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        Arimaa >> General Discussion >> Arimaa on Youtube
        
(Message started by: The_Jeh on Aug 25th, 2009, 8:40pm)
Title: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by The_Jeh on Aug 25th, 2009, 8:40pm
I took the liberty of adding the 2009 WC final game to Youtube. Perhaps one day I will do audio commentary on a game. Unless of course somebody else feels inspired?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRrPS9Wtvy8
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by chessandgo on Aug 26th, 2009, 12:55am
hey, that's nice! How about adding the 08 final game? It was a fun game as well.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by The_Jeh on Aug 26th, 2009, 4:53am
That would only be fair. I will do so.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by chessandgo on Aug 26th, 2009, 5:46am
It's definitely a nice idea to have arimaa videos. Maybe we should plan to have all the final WC games (it's you who are working and it's me who's trying to bury you under more work :)).

As for the commentaries, go ahead if you want to do it, it's your idea! If you want help I should be able to do one game at least.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by The_Jeh on Aug 26th, 2009, 6:52am
Doing a commentary is a big undertaking, especially without having the aid of computer analysis as chess commentators do. I could make a few videos on simple Arimaa ideas if I could find the appropriate positions. I doubt I'll get to it anytime soon, but feel free to create one yourself if you so desire.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by The_Jeh on Aug 26th, 2009, 2:30pm
Okay, I've added the 2005-2008 championships as well as the 2007 One vs. The Mob game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_eF8YqCGqM (2005)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jlbfes7Cmi4 (2006)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmrKQLswLNs (2007)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLdHUQuF5_8 (2008)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wu2vKf_l_s (Mob)

I wasn't quite sure what to do with the 2004 Championship. The game which secured the match for Belbo was won on time. Include it anyway, I guess? Or go with the first game of the match?
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by chessandgo on Aug 26th, 2009, 3:11pm
that's nice!

I gave the commentary video a try tonight. That's a 135mn video, pretty long. I hope my english accent is not too bad (it definitely is during the first 15 or 20 mns of the video but hopefully gets better as I get warmer).

I wonder in which format to export it. I'm using camtasia studio, which seems to be exporting in any format but mpeg (which is recommended for utube if I understood properly?). So is a .avi or .wmv or .flv video ok?

btw, the expert mode seems not to work with completed games. I did not realize it before, but for a game commentary it's very painful,  I keep moving my mouse around a lot and trying to tell moves that I should rather play for clarity ... Or does the expert mode work in comlpeted games as well and I did not use things properly?
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by The_Jeh on Aug 26th, 2009, 6:47pm
A 135 minute commentary? Wow, is that true? You know, Youtube generally has a 10 minute limit for each video. So you'd probably have to split it into 14 parts. I use .wmv, and it works fine, so I would recommend that.

As far as the expert mode, you are right. I can get neither expert mode nor a plan window for completed games under any client.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 26th, 2009, 9:24pm
I can't get expert mode to work on completed games either, but I can get a plan window on completed games with a URL like
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/showGame.cgi?gid=105164&s=w
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by chessandgo on Aug 26th, 2009, 11:45pm
ah, correct, I had not realized that the plan window worked now with the V2 version as well! That's nice, I should have used it perhaps, even though a new window loading is not as convienient as the expert mode, which is definitely a great feature.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by chessandgo on Aug 27th, 2009, 12:01am

on 08/26/09 at 18:47:28, The_Jeh wrote:
You know, Youtube generally has a 10 minute limit for each video. So you'd probably have to split it into 14 parts. I use .wmv, and it works fine, so I would recommend that.


