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Team Games >> 2007 One vs TheMob >> Move 3
(Message started by: Fritzlein on Apr 27th, 2007, 8:13am)

Title: Move 3
Post by Fritzlein on Apr 27th, 2007, 8:13am
Who wants to place bets on 3b?  Will chessandgo play E->d7, H->b6?  Or follow his current postal against 99of9 with E->d6, H->b6, D->b7?  Or something completely different?

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by The_Jeh on Apr 27th, 2007, 3:51pm
I'm confused. Why would he work toward a dog on b7?  Do you mean H->b3 D->b2?

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by Fritzlein on Apr 27th, 2007, 5:04pm
Ooooops.  Thanks for the correction.  Let me try again.

Will chessandgo play E->d7, H->b3?  Or follow his current postal against 99of9 with E->d6, H->b3, D->b2?  Or something completely different?


Title: Re: Move 3
Post by The_Jeh on Apr 27th, 2007, 11:26pm
Perhaps he will first play 3w Ee5e Ef5e Eg5w hg6s.  After he pulls our horse, we will be obliged to rescue it with 3b ed4e ee4e ef4e hg5n.  At that point, his elephant will be closer to the c6 trap than ours, and he can then launch an HE attack with 4w Ef5w Ee5w Ed5n Hb2n.

If we move our elephant to c4 to stop his b3 horse from advancing, he can just destroy our cat on c7.  I guess moving hb7s would work.  However, he could start pulling either our dd8, cc7, or even me7 south, and a rescue by our elephant could leave him attacking the f6 trap again.

I think we would come out on top, so there is little threat of him actually playing this, but I just thought I'd put such a move out there.

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by jdb on Apr 28th, 2007, 8:13am
Chessandgo has played
3w De1n Ee5w Ed5n Hb2n

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by Fritzlein on Apr 28th, 2007, 3:48pm
Some initial thoughts, although I haven't looked at it closely yet:

3b hb7s cc7w dd8s dd7w
Looks very solid defensively.  I don't think chessandgo can get a central rabbit pull, nor a piece pull with our elephant still lurking in the center.  This move sort of admits, however, that we should have started with dogs behind both traps.

3b hb7s ed4s ed3e Md2n
I'm a defensive player by nature, but this aggressive move has to be considered.  I don't think chessandgo can afford to ignore our attack on his camel while advancing against our c6 trap.  On the other hand, do we like the position after he frees his camel?

3b hb7s ed4n dd8s ce8w
This boxes chessandgo in pretty well.  If he responds by advancing H->b5, D->b3, we have a potential resource in 4b ed5w hb6w cc7w dd7w, threatening to get his horse in trouble, while protecting our a7 rabbit.  On the other hand, moving our elephant back is sort of counting on him to make something happen, since we are out of range to make threats.

I'm sure there are additional plausible moves.  At this point I think it helps as much to put extra suggestions on the table as it does to get deep specific lines.  There are lots of possibilities, so we may be choosing an attitude as much as a move.

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by jdb on Apr 28th, 2007, 7:15pm
I would favour a move that positions our elephant between gold's home traps. The rabbit on d1 is a possible weakness. Chessandgo likes to keep his camel in the centre, so placing our elephant where his camel wants to be is a good idea too.

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by NIC1138 on Apr 28th, 2007, 7:27pm
Since out phant is forward, I think we can afford bringing some stones to the front... (of course, solving the threat at c6 too. I donīt ther eis anything to win by wasting the kitty. :) )

I tought something like 3w hb7s me7s dd8s dd7e...

And instead os using the horse or the elephant, another way to secure the c6 is dd8s rc8e... Perhaps 3b dd8s rc8e me7s df7w. How far could he take the camel?

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by The_Jeh on Apr 29th, 2007, 1:10am
Maybe take Fritzlein's third suggestion, but change it slightly to 3b hb7s ed4s dd8s ce8w.   If Chessandgo moves H->b5, we just move e->c5, seizing the horse.  If not, we move ed3n Md2n Md3e ed4s, opening up a wide variety of pulls on the east side that are not completely reversible.  

If he attempts to blockade our elephant with a move involving E->d4, we either sneak back with e->d5, which puts us in a wonderfully balanced position, or else we are given the chance to bully an e3 or e4 piece.

