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        Arimaa >> General Discussion >> Help with Arimaa book
        
(Message started by: Fritzlein on Jun 29^th, 2008, 3:19pm)

Title: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Fritzlein on Jun 29^th, 2008, 3:19pm

Mistre was very kind to give me a position I could use to illustrate an elephant smother that should not be maintained. Now I have finished the draft of the chapter on elephant smothers, and am starting work on the camel hostage chapter. I already have positions from actual games to illustrate a camel hostage that has been swarmed, a "high" camel hostage (instead of Eb3 ma3, it has Ec4 mb4 Hb5), and a camel hostage where the defender can run away with the elephant and capture more than he loses at the hostage trap (so the hostage was valueless).

To complete the set, I could use:
(A) a vanilla "good" camel hostage, with with Eb3 ma3 (or rotated/reflected), and the hostage holder having an active horse on each wing and a camel not yet committed
(B) a camel hostage position where the hostage holder doesn't have an active horse to protect c6, so the defending elephant has been able to flip out a piece and capture it
(C) a camel hostage where the hostage holder is using his free camel to prosecute a goal attack in the diagonally opposite trap, so the hostage defender has to leave to stop goal but doesn't get enough compensation
(D) a camel hostage situation where the hostage defender is going to leave and make captures at home, and they aren't as much material as what he is giving up, but it makes sense to break off before matters get worse. I want this to be a little more complex than lose the hostage camel to get a horse, because I've already got one of those if need be.

I realize this is asking a lot, but remember that if the game involves you, that means your name will get mentioned in the book. (Unless you are on the losing side and want to be anonymous...) Thanks in advance.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Arimabuff on Jun 29^th, 2008, 4:40pm

I have several cases of (c) in my handicap games against different instances of Clueless2005. Or would you prefer H versus H games?

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Fritzlein on Jun 29^th, 2008, 5:47pm

HvB games will be great, as they show how much we dominate. :) Could you suggest some game numbers?

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Arimabuff on Jun 29^th, 2008, 10:29pm

on 06/29/08 at 17:47:31, Fritzlein wrote:

HvB games will be great, as they show how much we dominate. :) Could you suggest some game numbers?

The following games are all with a DDC handicap (on my part ;)) :

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=76304&s=w

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=76290&s=b

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=76182&s=b

In this one the bot is the one taking my camel hostage (and it fails) :

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=76147&s=w

In this one the bot takes my camel hostage but can't prevent me from killing its :

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=75891&s=b

In this one I take its camel hostage on F1 with my E on F2 :

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=75890&s=w

Hopefully one of them is in the ballpark.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by arimaa_master on Jun 30^th, 2008, 5:49am

on 06/29/08 at 15:19:05, Fritzlein wrote:

I have one example - game number: 76968 however I don´t know in which category it is suited.

And if you will use this example in your book I definitely don´t want to be anonymous (despite being heavily beaten in this game :)).

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Fritzlein on Jun 30^th, 2008, 6:21am

Thanks, guys. I'll take a look at these games tonight.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Soter on Jul 1^st, 2008, 2:56am

Fritzlein, could you tell us what other themes/aspects of the game are you going to present in your book? For instance, are you going to include a chapter on horse hostages,rabbit frames, goal defense, Dual Lone Elephant attacks etc. etc.? Let us know what other kind of examples you'll need and it'll be easier for us to help you. I'm going to do some digging in the database today ( or tomorrow ) in search for something interesting.

Good luck with the book! :)

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Fritzlein on Jul 1^st, 2008, 6:49am

Thanks for offering to help, Soter.

I have already completed my chapter on goal attack and goal defense, so I don't need more examples there. I didn't examine goals very deeply, partly because I don't have much expertise, and partly because it is futile to try to force goal from move 1.

I have also completed several chapters on capturing and capture defense. That is probably the most thorough part of the book, and reflects my bias as a control player.

I will not be doing a chapter on the dual-lone-elephant attack, or on any other opening theory. In my view it is pointless to discuss openings until one has a grasp of strategic themes. I've seen too many players complain that when they attack with EH in the opening they lose the horse as a hostage, but when they defend against an EH attack, they get crushed by it. It's not the opening that matters, it is understanding what you are trying to accomplish.