Ah, I could not find a reference to size or length limit (never used utube before), are you sure about the 10mn rule? Or is a rule of thumb and do I need to try it to see how long I can get a video? It's gonna be painful to export it in 14 parts. I guess I will have to make a few seconds overlap between consecutive parts, and look for proper places to cut (which there probably aren't ^^).
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by The_Jeh on Aug 27th, 2009, 5:40am
Only Youtube Partners may exceed 10:59. Maybe this time you could just put the whole file up for download somewhere, and then next time keep the 10:59 in mind? Or if you wish to just cut it up, that would work, too. Considering you had no trouble in reaching 135 min, the creation of a 10-min clip in the future should be a cakewalk, as long as you can bear leaving a "few" things out.  :)
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 27th, 2009, 7:24am
I think MotionBox doesn't limit the length, even though it is free like YouTube.  Katie used it to store some of her hour-long piano lessons, just for her own use, but I think you can share a public link too.  I am very eager to hear your commentary, Jean!
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by chessandgo on Aug 27th, 2009, 7:40am
ah, I tried Motionbox, they have a 300mb limit per video. I'm going to encode the video to be sure (in .flv perhaps, as they seem to advise it for slow motion online videos and that's what I usually use), but I fear it's gonna much much bigger than that (around 150 MO maybe, which wouldn't even fit in the 750MB free space alloted :( at least it should fit in the 2GB free space alloted at youtube ... hmm, that turns out to be more complicated than expected :-)


You mention putting the file up for download The_Jeh, how can I do that?
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Janzert on Aug 27th, 2009, 7:45am
Sounds like you may not fit in this limit either, but just in case vimeo.com has a 500MB size limit with no time limit.

Janzert
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 27th, 2009, 7:47am

on 08/27/09 at 07:40:04, chessandgo wrote:
ah, I tried Motionbox, they have a 300mb limit per video. I'm going to encode the video to be sure

Yes, all you have is audio and a low-difficulty video.  That should be highly compressible to get under the size limit.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by chessandgo on Aug 27th, 2009, 8:47am
let me check : 1MO= 8MB, correct?

I've tried .flv, which gives a 323 MO file (oops), .swf 111MO (sitll too big for the 500MB cap and with like 1 image per second, pretty ridiculous), I'm gonna try other formats (or maybe decrease quality parameters if I manage to understand what's going on), which format do you think would fit with the limit Fritz?
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by chessandgo on Aug 27th, 2009, 9:33am
wait, 1MB=1MO ?? So everything's fine! :)

I'll use .wmw, seems like the video is ok and not so big (160 MO)
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Janzert on Aug 27th, 2009, 11:22am
I'm not sure what MO stands for. MB is generally megabytes.
One thing to watch out for when dealing with video (or audio) is that frequently rates are expressed in bits, e.g. a 3 megabits per second rate. There are 8 bits in a byte so a division by 8 is required to get from the bits rate to the bytes rate.

Janzert
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 27th, 2009, 11:48am

on 08/27/09 at 08:47:03, chessandgo wrote:
which format do you think would fit with the limit Fritz?

The format doesn't determine the compression.  An flv file could contain video that is uncompressed or highly compressed, and could even contain files compressed with different video codecs.  The compression is determined by which codec you use and what settings you choose for the encoding, with greater compression generally reducing quality in some way, i.e. perhaps by making the video blurry or pixelated rather than by reducing the frame rate.

Can you check whether you are using the H.264 codec?

For the video of the game board, most of the board does not change from one frame to the next, so the compression can consist of "use the previous frame with this minor modification", i.e. only the change between frames must be encoded, not the entire frame.  Furthermore the change is in the form of a block of pixels sliding without changing internally, which is an easy change to encode.   So for this video, we should get great compression with little quality loss.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Arimabuff on Aug 27th, 2009, 12:03pm

on 08/27/09 at 11:22:54, Janzert wrote:
I'm not sure what MO stands for. MB is generally megabytes...

MO is actually French for MB.  ;)
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Arimabuff on Aug 27th, 2009, 12:15pm

on 08/27/09 at 11:48:18, Fritzlein wrote:
...For the video of the game board, most of the board does not change from one frame to the next, so the compression can consist of "use the previous frame with this minor modification", i.e. only the change between frames must be encoded, not the entire frame...