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by 99of9 on Apr 29th, 2007, 5:33am
An aggressive EH option:
hb7s dd8s hg6s hg6s

A threat on his exposed rabbit/camel:
hb7s ed4s ra7e rh7w

I reiterate my request that the vote includes all options considered.  We can just vote down the silly ones.  I don't think there'll be hundreds...

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by RonWeasley on Apr 30th, 2007, 12:42pm
I'm leaning toward 3b hb7s ed4s ed3e Md2n.

The h on b6 keeps the b3 H from going to b6.  Gold must use two steps to safen the M, and I think he has to do this or else we drive the M into the center.  He can't do much to us in his remaining two steps that we can't protect in only two steps.  So that gives us two free steps on our next move.  The effect is a two step gain in tempo as long as we can maintain some initiative.  This effectively cancels gold's first move advantage.

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by NIC1138 on Apr 30th, 2007, 3:16pm

on 04/29/07 at 05:33:26, 99of9 wrote:
An aggressive EH option:
hb7s dd8s hg6s hg6s

Is this correct??

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by 99of9 on Apr 30th, 2007, 5:20pm

on 04/30/07 at 15:16:55, NIC1138 wrote:
Is this correct??

Oh, sorry, it should have been:
hb7s dd8s hg6s hg5s

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by arimaa_master on May 1st, 2007, 3:43pm

on 04/29/07 at 01:10:08, The_Jeh wrote:
Maybe take Fritzlein's third suggestion, but change it slightly to 3b hb7s ed4s dd8s ce8w.   If Chessandgo moves H->b5, we just move e->c5, seizing the horse.  If not, we move ed3n Md2n Md3e ed4s, opening up a wide variety of pulls on the east side that are not completely reversible.  

If he attempts to blockade our elephant with a move involving E->d4, we either sneak back with e->d5, which puts us in a wonderfully balanced position, or else we are given the chance to bully an e3 or e4 piece.


I fully agree with your suggested move (I invented it too, but you were first to write about it :) - I am always trying to suggest move like it is my move in my postal game and then check the forum if it is already listed or not (and consider other suggested moves at forum too, of course :)).

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by 99of9 on May 2nd, 2007, 8:25am

on 05/01/07 at 15:43:39, arimaa_master wrote:
I fully agree with your suggested move.

What would you guys both do if he then flipped the dog?

I think we would need to bring the elephant back one, suggesting that we wasted a step.

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by jdb on May 2nd, 2007, 8:47am

Quote:
I'm leaning toward 3b hb7s ed4s ed3e Md2n.


I think this is a very good choice. It takes the initative away from Gold.

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by NIC1138 on May 2nd, 2007, 10:42am

on 04/29/07 at 01:10:08, The_Jeh wrote:
Maybe take Fritzlein's third suggestion, but change it slightly to 3b hb7s ed4s dd8s ce8w.
Why moving the cat?... ???

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by RonWeasley on May 2nd, 2007, 11:24am
Not much discussion here.  Are we ready to vote?

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by NIC1138 on May 2nd, 2007, 1:13pm

on 05/02/07 at 11:24:30, RonWeasley wrote:
Not much discussion here.  Are we ready to vote?
Are we going to create some kind of restriction of candidate moves per player, or let it open as 99o9 sugests?... (As an AI enthusiast, I would like to collect a big database of moves and relative avaliations given by many players! =)  )

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by Fritzlein on May 2nd, 2007, 2:05pm

on 05/02/07 at 11:24:30, RonWeasley wrote:
Not much discussion here.  Are we ready to vote?

Oh, dear, is it time to vote already?  I've hardly looked at the position, but I feel obliged to express an opinion anyway.  Let me present my ballot (with no deep thought or research) just as an experiment to see if the vote comes out in identical order to my suggestions, purely on the strength of my reputation.  :P

1. 3b hb7s cc7w dd8s dd7w
This move was my first inclination, due to the move's extreme flexibility, and I still like it.  I love having my elephant in the center where it can do anything: it can attack, it can punish an advancing horse, and it can fall back to threaten a blockade if chessandgo digs around with his elephant on the seventh rank.  His most forcing move is to put his elephant on e7, pushing our camel to e6.  We can get our elephant back to e5, camel to f6, rabbit to g7, which protects against everything including a rabbit pull.  It's not an exciting position, but it is very solid, and note that our elephant on e5, cutting off his elephant on e7 from the center, gives our camel the ability to advance against the g3 horse.  Thus even though we might be forced to defend, we wouldn't be entirely passive.

