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        Arimaa >> General Discussion >> Commented games and pgn format
        
(Message started by: chessandgo on May 20^th, 2006, 11:51pm)

Title: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on May 20^th, 2006, 11:51pm

Hi !

I wondered : is there a tool to view a game offline ? Or even online but "fake" games ? The official format is told to be pgn, but can really one create a pgn for arimaa readable for others ? I particularly think of commented games ; it would be great if commentaries could be inserted within the game so that you don't have to have two windows opened and shift constantly when viewing a commented game.

Jean

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on May 23^rd, 2006, 12:26pm

Ok, I put my question where I know, and will try to stop polluting the forum in the future ...

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by Swynndla on May 23^rd, 2006, 4:47pm

You aren't polluting anything ... your post is a very good question ... I just don't think anyone knows any good answers. I agree, I'd love to have comments coming up as I'm playing though a game (and have to option to turn this off and on).

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on May 27^th, 2006, 10:19pm

Ok, I tried a start.
(I guess at some time, viewing commented games can also be included into the flash client?)

Please check out
http://www.maenni.com/arimaa/gameviewer.php

I included one game for now.

The next thing I want to add is the possible for everyone to upload more games and add comments.
If you want to add more games right now, you can also download the game pgn from
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/pgn.cgi

add the comments by hand behind the moves using "{" and "}" to enclose a comment, and send me the file.
(Add variants enclosed by "(" and ")".)

I guess it will also be interesting to show variants.

Please let me know of more feature you would like to have included.

I took the javascript tutorial and added more functions into the script.
Please let javascript make the complete move before going on, otherwise the boards gets messed up completely! :-)

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on May 27^th, 2006, 11:40pm

wow ... you're tackling the problem ? Great !!!

Hum, by the way I tried your webpage but it doesn't seem to work ... the only thing I have is the introductory comment by RonWeasley ...

Maybe it comes from my browser ...

great initiative anyway !!

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on May 28^th, 2006, 1:07am

Ok, fixed that hopefully.

It seems IE cannot understand string[i] in the javascript source. Firefox can! ;-)

Which browser did you use?

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by Fritzlein on May 28^th, 2006, 9:40am

I'm using Firefox, and I also can't get beyond the first move. Maybe it is because of my slow dialup connection? Thanks for working towards a new game viewer!

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on May 28^th, 2006, 11:36am

Hey, great, it works, even with Iexplorer ! but the whole board is shifted one line toward the bottom : there is actually a 9th line under the board, separed by some empty space, and the placing of pieces beings here ; it's wrong with respects with the traps thus.
I guess it's just a little bug you'll fix in a second ;)

Well done !

Jean

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on May 28^th, 2006, 11:44am

ooops, with Firefox it works allright. What makes IE print a crazy extra line and shift everything ???
Fritz : yes it's very slow, especially the first move ; maybe if you waited enough it would be ok.

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on May 28^th, 2006, 4:11pm

on 05/28/06 at 09:40:22, Fritzlein wrote:

I'm using Firefox, and I also can't get beyond the first move. Maybe it is because of my slow dialup connection?

Did you ever try the javascript version of the Arimaa tutorial?
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/learn/tutorial/

Do you have the same problem there?

If too many browsers and javacript just introduce too many problems, then I will simple write a a little java application as offline game viewer.

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on May 28^th, 2006, 5:22pm

on 05/28/06 at 16:11:27, BlackKnight wrote:

If too many browsers and javacript just introduce too many problems, then I will simple write a a little java application as offline game viewer.

It would be great as well.

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by leo on May 28^th, 2006, 8:39pm

To those who can't get past the first move:

Did you click on the game number on the left of the board? This link loads the page with the cgi parameter for this game: http://www.maenni.com/arimaa/gameviewer.php?gameid=30021

Without this parameter set, the interface only shows one move in the game history list box. I suppose it actually shouldn't show any move since no game was asked for viewing.

It works for me on IE6. I have one extra row displayed too though.

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by Fritzlein on May 29^th, 2006, 12:12pm

on 05/28/06 at 20:39:21, leo wrote:

Did you click on the game number on the left of the board? This link loads the page with the cgi parameter for this game: http://www.maenni.com/arimaa/gameviewer.php?gameid=30021

Aha, that fixes it. Very nice, BlackKnight. What is the form of the raw file the reader is displaying? Can it handle variations, or only comments on the moves actually played?

