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        Arimaa >> Site Discussion >> Wiki energy. revival.
        
(Message started by: froody on Feb 21st, 2013, 11:12am)
Title: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by froody on Feb 21st, 2013, 11:12am
Let's put some love into the wiki!

Pages that need work:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Bot_List

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Guide_to_the_Arimaa_gameroom

2013 WC game reports.. http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/2013_World_Championship

(people are talking about the games in the chatroom, so why not just dump that into a wiki page? Something is better than nothing. Then others will come and edit edit edit)

User's personal pages. How did you find Arimaa? Which other games do you like? etc. Comic back-story is good, too :-)

Don't be afraid to add things or make changes. We can always rollback. I think it's better to have something with mistakes than nothing at all.

If you don't have a wiki account; I can make you one. Send me a message here with your email. You'll get an email asking you to set a password, then you're good to go. (Omar had to turn off the public account gen page cos spammers were using it). (Or if you prefer; mail Omar as per http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Create_Account . But this might take longer!)

If we don't get 3 new accounts within 48h, I'll set fire to an Arimaa rabbit. Do it for Arimaa! Do it for the rabbits!
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by supersamu on Feb 21st, 2013, 11:44am
I think it´s true that it would be nice to have more information on the wiki on strategy and tactics. But it certainly is no easy task to expand it while simultaneously keeping the quality of the written work the same

I will help with some of the game reports, I just wonder how important these are. Who is the target audience of a written game report and how do I write one?
When researching past Arimaa championships, I usually go to
Games-> Event games, and not to the wiki page.

I still think that a personal page about a user on a wiki is somewhat out of place. In my opinion, the Forum would be a better place for that.
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by froody on Feb 21st, 2013, 1:44pm

on 02/21/13 at 11:44:14, supersamu wrote:
I think it´s true that it would be nice to have more information on the wiki on strategy and tactics. But it certainly is no easy task to expand it while simultaneously keeping the quality of the written work the same


Note: there is also the wiki book on wikibooks.org: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Arimaa

I think the wiki can work by getting little pieces at a time, then improving Quality.


Quote:
I will help with some of the game reports, I just wonder how important these are. Who is the target audience of a written game report and how do I write one?
When researching past Arimaa championships, I usually go to
Games-> Event games, and not to the wiki page.


I think they're important. I think they should start with a simple overview of the game, then go into more and more depth (as much as possible! Make new pages for deeper analysis if you have a lot). Then beginners can stop reading if/when they feel it's too deep. Also need a link to the commentary.

Even dumping the chat from the chatroom on a page about a game is better than nothing. Maybe we should do that as well, but on a separate page?

The wiki should be better than Games-> Event games. More editors.

See http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/2012_World_Championship for good examples.


Quote:
I still think that a personal page about a user on a wiki is somewhat out of place. In my opinion, the Forum would be a better place for that.


I think it helps build the community and make it seem friendly/interesting/fun. People don't browse the forums in the same way. And the wiki is better to edit/update. Also, it doesn't do any harm...? (If you don't care about people, don't click their link.)
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by Trick on Feb 22nd, 2013, 3:03am
I'll take an account, though I can't promise to add anything useful about strategy having only just started playing.

My thoughts:

1) Player profiles would be good so long as there is a separate section for them. (Having never edited a wiki, I'm not 100% sure how they're set up.)

2) I could write a page or two about how players can help with the marketing. At the moment, the marketing for this game is terrible. It's essentially marketed toward research computer scientists. Not a bad crowd as far as I'm concerned, however, if we want a next generation of players Arimaa really needs to get marketed toward kids.

I just wrote in another post to rabbit that I never learned to play chess from family members, I learned to play because there was a chess board in every classroom in our elementary school.