After Arimaa takes off, I expect someone else to write a book purely on advanced goal attack/defense, and a book on opening theory.

I haven't yet written the chapter on horse hostages and rabbit frames, so I will be needing examples of both of those. Also I will need examples of good swarms and bad swarms, weak advanced rabbits and strong advanced rabbits, as well as advanced rabbits that end up being sacrificed but are worth it for the time gained. I was going to wait to ask for help on these position until I had a clearer idea how I was going to structure the relevant chapters, so that I could say specifically what feature a position needed to have to fit in. However, it could also work the other way around: if people produce interesting positions, that could influence what I think it worth talking about, and how I want to structure the presentation.

Thanks again for your offer to help!

[EDIT]
I don't think I can have positions where an elephant holds a horse hostage and can't immediately pass it to the camel. That's more strategically advanced than I can get into in a beginner book.

candidates for positions I might use:
* horse frame that is working
* horse frame that is being broken
* elephant with horse hostage that can be passed off to camel
* camel has horse hostage for advantage
* camel has horse hostage for no advantage because camel is vulnerable
* early horse trade

I can always create such positions from scratch (and will do so if I can't find them) but it is more fun to use real games to illustrate.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Soter on Jul 2^nd, 2008, 10:31am

Oooookey, here are some:

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=33462&s=w - horse hostage with camel

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=49709&s=w - horse hostage with camel, advanced rabbits

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=48514&s=w - rabbit frames

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=62319&s=w - camel hostage

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=20888&s=w - horse frame ( camel pinned!) and complex rabbit positions

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=52322&s=w - horse frame

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=66593&s=w - early horse trade

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=62994&s=w - early horse trade ( and a lucky win !)

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=63817&s=w - shortlived horse frame, camel hostage, phant blockade...lots of action

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=27019&s=w - horse frame ( lasting ~15 moves ), cat frame, failed rabbit advancement (losses) and elephant sacrifice. Not too shabby :)

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=54134&s=w - horse frame, rabbit frames

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=58654&s=w - horse frame emerges, opens, reemerges, then disappears for good.

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=27930&s=w - horse frame ( eventually opened by camel from outside )

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=47266&s=w - dog frame, horse frame, dog frame ( a different dog this time ), cat frame - in that order :)

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=11704&s=w - frames, hostages, lots of stuff

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=26441&s=w - camel hostage

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=28716&s=w - camel hostage ( hostage holder lost the game )

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=54340&s=w - camel hostage again

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=71727&s=w - horse frame made of two horses and a rabbit herd; camel and phant free

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=42698&s=w - horse frame

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=47122&s=w horse hostage with camel, camel hostage

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=55009&s=w - too many advanced gold rabbits?

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=76482&s=w - swarm, also an unusual framed rabbit guarded by another rabbit and indirectly by phant ( near move 30 )

More coming soon ;D

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Arimabuff on Jul 2^nd, 2008, 11:44am

on 07/02/08 at 10:31:26, Soter wrote:

How the H-E (attack) Double Hockey Sticks did you get these? ???

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Soter on Jul 2^nd, 2008, 11:56am

Quote:

How the H-E (attack) Double Hockey Sticks did you get these?

Some research ( concentrating mainly on commented games of top players ) augmented by good memory.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by aaaa on Jul 2^nd, 2008, 1:04pm

Wouldn't that make a great feature, the ability to tag games?

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Soter on Jul 4^th, 2008, 8:14am

Additions to my list posted two days ago:

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=72084&s=w - rabbit frame, horse hostage, very peculiar situation after 27b: one elephant blocked, the other one off the board

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=70107&s=w - horse frame, horse hostage with elephant ( near the end )

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=77633&s=w - camel hostage

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=52031&s=w - horse frame ( unstable )

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=50980&s=w - camel hostage, rabbit frame

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=34681&s=w - horse frame

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=22019&s=w - horse frame ( quite painful for the framed side )

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=10150&s=w - horse hostage with camel

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=22668&s=w - material vs position: camel hostage for a cat

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=4296&s=w - many advanced gold rabbits in trouble ( later in the game )

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=4562&s=w - camel hostage ( interesting game, worth attention )

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=78066&s=w - horse hostage with E, many rabbit frames ( two at the same time )

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=22183&s=w - several gold rabbits dangeously close to goalline for quite a long time...albeit in vain.

