Arimaa Forum
        (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/forum/cgi/YaBB.cgi)
      

        Arimaa >> General Discussion >> Positioning of camels
        
(Message started by: Belteshazzar on Jun 9th, 2011, 12:33pm)
Title: Positioning of camels
Post by Belteshazzar on Jun 9th, 2011, 12:33pm
If Gold in its setup decentralizes its camel, should Silver place its camel on the same wing as Gold's?  
Title: Re: Positioning of camels
Post by Fritzlein on Jun 9th, 2011, 12:47pm

on 06/09/11 at 12:33:33, Belteshazzar wrote:
If Gold in its setup decentralizes its camel, should Silver place its camel on the same wing as Gold's?  

That depends on the position of the Gold elephant and horses.  Look at my ongoing Postal Mixer game with chessandgo.  I consider Silver's setup to be a refutation of Gold's setup, i.e. after move 1s Silver is already leading.  However, that doesn't mean I believe every Gold setup with a decentralized camel can be thus refuted.  Arimaa opening theory is very much a work in progress.  I sense that you will ask a followup question, and that I will have no idea how to answer it.  :)
Title: Re: Positioning of camels
Post by Swynndla on Jun 9th, 2011, 9:09pm
I found the link to view the games:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/tourn/postal/2011/showGames.cgi
Title: Re: Positioning of camels
Post by Belteshazzar on Jun 15th, 2011, 5:20pm
I guess what I was really asking is, when Gold decentralizes its camel, how should Silver respond? Was my setup response here (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/opengamewin.cgi?client=1&gameid=187581&role=v&side=w) good? Sure, I won, but I kept getting the feeling that if the bot were more aggressive, I wouldn't know how to react.
Title: Re: Positioning of camels
Post by Fritzlein on Jun 15th, 2011, 9:49pm
I like the idea of putting both of your horses away from his camel.  I am less persuaded by the position of your camel and elephant.  It feels awkward to me when your camel is on f7 and dog on g6.  By move 16 when you have your camel facing his, it feels like you have the advantage in piece alignment, and not just because you have a rabbit framed by then.
Title: Re: Positioning of camels
Post by Hippo on Jun 16th, 2011, 5:16am

on 06/15/11 at 17:20:35, Belteshazzar wrote:
I guess what I was really asking is, when Gold decentralizes its camel, how should Silver respond? Was my setup response here (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/opengamewin.cgi?client=1&gameid=187581&role=v&side=w) good? Sure, I won, but I kept getting the feeling that if the bot were more aggressive, I wouldn't know how to react.

I agree with the position of horses as well, I would consider west to be my attacking wing and at this time I would prefer cat under trap to rabbit (for the case I would try framing in the home trap). I would probably start with phant more west, but it is not that important.
Title: Re: Positioning of camels
Post by Belteshazzar on Jun 16th, 2011, 1:42pm
How about this (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/opengamewin.cgi?client=1&gameid=187642&role=v&side=b)?  I notice that when I place both horses on the wing opposite the enemy camel, I feel inclined to do a lot of rabbit pulling.  Excessive rabbit pulling was a habit I thought I had shaken, but with that setup I still feel inclined toward it.  Is that good or bad?
Title: Re: Positioning of camels
Post by Fritzlein on Jun 16th, 2011, 3:21pm

on 06/16/11 at 13:42:52, Belteshazzar wrote:
How about this (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/opengamewin.cgi?client=1&gameid=187642&role=v&side=b)?  I notice that when I place both horses on the wing opposite the enemy camel, I feel inclined to do a lot of rabbit pulling.  Excessive rabbit pulling was a habit I thought I had shaken, but with that setup I still feel inclined toward it.  Is that good or bad?

The setup looks fine, but on 5s you don't need to give up your camel hostage.  The camel is on the corner for defense, not for bait.  This is a good illustration of why it is better to study the middlegame than the opening.  The value of the setup disappears if you are unclear on why you set up that way.

As for rabbit pulling, it is usually good if you can keep control of both of your home traps.  The time not to pull rabbits is when you have lost (or might lose) control of one of your home traps, and/or when you have something more important to do with your time, such as save your camel from being taken hostage.
Title: Re: Positioning of camels
Post by Hippo on Jun 16th, 2011, 6:24pm

on 06/16/11 at 13:42:52, Belteshazzar wrote:
How about this (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/opengamewin.cgi?client=1&gameid=187642&role=v&side=b)?  I notice that when I place both horses on the wing opposite the enemy camel, I feel inclined to do a lot of rabbit pulling.  Excessive rabbit pulling was a habit I thought I had shaken, but with that setup I still feel inclined toward it.  Is that good or bad?

So now east was your strong side. But in that case I would try to attack east. You attacked west and therefore provoked development here. Letting your camel to be taken hostage could be good when you gain something valuable for it (material compensation or space advantage ... later needs development of weaker pieces on the same wing. You surely don't want your phant to guard the hostage forever).
Title: Re: Positioning of camels
Post by Belteshazzar on Jun 17th, 2011, 12:07am

on 06/16/11 at 18:24:53, Hippo wrote:
So now east was your strong side. But in that case I would try to attack east. You attacked west and therefore provoked development here. Letting your camel to be taken hostage could be good when you gain something valuable for it (material compensation or space advantage ... later needs development of weaker pieces on the same wing. You surely don't want your phant to guard the hostage forever).

I still don't quite understand what it means to develop pieces.  I know it has to do with positioning, but somehow talk about developing material leaves me feeling like there's a fundamental gap in my understanding of Arimaa.
Title: Re: Positioning of camels
Post by Hippo on Jun 17th, 2011, 7:30am

on 06/17/11 at 00:07:44, Belteshazzar wrote:
I still don't quite understand what it means to develop pieces.  I know it has to do with positioning, but somehow talk about developing material leaves me feeling like there's a fundamental gap in my understanding of Arimaa.

As I understand it pieces start on the home two ranks,  than they move a bit forward, not to be easily hostaged/captured ... this is development,  than if opponent allows the pieces move near the opponent trap using power of quantity ... this is called swarm.


Arimaa Forum » Powered by YaBB 1 Gold - SP 1.3.1!
YaBB © 2000-2003. All Rights Reserved.