That's actually true of most films unless there's a lot of panning and even then it's rather scarce otherwise it would give people a headache. But I agree that in the case of Arimaa most images are even IDENTICAL to the ones preceding them and that means the overall compression will be enormous.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by chessandgo on Aug 27th, 2009, 1:24pm
ah, thanks, I hadn't realized" octet" was a french word. I though the "b" in "mb" stood for bit and not byte.

I understand what you say Fritz, but do I need to choose a particular setting to order the thing to encode each frame with regards to the changes from the previous one or is it done automatically?

as for the codec I used for .flv files, it's VP6, and I can change it to H.263 only. Should I try the H.263?
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 27th, 2009, 2:39pm

on 08/27/09 at 13:24:42, chessandgo wrote:
ah, thanks, I hadn't realized" octet" was a french word.

Octet is an English word too.  I have heard it used mostly with IP addresses, e.g. "the second octet of 66.196.90.212 is 196".  It took me a long time to figure out that octet meant eight bits, after which I wondered why they didn't just call it the second byte.  :P


Quote:
I though the "b" in "mb" stood for bit and not byte.

Usually 'B' is for byte and 'b' is for bit, so 8 Mb = 1 MB.


Quote:
I understand what you say Fritz, but do I need to choose a particular setting to order the thing to encode each frame with regards to the changes from the previous one or is it done automatically?

It should be done automatically.  I was just explaining why I thought you would not lose a lot of quality if you chose a high level of compression.  What are the compression settings you can change?  Does the quality get much worse when you try to compress more?


Quote:
as for the codec I used for .flv files, it's VP6, and I can change it to H.263 only. Should I try the H.263

Hmmm, both codecs are obsolete. :o  I don't really have experience, but I suppose VP6 should be fine since it has motion compensation, which is the main thing.  I don't suppose the latest whistles and bells in H.264 are very relevant for this particular task.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Arimabuff on Aug 27th, 2009, 5:08pm

on 08/27/09 at 14:39:42, Fritzlein wrote:
Octet is an English word too.

Actually, I never said that Octet wasn't an English word. I said that MO was French for MB which is true. I have never seen MO being used in a book in English in lieu of MB.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by chessandgo on Aug 27th, 2009, 11:39pm
ok, thanks for your explanations guys!

Well, anyway using .wmv seems to produce something fine fitting the limits, so I'll upload the video today and post the url when it's completed.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by chessandgo on Aug 28th, 2009, 5:17am
Ok, so the video is available at:

http://www.motionbox.com/videos/7a98dbb31b1fe8caf5?iid=switch_player_&type=sd

apparently there are only 2 ways to scale the video, one smaller than original size and full screen. I should have only recorded the board and the surrounding buttons, not the whole window :( I hope it's fine anyway.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by The_Jeh on Aug 28th, 2009, 6:57am
That's more than fine; that's outstanding! I've linked to it on the Youtube video.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by camelback on Aug 28th, 2009, 8:39am
WOW, 5 min commentary just for the setup!!!! :o Thank you chessandgo  for sharing all your insights.

Thank you Jeh for the initiative.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 28th, 2009, 10:58am
What a treat!  Jean, your commentary is of phenomenal quality.  I can't believe you just sat down and rapped out a gem like this.  Please tell me that you had previously analyzed this game for days, and you were just reading from your copious analysis notes.  Otherwise, if these thoughts are your stream of consciousness, it will be (and has been) impossible for me to stay competitive with you.  You are on a higher plane of Arimaa thought.

This is a great gift you have given the Arimaa community.  I posted a link to it on Board Game Geek, so that people there can easily get an inkling of the depth and variety of Arimaa.  Perhaps I should also cross-post it to the "It's all about the elephant" thread.  This is exactly the sort of contribution that will take Arimaa from being perceived as just another game to being perceived as something truly special, like a rival to chess.

This video is too valuable to be buried just in this thread.  I hope it can be linked from various places that will continue to be seen in the future, so that it becomes a standard part of the resources available to every student of Arimaa.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by chessandgo on Aug 28th, 2009, 12:47pm
Thanks The_Jeh and camelback, thanks a lot Fritz, that's very kind of you :-)

But I fear I am not on a higher plane of arimaa thoughts, it's all much easier to say in retrospect after having seen how it turned out. It's also actually a good way to polish our own thoughts to express them to others, for instance I think I'll have a clearer mind on rabbit pulling with respect to strong side / weak side after having made this video.