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=44910&s=w - early horse trade

Miscellaneous phenomena

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=36846&s=w - camel frame

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=48672&s=w - camel frame

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=69901&s=w - elephant frame

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=41745&s=w - buried horse ( rabbit frame too )

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=56327&s=w - buried camel ( and some goal racing )

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=11123&s=w - first natural draw ( HvB game )

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=62174&s=w - suicide goal

Fritz, let me know whether they are what you need.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Fritzlein on Jul 4^th, 2008, 11:08am

Wow, thanks, for all the examples, guys. I'm sorry I didn't get around to writing this week as planned, but I'll use the long weekend to that end.

Arimaabuff, I will certainly not use the game where you dropped your elephant if you don't want me to. In any event I'm not looking for curiosities so much as typically, intelligible positions.

I'm afraid the DDC handicap games, now that I look at them, don't really illustrate the power of the camel hostage as much as the weakness of the bot in understanding the danger of the strategic goal threat. Clueless won't give up its camel, but in each of those games it could have had a fine position if it had given up its camel, because it still would have been all right materially. In other words, I'm afraid the handicap distracts from the pedagogic purpose. Sorry I didn't realize that until after I had looked at them. I did enjoy the double-camel hostage dynamic in this one, though: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=75891&s=b I'll have to remember that trick to milk time from the bot and gain steps which eventually result in capture.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Fritzlein on Jul 4^th, 2008, 11:12am

on 06/30/08 at 05:49:16, arimaa_master wrote:

I have one example - game number: 76968 however I don´t know in which category it is suited.

The position after 18g in this game illustrates the objective of the swarm more clearly than a full swarm would. I can use this to show what the hostage giver is trying to achieve.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Fritzlein on Jul 4^th, 2008, 11:42am

on 07/02/08 at 13:04:46, aaaa wrote:

Wouldn't that make a great feature, the ability to tag games?

What a great idea, aaaa! It would make my task at the present hugely easier, and I think also would be a nice research tool for newcomers without Soter's memory and patience.

Thanks for the long list of potential games, Soter, with the tags as to what makes them interesting. So far I have only scanned the camel hostage ones, since that is the chapter I am working on now.

I'm learning quickly that interesting positions are not good for a beginner book. Almost all of your camel hostage positions have the hostage-taker losing, which are good examples to study, but give the wrong impression to a beginner if they dominate the ones where the hostage-taker wins. I'm glad you included at least one "boring" camel hostage position, namely http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=77633&s=w , where chessandgo demolishes OpFor. This will game serve for both the vanilla hostage position, and the diagonally-opposite attack. Thank you!

I now have a great set of bad camel hostages to choose from, but I still need a couple of diagrams of advantageous camel hostages. I'm pretty sure I can find them among my games against bot_Arimaanator and blue22, but if anyone wants to contribute their own games I will use them in preference to having all the games in my book involve me. Remember, a boring camel-hostage demolition might be a better teaching tool for beginners than an interesting or spectacular game.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by aaaa on Jul 4^th, 2008, 12:01pm

What about my recent game against ArifSyed, 78922 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=78922)?

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Arimabuff on Jul 4^th, 2008, 12:07pm

on 07/04/08 at 11:42:48, Fritzlein wrote:

...I'm glad you included at least one "boring" camel hostage position, namely...