2. 3b hb7s ed4s ra7e rh7w
I quite like this move, too.  Tucking in the rabbits like that has an astonishing effect on slowing down the lone elephant's threats to dive behind a trap.  Also the rabbit steps are prophylactic against a horse advance.  Meanwhile we threaten chessandgo's exposed camel/rabbit combo in the center.  I rank it second only due to personal preference to avoid sharp lines.  I hate to race when I am not sure I will win the race, and moving our elephant out of the center commits us to racing if that's what chessandgo decides to do. Objectively, I have to admit that I expect we would be fine in the race, but why take a chance when we can be safer and outplay our opponent positionally?

3. 3b hb7s ed4s ed3e Md2n
This move may be objectively the strongest.  Against RonWeasley I would play it in preference to my top two suggestions.  The reason we can afford to drag something is that chessandgo has already wasted two steps in the lone-elephant race: he switched files with his elephant and he advanced his dog to e2.  Furthermore, we are being efficient by ending our move next to two of his pieces, while he has to burn a step just to get next to any of ours.  Despite moving second, we are already at least equal in the dual-lone-elephant pull-something contest, so we can say we have won the opening.

On the other hand, when has chessandgo ever played a dual-lone-elephant opening?  You can bet money he is itching to launch an elephant-horse attack against c6.  Our elephant has moved two steps further from c6, making it that much harder for us to punish him when he does launch the attack.  I'm making a psychological calculation here: we don't have to induce chessandgo to expose a horse.  He is going to do so anyway, so I want to be in the best possible position to punish him when he does.

4. 3b hb7s ed4n dd8s ce8w
This move is not flexible enough to suit me.  On the one hand, nothing of ours is in danger, and it isn't easy for chessandgo to strengthen his position, but on the other hand, it is even harder for us to strengthen ours.  The dog on d7 not only blocks chessandgo's elephant from driving behind our traps, it also blocks our camel from switching wings.

5. 3b hb7s ed4s dd8s ce8w
Like 99of9, I don't like our position after he flips our dog.  We can flip his camel in return, but then he could push our dog to e5 and tuck his camel away on c3, and we have to protect our dog rather than pulling his central rabbit.  Other options for us are similarly slightly unsatisfactory.  This is the opposite of move #3 on my ballot: We are losing the dual-lone-elephant pull-something contest.  The difference is that presenting our dog on d7 for him to flip loses us several tempi.

6. 3b hb7s dd8s hg6s hg5s
This can't be correct unless the elephant-horse attack is sound in general.  If the elephant-horse attack were generally sound, then the opening would be all about who could get in the first shot.  This would be a great way for us to be the attacker rather than defender.  If you simply must play around the opponent's traps rather than around your own, then by all means take the fight to the other side.   However, even if some elephant-horse attacks are sound, I don't believe this one is.  I think chessandgo would get the advantage simply by bringing back his elephant to f4, taking our horse hostage.

7. 3b hb7s me7s dd8s dd7e
If we do this, chessandgo will drop whatever else he was planning, and push our camel to e4.  I don't see how we could emerge from that without giving up a camel hostage.

8. 3b dd8s rc8e me7s df7w
This move exposes our camel too.  I rank it a teeny bit lower than #7 because it centralizes a rabbit and leaves c6 more open to a horse advance, particularly if our camel gets stuck on the other wing.  A horse on b6 is nice for us positionally, even if it isn't absolutely tactically necessary at the moment.

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by jdb on May 2nd, 2007, 3:44pm
Nice summary Fritz. I'll just add my own thoughts.

Move 1)
It is a perfectly sound and safe move, but it doesn't threaten anything. The rabbit on d1 is safe and the camel on d2 is also safe. Silver's position is solid, but with this move *Gold* gets to decide what path the game is going to take.

Move 2)
Also sound, but this move has the advantage of being a little more forcing than move 1. Silver's elephant is touching gold's camel which limits gold's options.

Move 3) Again sound, and it is the most forcing of the three moves. Silver has threats against the dog and camel, and there is also the rabbit on d1 too.

I think I just ranked the first three moves in the opposite order as Fritz!  :o

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by NIC1138 on May 3rd, 2007, 12:00am
Allright! Last-hour candidate! (the rc8e one lost the primaries)

3b me7w ce8s df7s hb7s

It's a defensive one. The phant keeps centralized and the camel too. Plus it has a hb7s as a bonus.

