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        Arimaa >> General Discussion >> Official Arimaa Theme
        
(Message started by: omar on Nov 10th, 2011, 10:21pm)
Title: Official Arimaa Theme
Post by omar on Nov 10th, 2011, 10:21pm
Even though Arimaa is not a game that needs a theme, I've decided to give it one now. The folks over on BGG seem to be fond of games that have a theme, so mostly this was to help please that crowd. I've been contemplating what a good theme would be for Arimaa for a few years now. Again and again I keep getting drawn to the theme of sumo wrestling. I think I've mentioned on the forum before that Arimaa feels to me like a wrestling match, while chess feels like a sword fight. But sumo wrestling is an individual sport, so to make it work for Arimaa I've made up a fantasy version where there are two teams of wrestlers. I've updated the Arimaa entry on BGG to reflect this.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4616/arimaa
Title: Re: Official Arimaa Theme
Post by 99of9 on Nov 10th, 2011, 11:54pm
Seriously?? My rating is about to plummet!

The description is now both misleading and confusing.  Even the opening sentence is false, nonsensical and ridiculous "Arimaa is an ancient, mythical sport played by teams of sumo wrestlers."

I can imagine a diligent board game enthusiast reading it and noting the fact that rabbits weigh 115 kg.  A straight reading gives that fact roughly the same importance as "c3, c6, f3 and f6 and are referred to as trap squares".

Fantasy themes may serve some purposes, but I strongly advise against using them as the primary description!
Title: Re: Official Arimaa Theme
Post by megajester on Nov 11th, 2011, 12:38am
I like the concept, but I too am not quite sure about its execution. So I would like to make a humble suggestion.

Instead of saying "Arimaa is...", how about if you just have it there as some sort of legend. Something like, "In a bygone age in the Far East, lost in the mists of time, was a game that enthralled one and all..." and then you present the legend.

At the end it could be "The magic of this ancient pasttime is recaptured in the game called Arimaa." Or summat like that.
Title: Re: Official Arimaa Theme
Post by Adanac on Nov 11th, 2011, 3:38pm

on 11/10/11 at 22:21:51, omar wrote:
Even though Arimaa is not a game that needs a theme, I've decided to give it one now. The folks over on BGG seem to be fond of games that have a theme, so mostly this was to help please that crowd. I've been contemplating what a good theme would be for Arimaa for a few years now. Again and again I keep getting drawn to the theme of sumo wrestling. I think I've mentioned on the forum before that Arimaa feels to me like a wrestling match, while chess feels like a sword fight. But sumo wrestling is an individual sport, so to make it work for Arimaa I've made up a fantasy version where there are two teams of wrestlers. I've updated the Arimaa entry on BGG to reflect this.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4616/arimaa


Is this now the official theme of Arimaa or is it just a story you’ve concocted to placate the Theme-Obsessed BGG crowd? If it’s the latter, you picked a good one.  There’s a real fetish for Japanese themes over there – throw a ninja or samurai into the introduction and your sales will skyrocket.  ;D Outside of that community, however, I’ve never met anyone in my life who was troubled by the lack of a theme in Checkers, Chess, Go, Backgammon, Bridge, etc. so I’d prefer if Arimaa didn’t have a theme for the general public.  I like it just the way it is.

If this is now the official theme, future versions of Arimaa might need new pieces for the Elephant & Camel.  I’m not 100% sure but ancient Sumo Wrestlers may never have seen/heard of those animals?  I’d assume the horse, dog, cat, rabbit would have been a common sight in ancient Japan, though.
Title: Re: Official Arimaa Theme
Post by Dolus on Nov 11th, 2011, 3:59pm
Any appetite for theme I have is filled well enough with the use of animals. It's not really a theme, but it's more of one than Go or Checkers. Much like Chess, the different pieces are somewhat representative of characters, a king, a queen, etc.

Cards too for that matter, representations of 4 different kings.

Of course, I don't crave for a theme as much as other people from BGG do.
Title: Re: Official Arimaa Theme
Post by Fritzlein on Nov 11th, 2011, 5:54pm
Yes, the sales pitch should definitely fit the audience.  I can't think of a single chess player who wouldn't be turned off by the sumo story.  They would universally get the first impression of a game that is not for serious study and play, i.e. they would think Arimaa is a game that doesn't have any of the things that makes them love chess.