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on May 29^th, 2006, 9:11pm

on 05/28/06 at 11:36:12, chessandgo wrote:

I guess it's just a little bug you'll fix in a second ;)

Something like this! ;-)
Just one ">" missing in the html code; IE couldn't recover.

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on May 29^th, 2006, 9:18pm

on 05/29/06 at 12:12:59, Fritzlein wrote:

What is the form of the raw file the reader is displaying?

I am using the format that you get when you request the game pgn from
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/pgn.cgi

on 05/29/06 at 12:12:59, Fritzlein wrote:

Can it handle variations, or only comments on the moves actually played?

Currently only comments enclosed by "{" and "}", hopefully some time soon variations enclosed by "(" and ")".

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by leo on May 29^th, 2006, 9:52pm

The board displays fine now on IE6. The only problem left is that once the end of the game is reached the 'previous move' button won't work.

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on May 29^th, 2006, 11:44pm

on 05/29/06 at 21:52:09, leo wrote:

The only problem left is that once the end of the game is reached the 'previous move' button won't work.

Thanks, bug fixed.
I guess I should also test using IE. Firefox is "too" tolerant! ;-)

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on May 30^th, 2006, 1:07am

on 05/29/06 at 21:18:42, BlackKnight wrote:

hopefully some time soon variations enclosed by "(" and ")".

We're looking forward to this ! I wish we thought ourselves wise enough to tackle serious game analysis :)

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on May 30^th, 2006, 11:57am

on 05/29/06 at 12:12:59, Fritzlein wrote:

What is the form of the raw file the reader is displaying?

To be a bit more formal, I suggest the following:
<Game> -> <Header> \n <Movelist(1w)>
<Header> example (instead of rules):
GameId: xyz
Event: 2006 PC
Site: Over the Net
Date: yyyy.mm.dd
White: Username (Name)
Black: Username (Name)
Result: 0-1
Reason: Goal
ResultCode: b
ReasonCode: g
PlyCount: 36

<Movelist(X)> -> Ply(X) \n Ply(X+1) \n ...
for example
<Movelist(2b)> -> Ply(2b) \n Ply(3w) \n ...

<Ply(X)> -> <X> <Steps> <Comments> <Variation(X)>*

<X> and <Steps> are obvious.
<Comments> -> empty OR { <Author>: <text without "{"> }
* stands for the Kleene star, so any natural number (including 0) of variations is allowed.
<Variation(X)> -> ( <MovelistLine(X)> )

MovelistLine() is defined just like Movelist() itself, but plies are not separated by newlines but by tabs.

So variations are recursive, comments are NOT.

One other point I wanted to stress: there should be only ONE comment following DIRECTLY after the move, and THEN any number of variations.
Depending on how the parser is implemented, this keeps it slightly simpler, but I think it's also more natural to keep the comments right next to the move.

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on May 30^th, 2006, 8:20pm

It's your turn! :D

The first example with variations (although they are useless ;-))
http://www.maenni.com/arimaa/gameviewer.php?gameid=1

(I did not test it with IE.)

Comments, questions, bugs?

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on May 30^th, 2006, 8:35pm

yeah, it works with IE as well !

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on May 30^th, 2006, 8:45pm

Well, the website looks half dead these days ; your game viewer is basically the only thing happening :)

Before people quicker to understand than I am come back, could you give as an example the full pgn document which is your game n°1 ? As soon as I'm sure to have understood, I send you a game to be the first one to do so ;)

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on May 30^th, 2006, 9:24pm

and I guess you'll have to give us your email if you want us to send you files ;)

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on May 30^th, 2006, 10:12pm

on 05/30/06 at 20:45:08, chessandgo wrote:

could you give as an example the full pgn document which is your game n°1 ? As soon as I'm sure to have understood, I send you a game to be the first one to do so ;)

Here you go:

GameId: 0
Event: 2006 PC
Site: Over the Net
Date: 2006.02.27
White: TESTING
Black: TESTING
Result: TESTING
Reason: TESTING
ResultCode: b
ReasonCode: g
PlyCount: 36