Just like Christian churches and the cigarette companies, we need to get them while they're young.   ;)
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by Trick on Feb 22nd, 2013, 3:09am
Oh yeah, and please don't just dump chat logs into the wiki.  :-/
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by froody on Feb 22nd, 2013, 4:43am

on 02/22/13 at 03:09:17, Trick wrote:
Oh yeah, and please don't just dump chat logs into the wiki.  :-/


For what reason? They're public anyway. Drown in information? I can swim! If they go on a separate page, isn't it OK? *shrug*
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by froody on Feb 22nd, 2013, 4:49am

on 02/22/13 at 03:03:58, Trick wrote:
Just like Christian churches and the cigarette companies, we need to get them while they're young.   ;)


Yup. Best thing would be to setup Arimaa clubs in schools, but that's not easy.
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by Trick on Feb 22nd, 2013, 8:58am
No definitely not!

The biggest barrier to entry is the cost of the game board and pieces. The chess sets we used in elementary school cost $3-$5 at any department store. The cheapest Arimaa set I have seen is the $40 set marked down to $25.

It's a nice set. I bought one. But that's way too expensive to get me to donate more than one, maybe two, to my local school.

I know you CAN use a chess set to play Arimaa, but in terms of marketing I think the community should avoid that, and all similar comparisons to chess because chess has an intellectual stigma attached to it. Granted, that stigma is what attracted me to chess and probably many people who visit this message board, however, if you want to get as many people to try Arimaa as possible the community should focus on its simplicity more than anything else.

The masses like simple!   ;)
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by Fritzlein on Feb 22nd, 2013, 9:00am

on 02/22/13 at 04:43:08, froody wrote:
For what reason? They're public anyway. Drown in information? I can swim! If they go on a separate page, isn't it OK? *shrug*

Dumping chat logs sends the message from the author to the reader, "I don't respect your time.  I'm willing to post garbage and make you figure out that it is garbage."  I understand that you personally might feel differently; perhaps you don't mind if someone spews a stream of useless stuff at you as long as it occasionally contains something of interest.  And in brainstorming sessions or chat rooms it is essential to have exactly that attitude.  You don't want to squelch creativity by premature evaluation; let the ideas flow freely regardless of quality!

I think, however, that I speak for the majority in saying that event reporting should have a different standard than chat.  Expectations are different for a wiki article than for a chat log.   There is a minimum level of quality of text below which I would rather have no article, because a blank article at least doesn't waste my time and draw me in with an empty promise of something interesting.  You could claim that when you create an article you don't promise anyone anything, but according to popular expectation, you actually do.
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by Trick on Feb 22nd, 2013, 9:19am
Thank you Fritzlein. I was just coming back to address the chat log idea.

You stated it more direct and eloquently than the sports metaphor I was thinking!   8)
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by froody on Feb 22nd, 2013, 9:46am

on 02/22/13 at 09:00:38, Fritzlein wrote:
Dumping chat logs sends the message from the author to the reader, "I don't respect your time.  I'm willing to post garbage and make you figure out that it is garbage."  I understand that you personally might feel differently; perhaps you don't mind if someone spews a stream of useless stuff at you as long as it occasionally contains something of interest.  And in brainstorming sessions or chat rooms it is essential to have exactly that attitude.  You don't want to squelch creativity by premature evaluation; let the ideas flow freely regardless of quality!

I think, however, that I speak for the majority in saying that event reporting should have a different standard than chat.  Expectations are different for a wiki article than for a chat log.   There is a minimum level of quality of text below which I would rather have no article, because a blank article at least doesn't waste my time and draw me in with an empty promise of something interesting.  You could claim that when you create an article you don't promise anyone anything, but according to popular expectation, you actually do.


OK, so we won't do it.

But yeah, I think something is always better than nothing. Give people the choice. If you want to read the chat about this game, click here, if you don't, don't. blah blah. And the chat is not garbage! The good ones tell a story, and contain move suggestions etc etc. (and I'm talking about dumping only the bits that concern the game). Now I've convinced myself it's a great idea! But you don't agree. So fine, we won't do it! Unless I convinced you. Did I convince you? I'll take no answer as a no :-)
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by froody on Feb 22nd, 2013, 9:56am

on 02/22/13 at 08:58:41, Trick wrote:
No definitely not!

