d'une position pour la troisième fois (avec le trait au même joueur). Cette règle empêche tous les cas délirants de répétitions, mais fondamentalement elle empêche juste de défaire les mouvements de l'adversaire. C'est tout ce que vous avez besoin de savoir. Vous êtes prêt à jouer à Arimaa! |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by leo on Feb 26th, 2011, 6:47am To dub a film signifie en faire le doublage: http://www.wordreference.com/enfr/dub Je vais réfléchir aux questions que tu soulèves quand j'aurai la tête moins empâtée ;) C'est justement le genre de questions que je me suis posé cent fois en traduisant l'article de wikipedia, mais maintenant je ne suis sûr de rien. En tout cas j'ai confiance en ton jugement de grand joueur de différents jeux de stratégie. Pour checkered je pense qu'ici ça veut simplement dire colorée comme un damier ou un échiquier, avec les diagonales bien visibles. Mais ma traduction n'est peut-être pas la meilleure qu'on puisse trouver. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by chessandgo on Feb 26th, 2011, 8:57am ah ok, merci :) Et j'ai peur que mon "jugement de grand joueur" ne vaille pas tripette ^^ Effectivement, j'ai vu que c'est comme ça que tu as traduit checkered, mais je ne comprends pas pourquoi mettre cette phrase alors qu'on omet des choses beaucoup plus importantes à cause du temps limité. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Feb 26th, 2011, 9:31am Yeah, don't sweat the small stuff :) Let me know when the subs are finished and I'll add them to the English video. Also when you finish the French video, upload it to the ftp here and I'll put it on Youtube. Unless you want to do that yourselves... |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by chessandgo on Feb 26th, 2011, 4:50pm Ok, I gave it a go and uploaded a .wmv and .wav file on the ftp server, http://arimaa.com/arimaa/ftp/filemanager/filemanager.php I see some file names have "noreverb" in their names, I didn't get why, but after listening to my produced wmv I think the sound is messed up with some kind of faint echo, I suppose that could be the reverb thing. I have no idea how to improve it, and I don't know whether the sound and music level are correct, so I've put the original .wav file with just the french sentences just in case. I couldn't use the flv HQ file, I don't think I can replace the soundtrack of a .flv file? Tell me what you think, there are still things which could be improved? The "On ne laisse pas tomber un ami" joke fails entirely, I think Leo's original idea was much better. I almost slipped at one point. Also, the soundtrack appears to be about half a second ahead of the video compared to what was intended, I couln't find how to cut non-integer seconds of an audio file :) Re-recording the whole thing would be a good option I think, especially if someone has more suggestions to improve the translation! :) |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Hippo on Feb 26th, 2011, 5:27pm Hmm looks like we should try to make Czech spoken version as well ... I have to think about it ... :) |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Fritzlein on Feb 26th, 2011, 6:36pm on 02/26/11 at 06:15:53, chessandgo wrote:
Why does a chess board have half light squares and half dark squares? To help with diagonal moves. I have experienced (and I am sure many chess players have) an opponent making a bishop move that "bends", e.g. starts on one diagonal and ends on a different diagonal. if there wasn't a pattern of alternating light/dark squares, such erroneous diagonal moves would happen all the time. Arimaa has no bishops, and no diagonal movers. We don't need the visual cue of light/dark squares when playing. In fact, the pattern of colored squares is a distraction. So the manufactured Arimaa boards instead have one color for traps and another color for regular squares. I think the appearance of the board is a good way to remember "diagonals don't count". Of course the appearance of the board is not part of the rules, but it can help clarify the rules. Also it perhaps makes it clear that not only can the pieces not move diagonally, but also diagonal doesn't count for trap support, freezing, and unfreezing. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by chessandgo on Feb 27th, 2011, 2:55am Ok, thanks for clarifying. Well, the French version could be literally translated as: "The board is not a checker-board", but without a repetition of the word "board" (we don't have a word for "checkered" in French as far as I understand it. Oh, I just checked with wordreference, they give something like "chess-board like" fore checkered). Maybe we should have said: "C'est pourquoi le plateau n'est pas un échiquier"? The "damier" thing is a bit surprising, as the link with checker/draughts is rather unexpected. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Hippo on Feb 27th, 2011, 7:33am "this is why it is not colored as chessboard" Fortunately sachovnice ... chessboard in czech does not contain deska ... "board". |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by UruramTururam on Feb 27th, 2011, 8:25am Yeah. I had a first look at the movie text how to translate it to Polish and for that sentence I had a problem that "szachownica" in Polish means both "a chessboard" and "a black and white square pattern". I'd translate that fragment as "Dlatego zamiast szachownicy dostajemy arimnice" - literary: "so instead of a chessboard we get an arimaaboard". Of course there is no "arimnica" word (yet), but it would be perfectly understandable. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Eltripas on Feb 27th, 2011, 1:35pm "las diagonales no cuentan en arimaa por ello el tablero no las tiene" "The diagonals never count in Arimaa that's why the board doesn't have them" Those where the words I used for the Spanish translation because in Spanish we don't have a word for checkered. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by chessandgo on Feb 27th, 2011, 1:57pm Ok, glad to see everyone had to work to render that "checkered" thing in their own language :) I'm waiting from more feedback from my fellow French players. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Fritzlein on Feb 28th, 2011, 1:44am Next to the video are links for: English Czech German Spanish Turkish The first one I get, but shouldn't the others be Česky Deutsch Español Türkçe ? I mean, part of the point is that those viewers might not speak English so well, right? |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by UruramTururam on Feb 28th, 2011, 1:51am If they are when they are they probably know names of their languages in English... But, well, it may look better to translate them. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Hippo on Feb 28th, 2011, 3:36am on 02/27/11 at 08:25:48, UruramTururam wrote:
It seems to me this loses the idea. "This is why native arimaboard does not emphasize diagonals" is the idea. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by UruramTururam on Feb 28th, 2011, 4:41am on 02/28/11 at 03:36:13, Hippo wrote:
But this has been already said before. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by chessandgo on Feb 28th, 2011, 5:21am on 02/28/11 at 04:41:37, UruramTururam wrote:
I agree, that was why I asked about this "checkered" thing in the first, hard to find something not redundant to say. But in the video, they show the reverse side of the arimaa board, which is a chessboard, so we have to say something about that anyway. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Feb 28th, 2011, 6:08am Hey what about: "This is the reason for the difference between a chessboard and an Arimaaboard." or "This is why the squares are the same color." |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by UruramTururam on Feb 28th, 2011, 7:20am Yes, the "chessboard/arimaboard difference" would sound great while retaining the information value! :) Thanks. Since I'll get a better microphone in a relatively long time maybe a version with subtitles would be OK for a time being. I've started to make one to check it. You can find a file here: http://rapidshare.com/files/450246503/ArimaaPL.mp4 Two first minutes are with subtitles. Of course this is an experimental version, so some texts are of different color (I think white are better than gray...) and some of them are corrupted. Yet I don't want to progress any further without hearing your opinions. What's interesting when speaking I'd use different words that I use when writing but I guess in many languages a spoken tongue differs from a written one. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by chessandgo on Feb 28th, 2011, 10:24am you might want to use the ftp Ururam (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/ftp/filemanager/filemanager.php), using the rapidshare stuff might repel a large chunk of your audience :) |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by UruramTururam on Feb 28th, 2011, 11:21am As for now I don't want too many viewers. ;D But OK. The first test version is here: BGG_contest/video/ArimaaPL-test1.mp4 on the ftp server. I generally wonder if subtitled movie makes sense... And I've noticed I need to work on the first ones, they are changing too fast on a blinking background... Hmmm... |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by UruramTururam on Mar 3rd, 2011, 6:57am Well then I've finished Polish version of the "How to play Arimaa" movie. Of course there are only subtitles now there, but after consulting them with a few people including pro EN/PL interpreters I'm pretty sure they can be helpful. It is on the ftp server as /BGG_contest/video/ArimaaPL.mp4 . Both the "test" labeled files may be removed. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Mar 3rd, 2011, 7:21am I'm sorry... did you say you made a video which is still dubbed in English, but has Polish subtitles? The way we've been doing it is through this Google spreadsheet (https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Al-DRVzoDwKsdDVCYWRwNzZnYS1vZjh6aWtia2wzTXc&hl=en&authkey=CMznrIoF). I copy the column into Notepad, and then upload it as a subtitles file to Youtube as an extra option with the English video. It's much, much less hassle than either adding subtitles to the video itself in editing software, or producing a re-dubbed video. The idea is that more languages can be added more easily. I haven't looked at your video yet, but that could still be uploaded separately. Let me know what you want to do. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by rbarreira on Mar 3rd, 2011, 7:35am The Portuguese translation might be done, but I think I'll try to go through it again to see what can be improved. So don't upload it yet. Are there any Portuguese speakers here who can check it out? |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by UruramTururam on Mar 3rd, 2011, 8:14am I mixed the subtitles into the movie itself using Pinnacle. For the Polish spoken version I hope I'll be able to make it when I have a beter microphone (in about 2 months). |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Mar 3rd, 2011, 9:14am on 03/03/11 at 08:14:15, UruramTururam wrote:
OK we have two options at present: 1. Take the video you have prepared and upload it to Youtube as a separate video. For this I will need a title, a description and tag words in Polish (translations of the text that is there for the English video) 2. If it is reasonably easy for you to take what you have entered into Pinnacle and paste it into the Google spreadsheet, do that and I'll add it to the other subtitle languages on the standard video. Whatever you like. Edit: Good grief it's a monster! Would you mind uploading a compressed version? |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by UruramTururam on Mar 3rd, 2011, 9:37am Second option is worse for it will lose some effects... Yet it may be done independently in fact. I can do that next week. For the texts in the description and keywords the little problem is that the forum does not treat well specific Polish characters like ęąśćńż etc. I don't know if they would be copied well. Hmmm. I'll use an external file. Here is a word file with necessary texts: http://arimaa.strony.pl/arimaa.docx |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Mar 3rd, 2011, 9:55am OK... What do you say to uploading a compressed version of the file? If that would be too complicated don't worry, but if you can it'd be a great help... |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by UruramTururam on Mar 3rd, 2011, 9:59am Unfortunately I don't have the soft on the machine I'm using now. :( I can re-sample the movie tomorrow. Just tell me what format, resolution and bps to use and I'll check whether it's possible. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Mar 3rd, 2011, 5:43pm Maybe this page (http://corpocrat.com/2008/12/27/best-quality-video-format-for-youtube-with-small-file-size/) could give you some pointers. Like I say, if it will be too much trouble I can download the other one and upload that, it will just take me a couple of days to get round to it as I'm snowed under at the moment. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by UruramTururam on Mar 4th, 2011, 2:55am I have re-coded the movie as FLV that is accepted directly by the youtube service. There are two versions: ArimaaPL-hi.flv - Hi quality, 1280x720 2400(v)+128(a) kb/s ~90MB total ArimaaPL-low.flv - Low quality, 640x360 750(v)+64(a) kb/s ~30MB total The quality of the second one is substantially degraded, the first one is just slightly worse than the original MP4. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by UruramTururam on Mar 4th, 2011, 9:58am Eh, I compared the compressed versions to the uncompressed one directly and they look worse. I've uploadet the full version to YT, the address is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfK91XAek9c - it can be linked wherever necessary once it's processed there. If it looks bad or if you don't like it to be done this way I may well delete it from there. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by chessandgo on Mar 4th, 2011, 10:47am It looks good (I obviously can't understand a word). Cool, you say "Gol" like the spanish do, and "W" is a word in Polish? :) |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by UruramTururam on Mar 4th, 2011, 11:01am "W" is a Polish word indeed. Main meanings: "in", "into". We have also the word "z" - main meaning: "from". When speaking you glue these words to the ones following them. Well, in France you have a word "L"! :D In the title I used a little trick. Direct translation "Learn to play Arimaa" would require changing the game name to the form required by the grammar. So I used "Arimaa - learn to play it". Note that in Polish you say you play "into" a game. The main reason I decided not to avoid to make declination forms of the word "Arimaa" inside the movie was somewhat similar to the reasoning behind "l'Arimaa" in French - to create an impression of talking about something the listener should be familiar with. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by chessandgo on Mar 6th, 2011, 3:50am Cool :) Well, "L'" is a contracted form of "Le" or "La", so it doesn't count (or half-counts ^^). How do you pronounce these "Z" or "W", do you glue the sounds to the next word, or do you have some "vowel" in the pronunciation (like "Wuh"?), or... ? |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by UruramTururam on Mar 6th, 2011, 9:30am We glue, like in French "l'eau". In some cases when gluing is not possible due to too complicated sound pattern resulting we extend "w" and "z" in writing to "we" and "ze" (e like in English "get") e.g. "we wraku" (in a wreck) or "ze strony" (from a page) and pronounce accordingly. The "w nią" in the movie title is pronounced like "vgnon" pronounced as a French word. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by chessandgo on Mar 7th, 2011, 3:30am Owkay :) |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by megajester on Mar 14th, 2011, 2:17am OK, Polish down, Portuguese, Italian and French to go! |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by UruramTururam on Apr 4th, 2011, 7:11am O-okay! I have finished the Polish spoken version of the "learn to play Arimaa" video. Here it goes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI4h8czCsn0 I think it may be linked wherever necessary. I think I'll put it on BGG and popularize it in a few gaming-oriented services in Poland. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by omar on Apr 5th, 2011, 11:17pm on 04/04/11 at 07:11:55, UruramTururam wrote:
Thanks. It turned out great. I've linked it on the main page now. |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Laci on May 11th, 2013, 4:15pm I've thought of making a Hungarian version. Right now I'm ready with translating almost every line, I will want to consider them some more times and ask some people to read them, too. Is there a way to make a beta version subtitle to be able to show people for judgment? |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by supersamu on May 12th, 2013, 1:19pm on 01/24/11 at 14:24:57, megajester wrote:
I somehow must have overlooked this thread. I can do a german version. Do I simply say the subtitles out loud or should I change something when the time for saying all words is too short? |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by Nombril on Jun 25th, 2013, 10:13pm Going from memory here: Saying the subtitles out loud is a fine place to start, but I think if you have time to make adjustments to the phrases that would be OK as well. |
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Title: Row Post by Hippo on Jun 26th, 2013, 3:09am I have reread the czech subtitles and I found 2 inaccuracies: Row 178 4 kroky mohou být použity k tlačení následovaném tažením, The original translation was gramatically incorrect and switches pull and push. Row 248 Your mission ... Seems English original should have been longer as other translations are much more longer. What have to be the English original? Is it desirable to made changes to the spreadsheet even now? |
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Title: Re: Going Global Post by RmznA on Jul 1st, 2013, 3:59pm I have some suggestions for the Turkish translation. I can post later more if the current translation is not frozen. This is the first part: Row 11: "... canını okuyor." This way it is with no dialect. The style of the last two words in this sentence is very informal and old but it is not wrong. Row 18: "fakat Z-Man Games'in Arimaa takımıyla oynarsanız daha zevkli tabii. " This is grammatically not correct (first part is in another (grammer)style then the second part). So I would suggest something like this: "fakat Z-Man Games'in Arimaa takımıyla oynamak tabii ki daha zevkli." Row 21: “İki oyuncunun 16'şar taşı vardir;” This way it is ‘book’ style. |
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