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        Arimaa >> General Discussion >> Alternative notation used to record game moves
        
(Message started by: cvic on Oct 23^rd, 2010, 4:36pm)

Title: Alternative notation used to record game moves
Post by cvic on Oct 23^rd, 2010, 4:36pm

Regarding the match here
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Fritzlein_vs._Omar%2C_2005_Postal_Championship_Moves_1-10

I understand that
2g E^^^^ is the compact version of 2g Ee2n Ee3n Ee4n Ee5n

But I don't understand 2s EvHgvCf>M>

By analyzing the board it should be the equivalent of 2s hg7s cf7e me7e ed7s
but the exact mapping evades me.

So: ^ is north, v is south, > is east and < is west. How about the rest?

Title: Re: Alternative notation used to record game moves
Post by clojure on Oct 23^rd, 2010, 5:21pm

on 10/23/10 at 16:36:52, cvic wrote:

Regarding the match here
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Fritzlein_vs._Omar%2C_2005_Postal_Championship_Moves_1-10

But I don't understand 2s EvHgvCf>M>

Hi, I think:

"Ev" elephant down, "Hgv" horse on g file down, "Cf>" cat on f file east, "camel" east.

So the additional character is the column for dis-ambiguotation.

Title: Re: Alternative notation used to record game moves
Post by Sconibulus on Oct 23^rd, 2010, 11:12pm

Also, be wary, I think we have two different conventions used at different times. Sometimes E refers always to :ge and e to :se, other times E is player to move, and e is opponent.

I do believe that all arrows assume viewing from behind gold, and that the additional lowercase letters are files unless they're pushed pieces, although that can also be confusing, let's say you have a move that consists of Hdvv. Is that a Horse on d file moving two steps south, or a horse pushing an opposing dog two steps south? The problem with this is, depending on the situation both moves might be possible.

Title: Re: Alternative notation used to record game moves
Post by Fritzlein on Oct 24^th, 2010, 10:31pm

Yes, notation apart from the verbose gameroom notation is not standardized. Why (you may ask) doesn't everyone use the game room notation given that it is the only clear standard? Because it is verbose. Try typing it in the chat room during a live discussion, and you will instantly feel drawn to HvvHC> or some other shorthand. I expect that some replacement for gameroom notation, although not necessarily the replacement that I suggested, will eventually become standard. We are simply too lazy to type twenty characters for moves that can be described in six or seven.

Title: Re: Alternative notation used to record game moves
Post by clojure on Oct 25^th, 2010, 7:36am

I think the main reason for the short notation style is not because of the length but because it's easier mentally. Player who is going to communicate the move, has already a clear model in his head how the move works. The most natural translation is not in absolute coordinate but in relative moves.

On the other hand, when reading the notation, it takes more mental effort to translate from relative to a mental model, at least without getting oneself familiar with the notation by using it (brain adopts repeated thing to efficient structure).

Dare I say that there won't be any better textual notation. The future communication will be done in combined form of notation and embedded board in discussion. Or another way would be to have a collaboratively gametree where the audience client is listening players moves as main line but watchers could make variations to the tree.

Title: Re: Alternative notation used to record game moves
Post by Fritzlein on Oct 25^th, 2010, 1:01pm

on 10/25/10 at 07:36:12, clojure wrote:

Good point. I think the easiest notation will be one that reflects the way we think about moves, and also gets someone who isn't thinking about the same move on board efficiently. Those two objectives may conflict somewhat.

Title: Re: Alternative notation used to record game moves
Post by KingElephant on Dec 3^rd, 2010, 6:50pm

Instead of the north south east west notation, the notation format I expected to see when I arrived was one where the piece, the original square, and the new coordinate were named (since only one of the coordinates changes with each step).
Ee2n (current notation) would be equivalent to Ee23.
In cases where the current notation gives e for east and the new coordinate is e for the file there could be confusion between the two styles, but I believe that is easy to deal with.
dd8e (current notation) remains dd8e but
df8w (current notation) would be equivalent to df8e.
The type of notation I described is clearer to me personally. What do you think of it?

Title: Re: Alternative notation used to record game moves
Post by Fritzlein on Dec 3^rd, 2010, 7:42pm

Specifying start and destination makes about as much sense to me as the original compass directions, and has the advantage of allowing repeated movements by the same piece to be expressed succinctly, e.g. Ed234ef, although I guess that could also be rendered Ed2nnee. Also I have noticed Hippo referring to the destination square only, e.g. Ef4 to mean moving the elephant to f4 without specifying a path. This is parallel to chess notation, but doesn't cover pushes, pulls, or captures.