The biggest barrier to entry is the cost of the game board and pieces. The chess sets we used in elementary school cost $3-$5 at any department store. The cheapest Arimaa set I have seen is the $40 set marked down to $25.

It's a nice set. I bought one. But that's way too expensive to get me to donate more than one, maybe two, to my local school.

I know you CAN use a chess set to play Arimaa, but in terms of marketing I think the community should avoid that, and all similar comparisons to chess because chess has an intellectual stigma attached to it. Granted, that stigma is what attracted me to chess and probably many people who visit this message board, however, if you want to get as many people to try Arimaa as possible the community should focus on its simplicity more than anything else.

The masses like simple!   ;)


I don't agree about the Arimaa sets. Chess sets are fine. Who cares if a dog looks like a dog? (But maybe I don't understand 'normal' people very well!). If it's a choice between playing Arimaa on a chess set, and not playing Arimaa...

And I don't get your stigma point. If you hate the idea of chess you probably hate all abstract strategy games. I just see Arimaa as Chess++. Anyway.
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by Trick on Feb 22nd, 2013, 2:02pm
I certainly don't hate chess, but that doesn't mean that I can't look objectively at the way the average person sees the game . Perhaps, it's just been my experience, but I have seen more people than not avoid chess because they think it's more sophisticated than they can handle.

In truth, they're right! Consider the first handful of games you played. Your opponent could give you a king, bishop and rook against their king and knight and you probably weren't sophisticated enough to force a mate. A beginner has no such problems like this in Arimaa. Orchestrating pieces that all move differently and coordinating an attack to trap the opponent's king is hard compared to taking a game where all the pieces essentially move the same and racing one of them to the other side.

On the surface, it's like comparing Lacrosse to the 100 meter dash. After they play for a while you can hit them with the deeper theory.  ;)
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by Fritzlein on Feb 23rd, 2013, 9:01am

on 02/22/13 at 09:46:27, froody wrote:
(and I'm talking about dumping only the bits that concern the game)

Editing down to only the bits that concern the game is already a significant improvement to quality...
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by supersamu on Feb 23rd, 2013, 9:54am
If this is going to be the thread where we will dicuss changes on the wiki, I suggest that you use a different name for the subject, like "Changes on the ArimaaWiki and the WikiBook - Community help appreciated". I think that would attract more Forum users. You could edit your first post to have several sections:

- Pages that need editing:
(I would like if you add these two )
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Guide_to_the_Arimaa_gameroom

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Why_we_love_Arimaa

-What you can do:
An inspirational text about everyone being able to participate, nobody having to worry about making mistakes and that even beginners can write good texts. After that some Info on how to create a wiki account.

-Long-term-projects (and their advancement)
Personally, I think we can write a lot more about strategical and tactical stuff not only in the wiki, but also in the wikibook.
We could have some pages about camel hostages, E+H-attacks, elephant blockades, EHH-Setups and so on.

I think these three sections would be a good start.
I also think that an important part is that you write "done!(maybe you can also write by whom)" after an article has been rewritten or written. I imagine something like this:

Pages that need editing:
- ...
- ...
- http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Guide_to_the_Arimaa_gameroom done by froody!
- ...
- ...

I think that would be a motivational boost. Will you be active enough to edit your first post every two weeks or so? I know that you have written all of this, but I think if you would organize your first post better, people will be more willing to read what you wrote.
Another idea that comes to my mind is a fourth section where all the "completed" wiki pages are that don´t need editing any more. You could also assign priorities to the soon-to-be-edited pages. Maybe moving the motivational section to the top is better as well. Please consider these suggestions. I don´t want to dictate what you have to do, just remember that we are in the same boat.