How about this game Karl? :

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=60588&s=b

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Soter on Jul 5^th, 2008, 2:36am

My early games with me defending the hostage ( in both cases it doesn't last too long though )

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=65146&s=w

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=52099&s=w

Games of other players

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=42821&s=w - hostage holder wreaks havoc around the opposing ( not diagonal ) trap

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=42952&s=w - hostage holder advances horses, overcomes obstacles and eventually goals

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=68627&s=w - hostage defender already lost a horse

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=62213&s=w - hostage structure survives till the very end of the game

and by the way, yet another early horse trade

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=45264&s=w

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Fritzlein on Jul 5^th, 2008, 4:24pm

Thanks for the additional choices, guys. If research were always this easy, writing a book would be a snap! The JDB vs. seanick game is a perfect example of the classic camel hostage position I wanted to illustrate, and it's a bonus that I can say it came from the 2007 World Championship. I may be able to use one or two of the others as well. Aaaa, if I use your position, may I also use your real name? It's not necessary; I have several positions already where the players are anonymous.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Arimabuff on Jul 5^th, 2008, 8:02pm

on 07/05/08 at 16:24:32, Fritzlein wrote:

What about mine?

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Arimabuff on Jul 5^th, 2008, 8:47pm

How about this game Karl? :

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=73656&s=b

Or that one? :

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=73603&s=w

Another one:

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=73445&s=b

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=73362&s=b

Double camel hostage here:

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=73257&s=b

Multiple hostage and frames here:

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=62751&s=b

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by aaaa on Jul 6^th, 2008, 6:18am

on 07/05/08 at 16:24:32, Fritzlein wrote:

Aaaa, if I use your position, may I also use your real name? It's not necessary; I have several positions already where the players are anonymous.

I don't feel comfortable enough to reveal myself, even in the potential case where I have a bot worthy enough of being entered in the championship.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Fritzlein on Jul 6^th, 2008, 6:37am

on 07/05/08 at 20:02:49, Arimabuff wrote:

What about mine?

As I said, I may be able to use one or two of the others; that included yours. And my thanks for the options included yours as well. I really do appreciate the suggestions and the choice, although I won't be able to include all of them in the book. The reason game 42952 illustrated the exact point I wanted to make in the specific paragraph I was writing at the time better than game 60588 would make that point is that in game 42952 the hostage holder had an active horse on the hostage wing, whereas in game 60588 all the hostage-holder's heavy pieces are on the opposite wing. The same-side active horse is essential if one chooses to play for control of the hostage trap, rather than choosing to play for a diagonally opposite attack. I think it is important in my discussion of camel hostages to note that control play is a viable option when one holds a camel hostage, and that swarming the diagonally opposite corner isn't, in fact, always feasible if the swarm will arrive more slowly than the hostage-giver's swarm of the hostage trap. Witness, for example, my recently completed postal mixer game against Adanac, where he took my camel hostage but his lack of an active same-side horse meant that he couldn't effectively play for control of the hostage trap, and where his diagonally-opposite attack wouldn't have been fast enough either. It is important for folks to have an additional idea in the camel hostage playbook.

Although game 60588 didn't meet the exact need of the exact paragraph I was writing, I am thankful that you suggested it. It may illustrate some other point I want to make as I continue to write about camel hostages. Also I thank you for your additional suggestions. I have reviewed them, and will keep them in mind when I am deciding what I want to say and I need an illustration for it. Thank you.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Fritzlein on Jul 7^th, 2008, 12:02pm

on 06/24/08 at 23:01:19, The_Jeh wrote:

Perhaps you could start a new thread for discussion of your book (and pre-release sneak-peeks, or I'm going to die).

As requested, The_Jeh, here is a sneak-peek. The context is that I am explaining camel hostages. I have already talked about the diagonally-opposite attack (illustrated by game 77633), and then shown how it doesn't work if the timing is wrong (illustrated by game 76968). Enjoy, and please remember this is only a draft to be polished up when I finish a draft of the whole book.

-----

The lesson to draw from this example is not that when one holds a camel hostage is a poor idea to attack the diagonally opposite trap with one's camel. The lesson is that such an attack requires the timing to be in your favor. An aware opponent (that is to say, not a computer) will be racing you as you prepare such an attack. While you roll forward on the non-hostage wing, he will be advancing defenders toward the hostage trap in hopes of freeing his elephant. If your attack is not well advanced before his elephant breaks free, you have merely handed your opponent the strongest free piece and with it the game.