If you guys like the videos as a way to speak about arimaa (and I think that should be indeed, it's already kind of standard at poker), then we should make more. I'm sure I will be able to return your compliments then, Fritz :)
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by The_Jeh on Aug 28th, 2009, 1:42pm

on 08/28/09 at 12:47:52, chessandgo wrote:
If you guys like the videos as a way to speak about arimaa (and I think that should be indeed, it's already kind of standard at poker), then we should make more.


Videos can't replace written commentary and dialogue, of course, but the simple fact is that they are much easier to follow than a text that describes the movement and position of pieces rather than showing it pictorially. And needless to say after watching c&g's video, they can be highly entertaining. For this reason, they could be valuable not only for teaching, but for retaining players who find reading through many lines of notation daunting.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Arimabuff on Aug 28th, 2009, 3:04pm

on 08/28/09 at 10:58:49, Fritzlein wrote:
...This video is too valuable to be buried just in this thread.  I hope it can be linked from various places that will continue to be seen in the future, so that it becomes a standard part of the resources available to every student of Arimaa.

Maybe Omar could put a link on the game room page, in the announcements' section for example.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 28th, 2009, 5:39pm

on 08/26/09 at 15:11:08, chessandgo wrote:
I'm using camtasia studio

Apparently Camtasia Studio retails for $300.  Although I want to jump in and follow chessandgo's stellar opening act, the price tag is a bit too steep.  However, CamStudio apparently offers similar functionality for free.  Has anyone tried CamStudio?  John, what did you use for your YouTube videos?
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by The_Jeh on Aug 28th, 2009, 10:01pm

on 08/28/09 at 17:39:54, Fritzlein wrote:
 John, what did you use for your YouTube videos?

Windows Media Encoder 9
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=5691ba02-e496-465a-bba9-b2f1182cdf24&displaylang=en

It's pretty self-explanatory, but let me know if you have questions.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Arimabuff on Aug 29th, 2009, 4:43am
I hope we'll have many more of these videos. This was really engrossing. Two thumbs up!!!
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 29th, 2009, 6:39am

on 08/26/09 at 21:24:54, Fritzlein wrote:
I can't get expert mode to work on completed games either, but I can get a plan window on completed games with a URL like
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/showGame.cgi?gid=105164&s=w

I figured out how to get the expert mode to work.  First make sure you open the game with &client=2 appended to the URL, as in http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/showGame.cgi?gid=105164&s=w&client=2

Second, the game window can't handle branches, it can only handle a move list.  If you are in the middle of replaying a completed game, expert mode would be like adding a branch.  So you need to open a plan window from the position you want to continue.  If you pause the screen capture before opening the plan window, it isn't a huge disruption.  Then in the plan window you are extending the move list rather than branching, so the expert mode works again.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by chessandgo on Aug 29th, 2009, 8:26am
ah, that's nice.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by aaaa on Aug 29th, 2009, 4:14pm
Add my compliments for the video as well. Especially the strategic conceptualizations that took place proved to be a real eye opener:

  • Weak and strong sides with respect to rabbit pulling.
  • "Space advantage"
  • Classifying the playing styles of both yourself and your opponent, which if I got the gist of it right, could be summarized as being "dynamic" (efficient in pursuing goals) and "static" (mindful of the distribution of force) respectively.

The only downside is that it made me realize how pathetically close my own strategic insight of the game is to that of a mere bot.

Required hearing for anyone who doubts the depth of this game. I say chop it up for YouTube for an even bigger audience.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 29th, 2009, 4:39pm

on 08/28/09 at 22:01:16, The_Jeh wrote:
Windows Media Encoder 9

Thanks, John.  Windows Media Encoder 9 worked great for me.

