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        Arimaa >> General Discussion >> Brain transplant for bot_Arimaanator?
        
(Message started by: Fritzlein on Aug 31st, 2005, 1:35am)
Title: Brain transplant for bot_Arimaanator?
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 31st, 2005, 1:35am
Before today, I hadn't played bot_Arimaanator in ages, and I confess I hadn't paid much attention to other people's games against it either.  The game I just played wasn't at all like I remember bot_Arimaanator being.  Since when does it not have all 8 rabbits in back?  Since when does it hang back with the camel instead of playing aggressively?  Was the engine replaced when I wasn't looking?

I miss the old bot_Arimaanator because it was the most aggressive of all the bots on the server, including the championship bots.  Now we've got just another turtle.  That, or my memory is faulty and I'm hallucinating on the basis of one late-night game.  :-)
Title: Re: Brain transplant for bot_Arimaanator?
Post by PMertens on Aug 31st, 2005, 1:42am
Game 18771 (Omar vs 'nator) was the first game using tobys setup (unless I am mistaken of course).
Title: Re: Brain transplant for bot_Arimaanator?
Post by Arimanator on Aug 31st, 2005, 1:43am

on 08/31/05 at 01:35:35, Fritzlein wrote:
Before today, I hadn't played bot_Arimaanator in ages, and I confess I hadn't paid much attention to other people's games against it either.  The game I just played wasn't at all like I remember bot_Arimaanator being.  Since when does it not have all 8 rabbits in back?  Since when does it hang back with the camel instead of playing aggressively?  Was the engine replaced when I wasn't looking?

I miss the old bot_Arimaanator because it was the most aggressive of all the bots on the server, including the championship bots.  Now we've got just another turtle.  That, or my memory is faulty and I'm hallucinating on the basis of one late-night game.  :-)


The side effect of getting so strong is to make everyone else (especially bots) seem weak in comparison. You're like Hercules crushing inadvertently the hand of a friend in an innocent handshake.  ;)
Title: Re: Brain transplant for bot_Arimaanator?
Post by omar on Sep 1st, 2005, 10:49pm
It seems a lot like Bomb2005CC doesn't it :-)

Since I was doing some experiments on my local WinXP box and needed to reboot it often, I had Bomb2005CC running as bot_Arimaanator. I forgot to post a message about that. But you guys are definitely alert and very familiar with the bots. Im impressed that you noticed it :-)

I'll change it back in about a week or so.
Title: Re: Brain transplant for bot_Arimaanator?
Post by Fritzlein on Sep 2nd, 2005, 10:05pm

on 08/31/05 at 01:43:56, Arimanator wrote:
You're like Hercules crushing inadvertently the hand of a friend in an innocent handshake.  ;)


You are too kind, Pat.  You'll notice that only three games prior I lost to BombFast, and that was when I was trying to win in the boring, mechanical E+H+immobilization style.  I wasn't even taking any risks (or so I thought).  I wish I were good enough to win without trying, but I'm not there yet.

Omar, I'm glad you still have the old bot_Arimaanator around somewhere to switch back to some day.  It is nice for variety, and I think it does newcomers more good to learn to beat strong aggression than for them to learn to beat the turtle.
Title: Re: Brain transplant for bot_Arimaanator?
Post by Adanac on Sep 7th, 2005, 7:22am

on 09/01/05 at 22:49:37, omar wrote:
It seems a lot like Bomb2005CC doesn't it :-)

Since I was doing some experiments on my local WinXP box and needed to reboot it often, I had Bomb2005CC running as bot_Arimaanator. I forgot to post a message about that. But you guys are definitely alert and very familiar with the bots. Im impressed that you noticed it :-)

I'll change it back in about a week or so.


That explains a lot.  Last week I thought that bot_Arimaanator had been tweaked to reflect the latest fashions in rabbit setup and "cautious camel" strategy.  I hadn't realized that it was actually Bomb2005CC!
Title: Re: Brain transplant for bot_Arimaanator?
Post by Arimanator on Sep 17th, 2005, 11:52pm
Dear Omar, about giving us back our good ol' Bot Arimaanator, if it's not too much trouble of course. I bet it would mean a few surprises, particularly to Blue22 who's gotten used to beat acting 'nator Bomb senseless for some time now.  ;)

I am in a prankish mood today.  ;D
Title: Re: Brain transplant for bot_Arimaanator?
Post by PMertens on Nov 15th, 2005, 4:25pm
please please please ?
Title: Re: Brain transplant for bot_Arimaanator?
Post by Ryan_Cable on Nov 15th, 2005, 5:18pm
I miss the old bot_Arimaanator as well.
Title: Re: Brain transplant for bot_Arimaanator?
Post by omar on Nov 16th, 2005, 3:55pm
I didn't know you guys liked it so much :-) By popular demand it's back online. Have fun :-)
Title: Re: Brain transplant for bot_Arimaanator?
Post by Fritzlein on Nov 16th, 2005, 5:47pm
Thank you!  It will be good to have an aggressive Bomb back in the house, alongside all the turtle versions.
Title: Re: Brain transplant for bot_Arimaanator?
Post by Fritzlein on Nov 16th, 2005, 9:40pm
I just played the old bot_Arimaanator for the first time in ages, which convinces me more than ever that it belongs in the lobby.

First of all, now that I have a broader perspective, I am impressed at how soon Fotland could make a bot this strong.  It's simply amazing.  To me it shows that if the rules of Arimaa had been only slightly different, it would have been a game that computers could conquer with relative ease.  But as it happens, the camel hostage strategy was waiting to be discovered, the tide turned in favor of humanity, and we have never looked back.

Now I think every newcomer should be encouraged to play bot_Arimaanator.  This is not for the history lesson only.  It is because even today the camel hostage is the cornerstone of strategic thinking in Arimaa.  When you see for the first time how crippling it is to a bot if your elephant ties up its elephant and camel at the same time, you have your first insight into the rich strategic depths that exist in this game.

Yes, Bomb2005 is the strongest Arimaa bot by any measure, but it is not a good bot from which to learn the fundamentals of strategy.  Indeed, in retrospect I wish I hadn't cut my teeth on Bomb2004 at home, and then been bewildered at not being able to beat the older, buggier bot_Arimaanator when I came on line.  The central problem is that a beginner can learn to beat the more refined versions of Bomb without learning the basics.  The strategies of nickel and dime, framing, total smothering, and variations of the EH attack all depend on the opponent voluntarily keeping the camel hidden.

Yes, playing bot_Arimaanator is boring once you can win, because you can practically win in only one way.  (I know about Belbo's worming a rabbit to goal; let's leave that strategy aside for now and hope beginners don't know about it.)  You almost have to take bot_Arimaanator's camel hostage to win, and when you do, mopping up isn't very hard.  But being railroaded in this direction is precisely why the bot should be in the lobby.  Everyone needs to know that when the other guy attacks with the camel, you have to take it hostage.  Until you learn this, you probably won't understand more advanced strategy, e.g. you have no idea why the EH attack is so effective.

After newcomers master bot_Arimaanator, there is plenty of time to move on to the championship bots that deal with camel hostages in various ways.  But by then folks have been encouraged to think along useful lines.

Thanks again for restoring this bot, Omar.
Title: Re: Brain transplant for bot_Arimaanator?
Post by omar on Nov 19th, 2005, 9:55am
It's temporarily down again, but I'll put back online Monday.


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