Because the holder of a camel hostage can't always use his free camel to force immediate material gain and/or goal, one might refrain from taking a camel hostage for fear of losing the ensuing race. There is, however, an alternative strategy that makes camel hostages worthwhile in a different variety of situations. Instead of using the strongest free piece to race, one can use it to maintain control.

+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
8 | r | r | r | | | r | | r |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
7 | | c | c | d | C | d | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
6 | | h | * | | | * | H | |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
5 | | | H | | | h | r | |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
4 | | | | | | | | r |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
3 | r | D | * | | e | * | E | m |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
2 | R | R | M | | | C | R | R |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
1 | | R | R | D | | R | | R |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
a b c d e f g h
Figure 45
Game 42952 jdb vs seanick 27s

In the 2007 World Championship, Jeff Bacher faced Nick Harlson in an elimination game in the third round. After twenty-seven moves and no captures, Bacher achieved the position of Figure 45, with a camel held hostage and control of the entire board. Harlson is on move, still playing with a full set of pieces, but has no attractive plans.

As an inveterate control player, I have restrained myself mightily to avoid illustrating any control positions until now. The players who race are applauded for their bold attacks and smashing tactics, whereas players who get a grip on the opponent's throat and slowly squeeze are feared more than admired. It is similar in the chess world: how few are the young players who strive to emulate the brilliancies of Karpov, compared to the legions who want to be the next Kasparov? Yet I am, for now, the Karpov of Arimaa, and I demand that you gaze on the beauty of Figure 45.

Consider the deceptively simple question of where Harlson is going to make his first capture. The elephants are deadlocked at the f3-trap, so no capturing is going to occur there. Harlson's home traps are each defended by a gold horse, which can only be threatened by the silver elephant, which can't make the capture without losing the silver camel. The c3-trap likewise could be menaced only by the strategically immobilized silver elephant. Following this logic to its conclusion, Harlson will never make a capture for the rest of the game, unless he sacrifices his camel.

Bacher, meanwhile, still controls the c3-trap. It works out just fine for him that three traps are in defensive deadlock, because he has the exclusive privilege of making captures in the fourth trap. The hostage silver rabbit on a3 is doomed, whereas the hostage gold cat on e7 is not even threatened.

Racing players might wonder why the gold camel, the strongest free piece, is doing nothing, but in reality the gold camel is doing something, two somethings in fact. It is preventing the western silver horse from diving in to b3 to save the threatened silver rabbit, and it is preventing the eastern silver horse from occupying f2 to share control of the f3-trap and free the silver elephant for duty elsewhere. If the position of Bacher's camel were switched with that of either of his horses, he would actually be losing, because Harlson could abandon his hostage camel in order to capture a camel, with equal material and a favorable game. The danger inherent in exposing his camel is an added motivation for Bacher to do something with it at home rather than abroad.

Of course, only a computer would wait around as Silver for its pieces to be dribbled one by one into a sinkhole. Rather than passively accepting fate, a human player will either initiate the disadvantageous horse-for-camel trade in order to reactivate the silver elephant, or swarm pieces forward in the east in hopes of sharing control of the f3-trap. If Harlson initiates an eastern advance, however, Bacher is not obliged to try to win a race by taking over c6 with his camel, although he has that option. Bacher can instead play to frame a swarming piece in the f3-trap, or to drag a swarming piece over to the c3-trap for capture, or to push rabbits into the breach that Harlson's swarm has opened. Because Bacher has a horse advanced on the hostage side (not just the opposite side as in Figure 43), he can fearlessly move pieces forward to participate in the control fight on the hostage side. The game is not yet over, but Bacher has a flexible position with no weaknesses, and thus should have an answer to any attempted counter play.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by chessandgo on Jul 7^th, 2008, 12:26pm

I lack adjectives ... awsome :)

Having had the priviledge to take a peek at a fair part of the manuscript, I can assure you guys that the rest is just as atomic-bomb as this sample !

Go ahead, Karl ! This rocks.

(PS : "silver camel" should be changed in "gold camel" in the first sentence of before last paragraph, if I'm not mistaken.)

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by The_Jeh on Jul 7^th, 2008, 11:02pm

Professional, captivating, and inspiring...