If he flips our camel, no damage done. It's very easy to take it back to our lines, in a good position, because of the elephant in d4 and the dog in f6.

If he goes for a c6 E-H, the camel is one step nearer.

The biggest advantage is that the cat is heading to where we want it. Unless you think it's too soon for that, and its place is still way back. I like putting them there early, because I usually can't do it in late game... (That is, when I last until late game! :)  )

I find it much better then pulling our rabbits to the middle... It's much more solid. I don't want this phant messing around in our base! And one reason for my insistence is that I love that T blocking formation!... ;D

There is another similar possibility with a dog in place of the camel, but it looks bad to me.

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by RonWeasley on May 3rd, 2007, 7:45am
Since we've found good moves that don't leave our camel next to his E, I don't think I would prefer  3b me7w ce8s df7s hb7s.  After our m gets flipped we would have to commit it to a side and that's one of C&G's strategic objectives.

Like Fritz, I like the no-targets position of 3b hb7s cc7w dd8s dd7w.  While we don't gain tempo, we get a position where gold can't gain tempo on us.  And since both sides have their pieces defensively developed, the tempo battle becomes more about maintaining mobility of the major pieces.

I looked more at the tempo-gaining 3b hb7s ed4s ed3e Md2n.  We would actually be trading two lone-elephant attack steps for two steps developing minor pieces in our back lines.  If gold tries a race involving pushing camels back to traps followed by horses, we would have to use those two steps to develop our position then.  So the tempo gain may not really be there.

Something to think about for the future is whether we favor trades or not.  I think The Mob may have an advantage on a depleted board containing complicated goal and capture races.

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by NIC1138 on May 3rd, 2007, 8:34am

on 05/03/07 at 07:45:34, RonWeasley wrote:
Since we've found good moves that don't leave our camel next to his E, I don't think I would prefer  3b me7w ce8s df7s hb7s.  After our m gets flipped we would have to commit it to a side and that's one of C&G's strategic objectives.
What do you mean?? If he flips the camel with 4w Ed6e md7s md6s Ee6w, we can safely return it to e7 with 4b md5e me5n ce7e me6n. Why is the camel "commited"  to something, if it's in the place it is already??

You can argue that you don't like taking the dog and cat forward, or that the cats are in the path of the camel, perhaps, but why is the camel in a bad position after this 4b?

There are no stones touching his elephant, as it would happen with the move you mentioned. Only instead of hiding the western cat under our horse, we are advancing the dog and cat of the east. To me, the question in not about the camel, who keeps pretty much centralized, but wether it's safe to put those two stones forward!...


Title: Re: Move 3
Post by RonWeasley on May 3rd, 2007, 10:54am
Easy, NIC.  Yes, thanx for the insight.  The 4b you supply puts us back in a good position with gained tempo if we don't mind the dog on f6.

A worse 4w for us after 3b me7w ce8s df7s hb7s looks like a flip of our camel to c6.  That's not really bad but we either have to restrict our elephant mobility to guard against the flip to d5, or use steps to get the m able to move east if needed.  Somebody check this, but the dog on f6 looks like a target without a piece on e7 to prevent an eventual Ef6n df6w.  The H on g3 looks close too.  We can defend this but at the cost of tempo.

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by woh on May 3rd, 2007, 11:04am

on 05/02/07 at 14:05:26, Fritzlein wrote:
3. 3b hb7s ed4s ed3e Md2n

On the other hand, when has chessandgo ever played a dual-lone-elephant opening?  ...  I'm making a psychological calculation here: we don't have to induce chessandgo to expose a horse.  He is going to do so anyway, so I want to be in the best possible position to
punish him when he does.

At first I liked this move. But I agree with Fritzlein's remarks. We might just be helping chessandgo by moving our elephant 2 steps away from the c6 trap.


on 05/02/07 at 14:05:26, Fritzlein wrote:
7. 3b hb7s me7s dd8s dd7e
If we do this, chessandgo will drop whatever else he was planning, and push our camel to e4.

May be we can get our camel to the front without the threat of getting it hostaged with 3b hb7s me7s ce8s me6e. Or would that move leave our camel already too much decentralized?

