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   2007 One vs TheMob
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   Move 15
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   Author  Topic: Move 15  (Read 2749 times)
Fritzlein
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Re: Move 15
« Reply #30 on: Oct 17th, 2007, 12:15am »
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on Oct 16th, 2007, 11:50pm, jdb wrote:
Thanks for the tree Fritz.

My pleasure.
 
Quote:

I think the position is about equal after
 
15b ed4w ec4e Dc3n ha6s  
.    16w Ee5w mc5n Ed5w Dc4s  

After  
15b ed4w ec4e Dc3n ha6s  
.    16w Ee5w mc5n Ed5w Dc4s  
.    .    16b hg6e hh6w Ra5n ed4s
How would you continue?  My first impression is that the gold elephant can't cut off our camel from both c3 and f6.  Actually our camel seems reasonably comfortable on c6.  If we end up winning a rabbit in exchange for getting our rabbit framed, that's about as much advantage as I see for us in any line.  But I haven't looked at it much.
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jdb
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Re: Move 15
« Reply #31 on: Oct 17th, 2007, 9:21am »
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on Oct 17th, 2007, 12:15am, Fritzlein wrote:

My pleasure.
 
After  
15b ed4w ec4e Dc3n ha6s  
.    16w Ee5w mc5n Ed5w Dc4s  
.    .    16b hg6e hh6w Ra5n ed4s
How would you continue?  My first impression is that the gold elephant can't cut off our camel from both c3 and f6.  Actually our camel seems reasonably comfortable on c6.  If we end up winning a rabbit in exchange for getting our rabbit framed, that's about as much advantage as I see for us in any line.  But I haven't looked at it much.

 
Thats pretty much what I saw.
 
 
In the other line after,
 
15b mc5s rb4w mc4w Dc3n  
.    16w Ee5w Ed5w Ec5w Ra2n  
.    .    16b Dc4n ed4w ha6e dd8s  
.    .    .    17w Dc5e Dd5e De5s De4s  
.    .    .    .    17b ec4n mb4e mc4e md4n
 
I think silver's position is better.
 
Also, the dd8s step on 16b might be used to go after the h5 rabbit instead.
 
But after
 
15b mc5s rb4w mc4w Dc3n  
.    16w Ee5w Ed5w Ec5w Ra2n  
.    .    16b Dc4n ed4w ha6e dd8s  
.    .    .    17w Dc5e Dd5s xxxx xxxx
 
How does silver save the camel?  Sad
 
15b mc5s rb4w mc4w Dc3n  
.    16w Ee5w Ed5w Ec5w Ra2n  
.    .    16b ha6e Dc4s mb4e ed4s  
 
I think the camel can get away, but I am not sure.
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 15
« Reply #32 on: Oct 17th, 2007, 11:28am »
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The blackout delayed us, but it's time to wrap this up.  Unless there are objections, we'll start the vote Thursday morning.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Move 15
« Reply #33 on: Oct 17th, 2007, 5:34pm »
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on Oct 17th, 2007, 9:21am, jdb wrote:
But after
 
15b mc5s rb4w mc4w Dc3n  
.    16w Ee5w Ed5w Ec5w Ra2n  
.    .    16b Dc4n ed4w ha6e dd8s  
.    .    .    17w Dc5e Dd5s xxxx xxxx
 
How does silver save the camel?  Sad

Wow, I didn't see how the dog on d4 blocks us.  I agree that we would have to do something else for 16b.
 
Quote:

15b mc5s rb4w mc4w Dc3n  
.    16w Ee5w Ed5w Ec5w Ra2n  
.    .    16b ha6e Dc4s mb4e ed4s  
 
I think the camel can get away, but I am not sure.

I think this works, and we also have the more tense option of 16b ed4s Dc4e mb4e mc4n.  I think that leaves us a positional advantage, but the position of our camel means we would want to check the line carefully before playing.
 
I'm going to vote for 15b ed4w ec4e Dc3n ha6s because it appears safer, but I think we could come out on top with 15b mc5s rb4w mc4w Dc3n too.  For a super-safe option I also have 15b ed4w rb4w ec4e Dc3n as a top move, since chessandgo can't afford to repeat, and I don't think deviating necessarily benefits him.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Move 15
« Reply #34 on: Oct 18th, 2007, 8:39am »
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In the move 15 election it looks like there is an illegal move among the choices: mc5s ha6s mc4w Dc3n (h->a5, m pull D).  Turning it into a legal move with mc4n makes it just like ed4w ec4e Dc3n ha6s (h->a5, e pull D).  One possible remedy is leaving the illegal move in there and voting anyway.  Since the serious options are all available, we can just discard mc5s ha6s mc4w Dc3n from the rankings wherever it ends up.
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 15
« Reply #35 on: Oct 18th, 2007, 9:06am »
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Oops!  I meant to say mc5s mc4n Dc3n ha6s.  This move didn't get much discussion, but was one of Fritzlein's early strawmen.  It's indeed just like the one pulling the dog with the e, so just ignore the illegal move.
« Last Edit: Oct 18th, 2007, 9:08am by RonWeasley » IP Logged
Fritzlein
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Re: Move 15
« Reply #36 on: Oct 18th, 2007, 10:16am »
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If the unplayble move wins, we're in trouble, because Weasley is a Gryffindor, so his sense of honor will compel him to submit the winning move over and over until we run out of time.  It takes a hero to attempt the impossible...
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 15
« Reply #37 on: Oct 19th, 2007, 3:15pm »
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TheMob chooses ed4w ec4e Dc3n ha6s.
 
Silver definitely has the more aggressive look.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Move 15
« Reply #38 on: Oct 19th, 2007, 5:42pm »
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For the record
    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .   1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9.
1. ed4w ec4e Dc3n ha6s (h->a5, e pull D)    .    .    -  6  6  7  8  7  7  9  6
2. mc5s rb4w mc4w Dc3n (r->a4, m pull D)    .    .    3  -  6  7  8  6  7  8  5
3. ed4w rb4w ec4e Dc3n (r->a4, e pull D)    .    .    3  2  -  7  8  8  9  8  5
4. ed4w ha6s ha5s ha4s (e->c4, h->a3)  .    .    .    2  1  1  -  4  3  5  5  3
5. ed4s ha6s ha5s ha4s (e->d3, h->a3)  .    .    .    1  0  1  1  -  4  4  5  3
6. ed4w rb4w ha6e dd8s (e->c4, r->a4, h->a5, d->d7)   2  3  2  3  3  -  4  5  2
7. ed4w hg6e hh6w Rh5n (e->c4, pull R) .    .    .    2  1  0  0  1  3  -  5  3
8. ed4w rb4w ec4w Dc3n (r->a4, e pull D, e->b4)  .    0  0  0  0  0  0  0  -  1
9. mc5s ha6s mc4w Dc3n (h->a5, m pull D)    .    .    0  0  0  0  0  1  0  1  -

Fortunately the illegal move and the typo move came in tied for last.  By my intuitive tiebreak I note that one voter actually preferred the illegal move to one of the top seven choices, which can't be said of the typo move, so the typo move should actually be dead last, lower than the illegal move.
 
This result was not as hair-raising as some, but 6-3 still shows a serious disagreement in style.  Also the move I favored in my first tree ended up fourth, both on my ballot and overall, so clearly the long discussion period changed some minds and influenced the result.  I like the way we are "thinking" as a group.
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