Note: I don´t want to express with my post that the community has done so little on the wiki, on the contrary,  I think that the Arimaawiki is more awesome than one could expect from such a small community.
Edit2: Maybe you can use this picture as well, froody:
http://s7.directupload.net/file/d/3175/qkcna5dd_jpg.htm
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by froody on Feb 23rd, 2013, 12:33pm

on 02/23/13 at 09:01:04, Fritzlein wrote:
Editing down to only the bits that concern the game is already a significant improvement to quality...


This is how wikis work. Say I watch the game, but don't have time or don't feel like writing a report. So I cut and paste a big lump of the chatlog into a page, and link that page to the empty report page. Now we have something. Then someone else comes along and edits out bits of the chat that aren't relevant. Better. Then someone else comes along and the chat jogs their memory and gives them ideas for the report...

If you always say 'I'm not going to make this page because I don't have time to make it super high quality', then the wiki won't have many pages. If you want to sit down and publish real quality, write a book (oh, you did! kudos). But yeah, a wiki is not the same as publishing a book.

Something is (nearly) always better than nothing. (I don't buy your argument about information having negative value. That attitude seems to me to be: 'we have to babysit the user and protect them from wasting their time. They are not smart and responsible enough to decide for themselves if the chatlog is useful.' )
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by froody on Feb 23rd, 2013, 4:08pm

on 02/23/13 at 09:54:41, supersamu wrote:
If this is going to be the thread where we will dicuss changes on the wiki, I suggest that you use a different name for the subject, like "Changes on the ArimaaWiki and the WikiBook - Community help appreciated". I think that would attract more Forum users. You could edit your first post to have several sections:


Sure. If you start a new forum thread I will post change ideas there. Or maybe have a wiki pages for it? Both? Whatever works / gets progress.


Quote:
- Pages that need editing:
(I would like if you add these two )
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Guide_to_the_Arimaa_gameroom

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Why_we_love_Arimaa

-What you can do:
An inspirational text about everyone being able to participate, nobody having to worry about making mistakes and that even beginners can write good texts. After that some Info on how to create a wiki account.


ya. I don't know if I'm good at inspirational text or not. But yeah, I think it's really important to encourage everyone to join in and not worry about making mistakes. So good idea to put this on a page.

I would like to open the wiki so that anyone can edit and create accounts, but we tried that last year and got a ton of spam.



Quote:
-Long-term-projects (and their advancement)
Personally, I think we can write a lot more about strategical and tactical stuff not only in the wiki, but also in the wikibook.
We could have some pages about camel hostages, E+H-attacks, elephant blockades, EHH-Setups and so on.


ya. Most of that should probably go in the wikibook. I think the best thing to help people to learn is to write good game reports. Encourage people to play through the games of masters. Also more 'goal in 2' type puzzles would be good.


Quote:
I think these three sections would be a good start.
I also think that an important part is that you write "done!(maybe you can also write by whom)" after an article has been rewritten or written. I imagine something like this:

Pages that need editing:
- ...
- ...
- http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Guide_to_the_Arimaa_gameroom done by froody!
- ...
- ...

I think that would be a motivational boost. Will you be active enough to edit your first post every two weeks or so? I know that you have written all of this, but I think if you would organize your first post better, people will be more willing to read what you wrote.
Another idea that comes to my mind is a fourth section where all the "completed" wiki pages are that don´t need editing any more. You could also assign priorities to the soon-to-be-edited pages. Maybe moving the motivational section to the top is better as well. Please consider these suggestions. I don´t want to dictate what you have to do, just remember that we are in the same boat.


ya. The wiki itself has support for this. It shows recent changes, top contributors, popular pages, etc. But if you want to create a page with more info like this, go for it. Or use the forum. Or both. Whatever works. Let the people decide, vote with feet, etc. Don't dictate, DIY!

(btw: other people have put a lot more work into making Arimaa cool than I have. My contribution so far has been small.)