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by NIC1138 on May 3rd, 2007, 12:31pm

on 05/03/07 at 10:54:34, RonWeasley wrote:
Easy, NIC.
Woof! Woof!! Grrrrr...
>:(  ::)

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by RonWeasley on May 3rd, 2007, 1:47pm
I'm going to start the voting tomorrow and close Monday morning.  There aren't so many suggested moves that we can't list them all.  I have no problem with multiple moves suggested by a single mobster.  In the future there might be a reason not to list them all, maybe there could be frivolous moves sent in by Peeves, but I don't expect a problem with that.

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by JacquesB on May 3rd, 2007, 2:54pm
I understand the reasons behind 3b hb7s ed4s ra7e rh7w and 3b hb7s ed4s ed3e Md2n better, but have a question.

Even if Ned's proposal 3b hb7s ed4s ed3e Md2n makes a lot of sense, couldn't that be what chessandgo is expecting?

Could he be expecting this move for answering something like: 4w Cc2e Db1n Db2e Md3w (with better style surely)? Something to get ready for an elephant-camel attack. I don't see what an elephant-horse attack could win against another horse, but the camel could push the defending horse and require the elephant for defense.

Does that make sense?

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by The_Jeh on May 3rd, 2007, 4:02pm

on 05/03/07 at 13:47:00, RonWeasley wrote:
I'm going to start the voting tomorrow and close Monday morning.


That is necessary now, but I hope in the future we can make a few moves using little or no reserve time.  We don't want to fight to move 75 only to miss a forced win because we don't have enough time to analyze.

Also, perhaps there is a psychological factor to consider, but I think we should tend towards playing the board, not the man.

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by 99of9 on May 4th, 2007, 6:24am

on 05/02/07 at 14:05:26, Fritzlein wrote:
2. 3b hb7s ed4s ra7e rh7w
I quite like this move, too.  {...}  I rank it second only due to personal preference to avoid sharp lines.  I hate to race when I am not sure I will win the race, and moving our elephant out of the center commits us to racing if that's what chessandgo decides to do.


Here's one line that might follow if he decided to race without defending his camel:

3b hb7s ed4s ra7e rh7w
4w Ed6n me7s Ed7e Hb3n
4b ed3e Md2n Md3n ee3w
5w me6s Ee7s Hb4e Md4e
5b ed3n ed4n me5e mf5n

That would leave us roughly even by my reckoning (since he has the next turn and can also retreat his forces if he wants).

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by 99of9 on May 4th, 2007, 7:41am

on 05/02/07 at 14:05:26, Fritzlein wrote:
6. 3b hb7s dd8s hg6s hg5s
This can't be correct unless the elephant-horse attack is sound in general.  If the elephant-horse attack were generally sound, then the opening would be all about who could get in the first shot.  This would be a great way for us to be the attacker rather than defender.  If you simply must play around the opponent's traps rather than around your own, then by all means take the fight to the other side.   However, even if some elephant-horse attacks are sound, I don't believe this one is.  I think chessandgo would get the advantage simply by bringing back his elephant to f4, taking our horse hostage.

I would reply:
4b ed4s ed3e Md2n me7s

I don't see any clear way he can take our horse hostage with his camel (which is the main risk to EH in my view).  We could then send our dog up behind our horse, and play like chessandgo!  The main upside is targetting the h2 rabbit.

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by Fritzlein on May 5th, 2007, 4:34pm
Well, this may be too late with voting already underway.  Do we really need 2.5 days of voting?  My inclination would be to cut the voting down to only 1.5 days, and if we have another spare day, use it for extra discussion instead.

In any event, Katie and I have moved out of our apartment and into our house.  It suddenly occurs to me that there is no deadline on unpacking.  I can live nicely in the middle of piles of boxes, thank you, as long as the computer is set up so I can get my daily Arimaa fix.


on 05/03/07 at 00:00:16, NIC1138 wrote:
Allright! Last-hour candidate! (the rc8e one lost the primaries)

3b me7w ce8s df7s hb7s

This move keeps things safe for the immediate future, but it seems to leave chessandgo with a path to improve his position at no risk.  A move like 4w Ed6e md7s Db1n Cf2e develops gold's position without committing to anything yet.  Although it took only two steps for him to threaten our camel, we would need more than two steps on defense, and would have trouble keeping our camel in position to scare off gold horses from both wings.  Indeed, if our camel became restricted to the west, Gold is immediately threatening an EH attack on f6.