I thought I should probably create a script to read from, but that seemed like too much work, so I tried to see whether I could talk about a game off-the-cuff like chessandgo.  The results are hilarious.  I leave pieces hanging in my analysis, play terrible analysis moves, and fail to talk about the critical lines at all.  I can never remember why I thought a position was good or bad.  I just created a hundred minutes of rambling in which you can't trust anything I say, even though I analyzed that game for hours and hours while playing it.  Trying to create my own game commentary only reinforces my amazement at the quality of chessandgo's off-the-cuff analysis of a game he only spent a couple of hours playing.

I have uploaded my video to MotionBox for your amusement, but I will have to take it down soon when I try again for something that is actual analysis instead of incoherent thoughts.  Also, I had compressed it heavily to keep it down to a size of 50MB, but MotionBox "optimized" (compressed) it even further, lowering the quality to terrible.  Oh, well, it was good practice.

You can enjoy my analysis errors, or better yet, skip this video entirely and wait for me to get a good one posted.

http://www.motionbox.com/videos/7a98dbba1016e2cbf5
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Janzert on Aug 29th, 2009, 8:01pm
Wow, just got through Chessandgo's video. That was truly amazing to watch.

Now that both Fritzlein and Chessandgo are trying out making videos I'd love to see them both make a commentary on the same game. Maybe even by making the video and commentary during the course of a live 'exhibition' game between them. It would probably require a fairly long time control since I imagine trying to vocalize what is going on while also playing would be quite difficult.

Janzert
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 29th, 2009, 8:34pm

on 08/29/09 at 20:01:52, Janzert wrote:
Now that both Fritzlein and Chessandgo are trying out making videos I'd love to see them both make a commentary on the same game. Maybe even by making the video and commentary during the course of a live 'exhibition' game between them. It would probably require a fairly long time control since I imagine trying to vocalize what is going on while also playing would be quite difficult.

Ha, that would be very fun.  We could each have our screen capture on, and just blabber whatever we were thinking.  It would be a hoot to replay the different perspectives.  Of course, my blunders will look even dumber when I try to justify them as I am playing them, but I can handle looking foolish.  I think ninety seconds per move would be great; otherwise the video gets too long.  If the commentary is terrible because we are distracted by playing, well, what did you expect?
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by chessandgo on Aug 30th, 2009, 1:45am

on 08/29/09 at 16:14:52, aaaa wrote:
I say chop it up for YouTube for an even bigger audience.


that's quite some work if I want to do it right, I'm not sure I'll find the will to do it soon
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by chessandgo on Aug 30th, 2009, 2:16am

on 08/29/09 at 20:34:18, Fritzlein wrote:
Ha, that would be very fun.  We could each have our screen capture on, and just blabber whatever we were thinking.  It would be a hoot to replay the different perspectives.  Of course, my blunders will look even dumber when I try to justify them as I am playing them, but I can handle looking foolish.  I think ninety seconds per move would be great; otherwise the video gets too long.  If the commentary is terrible because we are distracted by playing, well, what did you expect?


Same from here :) Looks definitely fun.

I think I should have some free time in spite of the start of the school year. I guess the week-end is the easier time, so I'm available today, but I'm leaving to Danemark on next week-end. Anyway I'll be available starting from Saturday 19.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by chessandgo on Aug 30th, 2009, 2:41am
I've watched over an hour of your video Fritz; it's actually great!

Your speech is excellent, so much better than mine. If you've hung pieces I've missed it as well (and I guess it'd be normal anyway, I think I've missed a few one-move captures in my video, nvm) :)

Anyway if there is some part that you think is wrong, you can probably just record again the 30 sec or 2 mn or w/e and replace the old segment with new analysis (at least with camtasia it's possible, I guess it should be as well with your Windows media encoder). Now I know very well that it's a much more painful process than it sounds, not only technically, but at least that's a possibility.

anyway congrats, your video is very pleasant to listen to, I think we can be happy of our first shot with videos, that was a great idea by The_Jeh.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by chessandgo on Aug 30th, 2009, 3:36am
Just finished watching the video; it's definitely awesome.