1w Ra1 Rb1 Rc1 Cd1 Ce1 Rf1 Rg1 Rh1 Ra2 Hb2 Dc2 Md2 Ee2 Df2 Hg2 Rh2 {RonWeasley: Very nice escape, Anadac! This was especially vexing since I thought I had a winning position and I don't expect to get those often against you. The key at the end was that the defense I planned when your E went back to the goal threat turned out to not work. Had I realized that, I would have defended the g-file rabbit differently.}
1b ca7 mb7 hc7 dd7 ce7 ef7 hg7 dh7 ra8 rb8 rc8 rd8 re8 rf8 rg8 rh8
2w Ee2n Ee3n Ee4n Hg2n {testing} (2w Ee2n Ee3n Ee4n Ee5w 2b mb7s hg7s ef7s ef6w 3w)
2b hg7s ef7s ef6w mb7s {testing} (2b mb7s hg7s ef7s ef6w 3w)
3w Ee5w Ed5w Ec5w Hb2n (3w Hb2n Ee5w Ed5w Ec5w {comment in variation} 3b ca7s mb6n ca6n ee6s 4w)
3b ca7s mb6n ca6n ee6s (3b ee6s ca7s mb6n ca6n 4w)(3b ca7s mb6n ee6s ca6n 4w)
4w Eb5e Ec5e Ed5n Ce1n
4b ee5w mb7s dh7w dg7w
5w Ed6e Ee6s ce7s Df2e
5b dd7s ce6n dd6n ed5s
6w Ce2e Ee5n Md2e Ra2e
6b mb6s ca7s ca6s rb8s
7w Ee6w Ed6s Cd1n Cd2n
7b Cd3e ed4s mb5n rb7w {RonWeasley: I see you trying edge camel attacks lately. It takes away the usual camel hostage threat. I knew I had to handle it differently.}
8w Ce3e Ed5w Ec5w Rf1w
8b ed3n ed4w ec4w ra7s
9w ca5s Eb5w Ea5e ra6s
9b Hb3e eb4s eb3n Rb2n
10w Dc2w Hc3s Db2w Da2n
10b rc8w rb8s mb6e mc6e
11w Me2n Cf2w Cf3s Me3e
11b ra8s ra7s rb7s rd8w
12w Eb5e rb6s Ec5s Hc2w
12b rb5e eb4n Rb3n rc5e {RonWeasley: I suppose if you don't give up the cat, your elephant get boxed it, but I thought that would also tie up mine. So this surprised me.}
13w Da3e ca4s Rb4w Ce2w
13b eb5s eb4n Ra4e rd5e
14w Db3e ca3e Dc3s cb3e cc3x
14b eb5e Rb4n md6w dd7s
15w Mf3n Mf4w Me4s re5s
15b ec5e Rb5e mc6w Rc5n Rc6x
16w Me3w re4s re3e rf3x Md3e
16b ed5s ed4s ra5s ra4s
17w Cd2e Me3e Hb2n Ra1n
17b ra6s ra5s mb6s rc8w {RonWeasley: Continuing the edge camel attack. I thought you had too few resources to succeed.}
18w Hb3s ra3e rb3e Hb2n
18b ra4s rb8w ra8s ra7s
19w Re1w Ec4n mb5s Ec5w
19b re8w rd8w rc8w ra6s
20w mb4w Eb5s Mf3n Mf4e {RonWeasley: I got a different kind of camel hostage but then put my camel forward. I was trying to be a threat to your horse, but I knew I would advance the horse, so that was a mistake.}
20b dd6s dd5w hg6w hf6w
21w Hg3e Mg4s Hh3n Hh4n
21b hc7s hc6e rb8s rb7s
22w Hh5n Hh6n Rh2n Rh3n
22b rb6s he6e hf6e ce7s
23w Eb4e rb5s Mg3n Mg4n {RonWeasley: Letting the camel go because I wanted goal threats on both edges. I should have pulled a horse or rabbit.}
23b rg8s hg6e rf8e ra5e
24w rg7s Hh7w Mg5s rg6s
24b hh6w rg5e ma4n rb4w
25w Hb3n Rb1n Rb2n Rc1w {RonWeasley: Another missed chance to do something aggressive on the east side. Instead, trying to make a west side goal threat, I made Silver's viable.}
25b ma5n ma6e rb5w mb6s
26w dc5e Ec4n Hb4e Rb1n
26b mb5s mb4n Rb3n rc3w
27w Dc2n Dc3s rb3e Rb2n
27b ed3s rc3x Dc2n ed2w rh5w {RonWeasley: I nearly soiled myself here because I didn't realize how my own rabbits blocked my defense.}
28w Rd1w Ce2s Ce1w Rc1w {RonWeasley: The only defense I could find. Pursuing the goal leaves Silver with a Gold piece on all sides. Gold has enough tempo to goal on the b-file.}
28b ec2e ed2e Cf2n Cf3x ee2e
29w dd5s Ec5e hd6w hc6x Ed5n
29b Dg2n ef2e Dg3w Df3x eg2n
30w Dc3e Dd3e Ed6s Ed5w
30b Mg4w eg3n ce6w rg8w
31w Ec5e cd6w cc6x Ed5n Ed6e {RonWeasley: Taking a cat in what thought was a safe play. Other sharp lines aim at opening up the b-file or traping Silver on c3 and c6. At this point I should have watched my a-file defense closely.}
31b Mf4n eg4w rg5s rg4s
32w Cd1e Ce1e Cf1n Rg1n
32b ef4s Cf2w ef3s rf8w
33w Mf5s De3e rg3e Df3e {RonWeasley: I thought about defending this with the camel, but I thought the a-file was safe and the camel would help the h-file threat. This was where I lost it because Silver now has goal in four. Did Adanac see this? In the far future, I expect bots will find these.}
33b Ce2n ef2w ee2w ed2w {RonWeasley: Or did he try this move in the planning window and see it now? This is when I saw it.}
34w Rb3e Rc3e Hc4s Hc3w {RonWeasley: From here, I tried defenses most likely to induce a mistake. Even against the resourceful Adanac it was worth a try.}
34b Rd3w dd4s ec2w
35w Rc3n Mf4w Hb3e ra3e
35b mb5e mc5w Rc4n Hc3x ra4s
36w Me4w Md4w dd3n Rc5e
36b eb2e Ra2e ra3s ra2s
37w

