Arimaa Forum
        (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/forum/cgi/YaBB.cgi)
      

        Arimaa >> General Discussion >> Which area of the board is most important?
        
(Message started by: 99of9 on Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:13am)
Title: Which area of the board is most important?
Post by 99of9 on Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:13am
Since I'm not very good at keeping secrets, here's some information I collected for my bot.  This table shows the number of times this square was moved from during all the games between 1700+ rated players.


  748   984  1148  1217  1316  1266   965   631
 1655  2879  2953  3735  4040  3275  3025  1582
 2054  4228  3008  5743  6059  3134  4373  2065
 2180  4750  5111  6382  6612  5245  4869  2139
 2164  4709  4980  6249  6224  4932  4726  2084
 1990  4156  2995  5634  5615  2884  4210  1912
 1540  2757  2961  3729  3793  3036  2957  1571
  672   895  1130  1164  1184  1182   949   655


Notice that the centre of the board is the most active, and the traps are not very popular :-).

OK, OK, I know it's obvious, but I needed these numbers for my bot anyway, and I thought you'd all like to see them.
Title: Re: Which area of the board is most important?
Post by 99of9 on Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:26am
And here's where the gold rabbits move from:

    1     1     1     1     1     1     2     1
   63    67    54    32    60    59    80    84
  116    74   131    78    89   118    92   180
  202   152   134   209   206   108   180   240
  258   187   185   237   230   191   233   321
  339   149   282   242   218   288   204   364
  433   356   250   470   445   258   412   466
  597   682   799   832   832   790   705   577


Did you know they prefer to win on the right hand side of the board?? :-)

Now the silver rabbits:

  648   732   787   844   883   818   684   559
  482   416   238   435   464   291   409   402
  319   192   291   212   206   281   188   324
  268   220   192   241   213   191   184   270
  205   159   110   207   198   130   170   204
  147    80   145    81    79   114    95   147
   63    69    49    58    56    71    86    81
    0     0     0     0     0     0     1     0

Who seem to prefer winning on the same side of the board (their left, the gold players' right).
Title: Re: Which area of the board is most important?
Post by 99of9 on Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:28am
Here's where the silver rabbits get pushed or pulled around by gold:

   28    73   152   137   161   177   111    31
  103   147   302   177   213   342   161    85
  117   203    15   233   262    20   199    75
  114    76   113   104   112   109    73    85
  147   112   177   116   123   174    96   133
  100   160    13   134   128     7   131    75
   37    31    53    35    30    36    38    30
    0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0


For some reason gold hardly ever pushes/pulls rabbits OFF a trap :-).
Title: Re: Which area of the board is most important?
Post by 99of9 on Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:39am
Where the gold cats are pushed/pulled from:

    0     0     0     0     2     0     1     1
    3     6     6    10     9     9     8     4
   29    70     1    32    39     3    45    14
   31    52    87    49    43    97    36    28
   32    90    62    92    77    58    66    29
   22   166    11   190   184    16   163    25
    8    41   285    76    78   258    30     9
    0     3    11     2     2     5     4     1


Where the gold dogs are pushed or pulled from:

    1     4     7     0     1     0     2     0
    6    12    28    12    12    28    13     5
   15    71     4    49    50     4    74    31
   38    66   135    38    43   116    60    46
   36   113    97    52    64    69    84    40
   34   258    14   127   129    11   232    34
   16    38   138    41    38   150    37     8
    0     2     7     2     3    10     4     1


Where the gold horses are pushed/pulled from:

    1     4     5     2     9     2     1     0
    9    22    43    30    32    46    24     8
   28   117     3    85    77     9   130    23
   47    94   163    68    71   173    81    45
   29   117   113   102    92   113    96    39
   18   165    15    97   117    11   140    21
    3    22    49    31    20    34    24     8
    0     1     5     1     0     4     4     1


Where the gold camels are pushed or pulled from:

    0     8     2     3     3     5     3     0
   16    23    22    32    33    29    18    25
   20    76     3    59    52     3    74    19
   23    51    66    43    46    67    48    33
   22    30    55    80    88    56    40    11
    2    19    15   112   186    19    39     4
    0     6    20   139   104    18     7     1
    0     1     1     1     1     2     0     0


And where the elephants get pushed around:

    0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0
    0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0
    0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0
    0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0
    0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0
    0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0
    0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0
    0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0

:-) well this one is pretty straightforward to understand!
Title: Re: Which area of the board is most important?
Post by 99of9 on Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:43am
How about when the pieces move (from) of their own accord?

