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Arimaa Forum Move 37


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   Author  Topic: Move 37  (Read 3760 times)
mistre
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Move 37
« on: Aug 6th, 2008, 9:10am »
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And chessandgo responds quickly with 37w Dd4e De4e Rc1n Rd3n.  There will be no rest for the mob this move!
 
Surprisingly, we had that move in our tree already, so we are ahead of the game this time...
 
.    37w Dd4e De4e Rc1n Rd3n
.    .    37b ef2n Df4n ef3n dc4n
.    .    .    38w Eb3e hb2n Ec3n hb3e hc3x
.    .    .    .    38b Df5n Df6x ef4n ef5s dc5n
.    .    .    38w Re3n Re4n Df5e Da3n
.    .    .    .    38b ef4s ef3s rg4w rf4w  
 
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arimaa_master
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Re: Move 37
« Reply #1 on: Aug 6th, 2008, 10:27am »
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37b dg3w Re3n df3w de3w seems playable for us too
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UruramTururam
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Re: Move 37
« Reply #2 on: Aug 7th, 2008, 2:50am »
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on Aug 6th, 2008, 10:27am, arimaa_master wrote:

.    37w Dd4e De4e Rc1n Rd3n
.    .    37b ef2n Df4n ef3n dc4n

 
Or maybe
.    .    37b ef2n Df4n ef3n rd5e ?
« Last Edit: Aug 7th, 2008, 2:52am by UruramTururam » IP Logged

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Re: Move 37
« Reply #3 on: Aug 7th, 2008, 7:00am »
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37b Rd4s dc4e Rd3w dd4s
 
The dog can't be captured because of the d5 rabbit's discovered goal threat.
If gold moves the c3 rabbit north, silver can flip the e3 rabbit onto the trap. I am not sure if gold can maintain the horse hostage. Maybe there is still a way...
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Re: Move 37
« Reply #4 on: Aug 7th, 2008, 11:20am »
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on Aug 7th, 2008, 7:00am, jdb wrote:
37b Rd4s dc4e Rd3w dd4s
 
The dog can't be captured because of the d5 rabbit's discovered goal threat.
If gold moves the c3 rabbit north, silver can flip the e3 rabbit onto the trap. I am not sure if gold can maintain the horse hostage. Maybe there is still a way...

 
This move catches my attention. Some possible lines:
 
37s Rd4s dc4e Rd3w dd4s
. 38g Rc2e Rc3n Eb3e Ec3s
. .  38s rb5s rb4s Ra2s Hb2w
. 38g Hf1w He1w Hd1n Rc3n
. . 38s ef2w Re3n ee2n dc3n
« Last Edit: Aug 7th, 2008, 11:22am by The_Jeh » IP Logged
UruramTururam
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Re: Move 37
« Reply #5 on: Aug 7th, 2008, 1:53pm »
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37b Rd4s dc4e Rd3w dd4s
 
Hmmm... This leaves a lot of freedom to the golden dog. It may attack and disrupt our rear lines.
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Re: Move 37
« Reply #6 on: Aug 8th, 2008, 5:17am »
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on Aug 7th, 2008, 11:20am, The_Jeh wrote:

 
This move catches my attention. Some possible lines:
 
37s Rd4s dc4e Rd3w dd4s
.  38g Rc2e Rc3n Eb3e Ec3s
. . 38s rb5s rb4s Ra2s Hb2w
. 38g Hf1w He1w Hd1n Rc3n
. . 38s ef2w Re3n ee2n dc3n

 
37s Rd4s dc4e Rd3w dd4s
38g Rc2e Rc3n Eb3e Ec3s
38s Re3n dd3e rd5s rd4s
 
The threat is
39s ef2n ef3s Df4s Df3x rg4w
 
So it looks like on 38g, gold needs to dislodge the dog from d3.
38g Rc3n Eb3e dd3s Ec3e
but this looks pretty rough for gold.
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warren
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Tree
« Reply #7 on: Aug 10th, 2008, 6:45pm »
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Tree so far:
37b ef2n Df4n ef3n dc4n (F on move 36)
.    38w Eb3e hb2n Ec3n hb3e hc3x
.    .    38b Df5n Df6x ef4n ef5s dc5n
.    38w Re3n Re4n Df5e Da3n
.    .    38b ef4s ef3s rg4w rf4w  
 