I also apologize for using crude language to describe such a masterpiece.

Thank you.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by arimaa_master on Jul 8^th, 2008, 6:16am

Wonderful, I know for sure I will buy several copies of this book as soon as it will become available (and arimaa sets as well :)).

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Fritzlein on Jul 8^th, 2008, 8:25am

on 07/07/08 at 12:26:23, chessandgo wrote:

(PS : "silver camel" should be changed in "gold camel" in the first sentence of before last paragraph, if I'm not mistaken.)

Thank you! I have corrected it in the post and in the manuscript.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Fritzlein on Jul 8^th, 2008, 8:26am

Thank you very much for the positive comments. As soon as I posted the snippet of my writing yesterday I saw all sorts of things wrong with it, not only in grammar and word choice, but also in tone and style. By training I'm a mathematician, not a writer. As much as I enjoy writing, I'm afraid that my amateur abilities aren't up to a publishable standard. Just seeing my poor effort in a public place made me want to chuck the whole project before I make a bigger fool of myself. If you have ever heard Harry Chapin's sad song Mr. Tanner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea6cgfU8bC4), you will have some idea what I am worried about.

The support of the Arimaa community in my writing endeavor means more to me than I can possibly express. Thank you again, and again.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Arimabuff on Jul 8^th, 2008, 8:38am

on 07/08/08 at 08:26:16, Fritzlein wrote:

Karl, regardless of the subject at hand this is a very nice piece of writing and you know how critical I am of the work of others. I bet that you could write engrossing novels as well.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by arimaa_master on Jul 8^th, 2008, 10:04am

Karl, as soon as the book will be finished I can offer translation to the Czech language (and maybe try to publish it here in the Czech market - with your permission of course).

Don´t be baffled by my bad English here in the forum - my ability to translate from English to Czech is far more better than my ability to write in English just what comes to my mind without preparation.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by arimaa_master on Jul 8^th, 2008, 10:14am

on 07/08/08 at 08:26:16, Fritzlein wrote:

As soon as I posted the snippet of my writing yesterday I saw all sorts of things wrong with it, not only in grammar and word choice, but also in tone and style. By training I'm a mathematician, not a writer. As much as I enjoy writing, I'm afraid that my amateur abilities aren't up to a publishable standard. Just seeing my poor effort in a public place made me want to chuck the whole project before I make a bigger fool of myself.

Are you kidding? You are a magician of words! I bet you can even write poems like Shakespeare.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Arimabuff on Jul 8^th, 2008, 1:05pm

Karl, if I may make a suggestion when you refer to the players as Bacher and Harlson and the caption of the figure says jdb vs seanick it may become a little confusing to the reader who isn't necessary familiar with their respective handles/last names.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by aaaa on Jul 8^th, 2008, 3:38pm

Even better, just use Gold and Silver so that readers alternately looking at the text and the diagram won't have to do any conversion in their minds.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Fritzlein on Jul 8^th, 2008, 6:22pm

on 07/08/08 at 08:38:47, Arimabuff wrote:

Karl, regardless of the subject at hand this is a very nice piece of writing and you know how critical I am of the work of others. I bet that you could write engrossing novels as well.

Thank you, Patrick. The compliment is heightened not only by your finely honed critical abilities :P but also by your exquisite command of the language. You really are too kind.

on 07/08/08 at 10:04:01, arimaa_master wrote:

Karl, as soon as the book will be finished I can offer translation to the Czech language

Wow, you are encouraging my optimism to run wild. I'm worried about getting enough sales in one language to justify publication; translation into Czech is for stuff like Harry Potter. But if the sales warrant and we can get Z-man and Omar on board, I'd be thrilled to have you as the translator. Thank you for the offer. I only hope the game and book enjoy a fraction of the success you imagine.