Yes, we could taunt chessandgo a bit by moving our camel next to his elephant in a way that is safe for us, but unless it provoked him into a poor move, it would just let him quietly gain tempo and/or position.


on 05/04/07 at 07:41:32, 99of9 wrote:
I would reply:
4b ed4s ed3e Md2n me7s

I don't see any clear way he can take our horse hostage with his camel (which is the main risk to EH in my view).  We could then send our dog up behind our horse, and play like chessandgo!  The main upside is targetting the h2 rabbit.

But don't forget the other threat to the exposed horse, namely a frame.  After your move, 5w Cc2n Md3s Ef4w hg4w threatens a horse frame before our dog is ready to come to our horse's rescue.  We would have to bring up our camel to unfreeze our horse, and leave our camel on an awkward square in the process.  I think chessandgo could get plenty of play before we got our forces organized.

In general, I think the soundness of an EH attack depends not merely on the position of the enemy camel, but also on the position of the friendly camel and supporting dog.  If we want to launch an EH attack, then let's get our dog in the right spot first, so our camel doesn't have to end up in the wrong spot.

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by RonWeasley on May 7th, 2007, 7:13am
12 of 15 voted.  Tucked rabbits wins!  This was unexpected to me from the discussion as defensive west and M half pull seemed to have the most vocal backers.  But this is mob rule!

For the next moves I am going to try to lay out a schedule early for discussion and voting so that we make our move in less than 7 days.  It seems like mobsters need a 2 day window to vote, based on the last two moves.  We will continually refine this.

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by Fritzlein on May 7th, 2007, 10:54am
Very interesting.  Like Ron, I'm surprised the M pull didn't win the vote.  I thought folks would go for the most tangible objective rather than dinking around like I wanted to with my first choice.

Maybe folks picked 99of9's move just because they were tired of me trying to dominate the conversation.  :P  Or maybe it was a case of a compromise candidate coming out ahead of two extremes.

I think we may have already equalized, despite having the Silver pieces.  Will chessandgo take the offered lone-elephant race, or will he launch a premature elephant-horse attack?  Either way, I think we are fine.

For the record:

   .    .    .    .    .    .    .  .  1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9.
1. hb7s ed4s ra7e rh7w (tucked rabbits)  -  7  7 10 10  9 10 11 11
2. hb7s cc7w dd8s dd7w (west defensive)  5  -  8 10 10  9  9 11 12
3. hb7s ed4s ed3e Md2n (M half pull)  .  5  3  -  9  9  9  9 11 11
4. hb7s ed4n dd8s ce8w (E cap)    .   .  2  2  3  -  8  8  9 11 11
5. hb7s ed4s dd8s ce8w (e d up)   .   .  2  2  3  3  -  6  6 11 11
6. hb7s dd8s hg6s hg5s (immediate eh)    3  3  3  4  5  -  6 10 10
7. hb7s me7w ce8s df7s (catdog up)    .  2  3  3  3  4  3  -  7  9
8. hb7s me7s dd8s dd7e (m up)    .    .  1  1  1  0  0  0  3  -  7
9. dd8s rc8e me7s df7w (dogs behind m)   1  0  1  0  0  0  0  1  -


This was my ballot, except I reversed 1 & 2 and 6 & 7.  I wonder whether, a year from now, I will be more sold on the E-H attack.

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by aaaa on May 7th, 2007, 12:13pm

on 05/07/07 at 10:54:19, Fritzlein wrote:
I think we may have already equalized, despite having the Silver pieces.

Strange hearing you say that considering this (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/forum/cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=talk;action=display;num=1133407311;start=0#0). My own personal research also supports the extremely tentative hypothesis that if anyone is supposed to have an advantage, Silver currently has the better claim.

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by Janzert on May 7th, 2007, 4:09pm
That's because Fritzlein is a firm believer in his own intuition rather than the contrary statistical evidence that he himself has presented. ;)

Janzert

Title: Re: Move 3
Post by Fritzlein on May 7th, 2007, 4:11pm
Heheh.  You have me pegged, Janzert.  In the past I leaned towards explaining the data as a pure statistical fluke.  Today my favorite theory is that we are so far from a correct understanding of Arimaa theory that Gold typically uses the advantage of the first move to hurt himself.  :O



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