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Title: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by SpeedRazor on May 4th, 2010, 1:22pm I noticed that there is no entry yet for Arimaa on BoardGameGeeks 5-minutes (or less) Video Rules contest, so I thought the Arimaa Forum might want to know about it. The Rules for the Contest are here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/54380/video-rules-contest-entry-s50-top-prize-and-ma It ends one month from today, and each game may only have one entry. There seems to be no established creation date, so either of the Arimaa Tutorials probably would qualify. (The front-running game video, for Zertz, was created almost a year ago.) I figure that the sooner a game is entered in the contest, the more "thumbs" it could generate; although final judging is by a panel. Just a heads-up in case anyone is interested... |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on May 4th, 2010, 3:09pm I think Omar is the only one allowed to make a decision here. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by SpeedRazor on May 9th, 2010, 6:23pm You're right, Arimaabuff. I was kind of hoping that somebody would take it on their own initiative to make an video themselves. This is my favorite scenario. However, barring this, I was hoping that Omar Syed might deem one of his two brilliant videos to be entered into the contest. They're obviously in the same quality of the front-running videos; even better IMHO. I guess it's up to Omar... |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 11th, 2010, 6:07am Thanks for letting us know about this. Sounds like an interesting contest. I think we should definitely enter an Arimaa video in the contest; even if it doesn't win it would get some more exposure. I actually have the Arimaa tutorials as videos. http://arimaa.com/arimaa/video/iphone/jc.m4v http://arimaa.com/arimaa/video/iphone/vs.m4v But I don't think we should enter these, because one of the factors in judging is 'completeness'. These videos do not mention the winning by immobilization or elimination. Also they were made way before the sets came out; it might be better now to show the rules using an actual Z-Man set. I think that would appeal more to the BGG community. So I also like the idea of making a new video for this contest and entering the existing videos as a last resort. Although I could try to make the new video, I don't think it would turn out as good as if we did it as a community project. Plus I think it might be fun to see how we work together on a common goal. Of course if someone wants to make a video all on their own or in a team feel free to do so. If we have multiple videos by the end of May we can do a quick vote to decide which one goes on to the BGG contest. I guess making of the video could be broken into: 1. Writing a script 2. Recording the audio 3. Recording the video 4. Composition of audio and video 5. Adding overlays and music Feel free to post which of these you could contribute to or maybe even nominate someone. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 11th, 2010, 11:56am I agree, I think we can win this contest. Most of the submissions are just some guy talking as he demonstrates. Omar's suggestion to divide up the labor got me thinking about how it opens possibilities to separate the audio voiceover from the video itself. The verbal explanation of the rules has to be very dry, boring, and straightforward, or else it can't be accurate, complete, and concise. Five minutes is too short. The video accompanying the voiceover, however, can be funny and wacky while getting the point across. For example: Voiceover: Gold begins the game by setting up his pieces however he likes in his two home ranks. All sixty-four million possible setups are legal. Video: In super-fast motion, Gold puts all his pieces on the board, leaves it there briefly, then takes them all off and puts them back on again. Then off again, then on again. Voiceover: On any non-trap square, a piece can't die. Video: Gold unsuccessfully tries to step on a silver rabbit with his elephant. Silver thumbs her nose at Gold, and sticks out her tongue. Voiceover: If there is no empty square adjacent, the piece can't be pushed. Blocking is a common theme in Arimaa. Video: Silver's elephant is blockaded. She considers pushing forward, left, and right, to no avail. She folds her arms and pouts. Voiceover: After Silver sees Gold's setup, she sets up her pieces in her home two ranks. Her ability to react in the setup compensates Silver for Gold having the first move. Video: Silver sets up her pieces and then mouths, "You're going down!" with corresponding hand motions. Something like this would blow away the competition, and win first prize for Arimaa. The video can get creative in illustrating what the boring voiceover is saying. Well, it is fun for me to imagine, but the sad truth is that I don't have the video mixing skills. I don't know how to speed up video, and I don't know how to splice it with pre-existing audio. Also, I don't think I could persuade my wife to play the role of Silver, even though the video would be much more attractive and funny with a man and a woman playing rather than just one man demoing. So, the part that I can contribute is below: a boring five-minute script of the rules for the voiceover. Also I could read the voiceover if the actors don't want to do it themselves, or write the action script of what the actors should be doing, but I would gladly defer to whoever is doing the mixing/acting if it would be easier that way. So, who among us can act? Who has the mad mixing skillz? Peace, Fritz [VOICEOVER] Arimaa is an abstract strategy game with major appeal to chess players. In fact, it can even be played with a chess set, although we will demonstrate it with Z-Man Games' Arimaa set. The Gold player and the Silver player each have sixteen pieces: one elephant, one camel, two horses, two dogs, two cats, and eight rabbits. All the pieces move the same way, by orthogonal steps, but the stronger pieces can boss around the weaker ones by pushing, pulling, and freezing them. A player gets four orthogonal steps on every turn. The object of the game is to advance any one of your weakest pieces, a rabbit, to the opponent's home rank. The board has four trap squares. A piece can only be captured if it is standing in a trap square, or if it is pushed or pulled into one. On any other square, a piece can't die. Gold begins the game by setting up his pieces however he likes in his two home ranks. All sixty-four million possible setups are legal. There are no restrictions... and no memorized openings. After Silver sees Gold's setup, she sets up her pieces in her home two ranks. Her ability to react in the setup compensates Silver for Gold having the first move. After the setup, players take turns moving. They try to force captures in trap squares and ultimately get a rabbit across the board. Now that we've seen the basics, let's look at the rules more closely. All pieces move by stepping one square left, right, forward or backward, except rabbits, which can't step backwards. Rabbits can only step left, right, or forward. No piece can move diagonally; in fact diagonals never count in Arimaa. That's why the board isn't checkered! You may make up to four steps per turn. You don't have to use all four of your steps, but you must change the position. You may divide your steps between four different pieces, or use them all on the same piece, or anything in between. A piece that is next to a stronger opposing piece is frozen, and can't move, unless it has an orthogonally adjacent friendly piece. Friends don't let friends get frozen! A frozen piece can freeze a yet weaker piece. Equal pieces do not freeze each other. For the cost of two steps, a piece can push a weaker opposing piece. First, the weaker piece is moved to an adjacent empty square. Second, the pushing piece moves to where the opposing piece started. Equal pieces can't push each other. If there is no empty square adjacent, the piece can't be pushed. Blocking is a common theme in Arimaa. Also for the cost of two steps, a piece can pull a weaker opposing piece. First, the stronger piece is moved to an adjacent empty square, and then the weaker piece moves where the stronger piece came from. Equal pieces can't pull each other. Note that neither pushing nor pulling needs to be in a straight line. A piece can't push and pull at the same time, although for four steps it could push and pull consecutively. Capturing is simple. A piece on a trap square with no adjacent friends is immediately removed from the board. Friends don't let friends get captured. This means a piece can be captured four ways: 1) stepping into an unprotected trap. duh! 2) being on a trap when its friends move away. double duh! 3) being on a trap when its friends are pushed or pulled away, or 4) being pushed or pulled into an undefended trap. To repeat, diagonals never count in Arimaa, so diagonal friends never protect traps or unfreeze. Also, friends can only protect against freezing and capture; they can't do anything about pushing and pulling. Other than getting a rabbit across the board, there are two ways to win, although they are less common. Taking the opponent's last rabbit wins the game, even if you sacrifice your last rabbit to do it. Also, depriving the opponent of any legal move wins the game, although you can't sacrifice your last rabbit to win this way. To prevent draws, it is illegal to cause a position to occur for the third time, with the same player to move. Although this prevents all sorts of wacky repetitions, mostly it just means you can't keep undoing your opponent's move. That's all you need to know. You are ready to play Arimaa! [/VOICEOVER] |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by SpeedRazor on May 11th, 2010, 1:22pm Is it possible for MULTIPLE PEOPLE to be on the Video? I know that the clock is ebbing, but: Omar, (his son); Karl Junke; Jean (Chess and Go); MegaJester; On and on and on... Can you imagine: Omar! World Arimaa Champions! Adanac! the Jeh! Crazy high-rated Harry Potter Guy! Everybody! (I recuse myself as I'm currently insignificant.) Arimaabuff, on and on! Famouse Go computer programmers! On and on! This is SUCH an opportunity! Let's not blow this... |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on May 11th, 2010, 1:25pm Fritz, I never thought I'd see this day. You triggered the language filter! :o I can do the voice over. I did exert my acting skills on more than a few occasions, once partook in a debating contest in my Engineer school, and finished fifth amongst more than a hundred contestants, from several schools in the region, all people with putative debating skills. However, that’s about all I can do, my computer isn’t very good so someone else should do the recording, the mixing, etc… |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by FireBorn on May 11th, 2010, 7:54pm I can write/record the music. Here are two commercials and one flash game song that I wrote: http://www.armyofcaterpillars.com/files/musicportfolio.zip If we go with Fritzlein's idea, I think a laid back acoustic indie rock instrumental would suit the video. What do you think? |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 11th, 2010, 9:09pm on 05/11/10 at 13:25:54, Arimabuff wrote:
Oops, my bad. :-[ Post edited. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on May 12th, 2010, 12:01am I haven't got enough time at the moment to help with writing a script, but I'd be honoured to be one of the "voiceoverers" if peeps would like... Just tell me what to say and I'll send you an MP3. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by RonWeasley on May 12th, 2010, 4:46am on 05/11/10 at 13:22:47, SpeedRazor wrote:
This is one of my proudest days. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by kalsyed on May 12th, 2010, 7:17am I can make the video, just bought a new computer with some crazzzzy horsepower :P and I love putting those cpus to work... (ohh, and I also have a video editing software) I will need these parts: video footage of board and/or actors, voice overlays to match actors expressions and to explain the board rules, and of course the background music. The sooner the better, I'll need a day or so to put it together.... -Kal |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 12th, 2010, 7:23am Wow, looks like things are moving along already. Thanks for writing the script Karl. I've setup a place where we can upload and share files: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/ftp/ Just upload the audio/video files under the BGG_contest directory. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on May 12th, 2010, 7:37am on 05/11/10 at 19:54:52, FireBorn wrote:
Out of the three I like the Cartoon Network commercial. Was that a scitar towards the end? Maybe that could be an honorary nod to the game creator's roots... :) Alternatively, I think something like Red Hot Chilli Peppers' "Snow" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7MhpFF1vv0) would be rockin' |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 12th, 2010, 9:18am on 05/12/10 at 07:17:18, kalsyed wrote:
Awesome, Kal. It looks like this is going to happen! Quote:
It looks like we have megajester for voiceover and Fireborn for music. So we only need actors for the video. As you said, the sooner the better (and, I might add, ideally done by people with some acting experience), but if no one steps up to do it in the next few days, Katie will have the time (and willingness) do it with me on this coming Sunday. I can think of actions to match everything in the voiceover, with one caveat: to get the timing right it may not be enough to just splice the videos. Sometimes the action will have to be sped up, or perhaps even slowed down a little. Your video editing software can do this? I will start writing an action script now in the hopes that we will yet have volunteers to enact it, but which Katie and I can use in a pinch. Quote:
The deadline is not until Friday, June 4, so we are not up against the wall yet, but it would be ideal if all the contributors could get the pieces to you for editing at least two weeks before that at the latest, not only to give you enough time, but in case any of the components have to be redone. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by FireBorn on May 12th, 2010, 10:32am I think I'll write a 1-2 minute instrumental loop for the main video, and you can loop it as many times as needed. And since there are so many people involved I imagine we'd have credits, so I'll write a short, more rockin' song for that :) |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on May 12th, 2010, 3:47pm Are we gonna use Fritz's voiceover script as it is? If so I'll just go ahead and record it. I'll be a bit more fluent than the League vid, promise. :D I'll see if I can get it done in the next couple of days so everybody else knows what they're working with and there's time to redo some of it if needs be. So I'll upload it to Omar's ftp address as one long MP3 and leave the splicin' and dicin' to you guys...? PS: I reckon something like the following would be a good idea: (inserted sentence is underlined) "A piece can't push and pull at the same time, although for four steps it could push and pull consecutively. It's also worth mentioning that, although rabbits can't step backwards by themselves, they can be pushed or pulled backwards." |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 12th, 2010, 8:35pm Yes, it is worth mentioning that rabbits can be pushed or pulled backwards. There are a few other fine points of the rules that I didn't mention, and I also put in some clarifications that aren't strictly necessary. Definitely there is room for improvement and the script I posted shouldn't be considered a final product. When I read my script myself at an unhurried pace, it took me just about five minutes. Considering the potential need for end credits, and wanting to give Kal a chance to lengthen pauses in the audio to make it fit better, I think we should at least cut as much from the script as we add, if not cut more. Of course, one could always read faster, but I don't think we should cram. So while I think it is great to be clear on the point of pushing rabbits backward, maybe we should take out some of my editorializing as well. For example, one wouldn't have to say that there are no memorized openings. One thing to consider is that we can show some things that we don't have time to say, and then cut them from the script. For example, I say that diagonals don't count and then reiterate it later. Perhaps it would be better instead to make sure the video had an example of diagonal adjacency not unfreezing, as well as an example of diagonal adjacency not protecting a trap. Unfortunately, making such a decision crosses boundaries in the division of labor; some decisions of the video and audio are interdependent. I note now that Patrick has some acting experience and has also volunteered to do the voiceover. My earlier post tapping was megajester for the voiceover was an oversight that we had two volunteers, not an attempt by me to take control of the project and say who does what. Frankly, I would rather not do either the voice or the video myself. Would one of you be able to record video and the other audio? If you both want to record the audio, how should we decide? Should we get both recordings and have a community vote? I wonder whether having a reading of the audio available beforehand would be useful to whoever records the video. It could help pace the actions of the video, so that a lesser burden is placed on Kal to make things match up. Also it would raise the possibility of whoever records video giving feedback that, say, a certain portion of the voiceover must be slower, which could then be re-recorded rather than fussed around by Kal. Splitting up the tasks sounds great in principle, but there are evidently some complications. :P We could perhaps use a benevolent |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Hippo on May 12th, 2010, 11:50pm My vote for Omar to be (and I don't think I could help with this project :(). May be one idea .... in the initial sequence (may be just initial setup?) it could be nice to have picture in picture showing the same with chess set. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on May 13th, 2010, 2:21am Omar, I tried to upload a test recording using that ftp manager you posted a link to, but it wasn't having it. I've now uploaded it manually to the ftp.arimaa.com/pub directory, but I can't see it with my web browser (Chrome). If people prefer someone else's voice I'm cool with that, otherwise just let me know and I'll make a recording. I do agree with Fritz that there should be one person at the centre of everything. Just with the script, constructive criticism aside you have to have one person making the final decision. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Nombril on May 13th, 2010, 4:35am Fritz, I love the example voiceover/video jokes (fast motion set up, elephant blockade...) They really should be worked into the main script. A couple of ideas on the voiceover... mostly looking at the first few paragraphs to get maximum impact for the first impression. Do we want Arimaa compared to chess in the opening? I know that has been a turn off for some of the people I have taught the game to. Many of the perceived drawbacks of chess (memorized openings, etc.) are not present in Arimaa. And I thought there was some sentiment that it shouldn't be categorized as a chess variant. (Note - I said perceived - I figure that is a discussion for a different thread...) When the game was first described to me, the approach used was to describe it as a game of bullying. I wonder if this would lend itself better than the word boss. Do we want Z-Man games spoken in the voiceover, or just be visible on the box? I was going to write up an alternate first few paragraphs...but am out of time this morning. So just a few thoughts in case anyone wants to do some editing. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 13th, 2010, 6:17am Thanks for nominating me as coordinator Hippo, but I think I'll decline. Actually I would love to see if this project can be done in a truly distributed way without any central coordination. It would mean that there would not be anyone assigned to any one thing and anyone can contribute to anything. We would operate like an army of ants. Just see what needs to be done and help out where you can. Even if someone is already working on something, it doesn't mean that you can't. Feel free to provide your version of the same thing. Karl already provided a voice over script; but that shouldn't stop Eric from providing one also. Kal is going to merge the files to produce a video, but someone else can also download the files and produce their own. We could end up with multiple videos. In the end the community will vote to see what survives. The process would not be efficient; there would be redundancy and the end product would evolve iteratively with some trial and error. To participate in this kind of a system one has to put aside their feelings. In the hustle and bustle of getting things done, we might step on each others toes and say things which could be viewed as negative. Or something you spent hours on producing might not get used. You just have to shrug these kind of things off and not let it deter you from participating in the future. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 13th, 2010, 6:31am on 05/13/10 at 02:21:39, megajester wrote:
I had tested it with a small file and it worked, but with a big file the HTTP connection is timing out during the upload. I increased the limits and it seems to be working now. Let me know if you still run into any problems. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 13th, 2010, 6:38am Karl, I can help with shooting the video. We have a HD camcorder and Aamir is really good with setting up proper lighting. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 13th, 2010, 7:18am on 05/13/10 at 04:35:36, Nombril wrote:
I was also contemplating if it is good to mention chess or not. Maybe just mentioning that it can also be played with chess pieces is enough. That might appeal to someone who wants to try it out with their chess. That is also a positive thing that Arimaa has going for it; you just have to learn the rules to get started; you probably already have the material to play it. Quote:
I think I like the word 'bullying' also. Quote:
The BGG community definitely knows Z-Man and they have a good reputation. I think it helps add creditability to Arimaa. So I am for mentioning it. Quote:
Feel free to whenever you get a chance. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 13th, 2010, 7:19am FireBorn, nice music samples. Looking forward to seeing what you produce. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on May 13th, 2010, 8:36am I think it would add a lot if we could have people from all around the world, with different accents say a few words (the more people the better). It would show that the game is already played everywhere... Plus it would beat the hell out of a video made with only one voice over. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Hippo on May 13th, 2010, 9:03am on 05/13/10 at 08:36:48, Arimabuff wrote:
I am not sure with that. It seems to me it would be disturbing. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 13th, 2010, 9:15am on 05/13/10 at 06:17:35, omar wrote:
Realistically, this means that whoever mixes the pieces has more work to do and has all of the power. This is fine with me; I'll be quite happy to see what Kal comes up with, but in this case a lack of coordinator doesn't make the process more democratic, it just makes Kal the de facto person in charge. If he decides that FireBorn's music sucks and uses Nirvana instead, that's that. I trust Kal's judgement and thank him for volunteering, because without him putting in a ton of work at the end of the line, the project doesn't even happen. Still, let's not kid ourselves about what it means for nobody to be coordinating. on 05/13/10 at 08:36:48, Arimabuff wrote:
I like the idea of having different accents in the voiceover. If we have more than one, let's shoot for at least three. It would emphasize the reality that Arimaa is already a world-wide game, for a very nice effect. I think the simplest way to do this is to have everyone who is willing to be a reader record the whole script, which gives Kal the full range of options for piecing it together as he chooses. on 05/13/10 at 06:38:52, omar wrote:
I also like the idea of having different people in the video. Just increasing the faces/hands shown from me & Katie to also including Omar's kids is a big plus, but if we can get more it would be yet still better. Everyone who wants to can shoot the whole video or at least shoot some scenes, so there would be material for a very diverse final video. In a few hours I will post a revised audio script (including some suggestions from this thread) with actions described for every bit of verbiage. However, consistent with Omar's wishes, this will just be a starting point to make it easier for everyone to jump in. Folks should feel free to deviate from the audio and deviate from the actions too, consistent with Omar's mandate for chaos. :) |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by SpeedRazor on May 13th, 2010, 9:25am on 05/13/10 at 09:03:47, Hippo wrote:
One of the most fascinating things about Arimaa is "why was it created?" (To see if, after IBM's Deep Blue/Kasparov match, human beings could still challenge computers with a game where brute force won't yet work.) Fritzleine has explained this many times (and very aptly so!); but shouldn't, at the very least, the creator of the game explain this? I realize it's only 5 minutes, and there must be credits at the end, but Arimaa isn't a game in a vacuum: it was inspired into creation! That angle should be mentioned, I would think... This also begs the question of whether "The Arimaa Challenge" should be mentioned - (which seems interesting to lay people) - which again begs whether Arimaa software programmers should chime in (Fotland, et cetera) on just why this game is such a challenge to program. On the whole, I agree with you Hippo, but maybe up to three persons is a happy medium... |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on May 13th, 2010, 10:10am My computer being a derelict from another era I only have the original XP recording program and it's crap, I could use some help. Maybe if someone recorded my voice on Teamspeak from his computer in a format compatible with the rest. Do you think that could be arranged? We would only need to agree on a time and date. Anybody? |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on May 13th, 2010, 10:35am on 05/13/10 at 10:10:34, Arimabuff wrote:
Have you tried Audacity? It has a cool noise removal function as well. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on May 13th, 2010, 10:35am I admire Omar for his vision of the Arimaa community as being genuinely democratic. And he's right, all it basically needs is for all of us just be cool and work as a team. However, the main difference between us and ants is that ants are basically hardwired biological robots with zero creativity. They've been doing the same old thing for millions and millions of years. They need no leader because none of them ever has any ideas. Ideas require decisions and desicions require a decision maker. What we are trying to do is one giant idea composed of lots of little ideas that have been sifted from still more little ideas. Ideas lead to decisions that will end up being made by somebody. As Fritz pointed out, "let's all decide together" doesn't remove the need for a decision maker. Your decision maker just ends up being Kal. It's good to let people step up to accept responsibility for different things, but I really do think we need Omar or somebody to co-ordinate the whole thing, just in case. Murphy's Law and all that. I propose we take Omar's five points, set a schedule, and start co-ordinating this. Our due date is June 4th, right? 1. Writing a script Deadline: Monday 17th We simply don't have time to just all chip in and adjust the script willy nilly. There must be a creative brain that evaluates everybody's suggestions and makes the final decision. Fritz? 2. Recording the audio - myself, Arimabuff and... Omar? Somebody needs to manage this, and at least decide who will do the voiceovers. We can all submit a recording of the entire thing, fine, but you can't have 10 people put all that hard work into it when only 3 or so will be chosen. 3. Recording the video - Fritz & Omar. Anybody else? Also: Music by Fireborn Deadline: Monday 24th 4. Composition of audio and video 5. Adding overlays and music Kal, of course Deadline: Thursday 27th We also need... 6. Review by panel (who?) with recommendations - Saturday 29th 7. Adjustments and submission of video to BBG - Thursday 3rd ...and that's still cutting things a bit fine! |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 13th, 2010, 11:24am on 05/13/10 at 09:25:07, SpeedRazor wrote:
I'm sorry, but it is simply jam-packed just to get the rules in five minutes if we are going to illustrate them instead of just saying them, and have examples to clarify common confusions. Also the contest is for a rules video, and promotion of the game is explicitly discouraged. Nevertheless, according to Omar's decision-making model, you should write your own script including the invention process and the Arimaa Challenge, and hope someone reads it, and hope someone creates accompanying video, and hope that this audio and video is mixed in to the final product. Or if nobody else is chipping in, you could do the writing, reading, visuals, and mixing, all by yourself. Omar will be happy, because then we will have two more videos to explain/promote Arimaa. on 05/13/10 at 10:35:44, megajester wrote:
I have uploaded my latest script revision to Omar's FTP, incorporating several suggestions and leaving out others. I will try to paste it here as well, but the formatting may be funky since I composed in ScreenWriter and then exported to plain text. I'm still open for suggestions, but if the process bogs down, my patience for pouring time into this project will be very limited. It is hard work to write, as every other phase of the project is hard, and if it appears that my contributions are being frittered away because of some weird parallel-track chaotic mess, I'll happily leave my contribution for others to use or not use as they see fit. NARRATOR (V.O.) Arimaa is an abstract strategy game with major appeal to chess players. Dave and Betty are deep in thought over a chess position (with clock). They look at the camera, intrigued, and mouth "Really?" NARRATOR (V.O.) In fact, it can even be played with a chess set, although it is more fun with Z-Man Games' Arimaa set. Betty holds up a boxed set to the camera while Dave rubs his hands with glee. They begin to unpack the box. NARRATOR (V.O.) The Gold player and the Silver player each have sixteen pieces: one elephant, one camel, two horses, two dogs, two cats, and eight rabbits. (Close up on the pieces.) In tandem, Dave places the gold elephant while Betty places the silver elephant, next to each other and facing the camera. They place the camels to the outside of the elephants. They place the horses in a line away from the camera, outside of the camels, and so on until they have placed all the rabbits. NARRATOR (V.O.) All the pieces move the same way, by orthogonal steps, but the stronger pieces can bully the weaker ones by pushing, pulling, and freezing them. (Close up on board.) In a typical Arimaa position, Gold pushes one of Silver's pieces, Silver pulls one of Gold's pieces, and Gold pretends to try to move his just-pulled, now-frozen piece, unsuccessfully. NARRATOR (V.O.) A player gets four orthogonal steps on every turn. The object of the game is to advance any one of your weakest pieces, a rabbit, to the opponent's home rank. (Close up on board.) Silver makes four steps. Gold makes four steps. Silver advances a rabbit to goal. The players shake hands. NARRATOR (V.O.) The board has four trap squares. A piece can only be captured if it is standing in a trap square, or if it is pushed or pulled into one. On any other square, a piece can't die. Dave unsuccessfully tries to step on Betty's cat with his elephant. Betty thumbs her nose at him. NARRATOR (V.O.) Gold begins the game by setting up his pieces however he likes in his two home ranks. All sixty-four million possible setups are legal. There are no restrictions... and no memorized openings. Dave puts all his pieces on the board, considers the setup briefly, then takes them all off and puts them back on again in a radically different configuration. Then off again, then on again. NARRATOR (V.O.) After Silver sees Gold's setup, she sets up her pieces in her home two ranks. Her ability to react in the setup compensates Silver for Gold having the first move. Betty contemplates Dave's setup. She sets up her pieces, then mouths, "You're going down." NARRATOR (V.O.) After the setup, players take turns moving. They try to force captures in trap squares and ultimately get a rabbit across the board. (Close up on board.) From the position rrrddrrr/rhcemchr/8/8/8/8/RHCMERHR/RRRDDRCR, Gold and Silver play a complete, short racing game. 2g E^^^Hg^ 2s Evvvv 3g E^Hg^^^ 3s EM>ER^* 4g E>CE<*Cg^ 4s HE>EH^* 5g EM>v* 5s RE>ER^* 6g RE<ERv* 6s Rh2vvvv 7g Rf^^^^ 7s Dd>De>Rh6>v 8g DE>Edv* 8s E>R7>v NARRATOR (V.O.) Now that we've seen the basics, let's look at the rules more closely. All pieces move by stepping one square left, right, forward or backward, except rabbits, which can't step backwards. Rabbits can only step left, right, or forward. (Close up on board.) Silver elephant in middle moves left, right, forward, and back. Gold rabbit moves left, right, and forward, but fails to move back. NARRATOR (V.O.) No piece can move diagonally; in fact diagonals never count in Arimaa. That's why the board isn't checkered! A position is set up on the checkered side of the board with pieces only on the black squares. Dave contemplates, then makes three diagonal jumps with his rabbit, folds his arms, and mouths, "King me!" Betty rolls her eyes and makes the "lame" sign on her forehead. NARRATOR (V.O.) You may make up to four steps per turn. You don't have to use all four of your steps, but you must change the position. You may use all four steps on the same piece, divide them between four different pieces, or anything in between. (Close up on board.) From the setup rdrccrrr/rmredrhh/8/8/8/8/CHRMERHC/RRRDDRRR Gold plays 2g E^^vv. Silver's hand motions for Gold to continue/try again, at which point Gold plays 2g E^ and waves hands to show he is finished. Silver's hands shrug, then plays 2s Evv>v. Gold plays 3g Ca^Hb^Hg^Ch^. Silver plays 3s MvvHgvv. NARRATOR (V.O.) A piece that is next to a stronger opposing piece is frozen, and can't move, unless it has an orthogonally adjacent friendly piece. Friends don't let friends get frozen! A frozen piece can freeze a yet weaker piece. Equal pieces do not freeze each other. (Continue previous closeup) Gold plays 4g E<^<^. Silver unsuccessfully tries to move her camel, then plays 4s Rh7v>MvEv. Gold plays 5g E<Ca^, then unsuccessfully tries to advance his cat past the frozen camel, and finishes instead with De^Hg^. Silver points to the two equal horses and plays 5s Hg>vRhvv. NARRATOR (V.O.) For the cost of two steps, a piece can push a weaker opposing piece. First, the weaker piece is moved to an adjacent empty square. Second, the pushing piece moves to where the opposing piece started. Equal pieces can't push each other. If there is no empty square adjacent, the piece can't be pushed. (Continue previous closeup) Gold plays 6g EM>, then tries unsuccessfully to push the h4-horse with his g4-horse. He shrugs and finishes with Ch^Dd>. Silver tries unsuccessfully to push her elephant into e2. NARRATOR (V.O.) Also for the cost of two steps, a piece can pull a weaker opposing piece. First, the stronger piece is moved to an adjacent empty square, and then the weaker piece moves where the stronger piece came from. Equal pieces can't pull each other. Silver plays 6s DE<, then tries to pull the g4-horse with her h4-horse but Gold's hand stops her. Finally she finishes with CHh^. NARRATOR (V.O.) Note that a rabbit can be pushed backward even though it can't move backward voluntarily. Four steps may be used to push and pull consecutively, but a piece can't push and pull at the same time. Gold plays 7g CR^RbCv. Silver tries to push the gold camel with her elephant while pulling the Gold dog behind, but is stopped by Gold, so she takes back the whole move. NARRATOR (V.O.) Capturing is simple. A piece on a trap square with no adjacent friends is immediately removed from the board. Friends don't let friends get captured. This means a piece can be captured four ways: 1) stepping into an unprotected trap. duh! Silver plays 7s Rc7v*, and Gold's hand reaches in to stop her and remove the rabbit from the board. She then plays 7s RgvvRf7v. NARRATOR (V.O.) 2) being on a trap when its friends move away. double duh! Gold plays 8g Rf2^De^*, and Silver's hand reaches in to stop him and remove the rabbit. Gold finishes with Dd^Hb> NARRATOR (V.O.) 3) being on a trap when its friends are pushed or pulled away Silver plays 8s EMvER<*. Gold plays 8g D5>>RD<*. NARRATOR (V.O.) Or 4) being pushed or pulled into an undefended trap. Silver plays 9s RcE^<*. Gold plays HR^<*. NARRATOR (V.O.) Other than getting a rabbit across the board, there are two ways to win, although they are less common. Taking the opponent's last rabbit wins the game, even if you sacrifice your last rabbit to do it. Position 8/8/8/2R5/2e2m2/1ErD2C1/2D2Mh1/8. Silver plays Er^*, then gets up and starts doing a victory dance. NARRATOR (V.O.) Also, depriving the opponent of any legal move wins the game, although you can't sacrifice your last rabbit to win this way. Position 8/rrrH4/MeD5/RCD2m2/1R1hEh2/8/8/8. Gold plays EHv*ME< and does a fist pump over the board. NARRATOR (V.O.) To prevent draws, it is illegal to cause a position to occur for the third time, with the same player to move. Although this prevents all sorts of wacky repetitions, mostly it just means you can't keep undoing your opponent's move. Position 8/1rrcdrr1/rd1h2c1/15mr/5E1r/RM2eh/HR/R1HDCDRR/1RR1RC2. The game proceeds 1s MvHM^Hf> 1g EvHE^Hgv 2s MvHM^Hf> 2g EvHE^Hgv at which point Silver stops Gold and wags her finger at him. For his fourth step he plays Rg^ instead. NARRATOR (V.O.) That's all you need to know. You are ready to play Arimaa! End credits with awesome accompanying music. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on May 13th, 2010, 12:26pm on 05/13/10 at 10:35:34, megajester wrote:
I don't have it and I am not sure if my computer could withstand it. It's already at its limit. Could you record me on teamspeak? |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 13th, 2010, 12:41pm on 05/13/10 at 04:35:36, Nombril wrote:
I was ambivalent about this point. There are good arguments on both sides. I believe that the target audience for promoting Arimaa is chess players, both because there are millions of chess players, and because people who like chess will like Arimaa too if they give it a chance. If Arimaa ever hits the big time, it will do so by converting chess players. Just look at what one Board Game Geek denizen had to say about Arimaa: Quote:
He dislikes Arimaa for being similar to chess, but not because it shares any of chess's real defects (first player advantage, draws, memorized openings, computer dominance) but because it shares two advantages of chess (clarity and decisiveness). He's upset about Arimaa for something that is semi-true, but irrelevant to Arimaa's quality. This guy is not our target audience. Trying to persuade him is an uphill battle we don't need to be fighting. Yes, it is definitely a negative for Arimaa to be perceived as a chess variant, even though I personally do think of Arimaa as a chess variant. But the reason it is a negative is that many serious chess players hate chess variants. Also people who play chess variants often think there is something wrong with chess. There isn't necessarily any love lost between chess fanatics and chess variant fanatics. We want to distance ourselves from chess variants, not distance ourselves from chess per se. I very specifically did not say in the script that Arimaa is a chess variant. I said that Arimaa has major appeal to chess players. I want to be positive about chess, not say that chess is broken and Arimaa fixes it. There are exceptions to every rule, but mostly people who like chess will like Arimaa for the same reasons, and people who dislike chess will dislike Arimaa for the same reasons. We shouldn't be marketing Arimaa to people who won't like it, and we should be marketing Arimaa to people who will like it. I have experienced this very much first hand. Dallas is a great city for gaming, with lots of active clubs. I have been to a local chess club several times, and a local general board game club several times. The chess players were receptive to Arimaa based on its qualities. The boardgamers were simply not interested in the type of game that Arimaa is. If my life depended on making five converts to Arimaa within the next week, I would spend my time first at the chess club, then going door to door asking if people play chess, and only as a last resort hitting up people who play Settlers of Catan and Dungeon Lords. My main hesitation about the chess reference is that chess is not very popular on BGG, and this is a BGG video rules contest. In that circle there will be plenty of people for whom the word "chess" is an instant turnoff. For those folks, however, almost any two-player abstract is not their cup of tea. Let's not try to pretend Arimaa is something other than what it is to please a group that aren't interested in it anyhow. And lucky for us, the population of chess players is vastly larger. We have to target our base. Well, that's my justification for leaving the chess reference in. But since there is no decision-making process for this project... |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by jdb on May 13th, 2010, 3:53pm I read the narrative. It looks pretty good to me. Together with the graphics it should give a good description of the rules. One thing to consider, some of the time the pieces are "on" the board and sometimes they are "in" the board. Its likely best to pick one or the other. Same thing for "onto" and "into" |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 13th, 2010, 7:01pm on 05/13/10 at 15:53:51, jdb wrote:
Good point. Consistently using "on" and "onto" would be an improvement. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 14th, 2010, 7:22am Actually I think the script is what determines the video more than anything else. The script can even mention who says what part. Initially the script might not mention this, since we don't know who will be interested to record the audio, but once some audio files have been uploaded the script can be updated to mention who says what part. If we have suggested a way on how to splice the files together I think Kal would just follow that; just I expect that people who record the audio or video will follow the script and not deviate even though they could. The ideas and decisions are really in the script. So I think our focus should be on the script and evolving the script before we start implementing the script. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by FireBorn on May 14th, 2010, 8:44am In the interest of time and simplicity, I'm not going to write the music anymore. Instead, I'll just find a suitable piece of music, and loop it if I have to. I was thinking something like the Up movie soundtrack or some other old timey jazz - something relaxing yet sophisticated. All the mouthed words in the script remind me of a silent film. EDIT: about the script, I think we should mention that Gold moves first explicitly rather than implicitly. Also, the "L" on the forehead stands for "loser", not "lame". Rolling her eyes is enough to get the point across I think. And I'd remove the "duh" and "double duh". Do kids still say that? I've never heard "double duh" in any case. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 14th, 2010, 2:36pm on 05/14/10 at 07:22:44, omar wrote:
Cool. What changes would you suggest relative to my last submission? |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on May 15th, 2010, 2:39am I think it's a great script. Apart from maybe a couple of the things that Fireborn mentioned there's nothing that needs adjusting from what I can tell. Clearly from here on in it's just fine details. So based on the 80/20 rule (http://management.about.com/cs/generalmanagement/a/Pareto081202.htm) (and if everybody likes my schedule proposal) I reckon if nobody suggests anything more by Monday we should just use what we got otherwise it's gonna take forever. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on May 15th, 2010, 9:07am on 05/15/10 at 02:39:57, megajester wrote:
I agree I was looking forward to this and Fritz put a lot of thought into it. It would be a shame to let it go to waste. I am willing to read the entire script through Teamspeak; it doesn't matter if only a few sentences of mine are selected in the end. I need someone to do the recording on his end though. Who's willing to do so? The sooner I have an answer the better. If every one of us does what he has the means to do without delays then we may see this thing through otherwise there's not a chance in H-E double hockey sticks. Time for everyone to get a move on! |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 15th, 2010, 10:42am on 05/14/10 at 08:44:05, FireBorn wrote:
Yeah, the "silent movie" effect could be weird. My thought was that I didn't want the actors and narrators to have to take turns, because it could make the timing issues of the mixing more difficult. I imagined the actors actually saying whatever they say, and then having their audio removed and replaced by the narrator. But I am not experienced enough to know how it will seem to viewers if the narrator is sonorously extolling the balance of Arimaa while Silver is violently but silently dissing Gold. Quote:
How about "Oops" and "D'oh"? The point is to be more concise than saying, "Of course, one would seldom voluntary suicide one's own piece, but there are situations where the need arises, and it is permitted by the rules." Quote:
Actors, please feel free to ad-lib. That is, assuming we have any actors? I truly would prefer not to do the video. Any volunteers? |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 15th, 2010, 11:18am on 05/14/10 at 14:36:18, Fritzlein wrote:
Needed some time to think about this first :-) Saying "with major appeal to chess players" could be interpreted as an opinion right now rather than a fact. I believe it's true, but the sample size is still small. I'm a bit concerned that saying this might actually turn off chess players and also turn off the BGG community. Instead I think we should say things which are facts and will sound intriguing. We know that many people don't watch a video past the first 30 seconds. So if they get nothing else out of it, I think we would want them to at least walk away with some interesting facts they can tell others. So here's a suggestion. ["How to Play Arimaa" animation from existing video; possibly different music; after animation stops] Narrator: "Arimaa is an abstract strategy game with a $10,000 programming challenge and a yearly man vs machine match. It was designed in 2002 to show that humans can still out smart computer and so far the humans are still dominating." [pan in on still image of GK vs Deep Blue; music slowly fading out] Narrator: "If you have a chess set at home, you already have the equipment to play Arimaa." [pan in on image of a chess set] "Although it's more fun with Z-Man Games' Arimaa set." [Betty holds up .... ] |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 15th, 2010, 11:34am on 05/15/10 at 09:07:46, Arimabuff wrote:
I was thinking rather than changing narrators it might be better to have one person be the narrator all the way through. For the narrating I would nominate Joel since he has a very clear and easy to understand voice. However, I like the idea of also having many different people chime in to give their views and thoughts. Kind of like a documentary. But we could not include this with the video we send to BGG. However, we could include it in a video that we place on the Arimaa main page. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on May 15th, 2010, 1:34pm on 05/15/10 at 11:34:51, omar wrote:
I can't find a Joel among the players. What's his screen name? |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Adanac on May 15th, 2010, 2:06pm on 05/15/10 at 13:34:33, Arimabuff wrote:
Megajester |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on May 15th, 2010, 2:37pm I think I've had enough with this thing. Do whatever you want I don't care! This is the very last time I get involved in anything like this. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 15th, 2010, 7:16pm Well it's just a suggestion Pat nothing to get upset about. How about I record a sample from you tomorrow via TS and upload it to the file manager. The community can vote to decide how we should proceed. The appropriate way to show your disagreement on this matter would be to say something like: "Well, I haven't had a chance to show my vocal talent yet, so don't cast your nomination too early :-) " Also you need to make some effort so you can record the audio on your own. You can't expect that someone will always be able to help you with this. I do appreciate your willingness to help out, but like I said earlier if you are going to participate in this kind of project you have to be able to put your feelings aside. Things might not go the way you want. But you can always voice your opinion in a positive and logical manner and try to persuade things that way. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 15th, 2010, 8:28pm on 05/15/10 at 11:18:44, omar wrote:
I see your point about sticking to facts rather than injecting opinions. The contest rules waffled on this point, saying that a teeny bit of opinion is OK, but I understand if you don't want to risk crossing a line. As for turning people off, there's a different crowd that will be turned off when you start talking about computers instead of talking about the game. But I understand that the AI challenge is near and dear to your heart, and indeed that's why you invented Arimaa in the first place, so (marketing value aside) your introduction seems quite appropriate. Besides, I'd just like to see this video get done, and I'm happy to have you make a decision. I know you don't like to take charge, but I appreciate your stepping up. Would you like me to re-upload the script with your changes, or shall we just consider it implicitly changed? |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 16th, 2010, 6:03am Karl, if you can modify it and upload a new version that would be great. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 16th, 2010, 10:32am on 05/16/10 at 06:03:57, omar wrote:
Done. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on May 17th, 2010, 2:46am I've uploaded an mp3 of my narration of the rules, weighing in at 4 minutes and 45 seconds. I don't see how to make it any shorter with the current script. I tried to use noice cancellation on Audacity but I didn't like the sound quality. Maybe Kal or someone knows a better way. Take 1 is without noise cancellation, but I somehow lost the last bit. Take 2 is the whole thing with noise cancellation. There's only a very slight change of wording in the line about the alternate ways of winning; I've said "Apart from getting a rabbit across the board, there are two other ways to win..." because I thought it would be clearer. All constructive criticism is welcome of course, I'm happy to record some bits again if you need me too. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 17th, 2010, 8:52am on 05/17/10 at 02:46:51, megajester wrote:
Thanks, Joel. The length is a danger sign, because one would like the flexibility to insert pauses when mixing with the video. But it appears our development cycle is too long to go back and trim the script later after we see how it works; instead we'll have to use your reading and cram the video to make it fit. Should be doable, and I'll be happy if it just gets done. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on May 17th, 2010, 11:05am You can download it from the address Omar posted earlier (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/ftp/filemanager/filemanager.php) When I say I don't see how we can make it shorter, I mean without rushing it. If a video can be made to match it I think it's a reasonable pace. This is partly why I did my best to get the narration done asap, so that whoever shoots the video knows how much time they have for each section. Taking another look at the script, I can see that whoever shoots it might want to be a bit creative in their interpretation of it. Perhaps they could shoot it section by section, listening to the narration first to see if they'll have time for all of it, and then ad-libbing accordingly. For example with the following segment... NARRATOR (V.O.) A player gets four orthogonal steps on every turn. The object of the game is to advance any one of your weakest pieces, a rabbit, to the opponent's home rank. (Close up on board.) Silver makes four steps. Gold makes four steps. Silver advances a rabbit to goal. The players shake hands. ...you might need to lose the handshake. Also the bit where Gold does his setup could be sped up. You know, Gold places his first two pieces normal speed, then a flurry, then cut to Gold player looking proud of his completed setup. Etc etc... |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 19th, 2010, 6:43am Audio sounds great Joel. Thanks for putting it up so quickly. Seems we are stuck on finding actors now :-) |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by FireBorn on May 19th, 2010, 9:30pm Great work megajester! I have touched up the narration (de-ess, compress, noise gate, room reverb) and uploaded that ("touchedup"). I also found some nice oldskool jazz and put that in the background and uploaded that as well ("withmusic"). I'm imagining something like Pixar's stuff, like Geri's Game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m7dcbIKvlw . If you need the music separately just let me know. Edit: sorry, I uploaded a version with slightly louder music. I think it's a better version, so could you please delete the old one, omar, thx :) |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 20th, 2010, 7:26am I think it might be better to just have the music only at the beginning and fade out (and also at the end with credits). That way it doesn't interfere with the words. Can you just upload the music as a separate file. That way Kal can mix it in when he is putting together the files. I would have liked the music to be a little more upbeat than Giri. Maybe you can also upload the music loops you've created so we can pick from it. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by FireBorn on May 20th, 2010, 9:42am Omar, I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. It will be boring without music. Have you seen an episode of How It's Made? They have that cheesy electronic rock music in the background while the narrator is talking - now that's distracting! Also, documentaries constantly have music in the background even during interviews and narration. If you like the version with the quieter music, you can go with that one, but I think it makes the music sound a bit too tinny and oldish. I looked for a while to find the right music at the right tempo with the right feel to it. I tried faster music but it gets too hectic, especially since megajester is already speaking somewhat fast (with few long pauses). The music needs to contrast against the fast-forward parts of the videos and the speed of his voice in order to calm viewers down and create an enjoyable viewing experience. At least that's how I see it. If you want different music I can keep looking, but I really think we should have music throughout the video. It will give us a leg up on the competition. We have great narration that deserves some background music :) |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 20th, 2010, 10:39am I just listened to megajester's reading plus Fireborn's music, and I loved it. This gets me excited about the project again. Since there hasn't been a flood of volunteers to shoot footage, I would rather shoot some myself than see such a promising start go to waste. Anyone can still jump in and take the starring role, but if no one does, I'll try to contribute some video by the end of the week. I tend to agree with Fireborn about having music throughout the narration, not just at the beginning and end. Yes, every additional sensory stimulation is a distraction, but the music is also engaging and probably makes it more likely for someone to view the whole video rather than quitting midway. Also the music seems plenty upbeat to me. On the other hand, I think Omar is totally right that it needs to be uploaded as a separate file. When Kal is matching video to the narration, he can easily lengthen megajester's pauses to make things mesh a little better where necessary, but with the music already added that flexibility disappears. To me, it makes sense to mix in the music as the last element. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by FireBorn on May 20th, 2010, 1:09pm True, okay, I'll upload it separately. Edit: wow, the room reverb is pretty strong in headphones. I think I'll just remove it, tonight... |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by FireBorn on May 20th, 2010, 6:47pm Okay, I've added version "musiconly" and version "noreverb" (which is touched up narration only without reverb). Please deleted "touchedup" version since noreverb version replaces it. Thanks Omar |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on May 20th, 2010, 9:36pm I have to admit I burst out laughing when I first heard the mix. I suppose I was expecting something a bit more "chillout". :D I've got used to the idea now though, I think it's great, the video'll be really fun! I do think the music needs to be a little bit quieter though, we want our viewer to be able to concentrate on understanding the rules. We're all used to them, but for a newb they can be a wee bit complicated... Great work Fireborn! Now let's see what Fritzie comes up with... |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by FireBorn on May 20th, 2010, 10:25pm on 05/20/10 at 21:36:11, megajester wrote:
Yeah, I thought you might. Glad you got used to the idea though lol |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on May 21st, 2010, 6:19am Hey you know what guys, forget the BBG contest, this is a brilliant way to publicise Arimaa internationally. The other videos have text in them, whereas all you'll need to do with this one is translate and re-dub it. (And perhaps replace the "Arimaa" text at the beginning.) Everybody prefers having rules explained to them instead of reading rules off a page... What we'd do is split up the script into sections, and translate each section. We'd get the narrator to make one recording and say "Section Number X" at the beginning of each section, so that Kal (or whoever else gets this exciting job :)) would know where to paste it in. I know I'd be more than happy to do the translation and dubbing for Turkish. Maybe this is premature, seeing as we don't actually have a video yet, but I thought this might at least inspire us that bit more. Just a thought... |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 21st, 2010, 9:30am Moved the files we are not using to a trash directory. Great idea Joel. We do see a lot of international users and having a tutorial in ones native language would make it much easier to learn the rules. This would also give many people a chance to participate and provide audio in their favorite language. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Eltripas on May 21st, 2010, 2:32pm I think I can make one in spanish |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on May 25th, 2010, 9:39pm I checked out arimaa_box. Fritzie, you guys are hilarious! Well done and keep up the good work! |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by kalsyed on May 26th, 2010, 8:38am i posted the first scene, under the video folder... need your guys input to make sure its on the right track... btw, video is saved as low resolution in windows media format... final will be hd quality -ks |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by FireBorn on May 26th, 2010, 9:30am Awesome! The pace strikes me as a bit fast, but it might just be me. Great work so far! |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 26th, 2010, 10:30am Great job, Kal! Yes, it is a bit helter-skelter so far, but it is just the opening, so it seems appropriate to me. My only worry is that if you start trying to incorporate the video Katie and I made, things will get too boring. But your first scene reminds me that you can add circles and arrows and stuff as needed. Your part of this project is clearly going to be the most difficult and time-consuming, but then again you will have some serious pride of achievement if you pull it off. Thanks! |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by SpeedRazor on May 26th, 2010, 2:24pm Kal, you rock! Kasparov, Einstein, Omar! That's a tré professional opening! I wish there was something that I could add... This video likely will win easily! One side benefit: many of the judges have their own BoardGame podcasts, so there may be some residual Arimaa exposure there. Even though, lead judge, Tom Vassel, will likely thumb-down this game (as he's done before), Eric Summerer will probably still vote affirmative (as he's done before: "Arimaa is 'engaging'"). I'm impressed! Wow! |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by kalsyed on May 26th, 2010, 2:44pm i just uploaded a video... i'll keep posting as im working on it... if something doesn't look right please let me know |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on May 26th, 2010, 3:05pm Oh man this video so rocks! Here's hoping they'll be judging the videos by their own merits and not the games themselves. If so then we'll wipe the floor even with Vassel! PS: With regards to the "international" idea, I can see now that asking you to cut and paste dialogue in a whole bunch of foreign languages is really asking too much. How would it work if, after you've finished with the English one of course, you also release a generic "translation-ready" version? The initial frame would just say "Arimaa" instead of "How to play Arimaa" and would just have the music in the background. Then we translators could use whatever Movie-Maker-type program we like to add narration. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by FireBorn on May 26th, 2010, 3:06pm Hmmm...the music doesn't seem to the match the video. I'll look for some new music and upload it if I find something better. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on May 26th, 2010, 3:09pm on 05/26/10 at 15:06:31, FireBorn wrote:
Hey what about Röyksopp's "Eple" (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ecxv_royksopp-eple_music)? EDIT: I just checked and it turns out we could get taken down for copyright infringement if we do that... if not Eple what about something like it? |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 26th, 2010, 3:49pm Stupendous work, Kal. On a couple of our videos we uploaded excess footage and/or multiple takes; if it would help you out we would be willing to give you a list of video times that correspond to various spots in the narration. But perhaps you want to wade through it all anyway to have maximum choice. Zooming in on my second setup made the quality significantly lower than the surrounding video, but maybe in the hi-res version that section will still be higher than what YouTube will reduce it to, i.e. the on-line encoding will level it out anyway, so it doesn't matter. I think the music is great just as it stands, although I wouldn't want to deter anyone from finding something better. :) |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by kalsyed on May 26th, 2010, 5:03pm posted another one... sorry for the poor quality, im trying to keep the file size down... once you guys okay it, the final video will be saved in HD 16:9 format which will look great! > megajester, i'll save one without the voice over, and change the title to read "Arimaa" for the international video... >FireBorn, i like the background sound, but if you want to change it, i can make two video's and we can see which one everyone likes... for the credits at the end, can someone give me a list of names... also are we going to keep the same background music or is there a different sound bit for that... -kal |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by FireBorn on May 26th, 2010, 6:14pm on 05/26/10 at 15:09:49, megajester wrote:
Great idea! I like how the zooming used in Kal's edit is similar to the music video's (although perhaps only you and me would make the connection!). I doubt we'd suffer a copyright lawsuit, although if we were to upload it to youtube our audio could get disabled. I'll download the song, loop it to 5 minutes, and upload it... If we like it, we can decide whether to take the risk or not. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 26th, 2010, 7:43pm Wow, awesome composition Kal. Using the funny Einstein image was very clever; it sets a humorous tone for the rest of the video. I didn't notice that Karl and Katie were wearing gold and silver until Aamir pointed it out. Nice touch :-) The current music actually complements the video pretty good. I'm wondering of this music might be copyrighted though. Maybe we can also try "The Entertainer" and see how that goes. I don't think there would be any copyright problems with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Entertainer_(rag) Kal, try to use visual transition effect as much as possible (like the waves transition after the freezing example). Also if you can add text overlay to describe what is about to be demonstrated (like "Setup" before the setup example) it might make it look even better. Although in the international version you would not want to have this. It is turning out really good. I think we have a good shot at winning. For credits you can say: Gold player: Karl Juhnke Silver player: Katie Hoody Voice: Joel Thomas Video editing: Kaleem Syed Written by: Karl Juhnke Music selection: Kenneth Chua Many thanks to the Arimaa community for suggestions and feedback. Maybe during the credit roll we can play the theme from Mission Impossible :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baoW9sVGH6g |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by SpeedRazor on May 26th, 2010, 8:18pm I was impressed that the number of permutations of openings was "64 million". As a game that can be played on a chessboard with perfect economy (every piece is used and every piece is used exactly once), this seems so apropos. Maybe this exact integer could be added as an text overlay to add an air of credibility? BTW (anybody): what exactly is this number? |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 26th, 2010, 8:25pm on 05/26/10 at 20:18:15, SpeedRazor wrote:
64,864,400 |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 26th, 2010, 8:58pm on 05/26/10 at 19:43:31, omar wrote:
Agreed, thanks mostly to the awesome compilation. Quote:
I know that in Hollywood the actors think they are hot stuff, but for a project like this the top billing should definitely be for video editing. "Narrator" sounds cooler than "Voice", and "Fritz" sounds cooler than "Karl". Finally, I think there should be credits for game design. So I submit: Edited by: Kaleem Syed Written by: Fritz Juhnke Narrated by: Joel Thomas Music selection: Kenneth Chua Silver player: Katie Hoody Gold player: Fritz Juhnke Game design: Omar and Aamir Syed Key grip: What the heck is a key grip, anyway? Many thanks to the Arimaa community for suggestions and feedback. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by kalsyed on May 27th, 2010, 8:08am i posted another update (_arimaa_clip_21_take_3_low_res ) the credits with music are missing at the end... what sound bit have we agreed on for the ending... [omar] i like your idea about Mission Impossible, has everyone agreed or is there another sound clip? also, you can delete the pervious video files... [Fritz] your right about the zooming, i tested a HD output video and the quality was much lower in the zoomed areas... i reduced those shots from the previous 9x down to 6x... it seems to work better... thanks! i like the credit list Fritz purposed, with a couple changes... i think Kal sounds cooler than Kaleem, im not sure i need to be at the top, you guys did all the work... also i think we should add Sound Consultant, Video Consultant and Script Consultant (we can replace Consultant with Advisor or something else if it sounds better)... this is so we can incorporate everyone's names from this forum [BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules]... the more the merrier... -kal |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by kalsyed on May 27th, 2010, 8:51am i forgot to mention the text overlays... if someone wants to help with this part of the project that would be great! i don't think i qualify for this task... a text file similar to Arimaa_Rules.txt would be great... just write the time from the video, along with the text overlay in that spot, and maybe even a time duration... example:
-kal |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by FireBorn on May 27th, 2010, 9:16am Great work Kal! Yeah, I think the music is fine now that I've seen the whole video. I won't waste time with the other music then. But I'll check if this music is copyrighted, although I doubt we'll run into problems since it's from the 20s. But I just realized something. We never explicitly stated the strength-order of the pieces in the script!? |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Hippo on May 27th, 2010, 12:10pm on 05/26/10 at 20:18:15, SpeedRazor wrote:
on 05/26/10 at 20:25:50, Fritzlein wrote:
I get 16*15*7*13*6*11*5*9=(7*11*13)*(16*6*9*15*5)=1001*(8*81*100)=648*100100=64,864,800. BTW: Very good job so far |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 27th, 2010, 12:44pm on 05/27/10 at 12:10:02, Hippo wrote:
Thanks. I just copied the answer from my book, and my book has a typo. I'll put it on the list of things to correct in the second edition that is never going to happen. ;D |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by rbarreira on May 27th, 2010, 12:46pm on 05/27/10 at 12:44:49, Fritzlein wrote:
Oh... you have an errata? You should put it on a website or something (great book btw). |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 27th, 2010, 1:31pm on 05/27/10 at 08:51:11, kalsyed wrote:
Here are some text overlay suggestions: 0:08-0:09 computer scientist (arrow to Omar) 0:14-0:16 Imagination is more important than knowledge. 0:25-0:28 strongest pieces (arrows to elephants) weakest pieces (arrows to rabbits) 0:54-0:57 Gold should have blocked this. (arrow to goal rabbit) 1:05-1:06 dead meat (arrow to gold rabbit) 1:07-1:10 can be pushed but not killed (arrow to silver rabbit) 1:18-1:23 64,864,800, to be exact 1:39-1:43 He should have blocked this one too. (arrow to goal square) 2:01-2:03 bogus move 2:14-2:17 (or 2:24-2:26) can step different directions 2:59-3:02 nowhere to push dog (arrows to three surrounding squares) 3:14-3:17 Silver had to take this back. 3:25-3:28 She had to take this back too. 3:38-3:41 friend makes trap safe (arrow to g6-rabbit) 4:09-4:11 Gloating is optional. 4:14-4:18 Elephant can't push friendly rabbit back! (arrow to b7 rabbit) 4:30-4:33 Dude, do something else! I tried to only add missing information or humor. However, it there is too much text and/or some of it doesn't feel right when you add it, please omit any or all of it. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by FireBorn on May 27th, 2010, 1:41pm Maybe put a big red circle with a line through it (or an X) over illegal moves, like they do for competitor products in infomercials :) |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on May 27th, 2010, 1:43pm on 05/27/10 at 13:31:52, Fritzlein wrote:
I have two concerns with text overlays. First of all, to someone learning about Arimaa for the first time, this video is already a whirlwind of information. I'm not sure adding on-screen text will make anything any clearer, because to be fair it is quite clear already, and I fear it will just add to the sensory overload. Secondly, in terms of the international video, I'm sure Kal realizes that all this on-screen text would mean him having to publish a new video for every single language. Unless he's happy with all that extra work, I think having just one generic translation-ready vid will be fine. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by FireBorn on May 27th, 2010, 2:03pm I agree with megajester. But I think adding symbols (like the big red X, or arrows) would clarify the information without being distracting, and it wouldn't have to be translated. However, we still need to add the strength-order of the pieces in somehow. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by rbarreira on May 27th, 2010, 2:18pm I think the video makes it perfectly clear what the narrator is talking about, since Fritz and Katie are always pointing at the important parts. Red circles seem unnecessary to me. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Nombril on May 27th, 2010, 5:23pm I thought there was going to be one for the "explain the rules" submission to BGG (could have all the subtitles), and then a second w/o the english text for the Arimaa website version w/ multiple voiceovers. Also, I don't think having the English subtitles would be all bad for the additional languages, but that is coming from someone who barely speaks a second language. I was impressed by the video, and don't have a strong opinion if most of the subtitles are added or not. For the BGG version, definitely need to add: 0:25-0:28 strongest pieces (arrows to elephants) weakest pieces (arrows to rabbits) As FireBorn pointed out, this wasn't specifically stated in the voiceover. I suppose you could splice a different voice clip there, but the text could be easier? |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 27th, 2010, 5:51pm Kal mentioned that he would like to include the name of everyone that posted in this thread in the credit list. Come to think of it if SpeedRazor had not brought the contest to our attention, this video would never have been made. Also others gave suggestions and feedback that helped to make the video better. So I like the idea of including the names of everyone who posted in this thread. However, I don't want to include anybody's name if they don't want it included. So, if anyone doesn't want to be include they can opt out by posting here. For the credits list lets take what Karl proposed and add some more name to it. Edited by: Kal Syed Written by: Fritz Juhnke Narrated by: Joel Thomas Music selection: Kenneth Chua Silver player: Katie Hoody Gold player: Fritz Juhnke Game design: Omar and Aamir Syed Key grip: What the heck is a key grip, anyway? Thanks to the members of the Arimaa community for suggestions and feedback: Zephyr Geist Patrick Dudek Ned Bent Vladan Majerech Eric Momsen Jeff Bacher Greg Magne Ivan Moreno Ricardo Barreira If I missed anyone, please don't hesitate to let me know. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 27th, 2010, 6:43pm For the text overlay I think we better keep the words to a minimum. Reading and listening at the same time can get to be a bit of an information overload. Just one or two words to summarize what is being presented should be enough. Here is what I suggest: 0:30-0:36 Strongest to Weakest (shown below the pieces) 0:52-0:56 Goal 1:12-1:17 Setup 1:18-1:23 64,864,800 1:50-1:55 Movement 2:10-2:15 4 Steps 2:24-2:30 Freezing 2:42-2:47 Pushing 3:02-3:07 Pulling 3:31-3:36 Capturing 4:06-4:11 Elimination 4:13-4:18 Immobilization 4:20-4:25 Repetition |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 27th, 2010, 7:41pm When I was playing the video again and again to find the times it seemed that the background music should have a bit less volume. Maybe after the intro section (when the players display the board and get ready to play) the music could be faded down a bit. Also the overall volume of the video might need to be raised a bit. When I play other videos on youtube and then play the Arimaa video I find that I need to raise the volume up a bit to hear it properly. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Eltripas on May 27th, 2010, 8:09pm I will do the recording of the rules in spanish on Saturday, but I'm a little worried about what fireborn stated previously about the fact that in the video it is not established the strength order of the pieces. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on May 27th, 2010, 9:41pm There's absolutely no reason why we can't add to our translations something like, "Their pieces are, in order of strength, one elephant..." for clarity. Standard translation practice. ;) As for the text overlays, if Kal doesn't mind copying and pasting text for each language then that's great, but speaking personally I can work with a video with no captions. @Nombril: Keeping the English captions will make the foreign language videos look amateurish and give Arimaa an "American-centric" reputation we really don't want. OK the closing credits are in English, but everybody's used to that with American films... |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Eltripas on May 28th, 2010, 4:21am on 05/27/10 at 21:41:10, megajester wrote:
Well, I wanted to said basically the same that you did so it could fit the video. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on May 28th, 2010, 5:47am on 05/28/10 at 04:21:16, Eltripas wrote:
Oh sure, that's always a consideration as well. As a general rule translations are almost always longer than the original. Doesn't matter which language you're translating from or to. So you have to give and take a little. Fortunately this is an off-screen narration, so we aren't constrained in the same way as in dubbing dialogue. Our sentences don't have to start and finish at the same time as in English. After all, who's checking? If they solve this problem with on-screen text in English, it seems feasible for us to make a small addition to the narration. EDIT: Oh I'm sorry Eltripas, it just dawned on me that you're actually agreeing with me! :-[ However I hope that my comments were helpful. I'm a trained translator, you see, this is what I do all day every day, so if you get stuck I hope to be able to help. @Omar: If you like, I could write a "translation tips" sheet. It could be useful both for this vid and for other "international" things. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by kalsyed on May 28th, 2010, 1:10pm i posted the video (low res) let me know... there is still time for changes... -ks |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by SpeedRazor on May 28th, 2010, 1:38pm That is an absolutely fantastic video! (And with only 8 seconds to spare!) It might not just win first; it might actually sweep all eight judges! (I can't even imagine Tom Vassel daring to give this a second place...) Extraordinary job, everybody! (Especially those who Really burned the midnight oil.) |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 28th, 2010, 2:03pm on 05/28/10 at 13:10:57, kalsyed wrote:
Two final suggestions: First, scroll the end credits a bit slower. You have 19 seconds but you only used 13 of them. We might as well fill up our entire allotted five minutes rather than blitzing the credits too fast to read. Even if you can't slow down the credits, at least dwell a little longer on the final mission. Second, the "Impossible Mission" at the end is hilarious, but it should begin, "Your mission, should you choose to accept it," because that is what always happens on the show. Maybe I would also modify the mission text to be "Write software to defeat three top humans in an Arimaa Challenge Match by 2020. Your reward: $10,000." That sounds more clipped and military (at least to my ears) than the current mission text. Otherwise, I'm ready to stick a fork in it and call it done. (There are also some hoops to jump through for officially submitting it; maybe Omar can take care of that.) I recently reviewed the other submissions, and I think ours is the best, so I'm expecting to win. Great teamwork! |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by FireBorn on May 28th, 2010, 2:06pm Looks awesome. I may have to edit the narration again since I seem to have injected some sort of demonic background voice if you listen carefully. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Elmo on May 28th, 2010, 2:07pm Exceptional work, Kal! I think your video makes all of us proud to be a part of this group effort! The only thing I would change is the placement of the "Strongest to Weakest" text overlay. I think that how it is now could suggest that the strongest pieces are on the left (Silver!) and the weakest pieces are on the right (Gold). A possible solution would be to write "Weakest" near the top center of the screen, with one arrow pointing diagonally toward the silver rabbits and another arrow pointing toward the gold rabbits. And write "Strongest" closer to the middle of the screen with arrows pointing straight down to the two elephants. I'm sure there are other ways to clarify this, but I think that leaving it as it is might be confusing to some viewers. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on May 28th, 2010, 2:17pm This is me watching the video: http://mfrost.typepad.com/cute_overload/images/2008/11/30/monkeyeating_1122948i.jpg W-O-O-O-O-O-O-W! And now I totally get the Mission Impossible music! (Although I think it skips a beat there...) Great job everyone! PS: About the international version... If you release a generic no-narration, no-text-overlay version it'll give translators the freedom to add the text or not as they see fit for their own language's requirements. Thanks again. Btw, what software did you use for this? Is it free? :) |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by SpeedRazor on May 28th, 2010, 2:24pm Maybe the first second or two of the video should have an interesting still-photo splash screen to entice people to actually run the video, and not skip down to something that might look more flashy. Maybe something like the box cover photo at 4:37? I'd just hate to see people not viewing the video because the initial still-photo didn't look as interesting as the next video... |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Hippo on May 28th, 2010, 3:03pm The video is amazing. I am really late to change anything ... and probably you don't think it is important rule to be mentioned. The listener could think the rabbit stepped to goal rank means win, but actually only rabbit turned to the goal rank matters. I suppose we don't have time to change it, even when only small number of words changed could help. ... turn ending with rabbit on goal rank ... or so. It's compromise between exactness and clarity and I think we made well for 5 minutes video (there are further less important rules we surely have no time to explain so one have to stop on some level). May be more important problem is not mentioning the arimaa.gameroom. ... What about the trailing 5s to include this information in titles? (More information on arimaa.com or so). I don't think mantioning online version is problem in board game presentation. But am I right? Probably message You are welcome on arimaa.com ... would be too much? |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 28th, 2010, 3:23pm According to the rules of the contest we are entering, this is supposed to be a rules video, not a promotional video. We bent that rule a little in the opening and closing, but hopefully not too much. One could argue that the Arimaa Challenge is closer to relevant, neutral information about Arimaa, whereas "come play here" is only about arimaa.com. As for the corner cases of the rules, such as a rabbit stepping on and off the goal line, I wish we could have been complete, but five minutes is just too short for a special case that has only arisen in one actual game as far as I am aware. A much more important omission is that we didn't specifically say that you can't push your own pieces. I suggested a text overlay to clarify that, since the immobilization position visually illustrates not being able to push your own pieces, but I was vetoed on that so as not to increase the load on the viewers. The basic Arimaa rules aren't too bad, but at the end of the day, there really are too many fussy rule details for five minutes. You could jam them in, sure, but the viewer wouldn't be able to absorb them due to information overload. Anyway, as you say, it's probably too late to change anything about the script now. The deadline is so close we are probably down to only changes that Kal can make by himself, and perhaps even his time to devote to this project is limited. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by FireBorn on May 28th, 2010, 8:58pm on 05/28/10 at 14:06:59, FireBorn wrote:
Actually, I think it might be because of the compression on the video. Kal, does the HQ version have that weird demon voice in the background? |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Hippo on May 28th, 2010, 9:20pm on 05/28/10 at 15:23:09, Fritzlein wrote:
OK I agree :) |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on May 29th, 2010, 3:39am What's the link to the latest video? |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 29th, 2010, 5:01am This video is looking better and better :-) The mission impossible statement at the end was really clever. I had suggested that theme because getting this project done seemed like an impossible mission (well maybe not impossible, but certainly not easy). But I like the twist you gave it Kal :-) I like the suggestions that have been given and probably we have just enough time to incorporate these and finalize the video for submission. Here is a summary of the suggestions along with some of my own: 1. Start the background music as soon as the video starts. Right now it seems that the background music and narrator start together after the 'How to play Arimaa' shot. 2. 'Strongest to weakest' might seem confusing. Maybe we can have the word 'Strongest' appear first above the pieces with an arrow pointing straight down towards the elephants and then a second or two later the words 'to weakest' appear below the pieces with two arrows pointing diagonally toward the rabbits. 3. Start the mission impossible music as soon as the narrator finishes talking; even before the credits start rolling. This will also remove the strange sound before the credits. 4. Credits should scroll a bit slower and keep the last statement on a bit longer. Use up all 5 minutes of available time. 5. Reword the mission statement as Karl suggested. "Your mission, should you choose to accept it ... Write software to defeat three top humans in an Arimaa Challenge Match by 2020. Your reward: $10,000." 6. Over all volume of video needs to be a bit louder. 7. Fade down the background music a bit after narrator says "although it is more fun with a Zman Games Arimaa set". I would hate to have the judges say they couldn't hear the rules properly because of the background music. SpeedRazor's suggestion of having an interesting image at the beginning is good, but I think YouTube selects what image will appear when the video is not playing (from somewhere in the middle of the video) and we probably can't control that. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 29th, 2010, 6:41am on 05/29/10 at 03:39:24, Arimabuff wrote:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/ftp/ Click on the 'video' in the left navigation menu; scroll to the bottom and the current latest one is _arimaa_video_01.wmv |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Emaad on May 29th, 2010, 7:14am OMG :o WOOOW LOVE IT :D amazing good team work best arimaa video I've seen! do people now about this video yet they are going to be blown away. wow!!!! |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by SpeedRazor on May 29th, 2010, 7:51am on 05/29/10 at 07:14:26, Emaad wrote:
No, nobody has seen it yet, but it's going to be entered into this contest on BoardGameGeek here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/54380/?commentid=1557180#comment1557180 |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Emaad on May 29th, 2010, 8:18am thanks! I saw most of the videos and I think we have the most professional looking video :D the 50 dollars is ours! I don't think its alot but I guess we have to start small!! :) |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on May 29th, 2010, 9:55am Great video! It looks professional. Fritz the camera loves you. I like that superman moment when you permute the pieces at fast speed. You guys should do that for a living. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on May 29th, 2010, 9:58am on 05/29/10 at 08:18:04, Emaad wrote:
What matters is that it's good exposure. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Emaad on May 29th, 2010, 10:31am you're definetely right about that this is a good start! ;D |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by kalsyed on May 29th, 2010, 11:51am i uploaded another video (_arimaa_video_02) with these changes... on 05/28/10 at 14:03:55, Fritzlein wrote:
1) [Fritzlein] i slowed down the end credits, increased time for mission statement, changed mission statement as suggested... on 05/28/10 at 14:07:38, Elmo wrote:
2) [Elmo] i added the arrows as suggested on 05/28/10 at 14:17:31, megajester wrote:
3) [megajester] with the extended time i was able to add a few more beats ;D on 05/28/10 at 14:24:41, SpeedRazor wrote:
4) [SpeedRazor] i added the game board at the start on 05/28/10 at 15:03:59, Hippo wrote:
5) [Hippo] i added the words "For more info visit arimaa.com" at the end of the Credits under the Copyright on 05/29/10 at 05:01:00, omar wrote:
6) [omar] i changed the background music to start with the video and then a few seconds later the narration starts... i incressed the overall volume... lowered the background music after the intro... and started the credits music sooner and overlapping the background for a second... on 05/28/10 at 14:06:59, FireBorn wrote:
this might be to late now but... [FireBorn] the original file has this slight echo, i noted this in the last few of your recordings, your first recordings dont have this echo... also i only notice it on my headphones, it sounds great on my pc speakers... if you are going to record it again, i would suggest a change in the script from this... NARRATOR (V.O.) The Gold player and the Silver player each have sixteen pieces: one elephant, one camel, two horses, two dogs, two cats, and eight rabbits. to this... NARRATOR (V.O.) The Gold player and the Silver player each have sixteen pieces: from strongest to weakest, one elephant, one camel, two horses, two dogs, two cats, and eight rabbits. otherwise im okay with the text overlay explaining this... let's see what others think... if anymore changes let me know asap -ks |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Emaad on May 29th, 2010, 12:31pm just saw the updated video seems good but the font is a bit hard to read especially when it is overlapping the game board. maybe you can use adifferent style and may want to down size it abit |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 29th, 2010, 12:51pm Great work Kal. It looks more awesome every time around. I can think of lots more minor suggestions. For example, the final screen says "defeat three top humans in an official Arimaa Challenge by 2020", which doesn't make sense because there is only one Arimaa Challenge. You can talk about the Arimaa Challenge, but not an Arimaa Challenge. The official one is the only one, and it lasts for years. Plus defeating three humans over the course of the Arimaa Challenge is no good; you have to beat all three in the same year. The text "defeat three top humans in an Arimaa Challenge Match by 2020", on the other hand, makes sense because there is one match every year. However, that and other quibbles are starting to get relatively insignificant, whereas the extremely significant final deadline looms. I would be happy to stick a fork in it and call it done exactly as it. We're already going to win. ;D Also there is an argument for getting the "final" version uploaded several days before the final deadline, because you never know how the encoding of the provider will mess with you. It's no good getting it just perfect on Kal's computer, then uploading it the day before the deadline, only to discover that parts of it look terrible on YouTube. I think the time has come to submit a version so any last-minute comments can relate to that experience rather than to what we are downloading from the arimaa.com ftp. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by SpeedRazor on May 29th, 2010, 2:00pm on 05/29/10 at 12:51:50, Fritzlein wrote:
I noticed that the originator of the contest stated as a response to the third video entry (Micropul): "Editing to correct your video is a legal move in this contest. Just as long as it is done before the final deadline." That's good to know... Very impressive as it is, I must say! |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on May 29th, 2010, 2:13pm on 05/29/10 at 11:51:43, kalsyed wrote:
I'm afraid I won't be able to get you anything before Monday, and in any case I'm worried the sound quality won't match the rest of the video. I doctored the original in Audacity a bit before uploading it and I can't remember the exact settings. I agree with Fritz that we should just call it a day and upload what we've got. Everybody's done a fantastic job. Provided the on-screen text explaining "strongest to weakest" isn't too obviously a coverup, I think that's the best bet. Otherwise I think the relative order of strength is pretty intuitive anyway, and we may even get away without adding anything at all. After all, what else is the viewer going to think when we say "the pieces are: elephant, camel, horse, dog, cat, rabbit" followed by "stronger pieces can push and pull weaker ones"? Personally I hadn't noticed this omission at all until it was pointed out to us. I suspect the judges won't notice either. As for the rest of the omissions, I really don't think the judges are going to be in any position to know what we have or haven't omitted. We've already included a fairly comprehensive explaination of the alternate ways to win, which gives the impression of not having missed anything. Even if they did notice, the omissions are not so grave as to invalidate our statement at the end that "You are ready to play Arimaa!", which is the main point I think. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 29th, 2010, 2:42pm Great video. Kal, I'll send you info on how to upload it to a youtube account I created. Once it is there I can post in the BGG forum to enter the video in the contest. I think it will be easier than you sending the large video to me and then me uploading it to youtube. Thanks everyone for making this happen. |