Quote:
Note: I don´t want to express with my post that the community has done so little on the wiki, on the contrary,  I think that the Arimaawiki is more awesome than one could expect from such a small community.
Edit2: Maybe you can use this picture as well, froody:
http://s7.directupload.net/file/d/3175/qkcna5dd_jpg.htm


hehe. But I'm an anarchist! That man scares me.

To sum up: Don't Panic. Don't worry. Just Do It.
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by hyperpape on Feb 23rd, 2013, 6:17pm
Middle way: don't cut & paste dump the chat log, but link to the day, and post the period of time.
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by Fritzlein on Feb 23rd, 2013, 8:15pm

on 02/23/13 at 12:33:44, froody wrote:
This is how wikis work. Say I watch the game, but don't have time or don't feel like writing a report. So I cut and paste a big lump of the chatlog into a page, and link that page to the empty report page. Now we have something. Then someone else comes along and edits out bits of the chat that aren't relevant. Better. Then someone else comes along and the chat jogs their memory and gives them ideas for the report...

Yes, that is sometimes how wikis works.  Sometimes they work this way instead: someone dumps in a bunch of junk on a page.  Everyone ignores it.  A year later, someone who is new to the game goes to look at the event record of the 2013 Arimaa World Championship.  They find the page of junk.  They are unimpressed.  They stop reading the wiki because the quality is so low, and they don't have time to filter through the junk.  They therefore don't ever encounter the good information that is in other places on the wiki.  Since their time has been wasted, they give up and leave.

Time is finite and precious.  If you want to be ignored by other people, waste their time.


Quote:
If you always say 'I'm not going to make this page because I don't have time to make it super high quality', then the wiki won't have many pages.

There is a middle ground between a super high quality page and a chat log dump.


Quote:
Something is (nearly) always better than nothing.

Except when it is worse than nothing.


Quote:
(I don't buy your argument about information having negative value. That attitude seems to me to be: 'we have to babysit the user and protect them from wasting their time. They are not smart and responsible enough to decide for themselves if the chatlog is useful.' )

I don't buy your argument about information always being more useful than the time it takes to mine it out of garbage.  That attitude seems to me to be: 'we don't have to treat the user with respect because we didn't promise them anything.  If they get anything at all out of the page, no matter with how much effort required on their part, they should thank us for making their lives better.'
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by Fritzlein on Feb 23rd, 2013, 8:22pm

on 02/23/13 at 16:08:24, froody wrote:
Also more 'goal in 2' type puzzles would be good.

Check out this page by aaaa:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Category:Unique_wins_in_2
discussion here:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/forum/cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=talk;action=display;num=1349743969

Now that's what I call a good start to a wiki page!  But still this fine contribution to the community could be made even better by someone collecting the more interesting of those puzzles, categorizing them, and annotating them.  As wonderful as this resource is, the density of good information could be made higher.
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by froody on Feb 23rd, 2013, 9:58pm

on 02/23/13 at 20:15:27, Fritzlein wrote:
Yes, that is sometimes how wikis works.  Sometimes they work this way instead: someone dumps in a bunch of junk on a page.  Everyone ignores it.  A year later, someone who is new to the game goes to look at the event record of the 2013 Arimaa World Championship.  They find the page of junk.  They are unimpressed.  They stop reading the wiki because the quality is so low, and they don't have time to filter through the junk.  They therefore don't ever encounter the good information that is in other places on the wiki.  Since their time has been wasted, they give up and leave.

Time is finite and precious.  If you want to be ignored by other people, waste their time.

There is a middle ground between a super high quality page and a chat log dump.

Except when it is worse than nothing.

I don't buy your argument about information always being more useful than the time it takes to mine it out of garbage.  That attitude seems to me to be: 'we don't have to treat the user with respect because we didn't promise them anything.  If they get anything at all out of the page, no matter with how much effort required on their part, they should thank us for making their lives better.'


Ya. I get your argument, and it's right/fair that the Arimaa wiki follows your philosophy, rather than mine. So that is what we will do!