The only comment I have is around 28mn:00, you consider hostaging the b5 caMel by pushing it to a5, but instead h a5 to b4 kills the game. (the whole line : deviate on 15s by framing the Horse, 16g gold's caMel dives in, 16s Ra4s ha5se ra6s)

I thought the same thing should work at 30:00 (game after 16g), ie that framing the Horse on 16s should result in silver being able to get a hb4 without gold's caMel to be able to move away from b5, but apparently 17g Dc2nww Rc1n works for gold.

Oh btw, I'm a taker for any comment arimaa-related, speech-related, or pronounciation related on my video.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Arimabuff on Aug 30th, 2009, 8:59am

on 08/30/09 at 01:45:23, chessandgo wrote:
that's quite some work if I want to do it right, I'm not sure I'll find the will to do it soon

I don't think it's worth your time. This kind of video is for people who already have some knowledge (more than some actually)of the game and therefore know about this site. On Youtube, you need something much simpler, much more basic. I say keep them coming the way you do and we can post links to them here on the site, maybe even a generic link to all of them on the main page of the game room.

What do you respond to that Fritz ? Wouldn’t that be a good idea?
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 30th, 2009, 2:27pm
Recording live thoughts on both sides of a game would surely be for entertainment rather than education, and more entertaining for experienced players to watch rather than beginners.  Part of the reason that I am interested in the idea is that it sounds fun for the players too, and less work than coherent instruction.

Instructional videos targeted at beginners would be much more useful for popularizing Arimaa, but they are hard work.  It isn't easy to just sit down and record, as I have discovered.  In fact, I think the people most suited to make videos for popularizing Arimaa are the ones who have the patience and dedication to do it.  You should try your hand at it, Patrick. You certainly know more than enough to make videos that are very useful to new learners.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Arimabuff on Aug 30th, 2009, 4:08pm

on 08/30/09 at 14:27:24, Fritzlein wrote:
Recording live thoughts on both sides of a game would surely be for entertainment rather than education, and more entertaining for experienced players to watch rather than beginners.  Part of the reason that I am interested in the idea is that it sounds fun for the players too, and less work than coherent instruction.

Instructional videos targeted at beginners would be much more useful for popularizing Arimaa, but they are hard work.  It isn't easy to just sit down and record, as I have discovered.  In fact, I think the people most suited to make videos for popularizing Arimaa are the ones who have the patience and dedication to do it.  You should try your hand at it, Patrick. You certainly know more than enough to make videos that are very useful to new learners.

I may have the will to make such videos and forgive my presumption even the skills but what I am dearly lacking is the material. My computer is an old XP thing from 2001 that can barely keep it together long enough to let me watch one of these movies or play an entire game without freezing for minutes at a time. It would be unrealistic to expect it to sustain the sophisticated programs that the making of such videos requires. So regrettably, until I can afford a better computer I will have to decline the offer.

The question I put to you on the other hand was about putting a link on the main page of the game room to access all these videos. I am assuming that someday there'll be dozens of them and it would be nice to be able to list them all at once.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 30th, 2009, 4:27pm

on 08/30/09 at 16:08:15, Arimabuff wrote:
The question I put to you on the other hand was about putting a link on the main page of the game room to access all these videos.

Oh, I am all in favor of prominently linking chessandgo's video.  But if my video is going to be in any "official" collection, I definitely need to redo it.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Arimabuff on Aug 30th, 2009, 5:25pm

on 08/30/09 at 16:27:18, Fritzlein wrote:
...But if my video is going to be in any "official" collection, I definitely need to redo it.

I'd bet my bottom Euro that you are the only one who thinks that. Your video belongs to the world now, it would be a crime to delete it.  :)
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by lightvector on Aug 30th, 2009, 6:10pm
:o

Those were both amazing videos. Lots of great ideas. Fritzlein: after watching that video, I think I understand now the reason you keep claiming that there might be 2700 or even higher rated players in the future as humans keep improving at Arimaa. The vast space of unexplored strategy is definitely still there.