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Title: Spanish rules Post by Eltripas on May 29th, 2010, 9:20pm I have uploaded the rules in Spanish under the music directory, it essentially says the same that Fritz wrote. I didn't thought it was so difficult to do this, my respect to megajester for doing such a good job. Before this I thought my voice sounded better. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by kalsyed on May 29th, 2010, 9:26pm i uploaded another video (_arimaa_video_05) with these changes... on 05/29/10 at 14:13:16, megajester wrote:
[megajester] no problem... i was able to fix the echo using an audio software. i replaced the videos audio track with the new file and it sounds great! on 05/29/10 at 12:31:49, Emaad wrote:
[emaad] i added more shadow effect... its easier to read now... also i changed the font type to match the music and style of the video... on 05/29/10 at 14:42:16, omar wrote:
[omar] i posted the latest version on the arimaa youtube channel (www.youtube.com/arimaa2) its looks great! make sure you watch it in HD ;) it was fun working with everyone!!! -kal |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Janzert on May 29th, 2010, 11:05pm Wow! I've only been lightly browsing the progress of the video and the youtube link above is the first I've seen any of it. That's a great video and truly remarkable for the time it was done in. Nice going everyone. Janzert |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on May 30th, 2010, 12:28am on 05/29/10 at 21:26:11, kalsyed wrote:
No need to watch it in HD; it looks great even at the lowest resolution. Much snazzier than I expected. Again, thanks so much for your efforts, Kal. The most glaring problem remaining is that you didn't get top billing in the credits. :P |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by chessandgo on May 30th, 2010, 3:48am It's absolutely awesome! I'm amazed, wonderful work everyone! I'm going to harass my friends and coworkers until they have all watched it :) |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Emaad on May 30th, 2010, 6:46am the video is amazing :D we've got the contest in the bag!!!! and it's the best arimaa \video I've ever seen |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by kalsyed on May 30th, 2010, 9:05am on 05/28/10 at 14:17:31, megajester wrote:
[megajester] i uploaded a video (arimaa_video_no_text_narration ) with no narration and no text overlays... it is in HD with FLV compression format... this should be perfect for anyone interested in making international versions... the software i used was AVS... its not free, but its not expensive either... the cost is only $59 which includes video software, audio software, image software and much more... if you want more info go to www.avs4you.com on 05/29/10 at 21:20:36, Eltripas wrote:
[Eltripas] you can download the video (arimaa_video_no_text_narration ) and overlay the sound on this video... i think it will work out great... Note: these final videos are in the main directory of BGG_contest... -ks |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by FireBorn on May 30th, 2010, 11:14am Awesome :). Proud to be a part of this production |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on May 30th, 2010, 11:53am I just submitted the video to the BGG contest. http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/54380/video-rules-contest-entry-s50-top-prize-and-ma The final video looks incredible. Lets keep out fingers crossed and hope for the best. Thanks everyone for making this happen. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by leo on May 30th, 2010, 1:36pm Funny actor play and fast-forwards :D And very good job at putting it all together. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by rabbits on May 30th, 2010, 4:31pm The video turned out really well! Good job to everybody who contributed. (I wish I had posted in this thread sooner ;)) My only complaint is that the code at the beginning is written in VisualBasic :-/ |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by 99of9 on May 31st, 2010, 5:30am Great stuff guys & gals. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on Jun 2nd, 2010, 8:36am @Kal Would you mind saving the international video in either mpeg or avi format as well? Windows Media Player isn't having flv, and I'm having a devil of a job trying to get the video converted. Thanks |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Eltripas on Jun 2nd, 2010, 12:45pm on 06/02/10 at 08:36:29, megajester wrote:
You can download the k-lite codec pack from here http://files.3dnews.org/pub/soft/multimedia/codec/klcodec600f.exe , if you install this codec pack you will be able to open flv and a lot of other formats with the WMP. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on Jun 3rd, 2010, 4:45am on 06/02/10 at 12:45:50, Eltripas wrote:
Eltripas I love you! I ended up downloading from somewhere else, but I tell you. When the installer wanted to delete my existing codecs I wasn't too sure but Movie Maker flies now! Got rid of all the useless junk I had instead of codecs. So good news! As soon as Omar helps me out we'll have the vid up and running in Turkish... You know we keep saying our main target player base is chess players. Well then, somebody get this baby translated into Russian!!! |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on Jun 3rd, 2010, 6:44am The contest deadline was just extended to June 14. Bah. If it had been kept at June 4, we would have won hands down, but now there is time for more latecomers. Still, it isn't clear whether the extension will actually attract more entries or is just wishful thinking. If we wanted to make further changes to our contest entry, we would now have the time to do so, although it mostly depends on Kal's enthusiasm. It's a lot easier to generate ideas for changes than it is to actually implement them. ;D |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on Jun 3rd, 2010, 7:37am on 06/03/10 at 04:45:49, megajester wrote:
...and German. Although all the champions come from Russia there are far more German grandmasters than in Russia... |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Sconibulus on Jun 3rd, 2010, 8:52am That's just because Germany makes more efficient use of his chess players. I don't think anyone would believe that there weren't more chess players in Russia, the population alone makes that possibility remote. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Nevermind on Jun 3rd, 2010, 1:42pm I just watched the video and it looks nice. However, I noticed that it does not state the rule that one can still complete a pull even if the pulling piece is captured on a trap square. As one of the categories was completeness of rules, this is something that might warrant an update given the extended deadline. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on Jun 3rd, 2010, 3:48pm The Turkish version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAf3Fks1GKM) is now uploaded to Youtube. Since Youtube is still banned in Turkey and difficult to access, I've uploaded it to izlesene.com (http://www.izlesene.com/video/oyun-arimaa-nasil-oynanir/2199587) as well. If anybody's interested... |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on Jun 3rd, 2010, 4:38pm on 06/03/10 at 13:42:50, Nevermind wrote:
One might argue that that’s a logical conclusion from the stated rules. After all, it doesn’t say that the pull doesn’t work when the pulling piece is taken afterward. We have a say in France: "Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien" "The better is the enemy of the good". Plus that's a lot of work for a very small result. It's hard to insert a few words inside an existing speech without making it sound unnatural so that means that the entire text would have to be recorded again and then resynchronized with the existing images by two different persons. All of which could result in a video of a lesser quality than the one we have now. Need I say more? |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on Jun 4th, 2010, 1:39am You know what nevermind? I never noticed myself that that was missing and I am guessing that not one of the experienced players (other than you) that checked this thread has either. In fact, I never even noticed that rule before I forced a bot to suicide its elephant and it pulled a piece in the process. Therefore, I’ll bet Euros to road apples that none of the judges ever will unless one of them happens to check this site goes to the forum and sees your comment or some hostile element draws his attention to it. So why don't you do us all a favor and simply erase the darn thing, as I'll do my responses afterward. I am guessing that if Omar erases it, you won't be a full-blown pest and repost it, will you? |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Hippo on Jun 4th, 2010, 3:05am Arimabuff@: May be I have missed a deleted post, but I don't see anything wrong with the Nevermind note ... except if you interpret it as a request to change the video now (OK, my English is wrong and I don't understand the last sentence well :)). As I mentioned we would always find a rule which would be better to omit in the video due to 5 minut limitation. I am not sure if this rule belongs there, but surely it's too late to include it in video now. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Nevermind on Jun 4th, 2010, 4:26am I don't myself think that the omission warrants any change to the video. I just thought that there might be people who think it does, but simply have not noticed it. I concur that it might be logically derived from the rules explained, but also recognize that it might not. Again, my comment was meant as a knee-jerk feedback to the video. The fact that someone has not noticed the rule does not make it less important: chessandgo won one of his world championship games with a sacrificial pull move. Finally, I will not delete my posts about the subject. Why should I? To suggest it is just laughable to me. Do you also think we should make an effort to conceal the games in which these moves have happened? You are inevitably drawing more attention to this issue than it would otherwise have warranted with that ridiculous comment. The ones responsible for editing this video may act on my comment however they like. I still believe that it is good that someone brings up things that might otherwise have gone unnoticed. Just sayin... |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on Jun 4th, 2010, 9:04am on 06/04/10 at 04:26:25, Nevermind wrote:
It isn't; especially when it comes too late to do anything about it and from someone who hasn't done a darn thing to help it up until then. The net result of your misguided comment is to make the people who put so much effort into it feel bad or at least less good about their great work and as I mentioned before that it may attract undue attention to a detail that most people didn't know was there until you mentioned it. IOW at best, you're useless and at worst, you're a nuisance. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by RonWeasley on Jun 4th, 2010, 9:38am I noticed, or maybe just don't remember correctly, that the rule about temporarily putting the opponent's rabbit on the scoring row not being a goal was not mentioned. But much like the sacrifice pull, I don't recommend changing the video just for that. I didn't look at all the competitors, but having entered, and sometimes won, humor contests, even though our entry looks like the best, and it looks great to me, doesn't mean it will win. The real judges sometimes have an unexpected point of view and like something else. In one exchange with such a judge, Pulitzer Prize-winning Gene Weingarten, he told me that people wrote him to ask why he hated them. They assumed he hated them because he did not publish their submissions. But Gene just thought there were others that were better. It's very subjective and it shouldn't be taken personally if you don't win. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on Jun 4th, 2010, 11:47am on 06/04/10 at 09:04:08, Arimabuff wrote:
Patrick, this is uncalled for. Why must you resort to name-calling to settle differences of opinion? It's counterproductive to whatever you are trying to accomplish. That is to say, you are hurting yourself. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on Jun 4th, 2010, 12:16pm on 06/04/10 at 11:47:23, Fritzlein wrote:
He started it. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on Jun 4th, 2010, 2:54pm on 06/04/10 at 12:16:05, Arimabuff wrote:
No, he didn't. Nevermind made no personal comments about you. All he did was disagree with you. You lowered it to the level of personal insults. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by leo on Jun 4th, 2010, 5:52pm on 06/04/10 at 09:04:08, Arimabuff wrote:
Arimabuff, I really don't think Nevermind had any intention of taking down the big work done for the contest. Your words, however, show that you feel hurt, but I think it comes from a misunderstanding and there should be a way to cool the debate. Feel free to disagree with me, but keep it cool ;) |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on Jun 4th, 2010, 9:52pm on 06/04/10 at 14:54:42, Fritzlein wrote:
There was nothing personal there. I was just talking about his comment and he started it by qualifying MY comment as laughable and later on as ridiculous. I can't help it if you are bent on finding fault in everything I say regardless of its merits. Just because I take a less devious and sneaky approach than the person I am addressing doesn't make me anymore insulting than them. The point I MADE and you chose to ignore is that his late addition did nothing good and is potentially harmful. Will you choose to ignore it once again or am I to see some sort of acknowledgement from you? |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Hippo on Jun 4th, 2010, 11:49pm OK, if I compere these two posts ... on 06/03/10 at 13:42:50, Nevermind wrote:
on 05/28/10 at 15:03:59, Hippo wrote:
We both mention simillar border problems and I suppose our intention was same. Happily I made my post much carefully to emphasise I am not sure how important it is and that it is probably late to change anything. Nevermind's post was much shorter. He didn't mention that but didn't mention the opposite as well. To accuse someone for something you think he thought is not wise. BTW: I agree it was really too late to change anything. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on Jun 5th, 2010, 5:51am You perceive that I am determined to find fault with you. I might make the analogy of a friend who tells you not to ride your motorcycle without a helmet. Your enemy would have no desire save you from hurting yourself. But if you insist, even your friend will relent and just let you do whatever you want to your own detriment. Personal freedom requires that people be allowed to make their own decisions and bear the consequences. The ultimate consequence of personal insults in the Arimaa forum is being banned from the forum. Omar is too forgiving to intervene on a first offense, but he will certainly intervene eventually. Your friends would wish you not to be banned from the forum, but if you are determined to engage in the behavior that leads to banning, they of course can't prevent it. And, if it came to that, the Arimaa community would be deprived of a creative, insightful, witty contributor, as well as a prolific, expert bot-basher. So I should clarify my earlier comment: you are not only hurting yourself. on 06/04/10 at 09:04:08, Arimabuff wrote:
on 06/04/10 at 21:52:56, Arimabuff wrote:
Your two statements don't match up to each other. If you were just talking about his comment, then you shouldn't have said you are useless and you are a nuisance. You should have said your comment is useless and your comment is a nuisance. Indeed, if you had said the latter, it would have been quite on par with Nevermind saying that your comment was laughable and ridiculous. I then would have had no reason to intervene. In this case, however, there was a clear distinction between what you said about him personally and what he said about something you wrote. Do you see why I interpreted the sentence I quoted as being personal? But since you never intended to insult Nevermind personally, you can clear up this little misunderstanding by saying, quite simply: "Nevermind, I don't think that you are useless and/or a nuisance, I only think that of your suggestion to alter the contest video." |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on Jun 5th, 2010, 8:50am on 06/05/10 at 05:51:38, Fritzlein wrote:
Agreed. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on Jun 6th, 2010, 4:58am I've made a Translation tips (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Translation_tips) page for anybody thinking of translating the vid, or indeed anything else to do with Arimaa. FYI |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Hippo on Jun 6th, 2010, 5:19am on 06/06/10 at 04:58:01, megajester wrote:
I don't understand Turkish. So I have read the back translation instead. ... I have notice these 2 things: There are two horses. Repeated third time. May be it's just on the wiki in the back translation ... Wow the first is corrected already :) |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on Jun 6th, 2010, 5:47am on 06/06/10 at 05:19:17, Hippo wrote:
And now the second is ;) BTW the original Turkish is correct, if there are any mistakes it's because I rushed the back translation. Please do let me know though. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Emaad on Jun 6th, 2010, 6:34pm wow I never thought that this arimaa video would get this popular let alone being translated into different languages :D |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Eltripas on Jun 7th, 2010, 4:41pm I've uploaded the video with the rules in Spanish, it doesn't have titles on it (I'm talking about the "strongest to weakest" thing and that other stuff), mainly because I don't know how to do that, plus I've spend way more time on this than I thought I would. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on Jun 7th, 2010, 8:38pm on 06/07/10 at 16:41:10, Eltripas wrote:
You mean subtitles, don't you? |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by FireBorn on Jun 7th, 2010, 10:38pm Actually, I believe in screenwriting it's called a title. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Harren on Jun 8th, 2010, 12:24pm Great video, guys! Winning this contest would be a good way to increase the popularity of arimaa even more ;) |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on Jun 8th, 2010, 10:15pm When is the decision due? |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Emaad on Jun 9th, 2010, 1:43pm I don't know but I hope it's soon since they allready extended the due date :( |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on Jun 12th, 2010, 8:51am on 06/08/10 at 22:15:28, Arimabuff wrote:
When the submission deadline was extended from June 4 to June 14, the judging deadline was moved to June 18. Therefore we certainly won't know how we did before June 18, and I wouldn't hold my breath for that exact date either; my experience is that an organizer who moves one deadline has no problem moving another one. In fact, because the submission deadline was moved in order to generate more entries, and because no additional entries have been submitted since the original June 4 deadline, I wouldn't be too surprised to see the deadline pushed out again along with some more begging to submit more videos. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on Jun 12th, 2010, 9:34pm Oops, just when I said that there had been no entries since the original deadline, someone submitted an excellent video for Carcassonne. We have some real competition. I am less confident than before about our video winning. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on Jun 14th, 2010, 5:39am on 06/12/10 at 21:34:06, Fritzlein wrote:
Oh man. Man oh man. That video seriously rocks. (But those guys are professionals anyway.) I reckon that one'll win. On merits it's probably neck-and-neck with our one, but Carcassonne is much more of a BBG kinda game. You know what I mean, flashy boxed multiplayer game you can take to parties. As opposed to Arimaa, which is much more in the "classic games" genre along with chess and go... Having said that, I think we've got something really great for the future with this video, and it's proven to us the hidden potential of the Arimaa community. Well done everyone! |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on Jun 14th, 2010, 12:24pm The contest submission deadline has passed. Many prizes are being awarded, and I expect our video will win at least one of those prizes. There is one prize, however, that we can make sure we win, and that is the "People's Choice" video. This award doesn't go the best video according to the rules or according to the panel of judges; it goes to the video that gets the most thumbs up in this list: http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/55766/item/1316012#item1316012 I urge everyone in the Arimaa community to go there and vote, although do so requires a BGG account. Furthermore, if you give thumbs up to the list itself (as well as to Arimaa), then you are in a drawing to win $20 yourself just for participating. This $20 is in addition to the People's Choice award that the video itself will win. ;D |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by FireBorn on Jun 14th, 2010, 1:32pm Ours is more amateurish, but also more charming and "democratic", imo. And international! Even if we don't win, the video is great and something to be proud of, and we should get some good exposure because of it. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Hippo on Jun 14th, 2010, 2:51pm Hmm, I have watched the carcasone video. Their rules don't match the rules I know ... farmers score 3 points for each closed city on the won meadows in our rules (if a city would score on two meadows, it scores just once and it gives 3 not 4 points (pig from one of carcasone extensions increases the closed city values on the meadow from 3 to 4)). The 2 tile closed city has exception in scoring ... giving just 2 points not usual 2*#tiles. If the rules I know are the usual ones, this could be thought as serious drawback. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on Jun 14th, 2010, 4:37pm on 06/14/10 at 14:51:25, Hippo wrote:
The Carcassonne video specifically says he is using first edition rules, so it isn't a mistake to give four points for farmers. But I notice that Tom Vasel, one of the official judges, didn't give that video a thumbs up, even though he gave almost every other video a thumbs up. So perhaps we can get our hopes up because one of the official judges has found fault with it. Also in the People's Choice voting, Carcassonne has only 14 votes, tied for third place, whereas our video has 20 votes, tied for first place with Zertz. Everyone make sure to vote here (http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/55766/item/1316012#item1316012). Note, this is a different thread from the original submission, so if you gave it thumbs up before, you still have to vote again in the new thread to have it count for anything. This is a good thing, because in the old thread Zertz had something like 30 votes before we even submitted ours, so now we can compete on level footing, but it also means that all of our old votes don't count. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on Jun 15th, 2010, 2:38am I have never heard of the game Carcassonne but I've spent almost a year in the French city of that name. It has a magnificent citadel btw. Does that count? |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Manuel on Jun 15th, 2010, 3:48am on 06/15/10 at 02:38:21, Arimabuff wrote:
I think the game is actually named after that city because of the citadel you mentioned. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Emaad on Jun 15th, 2010, 4:13am wow that carcasone video is good thats our first real competition we are definetley neck to neck :-/ |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on Jun 15th, 2010, 2:57pm We now lead the People's Choice voting with 58 thumbs up to Carcassonne's 49 and Zertz's 47. Also the only of the seven judges so far to declare a Judge's Choice selection (Eric Summerer) voted for Arimaa. So far so good! |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on Jun 15th, 2010, 3:18pm on 06/15/10 at 14:57:22, Fritzlein wrote:
ph00t! (That's the Arimaa elephant version of "w00t", by the way...) |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on Jun 15th, 2010, 3:50pm By the way, I recognize nine of the BGG thumbs up for the video as being Arimaa logins too, so the size of our lead equals the size of our enthusiasm. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on Jun 15th, 2010, 7:19pm Woohoo! Second Judge's Choice vote for us (Tom Vasel), while none of the other videos yet has a vote. Suddenly it's looking conceivable we could take the majority of Judge's Choice votes, and best in large publisher category, and People's Choice, and the grand prize. If so that would be a huge validation of our teamwork, as well as about $150 of prize money in Omar's pocket. I don't want to count our chickens before they're hatched, though, because five judges haven't spoken yet, and even Summerer and Vasel have to vote for grand prize and best in category differently than Judge's Choice, which is pure personal preference. Still, the early signs are very favorable! |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on Jun 15th, 2010, 9:20pm on 06/15/10 at 15:18:19, megajester wrote:
Let's hope we'll pwn them. ;) |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on Jun 15th, 2010, 9:26pm on 06/15/10 at 19:19:46, Fritzlein wrote:
or hatchet our counts before they chicken... |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on Jun 16th, 2010, 6:54am Woooow! Tom Vasel gave our video Judge's Choice, and we're currently running at 80 votes against 67 for Carcassone! The eggs are crackin... EDIT: Sorry Fritz you already said about Tom... I meant it's great that we have two judges choices when none of the others do. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on Jun 16th, 2010, 9:25am I just added my vote, since the rules say it's OK to vote for your own video. Now we are up to 81 votes :-) |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on Jun 19th, 2010, 11:36am The third official judge has spoken, and he gave the nod to Carcassonne over our video, although he also said nice things about us too. It's not surprising that he shaded against us at the end, because his comments specifically said that getting every detail of the rules presented (completeness) was not as important to him as the overall feel. I note that the contest rules themselves say completeness is important, but of course judging is always subjective. So now we have two Judge's Choice awards while Carcassonne has one, with four judges yet to speak. Also it is fairly safe to say we will win the People's Choice award, because we lead with 102 votes to Carcassonne's 79 and Zertz's 70 with voting having slowed to a bare trickle. It's not clear whether we will win the large publisher category prize or the grand prize, but I still like our position. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on Jun 20th, 2010, 12:16am on 06/19/10 at 11:36:07, Fritzlein wrote:
What a muppet! :D |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on Jun 20th, 2010, 2:12am It seems that they're gonna drag this on forever. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Emaad on Jun 20th, 2010, 4:25am on 06/20/10 at 02:12:13, Arimabuff wrote:
um..... guys I think they already finished all the voting because I went to the bgg page and it said that the judges choice is carcason and we were in the honorable mentions. thats what I saw but it was kind of hard to understand what was going on like they didnt name a second place or any thing :-/ |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on Jun 20th, 2010, 6:27am on 06/20/10 at 04:25:30, Emaad wrote:
Nah that was just the muppet making his choice. Two of the other judges have given us their vote. Four to go, we'll know tomorrow by "noon" whatever timezone that's supposed to be ;) |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Emaad on Jun 20th, 2010, 12:09pm thanks for clearing that up I was pretty confused good game fritz and jeh had |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on Jun 21st, 2010, 2:14pm Now Zertz has one judge's choice. We lead 2-1-1 with four judges yet to speak. It's odd that not all the results are in yet, since the judging deadline was today noon. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on Jun 21st, 2010, 3:24pm WE WIN!!!! Grand Prize, People's Choice, and three of five Judge's Choices. (I'm not sure what happened to the other three judges'.) Carcassonne gave us a run for the money, but we came out on top. Hooray for us! Thanks everyone! |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by FireBorn on Jun 21st, 2010, 4:04pm Woohoo! Awesome! |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by leo on Jun 21st, 2010, 5:11pm :) :) :) The reward of a team work that reflects the spirit of the Arimaa community :) :) :) |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Arimabuff on Jun 21st, 2010, 9:33pm on 06/21/10 at 15:24:34, Fritzlein wrote:
Great! |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by rbarreira on Jun 21st, 2010, 10:00pm Very nice :) Congrats everyone who was involved in the production! Let's hope this results in more people playing. edit -also, the BGG forum is very confusing, I can't even find the announcement with the winners despite having looked in the two official threads for the contest. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by RonWeasley on Jun 22nd, 2010, 3:47am on 06/21/10 at 15:24:34, Fritzlein wrote:
It was Fritz's rubbing his hands together that made the difference. That and Elmo's finger waggle. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by megajester on Jun 22nd, 2010, 6:51am on 06/21/10 at 15:24:34, Fritzlein wrote:
We Carcassowned them! :D LONG LIVE THE ARIMAA REVOLUTION! |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by chessandgo on Jun 22nd, 2010, 8:23am great, congrats! |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by FireBorn on Jun 22nd, 2010, 9:25am on 06/22/10 at 06:51:13, megajester wrote:
LOL |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by 722caasi on Jun 22nd, 2010, 9:59am Congratulations, Everyone who worked on this! You did a great job! |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by starjots on Jun 22nd, 2010, 1:23pm on 06/22/10 at 09:59:55, 722caasi wrote:
Agreed. I smiled throughout the video, especially at all that finger wagging. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on Jun 24th, 2010, 5:53pm on 06/21/10 at 15:24:34, Fritzlein wrote:
Wow, that's great. Congratulations everyone for an amazing job on this video. Karl, can you give a link to where this is announced, I can't seem to find it. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Fritzlein on Jun 24th, 2010, 8:29pm on 06/24/10 at 17:53:13, omar wrote:
http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/55766/item/1316012#item1316012 By my count your prize should be $50 (grand prize) plus $20 (people's choice) plus 3 x $20 (judge's choice) for a total prize of $130. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by omar on Jun 25th, 2010, 7:13am Thanks for link Karl. I would have thought it would be announced at the top of the thread or in a new thread :-) I checked my BGG messages and sure enough Cate contacted me confirming that I had won $130. I am going to use this towards the prize fund for the 2011 events. |
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Title: Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules Post by Emaad on Jun 26th, 2010, 7:24am yes!! ;D we won! I didnt know if we could beat carcason!! ;D |
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