(but I'm going to type out my argument anyway! (feel free not to read it!:-))

I like to give people the choice. I can never have too much information. I can swim. If I go to a wiki, something is always better than nothing. I am responsible for dealing with the info. If I waste my time reading junk - I'm an idiot. If I see junk and that causes me to run away and not find the gold - I'm an idiot. You want to babysit the user and treat them like idiots. I want to treat them as smart and responsible informavores, and give them as many options as possible.

But, middle ground. Yeah. I can accept that. I guess!
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by froody on Feb 23rd, 2013, 10:05pm
I should replace 'idiot' with 'inferior informavore'. Cos it has a nice ring to it, and people get upset when you start throwing around words like 'idiot'! See! I am learning. Slowly.
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by froody on Feb 23rd, 2013, 10:16pm

on 02/23/13 at 18:17:09, hyperpape wrote:
Middle way: don't cut & paste dump the chat log, but link to the day, and post the period of time.


This loses the ability to edit out the irrelevant bits. And I don't see what we gain. Either way, you click a link, you see the chatlog. What does it matter if it's a link to the chat archive, or a link to a wiki page? (I should point out that I not upset if we don't have any links to the chat. It was just an idea. But when people give arguments against ideas, I feel compelled to refute them if I think they're wrong! (I wish I didn't!))
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by Fritzlein on Feb 24th, 2013, 8:06am

on 02/23/13 at 21:58:30, froody wrote:
You want to babysit the user and treat them like idiots.


on 02/23/13 at 22:16:13, froody wrote:
But when people give arguments against ideas, I feel compelled to refute them if I think they're wrong! (I wish I didn't!))

Pro tip: it doesn't count as refuting someone's argument to say something they don't believe and didn't say (in this case that I want to babysit users and treat them like idiots) and argue against that instead of arguing against something they do believe and did say.  That's called a straw man tactic.

I wondered how you would react to it if I used a straw man on you by saying that you want to waste people's time.  How does it feel to have someone attribute things to you that you never said and don't believe?  You just ignored it.  I guess I would win more arguments if I totally ignored the unreasonable parts of what other people say, and went on to make my case without being drawn in.  Hey, I learned something today!  :)

We don't have to discuss this until we agree, and co-existing in a state of disagreement, we can each behave as we see fit.  I know that if you create undigestible wiki pages, it is not because you disrespect users, want to waste their time, and don't care if they leave in disgust.  I know that your motivation is instead to make the world a better place.  Since I know that is your motivation, I won't object further; I will rather stand back and see whether the reality is that the pages you start eventually evolve in the way you predict when others join in your project, or whether those pages stay static until they are eventually improved by deletion.  :)
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by froody on Feb 24th, 2013, 11:53am

on 02/24/13 at 08:06:55, Fritzlein wrote:
Pro tip: it doesn't count as refuting someone's argument to say something they don't believe and didn't say (in this case that I want to babysit users and treat them like idiots) and argue against that instead of arguing against something they do believe and did say.  That's called a straw man tactic.


It's not strawman. It follows from what you said. You have no way to escape it.

"They stop reading the wiki because the quality is so low, and they don't have time to filter through the junk. "

If they can't parse information quickly, they must be retarded. If they see one page of junk and make the assumption that it's all junk, they must be an idiot.

They can't not be an idiot and behave in the way you say.


Quote:
I wondered how you would react to it if I used a straw man on you by saying that you want to waste people's time.  How does it feel to have someone attribute things to you that you never said and don't believe?  You just ignored it.  I guess I would win more arguments if I totally ignored the unreasonable parts of what other people say, and went on to make my case without being drawn in.  Hey, I learned something today!  :)


I would react by saying I'm not forcing them to do anything. I'm given them the choice. You are taking the choice away from them. You are dictating what they can/can't read. It's about increasing freedom.

Interesting about winning arguments. Don't be a sophist. I think the trick is to refute/dismiss things that you think are unreasonable very quickly/tersely and spend more time attacking the strong parts of the argument.