On the other hand, on Board Game Geek chess is considered only the 238th best game ever invented, a mile behind insect-themed Hive at 106, so maybe it's worth a shot to focus on a pasted-on theme.
Title: Re: Official Arimaa Theme
Post by omar on Nov 12th, 2011, 12:13am
Well I can't please everyone. I'm sure the folks here don't really care for a theme. Like I said it's a pasted on theme for those who like games to have a theme.

For those who don't care for a theme, you can just ignore it. It doesn't change the game at all.
Title: Re: Official Arimaa Theme
Post by SpeedRazor on Nov 12th, 2011, 12:30am

on 11/11/11 at 00:38:47, megajester wrote:
I like the concept, but I too am not quite sure about its execution. So I would like to make a humble suggestion.

Instead of saying "Arimaa is...", how about if you just have it there as some sort of legend. Something like, "In a bygone age in the Far East, lost in the mists of time, was a game that enthralled one and all..." and then you present the legend.

At the end it could be "The magic of this ancient pasttime is recaptured in the game called Arimaa." Or summat like that.


Don't underestimate what MegaJester just wrote everybody.  

If Arimaa is to have a theme - (though I'm still not completely on board there) - then Omar hit a home-run with a Sumo Group-Warfare Fantasy model - (complete with Gold and Silver animal helms/headdresses!) - but I would think that the description might be tailored a little like Joel mentioned above.  Kind of an epic feel...  
Title: Re: Official Arimaa Theme
Post by omar on Nov 12th, 2011, 1:31am
I liked Joel's wording also. I tried to incorporate it. Although I didn't avoid using the word Arimaa until the end. Thanks for the suggestion Joel.
Title: Re: Official Arimaa Theme
Post by Fritzlein on Nov 12th, 2011, 4:24am

on 11/12/11 at 00:13:43, omar wrote:
Well I can't please everyone.

Yes, I get that.  Deciding to use the sumo story at Board Game Geek may be brilliant even if it wouldn't be brilliant to present it that way to a chess club.  By the same token, the story you tell to a chess club need not be the story you tell at an artificial intelligence symposium.  I'm not the best person to comment on what would work at BGG, since I don't think like the mainstream BGG member, but I am generally in favor of doing whatever works for the target audience.


Quote:
For those who don't care for a theme, you can just ignore it. It doesn't change the game at all.

Of course I'm going to ignore the theme and concentrate on the aspects of Arimaa that I love.  Whatever is written at BGG isn't going to change my enjoyment of the game.  But this thread isn't about me or about any established players of Arimaa.  The discussion is about how to present Arimaa to people who haven't tried it yet.  It's bad marketing to give a pitch that turns off the audience and then add, "but if you aren't interested in that, focus on something else."  So while I think the new story is worth a shot on BGG, I would be leery of using sumo as, say, the first description a newcomer sees on Arimaa.com.
Title: Re: Official Arimaa Theme
Post by megajester on Nov 12th, 2011, 2:06pm
Wow, I'm flattered!

I'm reminded of a book I read (I can't for the life of me remember which one) that said that a disproportionate number of chess players show a liking for sumo wrestling. If anything Arimaa would seem to display that similarity even more than chess.

Although I think something like this for Arimaa would probably be taking things too far ;D
http://thmb.inkfrog.com/thumbn/hotproductsllc/7492_1019M_SUMO_BLUE_6PC.jpg=600
Title: Re: Official Arimaa Theme
Post by omar on Nov 13th, 2011, 1:21am
Nice find Jeol. Sometimes I wonder if the Arimaa game sets had been release with the sumo theme and pieces which looked similar to this (but wearing the gold and silver animal shaped helmets), if Arimaa would have been a hit in the BGG community.

When we were play testing Arimaa we never even considered a theme. We just used chess pieces. It was only when I was writing up the final rules that I thought it might be easier to explain to people who are not familiar with chess if we used animal pieces. Also kids would be more attracted to animal pieces. So the animal theme for Arimaa was pasted on at the end. I sometimes wonder is I had just used pyramids of different heights for the pieces, what Arimaa would be like today. Would it be more popular, less popular or no difference. Would the community be opposed to adding an animal theme now if I thought it might help attract kids to the game.
Title: Re: Official Arimaa Theme
Post by clojure on Nov 13th, 2011, 4:34am
From functional perspective, a theme introduces often a vocabulary. An animal theme with distinct animal names is good in that it makes communication clear and fun. Also animals relate to moving. If there were only generic pyramids, it would feel too clinical to reference "4. [strongest] pyramid" or it would be hard to feel the association between struggling pyramids and what is happening in the game mechanics.