on 07/08/08 at 13:05:59, Arimabuff wrote:

the caption of the figure says jdb vs seanick it may become a little confusing

Actually I was intending to have the caption just be Figure 45. The second caption was not to be printed; it is a note to myself so that I can find the game again to double-check that I got the position correct when I proof-read the manuscript later. (I'm not enough of a whiz with MS Word to know how to insert invisible notes.) But now that you mention it, I wonder whether I should have a second caption. If I did, I would certainly use the players' real names rather than screen names. Would a second caption belong below or above the figure number? Should it include the event as well as the players? Should it include the move number? I don't think it should include the arimaa.com database gameid, although that bit of information is the essential one for double-checking.

on 07/08/08 at 15:38:35, aaaa wrote:

Even better, just use Gold and Silver

That's a very good point, aaaa. It will certainly be easier to read if I use Gold and Silver consistently throughout, regardless of who actually played the game. On the other hand, I also want to give my readers a sense of the early history and community of Arimaa. I made a conscious decision not to write something that attempts to be abstract and eternal like a mathematics textbook, but rather something narrative and discursive, something that makes it clear Arimaa strategy not only has evolved but is still evolving, something that implies that the "right" move is a matter of taste and style, at least so far. It's a philosophical choice between emphasizing the game per se, or the game in the context of who plays it, and so far I'm leaning very heavily toward the latter.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by RonWeasley on Jul 9^th, 2008, 4:42am

on 07/08/08 at 18:22:54, Fritzlein wrote:

translation into Czech is for stuff like Harry Potter.

Actually Harry doesn't know any Czech at all. He'd never try to do the translation and we don't know of any spells that work well enough. My brother Charlie can read Czech and most Eastern European languages, but he's very busy with his dragons. I suggest having arimaa_master do the job. He says he can spell in Czech and he is a master of arimaa. Did he graduate from Durmstrang?

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by aaaa on Jul 9^th, 2008, 5:30am

on 07/08/08 at 18:22:54, Fritzlein wrote:

Ok, then how about you color the names instead, like "Bacher" and "Harlson" (possibly with a different, more contrasting local background color)?

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by arimaa_master on Jul 9^th, 2008, 6:27am

on 07/09/08 at 04:42:54, RonWeasley wrote:

Did he graduate from Durmstrang?

I´ve never studied at this institution :) - mostly because nobody offered me this (maybe this is because I don´t know anyone who is a magician, however if you have any connection with Harry or others I will be glad to learn some magic :) - coz I like movies about harry potter very much :).

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Fritzlein on Jul 9^th, 2008, 8:47am

on 07/09/08 at 05:30:19, aaaa wrote:

Ok, then how about you color the names instead, like "Bacher" and "Harlson" (possibly with a different, more contrasting local background color)?

That's a very creative idea, and one that I will seriously consider if we print in color. However, it will very likely be prohibitively expensive to do anything but black and white. I wonder if there would be some way to blacken the references to the player with the black pieces and whiten references to the player with the white pieces.

Now that I think about it, since my actual diagrams are probably going to be black and white, it is strange that I'm insisting on move numbers 1g, 1s instead of 1w, 1b. Using the terms Gold and Silver is already going to necessitate a mental conversion. I should float the idea with Omar and Z-man that I call the two players White and Black for clarity instead. But I'll bet they shoot it down because the gameroom uses gold and silver, and so will the boxed sets, so they will want consistency.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by mistre on Jul 9^th, 2008, 9:36am

on 07/09/08 at 08:47:31, Fritzlein wrote:

That's a very creative idea, and one that I will seriously consider if we print in color.

I would make the argument that to do Arimaa justice, the book needs to be in color. I think the benefits will far outweigh the costs of doing so. Also, will the diagrams contain only letters or will they have actual pictures of pieces? Hopefully, the latter, as it will be much easier on the reader to visualize what you are saying and would look much nicer too.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Fritzlein on Jul 9^th, 2008, 10:45am

on 07/09/08 at 09:36:02, mistre wrote:

I would make the argument that to do Arimaa justice, the book needs to be in color. I think the benefits will far outweigh the costs of doing so.

I was thinking about the benefits of color too, until I learned the costs. Here's one printing price I found on-line: For a black-and-white paperback, $4.55 per copy. For a full-color paperback, $16.00 per copy. That's printing cost only: retail can be as much as quadruple printing cost, although some retailers discount. I expect that most folks who will shell out $18 for a black-and-white version won't pay $64 for a full-color version, whereas there will be almost no one in the reverse category.