on 05/30/06 at 20:45:08, chessandgo wrote:

I send you a game to be the first one to do so ;)

Great :D

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on May 30^th, 2006, 11:15pm

I still don't have your email adress, Blackknight ... well I've got something ready ;) I want the id number 0 ! (or a negative number would be fine as well :) )

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on May 31^st, 2006, 12:18pm

on 05/30/06 at 23:15:29, chessandgo wrote:

I still don't have your email adress, Blackknight

Ok, please scroll up to the top of this page and check your messages. ;-) I just send you a message with my email address. :-)

on 05/30/06 at 23:15:29, chessandgo wrote:

I want the id number 0 ! (or a negative number would be fine as well :) )

You can get 0 or some negative number, but actually you can also choose any other game id, like Jean1, Jean2, ... :-)

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on Jun 2^nd, 2006, 3:27pm

I quickly adjusted a few moves in your game, Jean.

BTW, to keep the javascript source code shorter, the program is not checking whether the moves are actually valid.

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on Jun 10^th, 2006, 6:56am

I added a very simple page to let everybody add more games or edit them:
http://www.maenni.com/arimaa/gameeditor.php

I'm not setting any file locks and when you save the file the older version (if exists) will be overwritten.
So please don't abuse this page!
And it might be a good idea to keep a local copy of your input.

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on Jun 10^th, 2006, 11:10am

wooo good ! now you have a whole self-sufficient device ;)

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on Jun 10^th, 2006, 5:15pm

There are some things I don't understand ... I wasn't able to go further than move 20 because the event, gameid etc are displayed there in between of the moves ... And after some comments the "}" appears, and sometimes not ... and in my source it seems that there is only one "}" at the end of each comment ..

I tried to change things with the editor, but the variations are just not understood as such, and the game completely messed ... I don't understand why ...

Jean

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on Jun 10^th, 2006, 5:27pm

on 06/10/06 at 17:15:45, chessandgo wrote:

And after some comments the "}" appears, and sometimes not ... and in my source it seems that there is only one "}" at the end of each comment ..

There might be a -1 or +1 missing somewhere in my source code. I will fix it quickly.

Quote:

I tried to change things with the editor, but the variations are just not understood as such

Please keep the whole variation in one single line together with its corresponding ply, then separate the plies within variations by tabs (not by newlines), and end the variation with an empty ply (like every game does).

So, each ply together with its comments and variations should be in only single line.

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on Jun 10^th, 2006, 8:56pm

To compare, you can also open the editor with game 32742b:
http://www.maenni.com/arimaa/gameeditor.php?gameid=32742b

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on Jun 10^th, 2006, 9:12pm

on 06/10/06 at 17:27:20, BlackKnight wrote:

Ok thanks, I hadn't understood ;)

It seems that your parser doesn't like the " character ... and maybe it would be nice to be able to insert new lines in comments ... maybe you could pick a special character to denote it ?
And the list of moves on the right is not usable ... do you plan to make it possible to just click on a move and get the position ?

