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        Arimaa >> General Discussion >> Bot ladder message
        
(Message started by: Fritzlein on May 11^th, 2006, 5:34pm)

Title: Bot ladder message
Post by Fritzlein on May 11^th, 2006, 5:34pm

The message for people who have made it all the way to the top of the bot ladder says, at the end, "If you maintain a high rating consider playing in the World Championship Tournament." The If in that sentence makes no sense to me. I say anyone who can show up for all their scheduled games and fight to the death should play in the World Championship Tournament, even if they are rated 1100. I hope we get at least twenty-five participants in next year's WC. The message should read, "Please play in the World Championship Tournament. We welcome everyone, particularly people of your fortitude and determination."

Title: Re: Bot ladder message
Post by omar on May 14^th, 2006, 2:49pm

I hope that hasn't discouraged anyone from wanting to play the WC. I've changed the message a bit.

There may come a time when we have more players for the WC then we can handle within the time frame of the tournament. At that time we may have to use ratings to limit the entries.

Title: Re: Bot ladder message
Post by nbarriga on May 14^th, 2006, 5:07pm

Or maybe the top 8 (or whatever number) of players are automatically qualified to enter the WC, and any other who wants to enter, has to compete in a qualification tournament, about a month earlier.

Title: Re: Bot ladder message
Post by chessandgo on May 14^th, 2006, 8:46pm

yeah when we'll be millions to play we'll have a huge machinery with many layers of qualif tourneys ...
Looks like there's a lot of fun to be expected ;)

Title: Re: Bot ladder message
Post by Fritzlein on May 14^th, 2006, 10:40pm

Thanks for changing the wording, Omar.

on 05/14/06 at 14:49:31, omar wrote:

There may come a time when we have more players for the WC then we can handle within the time frame of the tournament. At that time we may have to use ratings to limit the entries.

With 16 players in 2006, the tournament went 8 rounds, the maximum it could. With 32 players, and the same floating double elimination format, it could go a maximum of 9 rounds. With 64 players, it could go a maximum of 10 rounds.

From the tests you ran before, Omar, 16-player floating triple elimination took an average of 10.3 rounds. So, for the same price in tournament length, we could add an extra elimination or quadruple the size of the field.

I very much like the idea of having an open World Championship. Keeping FDE allows the field to expand greatly without too many additional rounds.

If you decide to limit the field, however, I strongly recommend holding a qualifying tournament rather than using ratings to limit the field. The current ratings are subject to enormous abuse by botbashing. A player of 1500 skill who learns bait and tackle can get a 2200 rating by determinedly bashing Bomb. This is not mere speculation: Rick (rated in the 1500's) learned to beat Bomb2005Blitz in games leading up to 21338, and apparently felt so guilty about his inflated rating he intentionally lost to Arimaalon in games 21339 and 21340. There was no reason he had to give back the points, and no reason he couldn't have driven his rating sky-high.

If we make qualifying for the World Championship contingent on rating, there will be someone who does not feel guilty about bot-bashing to qualify, and that person will cost a legitimate contender a seat in the tourney. If you must limit the field to, say, 16 people, then maybe Nbarriga's idea is best: give the top 8 from the previous year's tournament automatic seeds, and let there be an open tournament to determine the other 8.

Title: Re: Bot ladder message
Post by chessandgo on May 15^th, 2006, 4:05pm

sounds good :) take care of not falling into the same trap as go and chess and give the Wchamp a seat in the final game 8)

Title: Re: Bot ladder message
Post by Fritzlein on May 15^th, 2006, 5:23pm

Yeah, if you give the champ a seat in the final game, then you at least have to have a month between the qualifying tournament and the championship game. It's ridiculous for one contestant in the climactic match to be fresh while the other is exhausted.

But anyway, the reigning champ should have to take on a variety of opponents, just like all the qualifiers do. Even if you beat the best player in the world besides yourself, that's just one other player you beat. Given the decided non-transitivity of game results, everyone should have to play against a series of different opponents to become champ.

Title: Re: Bot ladder message
Post by chessandgo on May 15^th, 2006, 8:50pm

Wouldn't have stated it better ! ;)