Quote:
We don't have to discuss this until we agree, and co-existing in a state of disagreement, we can each behave as we see fit.  I know that if you create undigestible wiki pages, it is not because you disrespect users, want to waste their time, and don't care if they leave in disgust.  I know that your motivation is instead to make the world a better place.  Since I know that is your motivation, I won't object further; I will rather stand back and see whether the reality is that the pages you start eventually evolve in the way you predict when others join in your project, or whether those pages stay static until they are eventually improved by deletion.  :)


Good point. Well said. We are being rational and working by consensus! go us.

They will stagnate and get deleted if we don't get more editors. Sooo.. if  you're reading this and you don't got a wiki acc, PM me an email. I'll make you one, and it will send a random password to your email. If Arimaa keeps getting more popular, we should have a thriving wiki.
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by Trick on Feb 24th, 2013, 12:30pm
There definitely doesn't seem to be any reason to argue the point further, though I still think that anything of value that could possibly be in the chat logs could always be presented better than raw chat.

I suspect Froody your inability/unwillingness to understand probably stems from your inability to understand why the average person is intimidated, and thus, turned off by chess. People like you and I (and probably many currently here) thrive on challenges.* The average person avoids them.

Why?

I don't know. But I do know that it happens.  :-/

*Notice the average person in this community, in one way or another, finds their way here because of the computer challenge. This puts the average person in this community on the higher end of the intellectually curious scale. If we want to attract a wider audience, information has to be presented to them in a simpler, and thus, a more presentable manner.
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by Fritzlein on Feb 24th, 2013, 2:44pm

on 02/24/13 at 11:53:50, froody wrote:
If they can't parse information quickly, they must be retarded. If they see one page of junk and make the assumption that it's all junk, they must be an idiot.

They can't not be an idiot and behave in the way you say.

I didn't say that, it doesn't follow from what I said, and this is a waste of time.  Oh, wait, if I let you waste my time, it follows that I am an idiot so...   :D
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by froody on Feb 24th, 2013, 3:08pm

on 02/24/13 at 14:44:19, Fritzlein wrote:
I didn't say that, it doesn't follow from what I said, and this is a waste of time.  Oh, wait, if I let you waste my time, it follows that I am an idiot so...   :D


TEASING/trollWarning: ahh. The last resort of someone who has lost an argument. 'This is a waste of my time, I can't even be bothered to explain why I'm right. I was happy to spend time when I thought I might win, but now, I resign'. Pro tip: don't use 'pro tip:' unless you're a pro. Especially when you're talking to a genuine pro!

Did I win? I won, right? Tell me I won.


Quote:
There definitely doesn't seem to be any reason to argue the point further, though I still think that anything of value that could possibly be in the chat logs could always be presented better than raw chat.


Right. Only point would be if you love to argue and you have time to burn! (-:



Quote:
I suspect Froody your inability/unwillingness to understand probably stems from your inability to understand why the average person is intimidated, and thus, turned off by chess. People like you and I (and probably many currently here) thrive on challenges.* The average person avoids them.


Because they're insecure and emotional. Why bother doing anything if you'll never be the best?

"Don’t waste your time on jealousy; sometimes you’re ahead, sometimes you’re behind... the goal race is long, and in the end, it’s only with yourself."

Froody brand spiritual enlightenment. Who wants to join my new cult?
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by Trick on Feb 25th, 2013, 7:01pm

on 02/24/13 at 15:08:54, froody wrote:
Because they're insecure and emotional. Why bother doing anything if you'll never be the best?


This is true. Most people fear making mistakes or the negative social sanctions (or perceived sanctions) that comes with making mistakes more than they have curiosity and a desire for truth and knowledge.

But good attempt at making mine (and Fritzlein's) point.  
:P


on 02/24/13 at 15:08:54, froody wrote:
Right. Only point would be if you love to argue and you have time to burn! (-:


???