For example, I recently bought Tigris & Euphrates. It is mostly about putting square or circle colored pieces into place but after you are told they are areas (kingdoms when occupied) and leaders of particular domain, understanding the rules was much more enjoyable and definitely helped to memorize them.

I like the animal pieces because they have quite natural order of strength (not optimal but good enough), and it makes the game feel personal albeit might turn-off some abstract gamer.
Title: Re: Official Arimaa Theme
Post by rbarreira on Nov 13th, 2011, 8:05am

on 11/13/11 at 04:34:02, clojure wrote:
I like the animal pieces because they have quite natural order of strength (not optimal but good enough)


So you're a cat person? :P
Title: Re: Official Arimaa Theme
Post by Fritzlein on Nov 13th, 2011, 9:00am
It is interesting to speculate.  What if Arimaa had become popular to due an attractive theme rather than gaining currency only with programmers due to the Challenge and with a few hard-core abstract gamers due to its strategic richness?  Perhaps you would have seen Arimaa being played in coffee shops and being sold in Target stores.  Perhaps it would have been a money maker instead of an expensive hobby.  Perhaps it would have peaked in popularity in one year and faded after two, like most new games.  Perhaps there would not be a stable of strong bots for people to play, because programmers would never have taken it seriously.  Perhaps there would be no strategy book, because deep strategy would not have been a selling point.

It's hard to know or guess what marketing can do.  Some intrinsically very mediocre products have become huge commercial successes.  But I wouldn't spend too much time being disappointed by what Arimaa does have: a core community of die-hard fans that explore and appreciate its intrinsic merits.  Trax doesn't have that.  Octi doesn't have that.  Gipf doesn't have that.  Kensington (with its great marketing push and Omar Sharif endorsement) is universally forgotten. Indeed, the only other modern abstract strategy game that has a larger hard-core community is Othello.  Arimaa, despite its lack of commercial success so far, is in elite company.
Title: Re: Official Arimaa Theme
Post by clojure on Nov 13th, 2011, 12:07pm

on 11/13/11 at 08:05:20, rbarreira wrote:
So you're a cat person? :P


Hehe, no, not really. My personal preference does not enter it ;) But as you point out, the relative strength of the smaller animals are too close to be graspable without any thought; this is solved by the wooden Arimaa set where the pieces' size is visually clearly distinguishable from each other; (I wonder whatever happened to that project?). But in a flat 2d computer projection it leaves one a bit unsatisfied.
Title: Re: Official Arimaa Theme
Post by megajester on Nov 13th, 2011, 2:55pm
Maybe we could devise a system of abstract "silhouette" symbols.

For chess we have this:
http://www.cksinfo.com/clipart/entertainment/games/chess/chess-set-symbols-igor-k-01.png

(I'm not sure if they really are intuitive or if I'm just used to them...)

thenoviceoof came up with this (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/forum/cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=talk;action=display;num=1306285079;start=30#34), which is very cool, and I came up with this (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/forum/cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=talk;action=display;num=1297669968;start=), which some people liked and some didn't....
Title: Re: Official Arimaa Theme
Post by aaaa on Nov 13th, 2011, 4:36pm
megajester, have you seen this (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/fig/)?
Title: Re: Official Arimaa Theme
Post by chessandgo on Nov 13th, 2011, 7:38pm

on 11/13/11 at 16:36:10, aaaa wrote:
megajester, have you seen this (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/fig/)?


Yeah, I like the black-and-white figs Omar set up. My first impression was "huh", but very soon I found them amazing, better than actual gameroom boards.
Title: Re: Official Arimaa Theme
Post by megajester on Nov 14th, 2011, 12:17am

on 11/13/11 at 16:36:10, aaaa wrote:
megajester, have you seen this (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/fig/)?

No, I hadn't seen that. I do remember seeing similar silhouettes in Fritz's book though. I like them.

Maybe there's no demand for it, but personally I feel as if chess-like abstract symbols might make it easier to grasp the position at a glance than animal heads, albeit with different sizes. Each to his own I guess :)

Edit: I'm not proposing we replace the current pieces with abstract ones, I'm talking about having an additional option...
Title: Re: Official Arimaa Theme
Post by leo on Dec 9th, 2011, 4:40am
Sumô-arimaa is a fun story anyway ;D Still I prefer the animal theme. BTW ari means ant in Japanese.


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