Where the gold cats prowl:

    0     2     2     3     2     2     0     3
    6    10     9    17    12     6    14     6
   18    14    20    26    11    16    17    13
   38    69    62    86    63    39    71    29
   48   168   169   216   190   135   169    62
  143   258   471   313   312   446   237   145
  172   310   472   434   372   394   279   181
   12    15    31    70    74    43    22    11


Where the gold dogs scamper:

    1     6     8     6     4    13     6     0
   11    69    55    47    36    49    61     9
   43    72    62    47    47    49    87    56
   88   181   108   133   132    87   171    99
  158   315   184   218   201   205   328   169
  329   401   419   276   283   405   403   289
  361   422   293   222   242   291   446   302
    9    14    16    34    46    43    23     6


Where the gold horses gallop:

    3    11    25    19    19    40    24     3
   18   161   181   178   228   259   249    39
   91   248   170   168   179   227   353   154
  166   477   314   340   325   371   576   208
  191   593   452   418   425   487   676   233
  207   618   385   359   347   422   637   252
  209   603   248   241   247   295   559   254
    9    11    25    22    25    15    14     7


Where the gold camels lope:

    3    11    17    12    12    23    20     4
   22   123   128    82   104   157   174    28
  125   199   132   107   100   144   237   100
  191   364   240   205   193   259   401   123
  151   437   390   343   358   343   463   116
   71   281   323   489   481   325   408    94
   22   135   152   526   658   176   228    45
    5    13    16    19    13    17    15     2


Where the elephants stomp:

   19    26     9     9     4    10     3     0
   15    95   146   483   535   186    98     5
   46   223   223  1812  1907   240   195    30
   54   520  1017  1917  2034  1092   491    39
   52   444   708  1300  1282   695   393    37
   24   313   240   768   696   180   250    18
    2    58    75   475   423    60    67     9
    0     8     8     6     8     5     4     1


I hope you found all this interesting, any interesting discussion / conclusions?
Title: Re: Which area of the board is most important?
Post by RonWeasley on Nov 3rd, 2004, 11:31am
I wonder, if you segregated this data into winners and losers, would you see interesting patterns.  One would be that winners move rabbits from the 7th rank and losers don't.  I keep telling Harry that.  But there may be other patterns indicating pins and framing.  There's a lot of data mining that can be done.  Segregating by move numbers and piece count could also be infomative.

Here's an anti-conclusion.  Since good players move elephants from the center squares, avoid them in the first place!  :P
Title: Re: Which area of the board is most important?
Post by 99of9 on Nov 3rd, 2004, 11:49am

[EDIT: I don't disagree... the forum has somehow screwed up.  That was the first line of another post I wrote, not this one!]


I disagree umption on the winners vs losers thing is this:
Since both players are rated over 1700, I presume they both make "pretty good" moves [except for maybe one or two moves in the whole game].  Therefore even the losers moves are useful indicators of what is good (at least for my bot who doesn't know any better!).

You're right, if there are any statistically significant differences between what winners do and what losers do, then those differences are probably CRUCIAL (masterstrokes or blunders).

In fact, the more I think about it, the more curious I am.  Here's the rabbit details:

Gold rabbit moves when silver eventually won.

    0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0
    3     4     2     4     5     4     8     9
   27    13    29    23    19    33    15    57
   75    59    45    91    77    30    60    94
  119    93    79   122   110    75   102   138
  167    76   137   126   116   125    89   170
  231   198   153   284   273   156   235   236
  312   386   468   508   502   452   393   287


Gold rabbit moves when gold eventually won.

    1     1     1     1     1     1     2     1
   60    63    52    28    55    55    72    75
   89    61   102    55    70    85    77   123
  127    93    89   118   129    78   120   146
  139    94   106   115   120   116   131   183
  172    73   145   116   102   163   115   194
  202   158    97   186   172   102   177   230
  285   296   331   324   330   338   312   290


Therefore it is crucial to do a victory dance on the goal row? :P
Title: Re: Which area of the board is most important?
Post by 99of9 on Nov 3rd, 2004, 11:54am

on 11/03/04 at 11:31:49, RonWeasley wrote:
Segregating by move numbers and piece count could also be infomative.


Yes, I am definitely considering taking that kind of information into account.  Also segregating by which way the pieces are pulled etc.  But since there are so many possibilities I don't want to post them all here.
Title: Re: Which area of the board is most important?
Post by omar on Nov 6th, 2004, 12:32pm
Also it looks like we are very right handed. Or should I say right winged :-)
Title: Re: Which area of the board is most important?
Post by maker on Nov 6th, 2004, 2:37pm
Suggestion about why we(well, not me, hehe) seem to win on the right hand side of the board.  Gold's elephant is initially placed there.  Also, when gold's elephant is initially placed on the right, doesn't silver's elephant usually place on the left(ie silver's right?)  

  What would be really interesting, to see how much positioning of the elephant has to do with wins, is if you did an analysis on where a player won compared to where their elephant started the game.  Just a thought.

maker


Arimaa Forum » Powered by YaBB 1 Gold - SP 1.3.1!
YaBB © 2000-2003. All Rights Reserved.