Quote:

Also, will the diagrams contain only letters or will they have actual pictures of pieces? Hopefully, the latter, as it will be much easier on the reader to visualize what you are saying and would look much nicer too.

Definitely I want to publish with figurine diagrams like most chess books have. For black-and-white figurine diagrams there is a one-time graphic design and layout cost, but the per-unit cost of printing the books doesn't change to go from text diagrams to graphic diagrams.

I haven't discussed the details with Z-man yet, though. He obviously knows more about publishing than I do. He might think that color is feasible or that graphic diagrams aren't. We'll see.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by aaaa on Jul 10^th, 2008, 7:03am

I always thought that there should be (two-colored) iconic representations of the Arimaa piece types, perhaps even in SVG format (cf. this (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Chess_svg_pieces)).

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 3^rd, 2008, 11:35am

French speakers: when I say "a la" as in "pie a la mode", what accent(s) do I need on the a(s)?

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Arimabuff on Aug 3^rd, 2008, 2:34pm

on 08/03/08 at 11:35:44, Fritzlein wrote:

French speakers: when I say "a la" as in "pie a la mode", what accent(s) do I need on the a(s)?

à la

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 3^rd, 2008, 5:12pm

Thank you!

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 20^th, 2008, 1:41pm

I've been writing much more slowly than I had hoped, but I'm in the home stretch now, part way through the final chapter (rabbit advancement) of my first draft. Once again, I will make up positions to suit my pedagogical purposes as necessary, but if anyone has suggestions from real games that fit the bill, it is fun to use them.

What I am looking for at present is a position with an elephant pinned to a rabbit in an opposing trap, when the friendly camel advances on the outside and breaks the pin, taking up a strong corner position. I know Adanac has done this, but probably other people have done it as well and I just can't remember the games.

Another position I might find useful would be advanced rabbits enabling a camel to attack, blue22-style, in a position where a lone camel would just get taken hostage.

Thanks for anything you might want to contribute, but again, it's not at all necessary.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Soter on Aug 21^st, 2008, 10:50am

Right now I do not have as much as I want in terms of free time, but I'll do search some games tomorrow...

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 21^st, 2008, 12:57pm

By the way, Soter, I also used two of the horse frame games you linked and forgot to thank you. Thank you! If you give me another few positions, you should include some of your own games so I can make you famous as a reward.

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Soter on Aug 22^nd, 2008, 12:35pm

Specific instances of your second theme ( "rabbit-supported" camel) pop out a tad more often than the camel-breaks-the-frame thing. On the other hand I've examined only about twenty games this evening, so what do I know :P .

Here we go: M supported by R/Rs

Good examples

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=79969&s=w

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=41087&s=w

Weaker examples

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=15521&s=w (also camel hostage )

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=39519&s=w

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=43983&s=w

Bonuses

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=18286&s=w ( camel frame )

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=15736&s=w ( camel frame, some hostages )

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=23083&s=w ( early horse trade )

Quote:

If you give me another few positions, you should include some of your own games so I can make you famous as a reward.

Cool :). I'll tackle the rabbit frame theme soon and also give you my "ticket to fame" games ;D.

Quote:

I also used two of the horse frame games you linked and forgot to thank you.

Which ones? Just curious...

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Tuks on Aug 22^nd, 2008, 1:45pm

why dont you ask blue to give you some games ;)

he has all the camel/rabbit attacks it seems

Title: Re: Help with Arimaa book
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 23^rd, 2008, 12:50pm

on 08/22/08 at 12:35:33, Soter wrote:

Which ones? Just curious...

Let's see, I already said I used 77633, 76968, and 42952. Since then I used 54340, 47122, 33462, and 27019 from your suggestions, plus about ten positions from my own memory and research. Thank you very much for the wide selection of positions to choose from. (The book will be heavy on positions where I was one of the players.) Also thank you for your recent suggestions; I will look them over shortly. This is invaluable help because the writing is much less dry with real positions as opposed to positions I composed to prove a point.