37b Rd4s dc4e Rd3w dd4s (jdb)
.    38g Rc2e Rc3n Eb3e Ec3s (jeh)
.    .    38s rb5s rb4s Ra2s Hb2w
.    .    38s Re3n dd3e rd5s rd4s (jdb)
.    .    .    38g Rc3n Eb3e dd3s Ec3e
.    38g Hf1w He1w Hd1n Rc3n (jeh)
.    .    38s ef2w Re3n ee2n dc3n
 
37b dg3w Re3n df3w de3w (AM)
.    38w Hf1w He1w Hd1n Ch3w (W)
.    .    38b ef2w dc4s dc3n Rc2n
.    .    .    39w Cg3w rg4s Cf3w rg3w rf3x
.    .    .    .    39b ce7s ce6s ce5n Re4n
.    .    .    .    .    40w Da3n Da4e rb5w Db4n
.    .    .    .    .    .    40b Hd2s ee2w cc7e cd7s
.    38w Ch3w Eb3e dc4n Ec3n (W)
.    .    38b Rc2n hb2e hc2w hb2n
.    .    .    39w Hf1w He1w Hd1n Hd2w
.    .    .    .    39b ef2w ee2w ed2e Hc2e
.    .    .    .    .    40w Ra2e Rb2e dd3e Hd2n
.    .    .    .    .    .    40b Re4n de3n ee2n hb3n
 
37b ef2n Df4n ef3n rd5e (UT)
 
37b ef2n Df4n ef3n rb5e (RW)
« Last Edit: Aug 11th, 2008, 6:23am by warren » IP Logged
99of9
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Re: Move 37
« Reply #8 on: Aug 11th, 2008, 1:55am »
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on Jul 31st, 2008, 12:09pm, RonWeasley wrote:
I will resume moderatorship on Aug. 11.

After my unspectacular stint as moderator, welcome back.
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Re: Move 37
« Reply #9 on: Aug 11th, 2008, 5:42am »
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I'm back!  Thanx, 99of9.
 
I looked at 37b ef2n Df4n ef3n rb5e.
 
The last rabbit move allows 38b rc5s to delay the horse capture after the dog exchange.  That lets silver take control of f3 and try to push a rabbit through.  Playable?  Not sure.
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Re: Move 37
« Reply #10 on: Aug 11th, 2008, 6:21am »
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on Aug 6th, 2008, 10:27am, arimaa_master wrote:
37b dg3w Re3n df3w de3w seems playable for us too

 
I like AM's suggestion of 37b dg3w Re3n df3w de3w a lot. It leaves us with only a rabbit threatened at the f3 trap, so we could abandon the f3 trap, lose the g4 rabbit and still be up a cat. The horse hostage is still annoying, but without the f3 trap at issue the hostage seems manageable. Pushing his c2 rabbit to c3 is a nice tactic in many resulting lines.
 
Some possible lines:
37b dg3w Re3n df3w de3w (AM)
.    38w Hf1w He1w Hd1n Ch3w (W)
.    .    38b ef2w dc4s dc3n Rc2n
.    .    .    39w Cg3w rg4s Cf3w rg3w rf3x
.    .    .    .    39b ce7s ce6s ce5n Re4n
.    .    .    .    .    40w Da3n Da4e rb5w Db4n
.    .    .    .    .    .    40b Hd2s ee2w cc7e cd7s
.    38w Ch3w Eb3e dc4n Ec3n (W)
.    .    38b Rc2n hb2e hc2w hb2n
.    .    .    39w Hf1w He1w Hd1n Hd2w
.    .    .    .    39b ef2w ee2w ed2e Hc2e
.    .    .    .    .    40w Ra2e Rb2e dd3e Hd2n
.    .    .    .    .    .    40b Re4n de3n ee2n hb3n
 
My second favorite move is currently 37b Rd4s dc4e Rd3w dd4s (jdb).
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Re: Move 37
« Reply #11 on: Aug 11th, 2008, 2:47pm »
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I did some looking at the following two moves.
 