Wow.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 30th, 2009, 8:14pm

on 08/30/09 at 18:10:25, lightvector wrote:
Fritzlein: after watching that video, I think I understand now the reason you keep claiming that there might be 2700 or even higher rated players in the future as humans keep improving at Arimaa. The vast space of unexplored strategy is definitely still there.

You can say that again.  RonWeasley and I were the top two finishers in the 2008 Postal Tournament, and in our game against each other there were six certifiable tactical blunders, three by each of us.  The game chessandgo commented on had the bad mutual piece blunder (three times by me!), directly following chessandgo's tactical blunder to launch a premature goal attack thinking I couldn't take his rabbit.  And that was the World Championship game, the highest level this community is capable of playing!  I recall following one of the KvK chess World Championship matches, and it was a huge deal when one player made one piece blunder in one game out of the twenty-four.

Furthermore, as you have noticed, it isn't just the tactical blunder level.  Strategically we don't know what is going on either.  I couldn't figure out whether I wanted to frame RonWeasley's horse or not.  Chessandgo pointed out that he made me advance my rabbit on the camel wing, but later thought that was actually helping me.  etc. etc. etc.  So not only do we miscalculate about achieving our ends, we also can't figure out what ends we are trying to achieve.

The 2700 level is a bare minimum of what we can be sure is achievable given our current Arimaa knowledge, but reviewing these games is convincing me that a 3000 rating is in the cards for someone who builds on what we already know and really studies Arimaa seriously.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 30th, 2009, 8:25pm

on 08/30/09 at 02:41:25, chessandgo wrote:
Anyway if there is some part that you think is wrong, you can probably just record again the 30 sec or 2 mn or w/e and replace the old segment with new analysis

Apparently swapping in and out segments is possible after uploading to MotionBox, so probably that is what I will try first.


on 08/30/09 at 03:36:41, chessandgo wrote:
The only comment I have is around 28mn:00, you consider hostaging the b5 caMel by pushing it to a5, but instead h a5 to b4 kills the game.

Yeah, I noticed that when replaying.  That's one of the more embarrassing things, and the first thing to fix.  Or rather the second thing to fix after the hanging piece.  (I'm glad you at least missed that :P)


Quote:
anyway congrats, your video is very pleasant to listen to, I think we can be happy of our first shot with videos, that was a great idea by The_Jeh.

Thanks for the kind words, and I agree that The_Jeh has started something fun rolling.  Too bad I probably won't be able to work on it more before Thursday.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by chessandgo on Aug 30th, 2009, 10:41pm

on 08/30/09 at 17:25:59, Arimabuff wrote:
I'd bet my bottom Euro that you are the only one who thinks that. Your video belongs to the world now, it would be a crime to delete it.  :)


I'm backing this up :)
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Fritzlein on Sep 7th, 2009, 8:50pm
I have fixed (I hope!) my horrible blunders of commentary and posted the re-mixed video here:

http://www.motionbox.com/videos/7a98dbba101de9cbf5

In the new commentary I several times show explicitly how the moves I suggested in the earlier commentary lose outright.  Not that I really know what the right moves are in the positions of the game, but perhaps I am no longer spouting absurdities.

It turns out that producing useful analysis is a lot of work.  I spent most of the day on fixing this up.  I'm glad I put in enough time on this video that I can now feel it is enlightening more than misleading.  Also I learned a bit about screen capture and splicing videos.  Nevertheless, I don't think I'll be doing it again any time soon, because it is so time-consuming.

