Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register.
Jul 23rd, 2019, 7:55pm

Home Home Help Help Search Search Members Members Login Login Register Register
Arimaa Forum « Move 11 »


   Arimaa Forum
   Team Games
   2007 One vs TheMob
(Moderators: supersamu, RonWeasley)
   Move 11
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1 2 3  Reply Reply Notify of replies Notify of replies Send Topic Send Topic Print Print
   Author  Topic: Move 11  (Read 3011 times)
NIC1138
Forum Guru
*****




Arimaa player #65536

   
WWW

Gender: male
Posts: 149
Move 11
« on: Aug 15th, 2007, 9:35pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

Chessnadgo played 11w Eb5e Hc4s Md3s Ec5w. Retreated horse and camel.
IP Logged
NIC1138
Forum Guru
*****




Arimaa player #65536

   
WWW

Gender: male
Posts: 149
Re: Move 11
« Reply #1 on: Aug 15th, 2007, 9:42pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

Here is one move suggestion... 11b ed4w ec4w Hc3n md6e. The idea is to threaten the horse. I like moving the camel to threaten the other horse, but other idea would be to set up a horse frame, with 11b ed4w ec4w Hc3n dd8s perhaps.
IP Logged
Janzert
Forum Guru
*****



Arimaa player #247

   


Gender: male
Posts: 1014
Re: Move 11
« Reply #2 on: Aug 15th, 2007, 9:43pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify


11b ed4w ec4w Hc3n xxxx ?
 
Or does that leave the e to decentralized?
 
Janzert
IP Logged
mdk
Forum Guru
*****



Arimaa player #2309

   


Gender: male
Posts: 108
Re: Move 11
« Reply #3 on: Aug 15th, 2007, 10:27pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

How about 11b ed4s ed3e ee3w De2n?
IP Logged
UruramTururam
Forum Guru
*****




Arimaa player #2537

   
WWW

Gender: male
Posts: 319
Re: Move 11
« Reply #4 on: Aug 16th, 2007, 2:05am »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

I am afraid that moving the elephant two steps right makes it less mobile than it should be.
 
I'd suggest: 11b ed4w ec4n Hc3n md6e
  • Still threatening the horse
  • Limiting movement possibilities of the golden elephant
  • Switching our camel to the left wing
  • IP Logged

    Caffa et bucella per attactionem corporum venit ad stomachum meum.
    BGG Arimaa badges - get your own one!
    arimaa_master
    Forum Guru
    *****



    Arimaa player #2010

       


    Gender: male
    Posts: 358
    Re: Move 11
    « Reply #5 on: Aug 16th, 2007, 4:33am »
    Quote Quote Modify Modify

    on Aug 16th, 2007, 2:05am, UruramTururam wrote:
    I am afraid that moving the elephant two steps right makes it less mobile than it should be.
     
    I'd suggest: 11b ed4w ec4n Hc3n md6e
  • Still threatening the horse
  • Limiting movement possibilities of the golden elephant
  • Switching our camel to the left wing

  •  
     
    Very good suggestion - I didn´t even consider this move after looking about two minutes at the position, now is clearly my number 1.
     
     
    Now my preferences are:
     
     
    I)   11b ed4w ec4n Hc3n md6e
     
    II)  11b ed4w ec4w Hc3n md6e
     
    III) 11b ed4w ec4w Hc3n dd8s (new last step)
     
    IV)  11b hb6w rb7w cc7w md6n (completely new)
    « Last Edit: Aug 16th, 2007, 4:35am by arimaa_master » IP Logged
    Fritzlein
    Forum Guru
    *****



    Arimaa player #706

       
    Email

    Gender: male
    Posts: 5928
    Re: Move 11
    « Reply #6 on: Aug 16th, 2007, 8:48am »
    Quote Quote Modify Modify

    Wow, it's great to see the suggestions and discussion get started so quickly.  It fits my schedule to begin the voting at GMT 01:00 Tuesday, August 21 and end voting at GMT 11:00 Wednesday, August 22.  That will gain back 12 hours of reserve for the Mob.
     
    General thoughts about the position: by retreating on his last couple of moves, chessandgo has given up any credible EMH or EH attack, so the game has reverted to a dual-lone-elephant opening.  His advantage in a DLE is being closer to rabbit pull.  Our advantage is that his dog on b3 and horse on c3 are misplaced.
     
