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        Arimaa >> General Discussion >> New Botbasher Challenge : Worst set up
        
(Message started by: frostlad on Apr 25^th, 2006, 2:46pm)

Title: New Botbasher Challenge : Worst set up
Post by frostlad on Apr 25^th, 2006, 2:46pm

Alright everyone. I'm curious to see how much of a handicap that the setup really is.
I want to see how far people can get up the ladder and how quickly you can win using the following setup:
MHDCRRRR
EHDCRRRR
Intuitively I think this would be the worst set up or does anyone have anything they think is worse?

Unfortunately I have no money so I can't offer anything like IdahoEv.

I also wouldn't mind seeing if people can do that with material handicap as well.
I know if the bot doesn't think much you can win ( see game 29805 ) but I haven't tried any high up bots yet.

Title: Re: New Botbasher Challenge : Worst set up
Post by nbarriga on Apr 25^th, 2006, 2:53pm

I think something like

RRRRRRRR
EMHHDDCC

would be much worse

Title: Re: New Botbasher Challenge : Worst set up
Post by Fritzlein on Apr 25^th, 2006, 3:01pm

on 04/25/06 at 14:53:27, nbarriga wrote:

RRRRRRRR
EMHHDDCC

I agree that this is the worst setup. I'm also pretty sure I beat bot_Bomb2005CC with that setup once, although I don't recall the game number. I figure it's about equivalent to a material handicap of two rabbits, or at most three, i.e. not as much as I expected.

Title: Re: New Botbasher Challenge : Worst set up
Post by frostlad on Apr 25^th, 2006, 3:20pm

That surprises me.
With
RRRRRRRR
EMHHDDCC

you at least have noble pieces on that side to help move around traps.

I'm not sure if I agree with you guys on that.

Title: Re: New Botbasher Challenge : Worst set up
Post by Fritzlein on Apr 25^th, 2006, 3:29pm

on 04/25/06 at 15:20:39, frostlad wrote:

...you at least have noble pieces on that side to help move around traps.

It's true that is a disadvantage to have no pieces whatsoever on one side, but a misplaced piece is easier to fix than a misplaced rabbit. With your setup you aren't tripping over your own rabbits so much, thus your pieces should have an easier time re-organizing themselves. Also, with your setup, you are in danger of rabbit pulls on one side only, instead of on both sides.

Of course, I'm just guessing about your setup until I try it. If you try out both against Bomb or Clueless, I'd be interested in your impressions of which was more difficult and why.

Title: Re: New Botbasher Challenge : Worst set up
Post by IdahoEv on Apr 25^th, 2006, 9:03pm

I just played a quickie against ArimaaScoreP2 to see what the position was like.

The totally asymmetrical position is actually pretty annoying; it might be as bad as all-rabbits-forward.

I think, though, that you want to bury the higher officers deeper. Assuming you want to keep the asymmetry, something like

DCDCRRRR
EMHHRRRR

Might be even a tad worse. An immediate EH attack would be devastating then; you couldn't even fend off the H.

Title: Re: New Botbasher Challenge : Worst set up
Post by clauchau on Apr 26^th, 2006, 1:37pm

I tend to think all the rabbits on the second rank is worse.

I don't know about humans or gods, but bot Bomb is confused when the rabbits are all on one flank.

It's like bot Bomb thinks the rabbit wall is real solid while the other flank is easy to go through. It likes files with no blocking rabbit of yours on your first rank.

And bot Bomb doesn't know much about rabbit pulling.

Maybe another bot would be tougher.

Title: Re: New Botbasher Challenge : Worst set up
Post by PMertens on Apr 28^th, 2006, 5:19pm

how about

CRCRRMRR
EHHDRRRD

This might trigger bombs camel-hunting instinct a little more.

...

Title: Re: New Botbasher Challenge : Worst set up
Post by Fritzlein on Nov 28^th, 2008, 10:42am

99of9, what is the setup with the lowest total score (relative to expactations based on ratings) over the history of Arimaa? I'm curious because it would have to be something popular enough that many games have been lost with it, but not so obviously bad that nobody plays with it.