37b dg3w Re3n df3w de3w
 
This move's goal seems to be to send the game into a less tactical position. Silver has no immediate threat to goal due to the distribution of its pieces. However silver only stand to lose a rabbit. So if there is a quiet plan that leads to a win, then this is a good choice. On the down side, I couldn't find a decent plan. Hopefully someone else can?
 
37b Rd4s dc4e Rd3w dd4s
 
This move steers the game into a very sharp position. Silver has goal threats because there are multiple heavy pieces near both enemy traps. However, silver also stands to lose alot of material if the goal attack does not work out. Gold is under alot of pressure and one false step could be decisive.
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warren
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Re: Move 37
« Reply #12 on: Aug 11th, 2008, 3:57pm »
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on Aug 7th, 2008, 11:20am, The_Jeh wrote:

 
This move catches my attention. Some possible lines:
 
37s Rd4s dc4e Rd3w dd4s
.  38g Rc2e Rc3n Eb3e Ec3s
.  .   38s rb5s rb4s Ra2s Hb2w
.  38g Hf1w He1w Hd1n Rc3n
.  .   38s ef2w Re3n ee2n dc3n

The "dc3n" in the second 38s is not a legal move. Do you mean "dd3n"?
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Re: Move 37
« Reply #13 on: Aug 11th, 2008, 5:13pm »
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on Aug 11th, 2008, 2:47pm, jdb wrote:

37b Rd4s dc4e Rd3w dd4s
 
This move steers the game into a very sharp position. Silver has goal threats because there are multiple heavy pieces near both enemy traps. However, silver also stands to lose alot of material if the goal attack does not work out. Gold is under alot of pressure and one false step could be decisive.

What about the response of 38g Da3n Da4e Db4e Dc4e?  That seems to stop our goal threat in its tracks, and we're going to eventually lose the trap control fight around c3, right?  So it seems we then have to continue with 38s ef2n Df4n ef3n dd3s, which is similar to going after his eastern dog in the first place, except with a loss of time for us.
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Re: Move 37
« Reply #14 on: Aug 11th, 2008, 6:02pm »
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on Aug 11th, 2008, 6:21am, warren wrote:
I like AM's suggestion of 37b dg3w Re3n df3w de3w a lot. It leaves us with only a rabbit threatened at the f3 trap, so we could abandon the f3 trap, lose the g4 rabbit and still be up a cat. The horse hostage is still annoying, but without the f3 trap at issue the hostage seems manageable. Pushing his c2 rabbit to c3 is a nice tactic in many resulting lines.

This is a very interesting move.  The resulting position is very strategic.  Gold has essentially no hope of regaining control of the c3 trap with just his ED against our HDD.  On the other hand, what can our elephant do around f3 without the dog?  Instead of having a trade and a fluid position, as after my suggested move, we have a huge mosh which is difficult to evaluate.
 
I'm a little afraid because if his horse goes east and our elephant follows, then not only do we lose a rabbit in c3, we concede that his dog is the strongest piece in the east.  What threat to we have to stop him from eventually generating an unstoppable goal threat in the east?  Our own goal threat in the center?
 
Quote:

37b dg3w Re3n df3w de3w (AM)
. 38w Hf1w He1w Hd1n Ch3w (W)
. . 38b ef2w dc4s dc3n Rc2n
. . . 39w Cg3w rg4s Cf3w rg3w rf3x
. . . . 39b ce7s ce6s ce5n Re4n
. . . . . 40w Da3n Da4e rb5w Db4n
. . . . . . 40b Hd2s ee2w cc7e cd7s

 
That's a nice line, with an excellent 38s, but it seems it rely on Gold to walk right into total paralysis with 38g.  Some other options would include
38g Hf1w Ch3w Da3n Da4e
38g Hf1w Rg1n Rh1n Rg2n
38g Hf1w Hf2w Ch3w Rh1n
 
I'm not dissing the move by any means.  There is a lot to be said for breaking off a capture race that we were going to lose, and also for neutralizing his elephant on the edge of the board.  But the position is very unclear to me, unlike the position after
 
37b ef2n Df4n ef3n dc4n
.    38w Eb3e hb2n Ec3n hb3e hc3x
.    .    38b Df5n Df6x ef4n ef5s dc5n,
 
which I can comfortably say is somewhat in our favor.
 
I wish I had more time for analysis tonight, because arimaa_master's move definitely deserves a deeper look.
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