    I like the idea behind 11b ed4w ec4w Hc3n dd8s, because I want to threaten his horse, but 11w Eb5e Ec5e Ed5w md6s seems to leave us in trouble.
     
    The idea from 11b ed4w ec4n Hc3n xxxx of leaving our elephant more centralized is strategically sound, but I'm tactically afraid of 11w Eb5w hb6s hb5s Ea5e.  Trading our well-placed horse for chessandgo's misplaced horse seems to convert our small advantage into a small disadvantage, because after a horse trade his currently misplaced dog would suddenly be in perfect position.  Alternatively 11w hb6e Eb5n Eb6s rb7s seems to leave us no way to exploit the horse we pulled.  
     
    My suggestion along the lines NIC and Janzert were thinking, but with a different 4th step:
     
    11b ed4w ec4w Hc3n md6n
     
    When we were trying to stop the EH attack it made sense to activate our camel.  Now that there is no EH attack, our advanced camel is mostly a target for his lone elephant, so we retreat it.  Meanwhile our other three steps threaten to exploit his poorly placed dog and horse.
     
    I haven't worked out a lot of lines, but intuitively we are winning.  Our patience seems to be paying off.
     
    Summarizing the game so far from my perspective:
    1) We threatened to take a small lead in the DLE race, thus provoking chessandgo into a premature EH attack
    2) Our threats to chessandgo's exposed pieces forced his elephant out of its preferred spot between our traps.
    3) Chessandgo tried to retain H & M activity without conceding any disadvantage, but with his elephant decentralized and camel exposed, he couldn't find a good attacking continuation.  Our well-placed defensive camel subtly repelled his advances.
    4) After chessandgo's retreat the DLE race has been restored, but with chessandgo's horse and dog catywumpus, giving us a small but clear advantage.
     
    I expect the blood-and-guts style players are disappointed with the "boring" play so far, but it tickles me pink to accumulate advantages so small that, when the other player finally realizes he's at a disadvantage, he can't think of any mistake he made or any move on which he went wrong.  That's when you know you didn't out-calculate your opponent, you just made better choices positionally.
    « Last Edit: Aug 16th, 2007, 8:49am by Fritzlein » IP Logged

    The_Jeh
    Forum Guru
    *****



    Arimaa player #634

       


    Gender: male
    Posts: 460
    Re: Move 11
    « Reply #7 on: Aug 16th, 2007, 2:18pm »
    Quote Quote Modify Modify

    on Aug 16th, 2007, 8:48am, Fritzlein wrote:

    My suggestion along the lines NIC and Janzert were thinking, but with a different 4th step:
    11b ed4w ec4w Hc3n md6n

     
    Possible responses:
    12w Eb5e hb6s Hc4s xxxx (Db3s?)
     
    12w Eb5w hb6s hb5e Ea5e [Chessandgo's horse is moved to the east side on the following move, and it's generally not strong to have both horses on the same side.]
     
    12w Eb5e Hc4s Ec5s Db3s [Leads to a rabbit pull for us at cost of a decentralized elephant.]
     
    And after these moves there are more lines to examine. I think this move keeps an advantage for us, but we must be careful so that the game doesn't equalize.
     
    « Last Edit: Aug 16th, 2007, 4:41pm by The_Jeh » IP Logged
    Fritzlein
    Forum Guru
    *****



    Arimaa player #706

       
    Email

    Gender: male
    Posts: 5928
    Re: Move 11
    « Reply #8 on: Aug 16th, 2007, 4:29pm »
    Quote Quote Modify Modify

    on Aug 15th, 2007, 10:27pm, mdk wrote:
    How about 11b ed4s ed3e ee3w De2n?

    This is a somewhat sharp suggestion; compared to other lines it needs more calculation and less strategic judgment.  Can chessandgo afford to ignore the threat and pull a rabbit?  What if he flips our horse? What if he pulls our horse with two steps and retreats his dog with the other two?  I'd like to see you lobby for this move by giving some variations.  If you can refute chessandgo's racing responses, then this move could gain tempo by forcing him to defend.
    IP Logged

    99of9
    Forum Guru
    *****




    Gnobby's creator (player #314)

      toby_hudson  


    Gender: male
    Posts: 1412
    Re: Move 11
    « Reply #9 on: Aug 16th, 2007, 4:54pm »
    Quote Quote Modify Modify

    ed4w ec4w hb6w rb7w
     
    Once again I want to get a rabbit pull happening and prevent him from doing the same.
    IP Logged
    mdk
    Forum Guru
    *****



