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        Arimaa >> General Discussion >> Bot Bashing - Announce Records Here
        
(Message started by: mistre on Apr 7th, 2008, 8:36pm)
Title: Bot Bashing - Announce Records Here
Post by mistre on Apr 7th, 2008, 8:36pm
This thread is for announcing bot bashing exploits that you believe are records.  After verification, they will be added to the bot bashers hall of fame.

Please do not add commentary or start discussing/arguing about certain records in this thread.  There will be a separate thread for such discussion.
Title: Re: Bot Bashing - Announce Records Here
Post by Arimabuff on Apr 7th, 2008, 8:48pm
against ArimaaScoreP1:  
EMHHDDCRRR with silver, game 73708 in 27 moves.
EMHHDDCRRR with gold, game 73713 in 25 moves.
Title: Re: Bot Bashing - Announce Records Here
Post by Arimabuff on Apr 8th, 2008, 8:02am
against ArimaaScoreP1:    

EMHHDDCRRR with gold, game 73748 in 24 moves.

This game has been approved by both 99 and Karl.
Title: Re: Bot Bashing - Announce Records Here
Post by Arimabuff on Apr 8th, 2008, 3:50pm
against ArimaaScoreP2:    

EMHD with gold, game 73803 in 36 moves.

I've already put it on the page.
Title: Re: Bot Bashing - Announce Records Here
Post by Arimabuff on Apr 9th, 2008, 2:13pm
against Loc2005P1:    

EH with gold, game 73874 in 22 moves.
EH with silver, game 73875 in 12 moves.

I've already put it on the page.
Title: Re: Bot Bashing - Announce Records Here
Post by tize on May 4th, 2008, 5:34am
Against bot_Loc2005Blitz in game 75730 won with immobilization as gold.
Title: Re: Bot Bashing - Announce Records Here
Post by mistre on May 9th, 2008, 5:18am

on 05/04/08 at 05:34:20, tize wrote:
Against bot_Loc2005Blitz in game 75730 won with immobilization as gold.


Sorry it took so long to get your record up - I have been taking a break from bot-bashing.

It is up there now.
Title: Re: Bot Bashing - Announce Records Here
Post by mistre on Jul 28th, 2008, 3:16pm
The most recent rash of record-breaking has been recorded on the botbashing page.

Watch out for Tuks!
Title: Re: Bot Bashing - Announce Records Here
Post by 722caasi on Aug 27th, 2008, 1:30pm
In game 82329 I immobilized ArimaaScoreP1 in 17 moves as silver. !6 moves better!
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=82329
Title: Re: Bot Bashing - Announce Records Here
Post by aaaa on Aug 28th, 2008, 9:09am
I would like to lobby for keeping a list of fastest technical wins (that is, any win by either goal, elimination or immobilization) where the winner didn't lose a single piece (but not necessarily the loser as well). I think it would be more educational strategically as it would by necessity have to exclude all those meticulously constructed capturing races.
Title: Re: Bot Bashing - Announce Records Here
Post by Tuks on Aug 28th, 2008, 9:27am
i suggested when i won goal agaisnt loc without losing pieces but mistre said it was too easy...
Title: Re: Bot Bashing - Announce Records Here
Post by mistre on Aug 28th, 2008, 9:36am

on 08/28/08 at 09:09:39, aaaa wrote:
I would like to lobby for keeping a list of fastest technical wins (that is, any win by either goal, elimination or immobilization) where the winner didn't lose a single piece (but not necessarily the loser as well). I think it would be more educational strategically as it would by necessity have to exclude all those meticulously constructed capturing races.


I kind of understand where you are coming from wanting to exclude the capturing races.  However it often is the
the correct strategic move to trade pieces or even sacrifice a piece.  Even dominating games where you only lose 1 rabbit wouldn't qualify.  What you would be left with would likely be 95% of games against weak bots (when it is very easy to win without losing a piece) and only 5% of games versus stronger bots.  Seems like you would have to sift through a lot of garbage to get what you are looking for.

If your motive for this request is purely educational, you might be better served to just study the games of the highest ranked human players.

If you are truly interested in the bot games, then perhaps we only look at the P2 bots.

