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Arimaa Forum Move 28


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   Move 28
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   Author  Topic: Move 28  (Read 2460 times)
Ice
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Re: Move 28
« Reply #15 on: Mar 18th, 2008, 11:32pm »
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I might as well put my 2 cents in. btw this is a great idea to have a forum discussion on moves. I love it. I haven't played in about a year so keep in mind that all of my analysis probably has a lot of rust to it.  Smiley
 
My feeling is that soon after the rabbit frame we would have to give it up or let chessandgo get an EH on c6.
 
Personally if I was chessandgo I would bring EH up to c6 as quickly as I could if our E was stuck in the rabbit frame. If he can get the silver horse to c6 and starts advancing gold rabbits, that portion of the board might be in trouble.  
 
That being said moving ee3w costs us one step and delays the advance on c6 by the dog by at least 2 moves so starting out with ee3w that at least makes chessandgo take the time to make the frame might be worth it.  
 
Just out of curiousity what happens if we play with moving our horse up towards the f3 trap with the dog?
 
 
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arimaa_master
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Re: Move 28
« Reply #16 on: Mar 19th, 2008, 8:03am »
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My feeling about position is that if we keep our rabbit (ee3w) and fill in the c3 trap (hd6w dd7s) - so gold has nothing to achieve and we our safe - so we have time to start to play d+c+r attack at f3 trap (ce7s).
 
 
So my proposal is: 28b ee3w hd6w dd7s ce7s
 
(But I am not saying that already proposed moves is worse or better in general - that is beyond my horizon Smiley).
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UruramTururam
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Re: Move 28
« Reply #17 on: Mar 19th, 2008, 5:55pm »
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Another idea:
 
28b: ee3s ee2e Cg2n ef2e
 
If C&G decides to trap our rabbit then he has only 2 more steps. If he attacks our h, the cat may be trapped in f3 if he secures f3 we may try to push the cat towards f6...  
But somehow I don't like the resulting position with our elephant so decentralized.
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 28
« Reply #18 on: Mar 21st, 2008, 6:44am »
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Let's plan on voting starting Monday morning.
 
I still like 28b ee3w hd6w hc6w df7s.  An e-d attack against f3 is supported by our h around c6 to defend against a counter attack by gold's H.  If gold tries E-H against c6, we advance a rabbit through f3 for a goal threat that can't be ignored.
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Re: Move 28
« Reply #19 on: Mar 24th, 2008, 7:50am »
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One of the candidate moves
 
ee3w hd6w hc6w ee2e (e->c3, h->b6) should read
 
ee3s hd6w hc6w ee2e (e->c2, h->b6).
 
Sorry for the confusion.
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Re: Move 28
« Reply #20 on: Mar 24th, 2008, 10:14am »
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on Mar 24th, 2008, 7:50am, RonWeasley wrote:
One of the candidate moves
 
ee3w hd6w hc6w ee2e (e->c3, h->b6) should read
 
ee3s hd6w hc6w ee2e (e->c2, h->b6).
 
Sorry for the confusion.

 
Do you mean ee3s hd6w hc6w ee2e (e->f2, h->b6)?
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Re: Move 28
« Reply #21 on: Mar 24th, 2008, 10:31am »
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on Mar 24th, 2008, 10:14am, Fritzlein wrote:

 
Do you mean ee3s hd6w hc6w ee2e (e->f2, h->b6)?

 
 
Yesh (hic!).
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UruramTururam
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Re: Move 28
« Reply #22 on: Mar 25th, 2008, 9:18am »
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Uffff... It was hard to choose the order this time.  Shocked
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Re: Move 28
« Reply #23 on: Mar 25th, 2008, 9:55am »
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It is especially hard because we don't even know what the top two contenders are.  Sometimes one can assume that one of two moves is surely going to win, so the only thing that really matters in a ballot is the relative order of those two.  Other votes will at most affect the order of the losers.  But this time, since I didn't know which choices were going to be near the top, it seemed like every position in the ranking could be meaningful.
 