There seem to be a little bug when undoing moves ... dead pieces reappears twice, one staying on the trap where it fell (or rather will fall :) )

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on Jun 10^th, 2006, 9:30pm

on 06/10/06 at 21:12:37, chessandgo wrote:

There seem to be a little bug when undoing moves ... dead pieces reappears twice, one staying on the trap where it fell (or rather will fall :) )

That didn't appear for me yet. But maybe you are referring to the last move of the variant to ply16w. In 19b it should be Dg6w. That's why you suddenly have two dogs there, when you undo the move! :D

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on Jun 10^th, 2006, 10:05pm

on 06/10/06 at 21:12:37, chessandgo wrote:

It seems that your parser doesn't like the " character ...

Right, I'm taking the text like it is into the html page. There, " delimits the text. So the remaining part will appear in the html source as useless junk. But maybe you can use two single quotation marks instead.

Quote:

and maybe it would be nice to be able to insert new lines in comments ... maybe you could pick a special character to denote it ?

I will think about it! ;-) Maybe for now you can just use some more tabs to generate some space.

Quote:

And the list of moves on the right is not usable ... do you plan to make it possible to just click on a move and get the position ?

This might be the ''most urgent'' next feature?! However, it's also a bit tricky when you jump back out of the variants. So, I need to think about this a little bit first. :)

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on Jun 11^th, 2006, 4:31am

on 06/10/06 at 21:12:37, chessandgo wrote:

And the list of moves on the right is not usable ... do you plan to make it possible to just click on a move and get the position ?

Ok, try it out! :D
It's not really jumping to the position, more like a fast forward, rewind.
Hope it's also fast when you have a slow connection!!

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on Jun 11^th, 2006, 9:08am

Added the famous and well commented game Fritzlein vs. Omar, 2005 Postal Championship:
http://www.maenni.com/arimaa/gameviewer.php?gameid=15552

Hope this makes it easier to replay the game and follow the comments along.

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on Jun 11^th, 2006, 12:30pm

on 06/10/06 at 21:30:10, BlackKnight wrote:

That didn't appear for me yet. But maybe you are referring to the last move of the variant to ply16w. In 19b it should be Dg6w. That's why you suddenly have two dogs there, when you undo the move! :D

I don't get it, I have Dg6w indeed ...

Hey, great ! The new features work well, and the postal Omar-Fritzl is alright ;)

Good job !

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by omar on Jun 11^th, 2006, 3:36pm

Great job on the game viewer Gerhard. It has turned out really nice.

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by Fritzlein on Jun 14^th, 2006, 2:05pm

on 06/11/06 at 09:08:05, BlackKnight wrote:

Added the famous and well commented game Fritzlein vs. Omar, 2005 Postal Championship:
http://www.maenni.com/arimaa/gameviewer.php?gameid=15552

This is extremely cool. Thank you BlackKnight. Hopefully it will inspire me and others to make more game commentary.

I tried to add a variation to game 15552 at move 5b. It shows the first move of the variation, but not the second. What am I doing wrong? Thanks in advance.

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on Jun 14^th, 2006, 9:03pm

on 06/14/06 at 14:05:58, Fritzlein wrote:

I tried to add a variation to game 15552 at move 5b. It shows the first move of the variation, but not the second. What am I doing wrong? Thanks in advance.

To simplify parsing, the parser is looking for "tabs" to separate plies in variations. I inserted them, so now you can see that all moves will be shown.

However, maybe I should drop that somewhat strange requirement and just search for the next token that begins with a number (and therefore is a plynumber).
Or I should at least change the standard behavior on tabs for this website, and let the textarea take tabs as input. Otherwise you always need to copy them from somewhere.

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on Jun 14^th, 2006, 9:25pm

And one more important point about this format:
PlyNo Steps { Comments } ( Variant1 ) ( Variant2 ) ...
The comments should be in front of the list of variants.

I only set those restrictions to simplify parsing in order to keep the javascript source code shorter. I can easily modify the code if these restrictions cause too much inconvenience.

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on Jun 15^th, 2006, 12:50am

as soon as requiered format is specified I don't think it's a major pb ;) your work is good enough for us not to complain !