    Arimaa player #2309

       


    Gender: male
    Posts: 108
    Re: Move 11
    « Reply #10 on: Aug 16th, 2007, 6:13pm »
    Quote Quote Modify Modify

    on Aug 16th, 2007, 4:29pm, Fritzlein wrote:

    This is a somewhat sharp suggestion; compared to other lines it needs more calculation and less strategic judgment.  Can chessandgo afford to ignore the threat and pull a rabbit?  What if he flips our horse? What if he pulls our horse with two steps and retreats his dog with the other two?  I'd like to see you lobby for this move by giving some variations.  If you can refute chessandgo's racing responses, then this move could gain tempo by forcing him to defend.

     
    If I properly remember the analysis i did prior to suggesting this move chessandgo cannot pull the rabbit although i would have to spend some time in order to go through the possible lines of play. I'll try and work on this when I get back from visiting Princeton late Friday evening as I probably won't have a chance before then.
    « Last Edit: Aug 16th, 2007, 6:14pm by mdk » IP Logged
    jdb
    Forum Guru
    *****



    Arimaa player #214

       


    Gender: male
    Posts: 682
    Re: Move 11
    « Reply #11 on: Aug 16th, 2007, 7:41pm »
    Quote Quote Modify Modify

    on Aug 15th, 2007, 10:27pm, mdk wrote:
    How about 11b ed4s ed3e ee3w De2n?

     
    A) Pull the rabbit
    12w hb6e Eb5n Eb6s rb7s
    13b De3n ed3e De4n ee3n
     
    I dont think gold can safely pull the rabbit.
     
    B) Flip the dog
    12w Eb5e hb6s hb5s Ec5w
    13b De3n ed3e De4n ee3n
     
    This looks good for silver too.
     
    C) Retreat the dog and also do something else
    12w Md2e De3e Db3s Hc3w
     
    To me this looks OK for gold, but maybe there is still some possibilty for silver?
    IP Logged
    Fritzlein
    Forum Guru
    *****



    Arimaa player #706

       
    Email

    Gender: male
    Posts: 5928
    Re: Move 11
    « Reply #12 on: Aug 16th, 2007, 10:15pm »
    Quote Quote Modify Modify

    JDB mentioned to me in chat that he was looking at 11b hg6e hh6s hh5s hh4s, so I thought I would throw it into the mix for discussion here.
    IP Logged

    Fritzlein
    Forum Guru
    *****



    Arimaa player #706

       
    Email

    Gender: male
    Posts: 5928
    Re: Move 11
    « Reply #13 on: Aug 17th, 2007, 8:19am »
    Quote Quote Modify Modify

    on Aug 16th, 2007, 4:54pm, 99of9 wrote:
    ed4w ec4w hb6w rb7w
     
    Once again I want to get a rabbit pull happening and prevent him from doing the same.

    Are you worried that he might pull our camel instead of engaging the race to pull a rabbit first?  My instinct is that if he goes after a piece rather than a rabbit, ultimately our elephant will be forced to defend that rather than pulling something of its own, but maybe it works out tactically in our favor in this case.
    IP Logged

    99of9
    Forum Guru
    *****




    Gnobby's creator (player #314)

      toby_hudson  


    Gender: male
    Posts: 1412
    Re: Move 11
    « Reply #14 on: Aug 17th, 2007, 8:47am »
    Quote Quote Modify Modify

    No, I'm not really worried.  In the worst case we have to use our elephant, in the best case we don't.  It's not a major problem if we do, but I don't see it coming soon:
     
    11b ed4w ec4w hb6w rb7w
    12w Eb5e Ec5e Ed5w md6s
    12b dd8s dd7s md5e me5n
    13w Ec5e Ed5e Ee5w me6s
    13b ce7s me5e mf5n dd6n
    14w Ed5e Ee5e Ef5w mf6s
    14b hg6s mf5n mf6e hg5e
     
    One thing we have up our sleeve is that we are threatening the dog, so he can't settle for attacking our cat at any stage, because he doesn't want a cD trade.
     
    I'm happy to try to answer variations if you are worried about this.
    IP Logged
    Pages: 1 2 3  Reply Reply Notify of replies Notify of replies Send Topic Send Topic Print Print

    « Previous topic | Next topic »

    Arimaa Forum » Powered by YaBB 1 Gold - SP 1.3.1!
    YaBB © 2000-2003. All Rights Reserved.