You should practice more. As yet, you have not made a single point to your cause, save for the broad generalization that "More information is always better", which is demonstrably false. If such a statement were always true, the Federal Tax regulations would be a panacea for a knowledge seekers.  ;)
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by froody on Feb 25th, 2013, 9:10pm

on 02/25/13 at 19:01:00, Trick wrote:
This is true. Most people fear making mistakes or the negative social sanctions (or perceived sanctions) that comes with making mistakes more than they have curiosity and a desire for truth and knowledge.

But good attempt at making mine (and Fritzlein's) point.  
:P


ehh? Which point is that?


Quote:
You should practice more. As yet, you have not made a single point to your cause, save for the broad generalization that "More information is always better", which is demonstrably false. If such a statement were always true, the Federal Tax regulations would be a panacea for a knowledge seekers.  ;)


Practice what? Arimaa or Rhetoric?

I thought I explained my argument very clearly.

My argument is that more information can never hurt (if you're a responsible, smart informavore). Demonstrate this is false, please.

Access to more information is always good. Forcing information down your optical nerve is not good. I don't do that.

Depends what you want to know about. I don't care about tax regulations, so I don't read them. If you put a link on the wiki that says 'Tax regulations', Guess what? I won't click on it.

The mistake you made is thinking that I think all information is good, and therefore I like reading tax regulations. I did not say that at all.
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by dht on Nov 3rd, 2013, 4:02am

on 02/23/13 at 16:08:24, froody wrote:
I would like to open the wiki so that anyone can edit and create accounts, but we tried that last year and got a ton of spam.


What about unifying the login with the arimaa page, the forum doesn't seem to have a spam problem...

Anyway the real reason I'm posting... some links to alternate ratings that really should be on the wiki linkdumping here before I lose them in millions of open tabs.

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/rating/testRatings/est_p8.html

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/rating/whr/
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by dree12 on Jun 14th, 2014, 2:54pm
Hello,

Can someone with the required permissions get me a wiki account?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by Fritzlein on Jun 14th, 2014, 4:36pm

on 06/14/14 at 14:54:05, dree12 wrote:
Hello,

Can someone with the required permissions get me a wiki account?

Thanks!


I think only Omar can give you an account.  You can contact him here: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/contact/

See also http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Create_Account
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by dree12 on Jun 14th, 2014, 6:12pm

on 06/14/14 at 16:36:51, Fritzlein wrote:
I think only Omar can give you an account.  You can contact him here: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/contact/

See also http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Create_Account


Thanks for the help! I have contacted Omar. After my account is created I plan to add results summaries for the recent computer championships, which unfortunately are missing.
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by Fritzlein on Jun 15th, 2014, 11:31am

on 06/14/14 at 18:12:18, dree12 wrote:
Thanks for the help! I have contacted Omar. After my account is created I plan to add results summaries for the recent computer championships, which unfortunately are missing.

Excellent!  The event reports have fallen a bit behind.
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by dree12 on Jun 19th, 2014, 12:12pm

on 06/14/14 at 16:36:51, Fritzlein wrote:
I think only Omar can give you an account.  You can contact him here: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/contact/

See also http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Create_Account


Just curious, how are replies from Contact sent? I have not received any gameroom emails recently, so perhaps there is a problem somewhere in the sending process?
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by clyring on Jun 19th, 2014, 1:19pm
They are sent to the email you gave on the contact page.
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by aaaa on Oct 16th, 2014, 2:28pm
I'd like to see the main page (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Main_Page) adorned with a good-looking Arimaa position and am looking for suggestions and possibly a consensus.
Title: Re: Wiki energy. revival.
Post by jdb on Oct 18th, 2014, 2:08pm

on 10/16/14 at 14:28:58, aaaa wrote:
I'd like to see the main page (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Main_Page) adorned with a good-looking Arimaa position and am looking for suggestions and possibly a consensus.


Probably the most recognizable arimaa position is the 99of9 opening setup. Since the main page is the start of the wiki, how about a position from the start of the game?


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