I am left to wonder again whether chessandgo can produce expert analysis because he is so talented, or whether he is so talented because he puts in the work necessary to produce expert analysis.  :P
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Arimabuff on Sep 8th, 2009, 4:16am

on 09/07/09 at 20:50:04, Fritzlein wrote:
...I am left to wonder again whether chessandgo can produce expert analysis because he is so talented, or whether he is so talented because he puts in the work necessary to produce expert analysis.  :P

Isn't that like the chicken and the egg paradox?   ;)

Thanks for the new video; I'll watch it asap. :)
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by RonWeasley on Sep 8th, 2009, 8:57am

on 09/07/09 at 20:50:04, Fritzlein wrote:
I have fixed (I hope!) my horrible blunders of commentary and posted the re-mixed video here:

http://www.motionbox.com/videos/7a98dbba101de9cbf5

In the new commentary I several times show explicitly how the moves I suggested in the earlier commentary lose outright.  Not that I really know what the right moves are in the positions of the game, but perhaps I am no longer spouting absurdities.


I haven't watched this yet, but I'm eager to find out what I was thinking.  I'm imagining commentary like, "Look at the kind of idiot I have to play against.  Somebody slap me!"

Thanx for considering one of my games as worthy.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Fritzlein on Sep 8th, 2009, 11:53am

on 09/08/09 at 08:57:31, RonWeasley wrote:
I haven't watched this yet [...]

It was a good decision to wait.  Now you don't have to listen to 90 minutes of the same stuff to get the 22 minutes of corrections.


Quote:
[...] but I'm eager to find out what I was thinking.

I would also like to know what I was thinking.  Again and again when I looked at the moves I played, I could not remember why I did what I did, nor figure it out again in retrospect.



Quote:
Thanx for considering one of my games as worthy.

Thanks for playing so many creative/strong moves.  I think I would still enjoy playing Arimaa against someone who thought the same way that I do, but it wouldn't be nearly as much fun as contending with a different perspective.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Simon on Sep 9th, 2009, 7:58am
I didn't notice any difference, though I could just be unobservant. I can't compare directly since the old one is now private.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Fritzlein on Sep 9th, 2009, 3:56pm

on 09/09/09 at 07:58:53, Simon wrote:
I didn't notice any difference [...]

The curse of the perfectionist: staying awake at night worrying about things that nobody else even notices.  :P


Quote:
[...] the old one is now private.

If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by omar on Sep 11th, 2009, 8:00am
I had not been keeping up on the forum while working on the JavaScript client, so it was a pleasant surprise to see this thread with so much activity.

Fantastic videos. I just finished watching them; it really brings the game to life to see such commentary along with the moves. I really love that French accent Jean; and your English is very good.

Nice use of the plan feature Karl. The tabbed windows make it very easy to switch back and forth between the main line and alternative lines. I wish the browser window was a little wider so it shows the captured pieces.

I think videos are a really great way to introduce Arimaa to new players. In fact I wanted to make a video tutorial on how to use the Arimaa game client and also some videos to show the Arimaa terminology like hostage, frame, blockade, false protection, etc. I made an attempt back in April and my video turned out very dull. So I never got past the first one and did as Karl suggests and hide the evidence of my failed attempt :-). Well actually just didn't announce it, though it was available at arimaa.com/arimaa/videos/ if anyone tried the URL. You can have a quick peak before I make it private :-)
Hopefully someone can make one that is much better.

I used camStudio to make the video. I was getting about 2 MegaByte per minute of video. I noted down the settings that I used:
 http://arimaa.com/airmaa/videos/camStudio.txt

I will link Karl and Jean's video on the Arimaa site. Thanks guys; I think these videos will give new players a better sense of the game.

Thanks John for making the videos of the WC final games and getting this thread started. I will link to these also; though it would be good to eventually have a version of these games with commentary also.
Title: Re: Arimaa on Youtube
Post by Fritzlein on Sep 17th, 2009, 1:21pm

on 09/11/09 at 08:00:13, omar wrote:
I will link Karl and Jean's video on the Arimaa site. Thanks guys; I think these videos will give new players a better sense of the game.

Thanks, Omar.  These aren't quite the newcomer videos that Patrick was suggesting.  Perhaps someone with a better production sense can try those.  Nevertheless, I think anything that adds to the literature increases engagement and retention, so the videos we have serve some valuable role.  For those people who are looking for more than a game to play, but also a game to study, we are slowly building up resources.


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