I am not even sure it is possible to do a search that would separate out such games.  Fritzlein - is it possible to search for what aaaa proposes?
Title: Re: Bot Bashing - Announce Records Here
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 28th, 2008, 1:11pm

on 08/28/08 at 09:36:43, mistre wrote:
I am not even sure it is possible to do a search that would separate out such games.  Fritzlein - is it possible to search for what aaaa proposes?

Hmmm, if I had the whole game database as a flat text file, I'm pretty sure I could grep out all qualifying games, but I can't think of an easy way to query my MS Access database.  This may be the first time in my life I have wished I could use regular expressions even though a relational database is available.

[EDIT]
I found the "like" operator in MS Access, which would do the regular expression, except that it is case insensitive, so it can't tell 'rf6x' from 'Rf6x'.
Title: Re: Bot Bashing - Announce Records Here
Post by Tuks on Aug 28th, 2008, 8:43pm
well, i just realized that my game against Bot Opfor qualifies for this new "fastest technical win" because i didnt lose any pieces but still goaled in 18 so be sure to add it.

i know that it sometimes is a bad idea to save your pieces and not trade off but im sure it would create new strategies and at this stage of the game, thats a good thing.

would you have to search through the database? couldnt we just add games from now on or when people give us prior games that qualify for this record. saves the effort and everyone would be satisfied
Title: Re: Bot Bashing - Announce Records Here
Post by Janzert on Aug 28th, 2008, 10:02pm
Since developer run bots are presumably changing as time goes by, I'm not sure tracking records against them makes much sense.

Janzert
Title: Re: Bot Bashing - Announce Records Here
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 29th, 2008, 4:28am

on 08/28/08 at 09:09:39, aaaa wrote:
I would like to lobby for keeping a list of fastest technical wins (that is, any win by either goal, elimination or immobilization) where the winner didn't lose a single piece (but not necessarily the loser as well). I think it would be more educational strategically as it would by necessity have to exclude all those meticulously constructed capturing races.

There are an infinite number of categories of botbashing records that could be kept.  My thought is that it is silly to add new categories unless at least two people want to compete for records in that category.  I might have the fastest win against Loc by immobilization where none of my own rabbits are allowed to move from their home squares, and I might have worked very hard to achieve that record, but if nobody else is even competing to better my achievement, it is more a quirk than a Hall of Fame listing.  In a one-person race it is easy to finish first.

There used to be a category of record for winning without losing a piece and without capturing a piece.  That was somewhat intriguing, but it turned out that only Omar really cared about it.  It was a class of records he created and tried for a few times, but nobody else took much of an interest in it.  It was correct to remove a category that inspired no competition.

If we do add a new category for no-loss wins, let's just start with one category for fastest goal.  It's not clear to me that no-loss immobilization and no-loss elimination are really that different from their less-restricted counterparts.  Maybe goaling without losing a piece but while still being able to capture opposing pieces is more naturally interesting, and will have more folks jumping on the bandwagon to try to break each other's records.  It's hard for me to judge, because I'm not very motivated to compete for any botbashing records.

So far we have Tuks lobbying for the inclusion of his own records (don't we all want our own records listed?) and we have aaaa making the academic point that no-loss fastest wins will require a different trick than giving away lots of pieces to distract the opponent.  Without entering the academic debate of how interesting such records would be, before listing them on the botbashing page I'd like to know who is going to step up and compete with Tuks.
Title: Re: Bot Bashing - Announce Records Here
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 29th, 2008, 4:31am

on 08/28/08 at 22:02:23, Janzert wrote:
Since developer run bots are presumably changing as time goes by, I'm not sure tracking records against them makes much sense.

I agree.  What if a buggy version of OpFor goes on-line and people set records against that version that are impossible to touch later against a repaired version?  Records against Gnobot would be a particular problem since 99of9 has had very experimental (i.e. weak) versions of GnoBot playing in the gameroom from time to time.
Title: Re: Bot Bashing - Announce Records Here
Post by Tuks on Aug 29th, 2008, 4:38am
that makes sense, so my record doesnt really matter because i got an easier Opfor than those who will play an improved bot


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