Of course, that said, I just voted my gut feeling anyway...
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Re: Move 28
« Reply #24 on: Mar 25th, 2008, 1:39pm »
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What an unruly mob!  We have a tie.
 
ee3w hd6w hc6w df7s
 
and
 
df7s df6s df5s df4s
 
I am not at the right computer to start the run-off, so expect the run-off to begin Wednesday morning and end Thursday morning.  The forum is open for all who wish to lobby for either move.  If the run-off results in a tie, I will flip a galleon (if I can get Harry to lend me one).
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Re: Move 28
« Reply #25 on: Mar 25th, 2008, 3:04pm »
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Wow, before the beatpath tiebreaker was applied, ee3w df7s df6s df5e was in a circular three-way tie with the other top two options.  And not only was there a three-way tie, but also for no pair of moves was the voting unanimous.  There are no zeros in the preference matrix.  That hasn't happened since move 19 when there were only four choices on the ballot.  There is nothing the unruly Mob agrees on, not even that the "best" proposal is better than the "worst" proposal.  I think a coin flip is entirely appropriate to decide the election and save reserve time.
 
I'm not sure I like having a two-way runoff.  If we narrow it to two options, then saving the rabbit should beat the dog charge since it won 5-4 in the first election.  As long as we are going to burn the reserve necessary to have a runoff, I would actually prefer it to be a three-way runoff, for fear that we will now chose a move that was beaten in the first round by a move that got left off the second ballot.
 
One might argue that a three-way runoff will just result in another circular preference, but it won't necessarily.  People now have time to change their minds and/or to lobby with renewed vigor.  Most importantly, people who didn't vote the first time can jump in and alter the outcome.  Note that the preference of any ONE additional voter could have decided the outcome in the first round, so greater participation is in itself quite likely to clear up the mess.  But of course I bow to the Mob Coordinator's decision if he wants a two-way runoff in preference to a coin flip or a three-way runoff.
 

    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .  1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8.
1. ee3w hd6w hc6w df7s (e->d3, h->b6, d->f6)     .   -  5  4  6  7  6  7  8
2. df7s df6s df5s df4s (d->f3)    .    .    .    .   4  -  6  5  6  6  7  6
3. ee3w df7s df6s df5e (e->c3, d->g5)  .    .    .   5  3  -  5  5  5  7  6
4. ee3w hd6w hc6w dd7s (e->d3, h->b6, d->d6)     .   2  4  4  -  6  7  7  7
5. ee3w hd6w hc6w ra8s (e->d3, h->b6, r->a7)     .   2  4  4  2  -  6  6  6
6. ee3w hd6w dd7s ce7s (e->d3, h->c6, d->d6, c->e6)  2  3  4  1  3  -  6  7
7. ee3s ee2e Cg2n ef2e (e->g2, C->g3)  .    .    .   2  2  1  2  3  3  -  5
8. ee3w hd6w hc6w ee2e (e->f2, h->b6)  .    .    .   1  3  2  2  3  2  3  -
« Last Edit: Mar 25th, 2008, 3:29pm by Fritzlein » IP Logged

UruramTururam
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Re: Move 28
« Reply #26 on: Mar 25th, 2008, 5:17pm »
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I'd opt to choose the first move because it won the direct competition with the second one, but I think we should let Ron decide.
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Re: Move 28
« Reply #27 on: Mar 25th, 2008, 5:42pm »
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on Mar 25th, 2008, 5:17pm, UruramTururam wrote:
I'd opt to choose the first move because it won the direct competition with the second one, but I think we should let Ron decide.

Also using the dumb tiebreaker of summing all the numbers in the row gives the first option a slight win, so it wouldn't be too upsetting if Ron made an executive decision in its favor, in spite of the "Mob Rules" not specifying any such thing.  (Can there be rules to a Mob, or only rule by a Mob?)
 
I guess my main point was that if we have a revote, we might as well include the top three.  It doesn't take any more time off our clock and it gives all the top options a chance.  And now that I think about it, with our reserve fully replenished, a re-vote seems like a much better option than an executive decision.  This is not a time scramble situation.  Let's let the Mob have its say even if it takes some time to figure out what it is saying.
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Re: Move 28
« Reply #28 on: Mar 25th, 2008, 11:06pm »
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Definitely a revote.  Of the top 2 moves, I have changed my mind on which I like best.
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 28
« Reply #29 on: Mar 26th, 2008, 6:44am »
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Wow, I didn't notice we were having a three-way.  That's really humiliating to somebody.
 
Anyway, I just looked at the result rankings and saw a tie.  We will run-off with the top three.
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