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        Arimaa >> General Discussion >> How to play aggressively?
        
(Message started by: Belteshazzar on May 26^th, 2011, 2:24pm)

Title: How to play aggressively?
Post by Belteshazzar on May 26^th, 2011, 2:24pm

Though I have nearly ascended the advanced bot ladder, I still for the most part haven't learned how to play aggressively. I keep finding myself in situations that seem to call for an aggressive move, but then I don't know what to do. Sometimes I do something aggressive only to have it work out badly. Other times I continue to play defensively, and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. The one thing I've been trying to do is to advance rabbits more quickly, to try to put the opponent on defense. Has anyone else been where I am and do you have any tips?

Title: Re: How to play aggressively?
Post by Fritzlein on May 26^th, 2011, 4:11pm

Yes, I have been there. That's when I started setting up with four forward rabbits. If the other guy pulls out your rabbits, your choice is to play aggressively or lose slowly. I hate losing slowly, so this forced me to attack more often.

Maybe it would be easier to give useful advice if you gave a specific example of a time when you thought you should attack but didn't pull the trigger.

Title: Re: How to play aggressively?
Post by Belteshazzar on May 26^th, 2011, 4:46pm

on 05/26/11 at 16:11:27, Fritzlein wrote:

Do you mean that you use that setup for training, rather than because you think it is an ideal way to start a game? If I practice starting with four rabbits in the front row and become good at it, will that translate into being more apt at making aggressive moves when necessary even when starting with a 99of9 setup?

Title: Re: How to play aggressively?
Post by Fritzlein on May 27^th, 2011, 12:01pm

on 05/26/11 at 16:46:13, Belteshazzar wrote:

Do you mean that you use that setup for training, rather than because you think it is an ideal way to start a game?

Yes, for training and for fun. I am far from convinced that four forward rabbits is optimal.

Quote:

If I practice starting with four rabbits in the front row and become good at it, will that translate into being more apt at making aggressive moves when necessary even when starting with a 99of9 setup?

The way to get better at attacking is to practice attacking. There isn't much else to say. It's like giving dieting tips; the only principle is to eat less and exercise more. Everything else is motivation and habit. Having four rabbits forward in the setup motivates me to attack, so that I get more of the practice I need. And for dieting, I recommend eating more slowly, savoring every bite, so that even eating less can be a very positive experience. :)

Title: Re: How to play aggressively?
Post by Belteshazzar on May 27^th, 2011, 1:20pm

What specific setup do you think is best for this purpose?

Title: Re: How to play aggressively?
Post by Fritzlein on May 27^th, 2011, 2:07pm

on 05/27/11 at 13:20:37, Belteshazzar wrote:

What specific setup do you think is best for this purpose?

I use
RHRMERHR
RCRDDRCR
but it doesn't matter. Blue22, Adanac, haizhi, and other aggressive players use different setups and still attack ferociously.

Title: Re: How to play aggressively?
Post by Belteshazzar on May 27^th, 2011, 3:14pm

Thanks. I just beat bot_Bomb2005P2 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/opengamewin.cgi?client=1&gameid=185542&role=v&side=b) with that setup, playing aggressively. Bomb seemed eager to take my rabbits, which worked to my advantage.

Title: Re: How to play aggressively?
Post by Fritzlein on May 27^th, 2011, 4:43pm

on 05/27/11 at 15:14:15, Belteshazzar wrote:

Nice win. Part of the point of my setup is indeed that if you have a rabbit behind your trap, you can lose at most a rabbit in that trap. This makes it a lot easier to give up control of a home trap in exchange for an attack.

Title: Re: How to play aggressively?
Post by Belteshazzar on Aug 24^th, 2011, 1:12am

What would have been some good aggressive moves to make in this game (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=194162&s=b)?

Title: Re: How to play aggressively?
Post by Manuel on Aug 24^th, 2011, 3:09am

on 08/24/11 at 01:12:52, Belteshazzar wrote:

What would have been some good aggressive moves to make in this game (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=194162&s=b)?

A few mistakes I see in that game are:
- You did not cover the way back for your camel, so it was bound to get hostaged. Maybe 6s ed5w ec5s hb6s hb5s would have helped. Or otherwise you were too early to bring the camel to the b3 square. An attack of a trap should be with more pieces so that they can unfreeze each other or with pieces you don't care if they get hostaged (not your camel!)
- On 16s it was a bad choice to go for the capture race. Your opponents attack was much stronger (better pieces to capture and his attack was actually a goal attack), so it would have been better to defend.
- If you take over an opponents trap (as in 16s), make it a goal attack rather than just a capturing attack by bringing a rabbit forward as soon as possible. This is much more forcing.

Title: Re: How to play aggressively?
Post by Belteshazzar on Aug 30^th, 2011, 3:15pm

I have now beaten Sharp2011P2 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=194777&s=b) and also Marwin2011P2 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=194880&s=b) having started with four rabbits in front, though I didn't play very aggressively in either case. Is there anything else I can do to force myself to attack more often?

Title: Re: How to play aggressively?
Post by ginrunner on Sep 1^st, 2011, 1:05am

attack in what way? activate more pieces and control the opponents traps? create more rabbit scoring threats? Attempt to create dangerous situations instead of waiting for the opponent to mess up on their own accord and beating them that way? aggressive can mean many things.

Title: Re: How to play aggressively?
Post by Belteshazzar on Sep 30^th, 2011, 7:05am

on 09/01/11 at 01:05:41, ginrunner wrote:

All of the above, but mainly the first one. Maybe I should go back to the weak bots and practice attacking the enemy traps, and work back up from there.

Title: Re: How to play aggressively?
Post by ginrunner on Sep 30^th, 2011, 2:58pm

Attacking, at least for me, requires more patience than defending because you need to set multiple pieces up so they can all attack at once or at least close enough together. If you rush in one at a time you will get eaten. Activate your pieces and put them in threatening positions and when the time is right move them all in.

Title: Re: How to play aggressively?
Post by Nombril on Nov 14^th, 2011, 8:28pm

Hmm.... I'm catching up on my reading.

If you want to practice "aggressive" attacks - I suggest making an extra rule for yourself that you will not capture or hostage pieces by your home traps. (Never pull a rabbit or other pieces, etc)

I wouldn't limit it to the weaker bots - that would probably teach bad habits.

Title: Re: How to play aggressively?
Post by Belteshazzar on Feb 7^th, 2012, 8:16pm

on 11/14/11 at 20:28:55, Nombril wrote:

If you want to practice "aggressive" attacks - I suggest making an extra rule for yourself that you will not capture or hostage pieces by your home traps. (Never pull a rabbit or other pieces, etc)

Perhaps the rule should be "keep your elephant on the enemy's home half of the board, except to fight an aggressive camel".

Title: Re: How to play aggressively?
Post by Fritzlein on Feb 8^th, 2012, 7:30am

on 02/07/12 at 20:16:55, Belteshazzar wrote:

Perhaps the rule should be "keep your elephant on the enemy's home half of the board, except to fight an aggressive camel".

It's a good rule of thumb to chase with your elephant when the opposing camel attacks, but that's not going to get you a lot of practice attacking. Another rule of thumb is that the player who is more reckless with his camel is the one that gets to play an attacking game. If you want to practice attacking, you have to be more willing to put your camel in danger than the other guy is willing to put his camel in danger.

Not that you should lead every attack with a camel. It's better to try to lead with a flank-horse-central-elephant combo and then follow that with a camel. But (to repeat), if you want practice attacking, you don't want to be the guy using your elephant to chase an attacking camel; you want to be the guy forcing the opponent to chase your attacking camel with his elephant.