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on Jun 30^th, 2006, 12:18am

added comments on some Wch games ... of course anyone's welcome to edit them ...
(there might still be a few bugs, I'll fix them tomorrow)

A complaint to BlackKnight : the variations are accessible from the previous move ; it would definitely feel more logical to access them from the move they deviate from ... but well, one just has to step backwards to look at variations ;) Still it's confusing ...

have you asked Omar for hosting your viewer ?

(oh, and I got confused by the "page unfindable" error when adding a game, and tried to get another name, so there is a trash file WCh2XXXX ...)

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on Jun 30^th, 2006, 5:32am

on 06/30/06 at 00:18:04, chessandgo wrote:

the variations are accessible from the previous move ; it would definitely feel more logical to access them from the move they deviate from ...

Hmm, I'm not sure whether this feels definitely more logical. ;)
After playing a certain move you have the choice to follow the main line, or go into some of the variations.
I copied this behavior from a popular chess game viewer.
Example: http://www.mychess.com/appletviewer/Polgar-Anand.htm

But maybe you are right, and others also feel this way.
Just let me know, then I can change it.

Furthermore I just discovered a little bug in this context:
If you choose a variation and you don't play those moves, and instead just go back to get the main line again immediately, the viewer will undo the previous move as well (one move too much!).

I will fix this -- maybe after we can decide where the variations should appear.

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on Jun 30^th, 2006, 1:31pm

well, you're probably right ;)

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on Jun 30^th, 2006, 2:14pm

and I should not even say probably :P
I hope you'll get used to my purposeless complaints, and don't mind them ;)

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on Jul 1^st, 2006, 3:07am

on 06/30/06 at 14:14:37, chessandgo wrote:

I hope you'll get used to my purposeless complaints, and don't mind them ;)

No worries, they are useful and help to improve the viewer. :)
And thanks for using the game viewer so intensively!

P.S.: I removed that tiny bug when going back after selecting a variation.

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on Jul 1^st, 2006, 7:09pm

Sometimes I get an error page when entering a game ... does it mean the parser encounters an error ? It only happens in the PMertens-99of9 game, in which there is only one variation, which I have double(dozble ?)-checked ...

apart from this I think I got rid from the bugs as well as of some analysis mistakes ...

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on Jul 1^st, 2006, 9:58pm

on 07/01/06 at 19:09:24, chessandgo wrote:

Sometimes I get an error page when entering a game ... does it mean the parser encounters an error ?

What's the error you get?

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on Jul 1^st, 2006, 10:12pm

My browser tells me : "impossible to display the page"

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on Jul 2^nd, 2006, 2:10am

haha, not bad! ;)
I removed a bug from the init function.
Please let me know if the problem persists.

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on Jul 2^nd, 2006, 12:37pm

I can't tell you, I can't access to your viewer (but no pb with your homepage maenni.com )

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on Jul 2^nd, 2006, 12:45pm

Sorry, I was just copying files around. It's online again.

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on Jul 2^nd, 2006, 1:26pm

alright ;) No, I still get this "cannot access" or whatever error when entering the first of the 'WCh' games.

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on Jul 3^rd, 2006, 4:20am

Which browser? ;)
I copied your file into a file WCh2006_22770b.pgn.
Do you have the same problem with the copy?

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on Jul 3^rd, 2006, 11:19am

oh ... well with IE it still doesn't work, but in fact with mozilla no pb ... I guess it's not important ...

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by BlackKnight on Jul 6^th, 2006, 11:33am

on 06/30/06 at 05:32:52, BlackKnight wrote:

Hmm, I'm not sure whether this feels definitely more logical. ;)
After playing a certain move you have the choice to follow the main line, or go into some of the variations.
[...]
But maybe you are right, and others also feel this way.

OK, maybe I belong to the "others" after replaying the last commented game just now. ;)
And I was thinking, how about comparing it to reading a book?
First you read the move of the main line, then you read its comment, and there might be reason given for variations, that you read afterwards (of course you also need to undo the move of the main line first).

Any other opinions/suggestions?

Title: Re: Commented games and pgn format
Post by chessandgo on Jul 6^th, 2006, 2:41pm

Yes that was exactly my point. You first want to see the actual move, then the comment telling you what the variation will be about (this doesn't work --- or, this would have been better --- or whatever), and then the variations ...

but well ... one just has to get used to get back of one move and then see the variation ...